Daz 3D Introduces dForce Physics Engine

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  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 8,132

    FYI, the latest beta was released today, 4.11.0.380

    Update to dForce 1.1.0.227

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 2,849
    L'Adair said:

    FYI, the latest beta was released today, 4.11.0.380

    Update to dForce 1.1.0.227

    My being new to this (haven't tried it out yet), how do we get it?

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 8,132
    L'Adair said:

    FYI, the latest beta was released today, 4.11.0.380

    Update to dForce 1.1.0.227

    My being new to this (haven't tried it out yet), how do we get it?

    You "buy" it like any freebie. Here's the link.

    You'll need to use DIM to download and install. And you'll probably need to tell DIM in the Download Filters to show "Public Build".

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 2,849
    L'Adair said:

    You "buy" it like any freebie. Here's the link.

    You'll need to use DIM to download and install. And you'll probably need to tell DIM in the Download Filters to show "Public Build".

    My DIM doesn't work ... something about 'permissions' no one has been able to help me fix. So I install everything manually. Thanks for the link :)

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 8,132
    L'Adair said:

    You "buy" it like any freebie. Here's the link.

    You'll need to use DIM to download and install. And you'll probably need to tell DIM in the Download Filters to show "Public Build".

    My DIM doesn't work ... something about 'permissions' no one has been able to help me fix. So I install everything manually. Thanks for the link :)

    sad

    I'm sorry to hear that.

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 2,849

    I've watched a few tutorials trying to attempt my first dforce simulation and I seem to be missing something ... No dForce modifier option. Now what?

  • Eustace ScrubbEustace Scrubb Posts: 2,438
    Leana said:

    Another novice question ... will dforce drape poser-dynamic garments?

    It often works well on them yes.

    Often, but not always.  Some work better than others.

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,285

    I've watched a few tutorials trying to attempt my first dforce simulation and I seem to be missing something ... No dForce modifier option. Now what?

    You may need to run Window/Workspace/Update and Merge Menus if you haven't.

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 2,849

    Thanks ... all looking like the tutorial videos, now. Now to see if I can understand the tutorials, lol.

  • Bot the new beta & 4.11 full version fail to show nVidia RTX cards as OpenCL devices.

    Given nVidia has long included OpenCL support in their drivers and chairs the OpenCL Working Group, the clear implication is DAZ has yet work out how to code for anything newer than the GTX 10-series.

     

    Highly disappointing as dForce & iRay were major reasons for upgrading from a defective GTX1080ti.  Why the abject lack of support for dF when iRay just screams on an RTX?   Does every RTX 20-series owner need to push a support ticket claiming dF is broken?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 56,647

    Bot the new beta & 4.11 full version fail to show nVidia RTX cards as OpenCL devices.

    Given nVidia has long included OpenCL support in their drivers and chairs the OpenCL Working Group, the clear implication is DAZ has yet work out how to code for anything newer than the GTX 10-series.

     

    Highly disappointing as dForce & iRay were major reasons for upgrading from a defective GTX1080ti.  Why the abject lack of support for dF when iRay just screams on an RTX?   Does every RTX 20-series owner need to push a support ticket claiming dF is broken?

    There have, I think, been one or two other reports of this but it is not universal - and I'm not sure how much, if any, device-specific OpenCL coding is needed anyway.

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 2,849
    edited June 20

    Since so many in this thread helped me fight with learning dforce to get this scene done, here is the end result ... featuring V4, LAMH fox, and dforce long hoodie. Thanks for all the help, guys :)

      

    Post edited by WillowRaven on
  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 2,538

    Very Nice!yes

  • Surprised with as much Daz seems to love Nvidia Iray your physics simulator is not based on Nvidia PhysX 

  • Surprised with as much Daz seems to love Nvidia Iray your physics simulator is not based on Nvidia PhysX 

    I don't think Daz "loves" nVidia - Iray is the only bit that is semi-dependent on nVidia cards (it will work on CPU too), and that may well reflect what was available at the time (Pro Render came later than Iray, as I recall - certainly allowing for the time it must have taken to add, going by the wait after the previous release of DS).

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,703
    edited October 30

    I just upgraded from 4.10 to 4.12 yesterday. I realized I bought dforce hairs and the cat fur and I absolutely no idea how to set up and render anything. At the time I bought them, I just thought they were dforce like regular dforce clothes. 
    I loaded the cat with fur yesterday, clicked simulation and the spikey bits were still spikey. No fur?? No clue. Same with Bang Bob, Long Curly hair, Curly Bun, Drago Hair and beard and Nyo-Hair.  How do I get these hairs and the cat to simulate?  Also don't know when to pose the figure or to start in the default pose, or use animated timeline.  Just everything stumps me. I have the pdf tutorial for the Curly hair, but it confuses me. And that hair is in colored layers. Mine loads already colored. Plus it says there are videos.  I don't have any videos and don't know where to look. None of the other hairs I bought even have a pdf that I can find.

    Anyway, need help for how to make fur on my cat and the hairs. I tried to look through 38 pages plus another thread, but ppl are focused on making hair. I need how to sim it. Plus I need it in very simple terms. Like first this, then that, etc. I had a stroke last year and it's hard for me to learn and process lots of techie info.  Thanks. 

    Post edited by sapat on
  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 2,745
    edited October 30
    Post edited by carrie58 on
  • AlmightyQUESTAlmightyQUEST Posts: 1,288
    The hair simulations should be done similar to clothing simulations in my experience. If needed, in the case of shorter fur I've found the difference when simulated is often pretty minimal and not needed if they aren't pressing up against anything. I'll take a look later to see if I have bookmarked anything specific to hair simulations.
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,407

    Linday dForce hair products come with video tutorials that you can install with DIM. 

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,703
    carrie58 said:

    Thanks. it looks like it's for clothing. Wish they had ones for hair. But I'll try it anyway.

    The hair simulations should be done similar to clothing simulations in my experience. If needed, in the case of shorter fur I've found the difference when simulated is often pretty minimal and not needed if they aren't pressing up against anything. I'll take a look later to see if I have bookmarked anything specific to hair simulations.


    Wow, that would be great.  I really need to see something.  I wonder how everyone here is doing all this hair sim stuff and not having issues.  Sigh.

     

    barbult said:

    Linday dForce hair products come with video tutorials that you can install with DIM. 

    The only video sims are Linday Bang Bob Hair. They're really blurry even full size (to me) so I can't see what the process and what sliders and settings he's using. And they move way  too fast for me.  Wish there were videos for his other hairs I have. Plus he's exporting the hair as an obj, and I have no idea how he brings it back in and what settings he used. I guess he figures that if you've got the general idea for one hair, you should be able to do the other ones.....uh, no.

    i still need to know the steps to at least make the cat fur render. Here is what I get when I load the base cat and add fur, or the cat that already has fur. I'm not changing any settings in the sim. I left the timeline at 30 frames. Posed cat at frame 15. With cat still selected in the scene I hit render. He posed, the fur didn't do anything. This is pretty bad when I can't even put fur on the cat.

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  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,407
    edited October 31

    I have Linday video tutorials (installed by DIM) for Bang Bob Hair, Classic Long Hair, and Classic Long Curly Hair. They also come with a PDF file of instructions. 

    You have to render the cat to see the fur. You are looking at only the guide hairs in the viewport. 

    Post edited by barbult on
  • marblemarble Posts: 3,893

    I do hope that there are plans to extend the functions of dForce to include the ability to manipulate the cloth during the simulation. In other words, pull the cloth. I'm aware of dForce magnets (I even bought the product but find it very fiddly and non-intuitive) but this in no way approaches the versatility you get with Marvelous Designer or even VWD. I'm also not sure why dForce takes so long to simulate. MD is much faster and MD9 has introduced GPU simulation to make it almost instant (isn't dForce already using the GPU?). I'm not suggesting that a free addition to DAZ Studio should do all that MD can do but surely the technology can't be so far behind as to require 3 minutes to do what MD can do in 3 seconds?

    Going back to pulling the cloth. One of the biggest problems I have with dForce is its tendency to "stick" to anything it touches. Even if I reduce friction and other parameters, I can't get it to avoid clinging to some finger that happened to get in the way during the drape. Yet when I want a hand to "grip" it, I need to use those awkward magnets.

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,285
    sapat said:
    i still need to know the steps to at least make the cat fur render. Here is what I get when I load the base cat and add fur, or the cat that already has fur. I'm not changing any settings in the sim. I left the timeline at 30 frames. Posed cat at frame 15. With cat still selected in the scene I hit render. He posed, the fur didn't do anything. This is pretty bad when I can't even put fur on the cat.

    A couple of suggestions:

    1. For the dForce simulation, be sure to turn animated simulation on (go to Simulation Settings pane, select Duration, choose Animated (Use Timeline Range) from the drop down box.

    2. I own but haven't used the cat so I gave it a try. After loading and choosing a material using Smart Content, the cat rendered but without the fur, just the base color. Looking at the scene pane, I saw there was a Cat Fur child to the cat (see image). Choosing that, and adding one of the hair materials, I got the hair to render. It's a little clearer in the Content Library, as materials are sorted by Base, Complete, and Hair which makes it clearer as which to use. I did find it odd that the hair sometimes rendered and sometimes didn't when I would choose different Complete materials.

    Hope that gives you some help.

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  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,285
    marble said:

    ...to include the ability to manipulate the cloth during the simulation. In other words, pull the cloth. I'm aware of dForce magnets...

    Going back to pulling the cloth. One of the biggest problems I have with dForce is its tendency to "stick" to anything it touches. Even if I reduce friction and other parameters, I can't get it to avoid clinging to some finger that happened to get in the way during the drape. Yet when I want a hand to "grip" it, I need to use those awkward magnets.

    In my thread on dForce, I talk about using helper objects to move meshes around. They work similar to magnets but are just a primitive sphere or other object. You can locate one were the fingers are and parent it to the fingers, hide the hand, animate the pose and run the simulation, then unhide the hand and hide the sphere. A couple of posts that illustrate some of this:

    45 - Cylinder Helpers - Creating a Shawl

    47 - Spherical Helper - Pulling a Cloth through a Ring

    This is also covered in the video tutorials:  powerful-dforce-discoveries-and-solutions      new-dforce-discoveries

     

  • marblemarble Posts: 3,893
    RGcincy said:
    marble said:

    ...to include the ability to manipulate the cloth during the simulation. In other words, pull the cloth. I'm aware of dForce magnets...

    Going back to pulling the cloth. One of the biggest problems I have with dForce is its tendency to "stick" to anything it touches. Even if I reduce friction and other parameters, I can't get it to avoid clinging to some finger that happened to get in the way during the drape. Yet when I want a hand to "grip" it, I need to use those awkward magnets.

    In my thread on dForce, I talk about using helper objects to move meshes around. They work similar to magnets but are just a primitive sphere or other object. You can locate one were the fingers are and parent it to the fingers, hide the hand, animate the pose and run the simulation, then unhide the hand and hide the sphere. A couple of posts that illustrate some of this:

    45 - Cylinder Helpers - Creating a Shawl

    47 - Spherical Helper - Pulling a Cloth through a Ring

    This is also covered in the video tutorials:  powerful-dforce-discoveries-and-solutions      new-dforce-discoveries

     

    Thanks Rich.

    I actually bought your Video tutorial yesterday but have not had a chance to go through it yet. It is the second of the two so I guess I'm missing out on the basics but I'll try to catch up by looking through your thread. I think it is fantastic what you have managed to do with a product that is far from mature and appreciate the efforts you have made to share your experiances.

    I also have MD8 and am likewise slow in getting to grips with that. I'd love to create clothing in MD and bring it into DAZ Studio to drape with dForce but I do so wish that dForce had the versatility and speed of MD when draping.

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,703
    barbult said:

    I have Linday video tutorials (installed by DIM) for Bang Bob Hair, Classic Long Hair, and Classic Long Curly Hair. They also come with a PDF file of instructions. 

    You have to render the cat to see the fur. You are looking at only the guide hairs in the viewport. 

    How do I look them up in DIM? The only videos I have were in the installations for bang bob. None of the other ones had them. I guess I'll try doing a manual download of one of the others and see if they're in the zip. Otherwise, not sure where to look them up.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,407
    sapat said:
    barbult said:

    I have Linday video tutorials (installed by DIM) for Bang Bob Hair, Classic Long Hair, and Classic Long Curly Hair. They also come with a PDF file of instructions. 

    You have to render the cat to see the fur. You are looking at only the guide hairs in the viewport. 

    How do I look them up in DIM? The only videos I have were in the installations for bang bob. None of the other ones had them. I guess I'll try doing a manual download of one of the others and see if they're in the zip. Otherwise, not sure where to look them up.

    This is just basic install manager stuff. If you can see the Bang Bob videos, you should be able to see the others.

    • Make sure you have the General filter enabled in the DIM Download Filters.
    • Enter Tutorials in the search filter. My Linday hair tutorials are in the Installed tab, because I have already downloaded and installed them. Yours are probably in the Ready to Download or Ready to Install tab. Or in the Installed tab, if you already installed them and forgot.

     

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  • AlmightyQUESTAlmightyQUEST Posts: 1,288

    I'm not finding anything I bookmarked on it unfortunately. You said you rendered, but your attached image wasn't the render. Can you show what you get when you render? You can render without running a simulation at all. If the strand hair isn't showing up at all, there may be something missing in your Studio install.

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,703
    barbult said:
    sapat said:
    barbult said:

    I have Linday video tutorials (installed by DIM) for Bang Bob Hair, Classic Long Hair, and Classic Long Curly Hair. They also come with a PDF file of instructions. 

    You have to render the cat to see the fur. You are looking at only the guide hairs in the viewport. 

    How do I look them up in DIM? The only videos I have were in the installations for bang bob. None of the other ones had them. I guess I'll try doing a manual download of one of the others and see if they're in the zip. Otherwise, not sure where to look them up.

    This is just basic install manager stuff. If you can see the Bang Bob videos, you should be able to see the others.

    • Make sure you have the General filter enabled in the DIM Download Filters.
    • Enter Tutorials in the search filter. My Linday hair tutorials are in the Installed tab, because I have already downloaded and installed them. Yours are probably in the Ready to Download or Ready to Install tab. Or in the Installed tab, if you already installed them and forgot.

     

    Thanks. That solved the problem. I didn't have the general box checked in the filters, and didn't know there was even a tutorial filter. I've only used dim off and on for about 6 moths, and only had checked what I thought I needed. Now I know.  Much appreciated!
    Appreciate your 

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,407
    edited November 1
    sapat said:
    barbult said:
    sapat said:
    barbult said:

    I have Linday video tutorials (installed by DIM) for Bang Bob Hair, Classic Long Hair, and Classic Long Curly Hair. They also come with a PDF file of instructions. 

    You have to render the cat to see the fur. You are looking at only the guide hairs in the viewport. 

    How do I look them up in DIM? The only videos I have were in the installations for bang bob. None of the other ones had them. I guess I'll try doing a manual download of one of the others and see if they're in the zip. Otherwise, not sure where to look them up.

    This is just basic install manager stuff. If you can see the Bang Bob videos, you should be able to see the others.

    • Make sure you have the General filter enabled in the DIM Download Filters.
    • Enter Tutorials in the search filter. My Linday hair tutorials are in the Installed tab, because I have already downloaded and installed them. Yours are probably in the Ready to Download or Ready to Install tab. Or in the Installed tab, if you already installed them and forgot.

     

    Thanks. That solved the problem. I didn't have the general box checked in the filters, and didn't know there was even a tutorial filter. I've only used dim off and on for about 6 moths, and only had checked what I thought I needed. Now I know.  Much appreciated!
    Appreciate your 

    yes Glad you found them! The "Tutorials" word that I entered was just a search word, because I new these products had that word in the name. It just made them easier to find in the list of all General stuff.

    Post edited by barbult on
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