Daz 3D Introduces dForce Physics Engine

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  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,159
    edited December 2017

    I've run into something strange.  I'm using a dforce outfit for some promos.  I am not running the sim, the pose I am using doesn't need me to, the outfit conforms good enough without it.  However, every time I try and render the scene, it crashes my video card.  I have no problems with other Dforce items, and I'm not actually using the simulation.  Any ideas?  If I take the outfit off, the rest of the scene renders fine.  If I try and render it with just the outfit it still crashes.

    You running out of VRAM?

    - Greg

    ETA: Also, sometimes VRAM is not released properly (leak). If you're doing a bunch of promos back to back, it may be worth closing/restarting DS, or even rebooting your box.

    Post edited by algovincian on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,457

    I've run into something strange.  I'm using a dforce outfit for some promos.  I am not running the sim, the pose I am using doesn't need me to, the outfit conforms good enough without it.  However, every time I try and render the scene, it crashes my video card.  I have no problems with other Dforce items, and I'm not actually using the simulation.  Any ideas?  If I take the outfit off, the rest of the scene renders fine.  If I try and render it with just the outfit it still crashes.

    You running out of VRAM?

    - Greg

    ETA: Also, sometimes VRAM is not released properly (leak). If you're doing a bunch of promos back to back, it may be worth closing/restarting DS, or even rebooting your box.

    I shouldn't be, I don't usually have any issues with Dforce items, for the most part, they work fine.  I am, however, definitely doing a lot of promo renders back to back, so I will make it a point to shut things down every now and again.  I also just realized that each piece of the outfit the dress, the fur on the bottom the fur on the chest, the hat and the fur on those are all separate dforce items.  I wonder if in combination its just too much.  Although, I was not running the sim at all, I didn't need it for the pose I was using.  I ended up trying to render just the dress with nothing in the scene and no pose just loaded it and hit render and it still crashed.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,159

    I've run into something strange.  I'm using a dforce outfit for some promos.  I am not running the sim, the pose I am using doesn't need me to, the outfit conforms good enough without it.  However, every time I try and render the scene, it crashes my video card.  I have no problems with other Dforce items, and I'm not actually using the simulation.  Any ideas?  If I take the outfit off, the rest of the scene renders fine.  If I try and render it with just the outfit it still crashes.

    You running out of VRAM?

    - Greg

    ETA: Also, sometimes VRAM is not released properly (leak). If you're doing a bunch of promos back to back, it may be worth closing/restarting DS, or even rebooting your box.

    I shouldn't be, I don't usually have any issues with Dforce items, for the most part, they work fine.  I am, however, definitely doing a lot of promo renders back to back, so I will make it a point to shut things down every now and again.  I also just realized that each piece of the outfit the dress, the fur on the bottom the fur on the chest, the hat and the fur on those are all separate dforce items.  I wonder if in combination its just too much.  Although, I was not running the sim at all, I didn't need it for the pose I was using.  I ended up trying to render just the dress with nothing in the scene and no pose just loaded it and hit render and it still crashed.

    Got a log dump?

    - Greg

  • The first question that comes to mind is whether this is actually connected to dForce at all, or if it's something else about the item. Have you tried using the menu on the Simulation Settings tab to remove the dForce modifier? If it renders after that, it's a dForce problem; if not, it's something else.

  • I've been experimenting with "soft body" effects with dForce. Most have been pretty disastrous but I've gotten a few decent results. 

    You can get some OK results with the figure's dynamic strength turned all the way to Zero for every part/surface zone but the Torso. Here I have the torso dynamic strength set to around 21% with the rest of the body's dynamic strength turned to zero:

      

    Disaster results with the more extreme poses though. Still, it's been fun experimenting. :)

    You inspired me to do a quick test, Diva. I used a dForce Modifier Weight Node and added an Influence Weights map:

    Other than that, I set the Density to 0 leaving everything else at default. The results aren't perfect, but there was a little bit of bulge in addition to the flattening. Images on the left are before the sim, on the right after:

    - Greg

    I am using the exact same parameters but my G3F explodes around the box... Could you give us a little more details ? Thanks.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,159

    I've been experimenting with "soft body" effects with dForce. Most have been pretty disastrous but I've gotten a few decent results. 

    You can get some OK results with the figure's dynamic strength turned all the way to Zero for every part/surface zone but the Torso. Here I have the torso dynamic strength set to around 21% with the rest of the body's dynamic strength turned to zero:

      

    Disaster results with the more extreme poses though. Still, it's been fun experimenting. :)

    You inspired me to do a quick test, Diva. I used a dForce Modifier Weight Node and added an Influence Weights map:

    Other than that, I set the Density to 0 leaving everything else at default. The results aren't perfect, but there was a little bit of bulge in addition to the flattening. Images on the left are before the sim, on the right after:

    - Greg

    I am using the exact same parameters but my G3F explodes around the box... Could you give us a little more details ? Thanks.

    Did you do an animated drape and have the figure sit down onto the cube, or move the cube to intersect the figure? (as opposed to starting the drape with the figure and cube intersecting)

    Did you setup an Influence Weights map?

    - Greg

  • I think I have achieved soft body (successful 75% of the time)! lol laugh

     

    This looks nice, but it seems the "smooth modifier" achieves the same result or may be there is something I miss about the method and/or motivation. Please let me know what it adds to it. Thanks

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,457

    I've run into something strange.  I'm using a dforce outfit for some promos.  I am not running the sim, the pose I am using doesn't need me to, the outfit conforms good enough without it.  However, every time I try and render the scene, it crashes my video card.  I have no problems with other Dforce items, and I'm not actually using the simulation.  Any ideas?  If I take the outfit off, the rest of the scene renders fine.  If I try and render it with just the outfit it still crashes.

    You running out of VRAM?

    - Greg

    ETA: Also, sometimes VRAM is not released properly (leak). If you're doing a bunch of promos back to back, it may be worth closing/restarting DS, or even rebooting your box.

    I shouldn't be, I don't usually have any issues with Dforce items, for the most part, they work fine.  I am, however, definitely doing a lot of promo renders back to back, so I will make it a point to shut things down every now and again.  I also just realized that each piece of the outfit the dress, the fur on the bottom the fur on the chest, the hat and the fur on those are all separate dforce items.  I wonder if in combination its just too much.  Although, I was not running the sim at all, I didn't need it for the pose I was using.  I ended up trying to render just the dress with nothing in the scene and no pose just loaded it and hit render and it still crashed.

    Got a log dump?

    - Greg

    not from Daz, but  my pc was giving me a display driver error saying that my display driver  crashed but has recovered

    The first question that comes to mind is whether this is actually connected to dForce at all, or if it's something else about the item. Have you tried using the menu on the Simulation Settings tab to remove the dForce modifier? If it renders after that, it's a dForce problem; if not, it's something else.

    I have not  I will give that a try when I get a chance thank you!  I am really leaning toward the issue being on my side because no one else working on the promos was having an issue with it that I know of.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,159
    edited December 2017

    not from Daz, but  my pc was giving me a display driver error saying that my display driver  crashed but has recovered

    I've wasted 4 hours today trying to render a scene in 3DL with the Santa Baby hat in it. This box is running 4.10.0.121 beta. It keeps crashing when it hits the fur (about 35% in). Display driver not responding (fault module nvoglv64.dll). If I had to bet, I'd say it has something to do with the transparency on the fur.

    Rendering direct to file, so I'm not sure why a 3DL render is throwing an openGL error - maybe it's related to your issue. Unfortunately, I have no more time to waste on it.

    - Greg

    ETA: My repeated crash had nothing to do with dForce.

    Post edited by algovincian on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,862
    edited December 2017

    I think I have achieved soft body (successful 75% of the time)! lol laugh

     

    This looks nice, but it seems the "smooth modifier" achieves the same result or may be there is something I miss about the method and/or motivation. Please let me know what it adds to it. Thanks

    You can achieve the same result with "smooth modifier"? lol Then, by all means, post renders of it... 

     

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • I've been experimenting with "soft body" effects with dForce. Most have been pretty disastrous but I've gotten a few decent results. 

    You can get some OK results with the figure's dynamic strength turned all the way to Zero for every part/surface zone but the Torso. Here I have the torso dynamic strength set to around 21% with the rest of the body's dynamic strength turned to zero:

      

    Disaster results with the more extreme poses though. Still, it's been fun experimenting. :)

    You inspired me to do a quick test, Diva. I used a dForce Modifier Weight Node and added an Influence Weights map:

    Other than that, I set the Density to 0 leaving everything else at default. The results aren't perfect, but there was a little bit of bulge in addition to the flattening. Images on the left are before the sim, on the right after:

    - Greg

    I am using the exact same parameters but my G3F explodes around the box... Could you give us a little more details ? Thanks.

    Did you do an animated drape and have the figure sit down onto the cube, or move the cube to intersect the figure? (as opposed to starting the drape with the figure and cube intersecting)

    Did you setup an Influence Weights map?

    - Greg

    Greg, got it. I was doing it wrong then. Will try it as you explained. Thanks.

  • I think I have achieved soft body (successful 75% of the time)! lol laugh

     

    This looks nice, but it seems the "smooth modifier" achieves the same result or may be there is something I miss about the method and/or motivation. Please let me know what it adds to it. Thanks

    You can achieve the same result with "smooth modifier"? lol Then, by all means, post renders of it... 

     

    Ok I'll try this week end and uoload what I got even though I admit you have already raised the standards up there ! :)

  • So here's what I got bearing in mind you could stop the process at applying smooth modifier and tweaking it.
    The Push Modifier/Weight Map feature is added to produce extra bulge in the area you want and works well for skin/cloth interaction.
    The convenient thing about the Push Modifier is that once the weight map is painted, you see on the viewport in real time the changes while the slider is being moved.
    This was litterally done in 5-10 minutes so we all can imagine what can be achieved by better painters than myself!

    01 No Effect
    02 Smooth Modifier to G3F iteration6 collision5
    03 Push Modifier Weight Map (roughly painted)
    04 Push Modifier slider at 6
    05 Push Modifier slider at 12

     

     

    01 No Effect.png
    800 x 800 - 185K
    02 Smooth Modifier to G3F iteration6 collision5.png
    800 x 800 - 185K
    03 Push Modifier Weight Map.png
    1465 x 1001 - 993K
    04 Push Modifier 6 .png
    800 x 800 - 167K
    05 Push Modifier 12.png
    800 x 800 - 172K
  • I think I have achieved soft body (successful 75% of the time)! lol laugh

     

    This looks nice, but it seems the "smooth modifier" achieves the same result or may be there is something I miss about the method and/or motivation. Please let me know what it adds to it. Thanks

    You can achieve the same result with "smooth modifier"? lol Then, by all means, post renders of it... 

     

    Test renders uploaded.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,457

    Okay I tried it again after a fresh reload, I shut down the pc, restarted and did the dforce outfit as the first render.  Rendered to 99 % in one hour and 9 minutes then crashed.  However, this time, it was Daz that crashed and not my video driver.  Here is a small snippet of the log report when it crashed,  There are probably another 15 or 20 lines that say recieved upate to.  And that's all there is.

    017-12-23 12:46:04.886 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.4   IRAY   rend info : CPU: Allocated 3.49711 MiB for frame buffer
    2017-12-23 12:46:04.886 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.6   IRAY   rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 745): Allocated 9.7468 MiB for frame buffer
    2017-12-23 12:46:04.980 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00091 iterations after 7.637s.
    2017-12-23 12:46:05.214 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00094 iterations after 7.882s.
    2017-12-23 12:46:05.401 Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER):   1.0   IRAY   rend info : Received update to 00097 iterations after 8.060s.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,862
    edited December 2017

    So here's what I got bearing in mind you could stop the process at applying smooth modifier and tweaking it.
    The Push Modifier/Weight Map feature is added to produce extra bulge in the area you want and works well for skin/cloth interaction.
    The convenient thing about the Push Modifier is that once the weight map is painted, you see on the viewport in real time the changes while the slider is being moved.
    This was litterally done in 5-10 minutes so we all can imagine what can be achieved by better painters than myself!

    01 No Effect
    02 Smooth Modifier to G3F iteration6 collision5
    03 Push Modifier Weight Map (roughly painted)
    04 Push Modifier slider at 6
    05 Push Modifier slider at 12

     

     

     

    Looks cool. I'm seeing some unnatural looking "floating" bits that would be either squished or more naturally rounded, imo. 

    Personally, I think that dForce + weight node looks more natural. Just my opinion. :) The push modifier (not a smoothing modifier?) looks not too bad, though! :)

    31.JPG
    470 x 421 - 16K
    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • I agree dforce + weight node gets you to a more natural result with less tweaking. The other methods would also be difficult to manage for animations.
    Let's say those who have not made the 4.10 jump yet (I know there's a bunch) can still get to the party! :)

  • SorelSorel Posts: 1,291
    I just hope actual soft body physics becomes a thing with dforce
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,064
    Sorel said:
    I just hope actual soft body physics becomes a thing with dforce

    Well Daz said that cloth was the first implementation of dForce and that other types of dynamics would follow, so I think there is every hope of this happening (no timescales though!).

  • I'm confused by all the information -- is dForce only applicable to NEW cloths, or can it be applied to the OLD clothes we've already purchased?

    If applicable for the old clothes -- does the Original Content author need to be the one to update it, or can we apply an update to the clothing ourselves?

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 7,922
    Firebrand said:

    I'm confused by all the information -- is dForce only applicable to NEW cloths, or can it be applied to the OLD clothes we've already purchased?

    If applicable for the old clothes -- does the Original Content author need to be the one to update it, or can we apply an update to the clothing ourselves?

    You can apply dForce to existing clothes yourself.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,444
    Firebrand said:

    I'm confused by all the information -- is dForce only applicable to NEW cloths, or can it be applied to the OLD clothes we've already purchased?

    If applicable for the old clothes -- does the Original Content author need to be the one to update it, or can we apply an update to the clothing ourselves?

    There is a learning curve to using dForce. It's only been out a few months, and is still being updated. The next beta release of Daz Studio will have dForce version 1.1, if not later. (From the beta Change Log: Update to dForce 1.1.0.5; DAZ Studio : Incremented build number to 4.11.0.57) That doesn't mean you should sit on the sidelines, just be aware some things that work today may change a bit in the future.

    As a great tutorial on how this magic works, check out RGcincy's thread, How to Use dForce: Creating a Blanket, Draping Clothes on Furniture, and Much More, and download the PDF in the first post. He updates it, so you won't miss anything. If you practice along with his information, you should get a handle on using dForce. There will be triumphs and dismal failures when learning to apply dForce to older content. It can be done, and great results are possible. but not everything will play nice. Just jump in and play. There is no better teacher than experience. Just save frequently, and have fun with it. Get an impressive fail, explosive or otherwise, share it in the Art Studio thread, Let's see your dForce renders/experiments/interesting results!.

  • y3kmany3kman Posts: 625

    Does the dForce in the beta build still require a software restart if you encounter a fatal sim error? I really don't like using beta builds but this has been a problem for me since DAZ introduced this engine.

  • MidyinMidyin Posts: 198

    I had no idea this tool was even in here. I'm excited to try it. :D

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,444
    edited January 2018
    y3kman said:

    Does the dForce in the beta build still require a software restart if you encounter a fatal sim error? I really don't like using beta builds but this has been a problem for me since DAZ introduced this engine.

    At the moment, the beta is the same version as the release, so if you have the latest release installed and it's working for you, the beta should work equally well.

    Midyin said:

    I had no idea this tool was even in here. I'm excited to try it. :D


    It's still failry new. I think it was released in October? Anyway, only a few months old.

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,085

    i can't run dforce.
    my nvidia gforce gt540m doesn't seem to agree, no openCL. i looked online at some packs that should allow/enable/install (?) openCL (drivers??) but nothing works - or rather, one of those packs demands i uninstall whatever original drivers i have before installing something new. which i won't do because i have absolutely no clue what i'm doing, and i'm not gonna jeopardize a perfectly working gcard/gpu just for gforce.. and be stuck with nothing i.e. a laptop that doesn't work at all any more.

    my question: do dforce items/outfits sold here work without dforce (i read in a thread one product "had also normal morphs") - do they ALL work without dforce, or only some - is that specified exactly in the description?
    example: dForce Grunge Outfit for Genesis 8 Male - i understand the outfit has morphs and should be working without dforce too (maybe it just won't look that good/realistic), but am i right?

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,444

    i can't run dforce.
    my nvidia gforce gt540m doesn't seem to agree, no openCL. i looked online at some packs that should allow/enable/install (?) openCL (drivers??) but nothing works - or rather, one of those packs demands i uninstall whatever original drivers i have before installing something new. which i won't do because i have absolutely no clue what i'm doing, and i'm not gonna jeopardize a perfectly working gcard/gpu just for gforce.. and be stuck with nothing i.e. a laptop that doesn't work at all any more.

    my question: do dforce items/outfits sold here work without dforce (i read in a thread one product "had also normal morphs") - do they ALL work without dforce, or only some - is that specified exactly in the description?
    example: dForce Grunge Outfit for Genesis 8 Male - i understand the outfit has morphs and should be working without dforce too (maybe it just won't look that good/realistic), but am i right?

    It is my understanding Daz requires dForce compliant clothing also be conforming. So if a dress is for G3F female, it needs to work with any G3F with or without using dForce, or Daz won't sell it. As for clothing sold at other stores, you'll need to be careful and verify it's conforming before you buy.

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,085
    L'Adair said:

    i can't run dforce.
    my nvidia gforce gt540m doesn't seem to agree, no openCL. i looked online at some packs that should allow/enable/install (?) openCL (drivers??) but nothing works - or rather, one of those packs demands i uninstall whatever original drivers i have before installing something new. which i won't do because i have absolutely no clue what i'm doing, and i'm not gonna jeopardize a perfectly working gcard/gpu just for gforce.. and be stuck with nothing i.e. a laptop that doesn't work at all any more.

    my question: do dforce items/outfits sold here work without dforce (i read in a thread one product "had also normal morphs") - do they ALL work without dforce, or only some - is that specified exactly in the description?
    example: dForce Grunge Outfit for Genesis 8 Male - i understand the outfit has morphs and should be working without dforce too (maybe it just won't look that good/realistic), but am i right?

    It is my understanding Daz requires dForce compliant clothing also be conforming. So if a dress is for G3F female, it needs to work with any G3F with or without using dForce, or Daz won't sell it. As for clothing sold at other stores, you'll need to be careful and verify it's conforming before you buy.

    "Daz requires dForce compliant clothing also be conforming" - exactly the answer i was looking for! thanks a lot, L'Adair ^^

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,444

    You're welcome, @manekiNeko.

  • Aave NainenAave Nainen Posts: 1,105
    L'Adair said:

    i can't run dforce.
    my nvidia gforce gt540m doesn't seem to agree, no openCL. i looked online at some packs that should allow/enable/install (?) openCL (drivers??) but nothing works - or rather, one of those packs demands i uninstall whatever original drivers i have before installing something new. which i won't do because i have absolutely no clue what i'm doing, and i'm not gonna jeopardize a perfectly working gcard/gpu just for gforce.. and be stuck with nothing i.e. a laptop that doesn't work at all any more.

    my question: do dforce items/outfits sold here work without dforce (i read in a thread one product "had also normal morphs") - do they ALL work without dforce, or only some - is that specified exactly in the description?
    example: dForce Grunge Outfit for Genesis 8 Male - i understand the outfit has morphs and should be working without dforce too (maybe it just won't look that good/realistic), but am i right?

    It is my understanding Daz requires dForce compliant clothing also be conforming. So if a dress is for G3F female, it needs to work with any G3F with or without using dForce, or Daz won't sell it. As for clothing sold at other stores, you'll need to be careful and verify it's conforming before you buy.

    "Daz requires dForce compliant clothing also be conforming" - exactly the answer i was looking for! thanks a lot, L'Adair ^^

    Depends on the garment, not all things work well as conforming garments.  Almost all will have basic rigging and weight maps but that doesn't mean they will "work" well as conforming.  When I'm writing my product descriptions I will generally state if a dForce garment also works well as conforming or not.  

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