Daz 3D Introduces dForce Physics Engine

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  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,953

    I think I have achieved soft body (successful 75% of the time)! lol laugh

    You've been busy, Diva - these look great! The Node Weight Map Brush and the Geometry Editor are 2 tools that many seem to shy away from, but are incredibly powerful. Glad to see you stuck with it!

    - Greg

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955
    edited December 2017

    I think I have achieved soft body (successful 75% of the time)! lol laugh

    You've been busy, Diva - these look great! The Node Weight Map Brush and the Geometry Editor are 2 tools that many seem to shy away from, but are incredibly powerful. Glad to see you stuck with it!

    - Greg

    Thank you, Greg! And thank you for the great inspiration to finally learn how to use those tools! :D I find the possibilities of this to be very exciting. And now that I'm learning some tricks to posing so that the figure doesn't collide with any "static" surfaces until the pose is in place - I'm successful with my soft body weight map nearly every time now.

    Next round of testing is to see if it plays well coupled with clothing or not.

    I might need to put that on the back burner for a while though, as I need to get working on my next product to submit to Daz. lol

    Post edited by Divamakeup on
  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,343

    Anyone know if there is a way to save Weight Node settings (so that I can apply them to other characters)?

    I so wish! Not only for dForce but D-Formers, push modifiers, and other places they are used.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 4,708
    edited December 2017

    It looks like it is quite easy to simulate in dForce, dynamic clothes for Poser, made for different figures.

    Below is an example dForce simulation on Genesis 3 Female of Tipol's dynamic Fairy Queen dress for Victoria 4.

    New Hexagon Beta works very well for creating morphs for such cases - just move and scale around to make

    initial fit of clothes to figure you want to use in simulation.

    image

    FairyQueen03pic01.jpg
    1280 x 1080 - 245K
    Post edited by Artini on
  • KooreoKooreo Posts: 33

    I have not read the whole thread there is a lot of pages. So I will just ask. If this has already be answer please point me to it.

    Can you use dforce to fix the breast cling problem? If so how?

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,343
    edited December 2017
    Post edited by RGcincy on
  • KooreoKooreo Posts: 33

    Thank you @RGcincy

  • This influence map/weight map thing is AH-MAY-ZING! :D

     

    What black magic is this @Divamakeup??? Is there a tutorial? Must play! LOL

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,365

    So I ran into a little issue with a robe I made.  I exported it with the Sash and ties for the Sash and while the dress draped nicely the sash exploded.  I tried a few tricks like making sure the influence for the sash was pure red, turned off self collision, even tried various strengths for draping but nope, even with strength turned all the way off it explodes.  So what else should I try? 

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,953
    RAMWolff said:

    So I ran into a little issue with a robe I made.  I exported it with the Sash and ties for the Sash and while the dress draped nicely the sash exploded.  I tried a few tricks like making sure the influence for the sash was pure red, turned off self collision, even tried various strengths for draping but nope, even with strength turned all the way off it explodes.  So what else should I try? 

    I might suggest a couple things to try to avoid explosions:

    1. Avoid intersecting (not physically possible) geometry from the start. Even better yet, avoid geometry that starts within the collision offset, if you get my drift. If this can't be avoided for some reason, you might try creating an Influence Weights map such that the intersecting areas have zero influence in the simulation. This isn't ideal, but may be the only way to get the sim to work for the geo.

    2. There is a complex relationship between the collision offset, the scale of the geometry (size of the quads/faces), and the distance the verts move from iteration to iteration. You might also try reducing the collision offset, reducing the scale of the geometry by subdividing, etc., or reducing the distance verts move in between iterations by adjusting the simulation parameters. It should be noted that these changes will definitely effect the simulation run time and the look of the drape as well (you'll most likely want to compensate by adjusting other physical properties in the surfaces tab).

    As always, this post by Rob is critical. I strongly suggest reading it all:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081

    These are just my observations, so take from them what you may . . . hope this helps!

    - Greg

     

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,365

    Thanks for the info.  I'm actually wanting to rig the ties that hang down from the main belt/sash so I'm struggling with that at the moment!  lol  The new sash I made didn't explode when I did a quickie test SIM so I think I'm on the right track now... :-)

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955

    This influence map/weight map thing is AH-MAY-ZING! :D

     

    What black magic is this @Divamakeup??? Is there a tutorial? Must play! LOL

    lol :) No black magic. Just add a dForce modifier weight node and paint on the figure where you want the soft bits to be.

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955
    edited December 2017

    Another experiment with creating soft body effects:

    Post edited by Divamakeup on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003

    Diva - that is wonderful and something that I know a lot of people have been asking for!

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,955
    edited December 2017
    PhilW said:

    Diva - that is wonderful and something that I know a lot of people have been asking for!

    Thank you, PhilW! :D Hopefully I can get it refined enough to submit it to Daz. If not I'll probably just release it as a freebie and let other people tinker with it. lol

    Post edited by Divamakeup on
  • PhilW said:

    Diva - that is wonderful and something that I know a lot of people have been asking for!

    Thank you, PhilW! :D Hopefully I can get it refined enough to submit it to Daz. If not I'll probably just release it as a freebie and let other people tinker with it. lol

    Diva, please, how the soft body will be ready, lay out your version of the working version. So far, this is the best I've seen. You're just super, keep it up !!!
  • Artini said:

    The power of 3D: iray + dForce

    image

    How did you control the thickness? Amazing!

  • aaráribel caađoaaráribel caađo Posts: 473
    edited December 2017

    (accidental double-post deleted)

    Post edited by aaráribel caađo on
  • Hmm.  I had a cape that was working fine before, but now when I try and simulate it, it disapears entirely.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 8,243

    Hmm.  I had a cape that was working fine before, but now when I try and simulate it, it disapears entirely.

    Did you update your version of DS? I noticed some differences in how dForce worked with the Platinum Cocktail dress between version .107 and version .118. I haven't tried it since updating to .121 and now .123.

  • Yes, it happened when I updated.  I see that there's also some new options for dforce showing up.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 8,243

    Yes, it happened when I updated.  I see that there's also some new options for dforce showing up.

    That's what I was afraid of. dForce is still in version 1, and I'm sure there will be a lot of tweaks and improvements as time goes by, some of which will break how we got used to doing things. I hope it turns out to be a quick fix.

  • JamesJABJamesJAB Posts: 1,550

    Here's my most recent dForce experiment.
    The bed (including matress, pillows, and blanket), Hair, and outfit are dForce surfaces.

    Getting the sim to be render ready involved:
    1. a rough all in simulation (hair set to invisible for sim)
    2. Dress only (all others frozen and invisible to sim)
    3. Bed only (hair and bolero jacket set to sim invis) (dress set to frozen sim)
    4. Bolero jacket only (Hair invis to sim) (Dress and bed frozen to sim)
    5. Hair only (Everything else frozen sim and visible to sim)

     

  • JamesJABJamesJAB Posts: 1,550

    In my Dforce experiments, I've found that turning down (or to zero) the dynamics strength on parts of clothing helps a lot on more complicated clothing items.
    For example on the Whymsy skirt, the waistband and closure on the back completely fall apart when set at 100% strength.
    This trick also wrks very well on waistbands for skirts and pants to keep them from slipping down the hips when they are suposed to be form fitting.

    Whymsy Cloths For Genesis 3 Female(s) fit to Genesis 8 Female and dForce applied.
    Certain parts including buttons have dynamics strength dialed down to 0.0
    This Render is frame 62 in an animation (frame 63 the skirt exploded at the top of her left thigh)

    Changed a few settings and incresed the subdivision level on both the cloths and G8F.  Got farther in before exploding this time. :P

  • Dave230Dave230 Posts: 476
    edited December 2017

    Just wondering, why doesn't the dForce Starter Essentials come with dForce surface presets?

    Surface properties are described here for different materials (silk,cotton,denim,etc..):
    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081/dforce-start-here#node_properties

    If I wanted my surface to behave like denim, then I should be able to click on a dForce preset called "denim" that would set all these surface properties for me.  I find the default surface properties to be too slippery, so they need to be adjusted to a certain material type.

    As much as I like dForce, I shouldn't have to figure out what all the "stiffness" values are for heavy cotton or something like that.  Just give me a one-click preset.

     

    Post edited by Dave230 on
  • Dave230 said:

    Just wondering, why doesn't the dForce Starter Essentials come with dForce surface presets?

    Surface properties are described here for different materials (silk,cotton,denim,etc..):
    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081/dforce-start-here#node_properties

    If I wanted my surface to behave like denim, then I should be able to click on a dForce preset called "denim" that would set all these surface properties for me.  I find the default surface properties to be too slippery, so they need to be adjusted to a certain material type.

    As much as I like dForce, I shouldn't have to figure out what all the "stiffness" values are for heavy cotton or something like that.  Just give me a one-click preset.

    Presets are not enough to deal with the simulation. Type of clothing also plays a role, e.g. a dress behaves differently to e.g. pants. One-click presets very rarely covers everything.

  • Dave230Dave230 Posts: 476

    Presets are not enough to deal with the simulation. Type of clothing also plays a role, e.g. a dress behaves differently to e.g. pants. One-click presets very rarely covers everything.

    As far as surface properties go, yes, presets do cover everything I need.  The default surface properties are too slippery, too body-conforming.  They make for a nice sheet drop demo, but are not practical for thicker materials.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 8,243
    Dave230 said:

    Just wondering, why doesn't the dForce Starter Essentials come with dForce surface presets?

    Surface properties are described here for different materials (silk,cotton,denim,etc..):
    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081/dforce-start-here#node_properties

    If I wanted my surface to behave like denim, then I should be able to click on a dForce preset called "denim" that would set all these surface properties for me.  I find the default surface properties to be too slippery, so they need to be adjusted to a certain material type.

    As much as I like dForce, I shouldn't have to figure out what all the "stiffness" values are for heavy cotton or something like that.  Just give me a one-click preset.

    Presets are not enough to deal with the simulation. Type of clothing also plays a role, e.g. a dress behaves differently to e.g. pants. One-click presets very rarely covers everything.

    That's true, but presets as a starting point would be a real time-saver.

    Perhaps we'll see something once dForce is further along. I know I'd be reluctant to provide presets that might not work correctly a few revisions after they were released. From the information put out upon release, I got the impression that dForce may "only" be for clothing now, but that Daz intends to extend the capabilities to hair and possibly props. Common sense would suggest extending the capabilities to other surfaces won't take place until they are confident the first phase is stable. After that, who knows, maybe we will see some material type presets.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003

    I agree that a few presets as a starting point would be useful, provided people understand that they are just that and may still need adjustment. A lot can depend on the mesh density and construction amongst other things.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,415

    I've run into something strange.  I'm using a dforce outfit for some promos.  I am not running the sim, the pose I am using doesn't need me to, the outfit conforms good enough without it.  However, every time I try and render the scene, it crashes my video card.  I have no problems with other Dforce items, and I'm not actually using the simulation.  Any ideas?  If I take the outfit off, the rest of the scene renders fine.  If I try and render it with just the outfit it still crashes.

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