Daz 3D Introduces dForce Physics Engine

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  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,954
    edited December 2017

    I've been experimenting with "soft body" effects with dForce. Most have been pretty disastrous but I've gotten a few decent results. 

    You can get some OK results with the figure's dynamic strength turned all the way to Zero for every part/surface zone but the Torso. Here I have the torso dynamic strength set to around 21% with the rest of the body's dynamic strength turned to zero:

      

    Disaster results with the more extreme poses though. Still, it's been fun experimenting. :)

    You inspired me to do a quick test, Diva. I used a dForce Modifier Weight Node and added an Influence Weights map:

    Other than that, I set the Density to 0 leaving everything else at default. The results aren't perfect, but there was a little bit of bulge in addition to the flattening. Images on the left are before the sim, on the right after:

    - Greg

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    Post edited by algovincian on
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,954
    edited December 2017

    BTW, I love the ability to weightmap the dForce influence - such a powerful feature! In case anybody's interested, here's a quick tutorial on using dFroce to address cleavage issues on custom morph fits, etc:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/205426/yoda-says-use-dforce-to-fight-static-cling

    - Greg

    Post edited by algovincian on
  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955

    @algovincian Oh that's cool! I have yet to figure out how to do the "weight map" and "weight modifier" thing. But I definitely need to figure it out as I think that's going to be the key to "soft body" effects. Cool results, Greg! :D

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,954

    @algovincian Oh that's cool! I have yet to figure out how to do the "weight map" and "weight modifier" thing. But I definitely need to figure it out as I think that's going to be the key to "soft body" effects. Cool results, Greg! :D

    Definitely worth learning, Diva. You can use it for so many other things, too. For example, you can create a Push Modifier Weight Node in order to fix poke-through areas without smoothing, etc.

    Pretty sure there's already a lot of info out there about using the weight mapping tools. I'd dig up the references I worked off of, but I'm not home atm and on my phone.

    - Greg

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,346

    This post discusses the basic steps of adding a weight node and painting the influence weight map. This post discusses the sensitivity of the painting.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 12,188
    RGcincy said:

    This post discusses the basic steps of adding a weight node and painting the influence weight map. This post discusses the sensitivity of the painting.

    Thanks

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955

    @algovincian @RGcincy Thanks guys! I know I need to buckle down and learn how to do it, but it feels too much like studying. lol Your tutorials don't look TOO painful though - so I've bookmarked them. Thank you, guys! 

  • @algovincian @RGcincy Thanks guys! I know I need to buckle down and learn how to do it, but it feels too much like studying. lol Your tutorials don't look TOO painful though - so I've bookmarked them. Thank you, guys! 

    It sounds really scary but once you power through to finish your first weight map I think it gets intuitive. Stuff is just in weird places at first.

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955
    edited December 2017

    @algovincian @RGcincy Thanks guys! I know I need to buckle down and learn how to do it, but it feels too much like studying. lol Your tutorials don't look TOO painful though - so I've bookmarked them. Thank you, guys! 

    It sounds really scary but once you power through to finish your first weight map I think it gets intuitive. Stuff is just in weird places at first.

    I tried it and I get an error message about OpenCL device? What did I do wrong?

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    Post edited by Divamakeup on
  • @algovincian @RGcincy Thanks guys! I know I need to buckle down and learn how to do it, but it feels too much like studying. lol Your tutorials don't look TOO painful though - so I've bookmarked them. Thank you, guys! 

    It sounds really scary but once you power through to finish your first weight map I think it gets intuitive. Stuff is just in weird places at first.

    I tried it and I get an error message about OpenCL device? What did I do wrong?

    Might have to restart DAZ. Sometimes it freaks out for no reason.

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955

    @algovincian @RGcincy Thanks guys! I know I need to buckle down and learn how to do it, but it feels too much like studying. lol Your tutorials don't look TOO painful though - so I've bookmarked them. Thank you, guys! 

    It sounds really scary but once you power through to finish your first weight map I think it gets intuitive. Stuff is just in weird places at first.

    I tried it and I get an error message about OpenCL device? What did I do wrong?

    Might have to restart DAZ. Sometimes it freaks out for no reason.

    I just tried it with a regular dForce simulation and get the same error message. I just updated my NVidia driver earlier today, and that's the only thing I changed, I think - do you think that has something to do with it?

  • @algovincian @RGcincy Thanks guys! I know I need to buckle down and learn how to do it, but it feels too much like studying. lol Your tutorials don't look TOO painful though - so I've bookmarked them. Thank you, guys! 

    It sounds really scary but once you power through to finish your first weight map I think it gets intuitive. Stuff is just in weird places at first.

    I tried it and I get an error message about OpenCL device? What did I do wrong?

    Might have to restart DAZ. Sometimes it freaks out for no reason.

    I just tried it with a regular dForce simulation and get the same error message. I just updated my NVidia driver earlier today, and that's the only thing I changed, I think - do you think that has something to do with it?

    Probably, other people seem to have problems with driver updates too.

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,346
    edited December 2017

    Try this:  under Simulation Settings / Avanced, select your NVIDIA card as the prefered OpenCL device - in the OpenCL Device drop-down menu. The driver update might have changed this.

    Post edited by RGcincy on
  • Here's the thread I remembered. I haven't had this trouble but I also don't have W10 nor have updated drivers. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/206951/could-not-find-a-valid-opencl-device-dforce-issue
  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955

    @RGincy @agent unawares Under the settings the NVIDIA card wasn't showing up. The only option for the OpenCL Device was "dForce". 

    I just checked with NVidia and they had another update to the driver so I installed that and it fixed the issue. Yay! :D

    And WOW! I'm liking the weight mapping thing! It works!

    I'm really looking forward to doing more soft body experimenting with the weight nodes and influence weight maps! :D Thank you for the links and the great tutorials! laugh

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955
    edited December 2017

    This influence map/weight map thing is AH-MAY-ZING! :D

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    Post edited by Divamakeup on
  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,346

    You're experiments are paying off!

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955
    RGcincy said:

    You're experiments are paying off!

    hahah Thank you - I think this might be another "game changer". heheh Thanks for the great tutorials!

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955

    I think I have achieved soft body (successful 75% of the time)! lol laugh

     

  • Looks really nice.

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955

    Looks really nice.

    Thank you! :D I'm LOVING this! 

    Anyone know if there is a way to save Weight Node settings (so that I can apply them to other characters)?

  • Looks really nice.

    Thank you! :D I'm LOVING this! 

    Anyone know if there is a way to save Weight Node settings (so that I can apply them to other characters)?

    I think the only way to save weight maps is by saving a new figure or saving the figure as a scene subset that you can then load as a stopgap pre-weight-mapped figure. As far as I know there is no way to save a weight map alone yet (which is a crying shame). This is why you see creators like Aave Nainen giving DForce updates by sharing saved scenes instead of a preset.

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955

    Looks really nice.

    Thank you! :D I'm LOVING this! 

    Anyone know if there is a way to save Weight Node settings (so that I can apply them to other characters)?

    I think the only way to save weight maps is by saving a new figure or saving the figure as a scene subset that you can then load as a stopgap pre-weight-mapped figure. As far as I know there is no way to save a weight map alone yet (which is a crying shame). This is why you see creators like Aave Nainen giving DForce updates by sharing saved scenes instead of a preset.

    The scene subset worked! Thank you, agent unawares! :)

    Yay! Now I have a G8F with weight maping saved so that I can load any character to it! Soft body for ALL the characters!! THIS IS AWESOME! *does happy dance*

    Hopefully they will add weight node saving so that I don't have to go through all that full body weight influence painting for Genesis 3 and Genesis 2 (since I still use them too).

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 12,188

    Well hopefully they will update how their characters work and they'll come with multiple weight maps that adjust in values & volume distributions, eg change the percentage of lean body mass vs fat in the body for the different areas, with 'morph dials' but that's pretty major work. That's something that is sort of like PBR materials for realistic rendering. They'll be known values that can be collected and integrated into the 3D models for everybody in advance of purchasing the character models. Maybe in Genesis 9. I did a DexaScan in November that showed such fat, lean muscle mass information and it was pretty neat. It would be nice if DAZ models had morph dials where you could dial that sort of information in and it would adjust the appropriate shape morphs and weigh maps and surfaces maps. 

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955

    Well hopefully they will update how their characters work and they'll come with multiple weight maps that adjust in values & volume distributions, eg change the percentage of lean body mass vs fat in the body for the different areas, with 'morph dials' but that's pretty major work. That's something that is sort of like PBR materials for realistic rendering. They'll be known values that can be collected and integrated into the 3D models for everybody in advance of purchasing the character models. Maybe in Genesis 9. I did a DexaScan in November that showed such fat, lean muscle mass information and it was pretty neat. It would be nice if DAZ models had morph dials where you could dial that sort of information in and it would adjust the appropriate shape morphs and weigh maps and surfaces maps. 

    Well you can already (with the weight influence maps) paint in how squishy an area is. For instance on the full body map I did I made the breasts and lower glutes full red, while the rest of the body was full blue or very light purple. Farther adjustments can be made with the dynamic strength and other settings under the Surfaces tab. With a larger character you could paint full red to the belly area and any other more squishy parts and adjust the dynamic strength under Surfaces. :) I know it's not perfect, but for now it's not too shabby at all! heheh 

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 8,264
    edited December 2017

    Well hopefully they will update how their characters work and they'll come with multiple weight maps that adjust in values & volume distributions, eg change the percentage of lean body mass vs fat in the body for the different areas, with 'morph dials' but that's pretty major work. That's something that is sort of like PBR materials for realistic rendering. They'll be known values that can be collected and integrated into the 3D models for everybody in advance of purchasing the character models. Maybe in Genesis 9. I did a DexaScan in November that showed such fat, lean muscle mass information and it was pretty neat. It would be nice if DAZ models had morph dials where you could dial that sort of information in and it would adjust the appropriate shape morphs and weigh maps and surfaces maps. 

    Well you can already (with the weight influence maps) paint in how squishy an area is. For instance on the full body map I did I made the breasts and lower glutes full red, while the rest of the body was full blue or very light purple. Farther adjustments can be made with the dynamic strength and other settings under the Surfaces tab. With a larger character you could paint full red to the belly area and any other more squishy parts and adjust the dynamic strength under Surfaces. :) I know it's not perfect, but for now it's not too shabby at all! heheh 

    I haven't tried doing anything with weight maps other than the Influence Weights, but the New dForce Weight Node adds weight maps for things like friction stiffness, etc. Don't have the beast on, but I think I have an image showing all the maps. I'll attach it here as soon as I find it. Anyway, learning how to use these other maps will really open up dForce.

    Okay, it was in my private gallery, so I'll embed it instead:

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955
    edited December 2017
    L'Adair said:

    Well hopefully they will update how their characters work and they'll come with multiple weight maps that adjust in values & volume distributions, eg change the percentage of lean body mass vs fat in the body for the different areas, with 'morph dials' but that's pretty major work. That's something that is sort of like PBR materials for realistic rendering. They'll be known values that can be collected and integrated into the 3D models for everybody in advance of purchasing the character models. Maybe in Genesis 9. I did a DexaScan in November that showed such fat, lean muscle mass information and it was pretty neat. It would be nice if DAZ models had morph dials where you could dial that sort of information in and it would adjust the appropriate shape morphs and weigh maps and surfaces maps. 

    Well you can already (with the weight influence maps) paint in how squishy an area is. For instance on the full body map I did I made the breasts and lower glutes full red, while the rest of the body was full blue or very light purple. Farther adjustments can be made with the dynamic strength and other settings under the Surfaces tab. With a larger character you could paint full red to the belly area and any other more squishy parts and adjust the dynamic strength under Surfaces. :) I know it's not perfect, but for now it's not too shabby at all! heheh 

    I haven't tried doing anything with weight maps other than the Influence Weights, but the New dForce Weight Node adds weight maps for things like friction stiffness, etc. Don't have the beast on, but I think I have an image showing all the maps. I'll attach it here as soon as I find it. Anyway, learning how to use these other maps will really open up dForce.

    Okay, it was in my private gallery, so I'll embed it instead:

    Yeah, one of these days I'm going to need to experiment with all the different maps and see what all they do. I totally agree - it will really open dForce up a lot more once we get more of a handle on it! :D Daz has done a really cool job with the creation of this new tool. It's quite powerful and I have a feeling we are barely scratching the surface with all that it will eventually be proven to be able to do! :D

    Post edited by Divamakeup on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 8,264
    L'Adair said:

    Well hopefully they will update how their characters work and they'll come with multiple weight maps that adjust in values & volume distributions, eg change the percentage of lean body mass vs fat in the body for the different areas, with 'morph dials' but that's pretty major work. That's something that is sort of like PBR materials for realistic rendering. They'll be known values that can be collected and integrated into the 3D models for everybody in advance of purchasing the character models. Maybe in Genesis 9. I did a DexaScan in November that showed such fat, lean muscle mass information and it was pretty neat. It would be nice if DAZ models had morph dials where you could dial that sort of information in and it would adjust the appropriate shape morphs and weigh maps and surfaces maps. 

    Well you can already (with the weight influence maps) paint in how squishy an area is. For instance on the full body map I did I made the breasts and lower glutes full red, while the rest of the body was full blue or very light purple. Farther adjustments can be made with the dynamic strength and other settings under the Surfaces tab. With a larger character you could paint full red to the belly area and any other more squishy parts and adjust the dynamic strength under Surfaces. :) I know it's not perfect, but for now it's not too shabby at all! heheh 

    I haven't tried doing anything with weight maps other than the Influence Weights, but the New dForce Weight Node adds weight maps for things like friction stiffness, etc. Don't have the beast on, but I think I have an image showing all the maps. I'll attach it here as soon as I find it. Anyway, learning how to use these other maps will really open up dForce.

    Okay, it was in my private gallery, so I'll embed it instead:

    Yeah, one of these days I'm going to need to experiment with all the different maps and see what all they do. I totally agree - it will really open dForce up a lot more once we get more of a handle on it! :D Daz has done a really cool job with the creation of this new tool. It's quite powerful and I have a feeling we are barely scratching the surface with all that it will eventually be proven to be able to do! :D

    If they stopped development right now, that would still be true, (imo, of course.) But Daz is continuing to develop dForce. Daz Studio Build number 4.10.0.119 in the Change Log shows: "Update to dForce 1.0.0.25" the change log is currently up to 4.10.0.121.

    Can you imagine what dForce will do when dForce hits version 3 or 4. Holy wow. I can hardly wait.

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955
    L'Adair said:
    L'Adair said:

    Well hopefully they will update how their characters work and they'll come with multiple weight maps that adjust in values & volume distributions, eg change the percentage of lean body mass vs fat in the body for the different areas, with 'morph dials' but that's pretty major work. That's something that is sort of like PBR materials for realistic rendering. They'll be known values that can be collected and integrated into the 3D models for everybody in advance of purchasing the character models. Maybe in Genesis 9. I did a DexaScan in November that showed such fat, lean muscle mass information and it was pretty neat. It would be nice if DAZ models had morph dials where you could dial that sort of information in and it would adjust the appropriate shape morphs and weigh maps and surfaces maps. 

    Well you can already (with the weight influence maps) paint in how squishy an area is. For instance on the full body map I did I made the breasts and lower glutes full red, while the rest of the body was full blue or very light purple. Farther adjustments can be made with the dynamic strength and other settings under the Surfaces tab. With a larger character you could paint full red to the belly area and any other more squishy parts and adjust the dynamic strength under Surfaces. :) I know it's not perfect, but for now it's not too shabby at all! heheh 

    I haven't tried doing anything with weight maps other than the Influence Weights, but the New dForce Weight Node adds weight maps for things like friction stiffness, etc. Don't have the beast on, but I think I have an image showing all the maps. I'll attach it here as soon as I find it. Anyway, learning how to use these other maps will really open up dForce.

    Okay, it was in my private gallery, so I'll embed it instead:

    Yeah, one of these days I'm going to need to experiment with all the different maps and see what all they do. I totally agree - it will really open dForce up a lot more once we get more of a handle on it! :D Daz has done a really cool job with the creation of this new tool. It's quite powerful and I have a feeling we are barely scratching the surface with all that it will eventually be proven to be able to do! :D

    If they stopped development right now, that would still be true, (imo, of course.) But Daz is continuing to develop dForce. Daz Studio Build number 4.10.0.119 in the Change Log shows: "Update to dForce 1.0.0.25" the change log is currently up to 4.10.0.121.

    Can you imagine what dForce will do when dForce hits version 3 or 4. Holy wow. I can hardly wait.

    Oh my! I didn't know that! That's great news and quite exciting! surprise

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 12,188

    Yes, that's OK for dForce just beginning but it needs to be much better than that eventually.

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