Daz 3D Introduces dForce Physics Engine

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  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,879
    L'Adair said:

    I may have missed if this was commented on elsewhere, but it seems (and I haven't done any sort of imperical testing with say the MFD or anything) that the drape proccesses faster with older figures.  At least it seems that G2 proccesses faster than G3 which is faster than G8...

    Anyone else notice this?  Or is it just a weird conicidence based on what I'm testing with each figure?

    I haven't noticed, but I wasn't looking for it, either. To be sure it's the figure, you would need to use the same clothing. But then there is the potetial issue of time differences caused by fitting the clothing of one generation to another. Regardless, I'll pay more attention to the simulation time now. lol

    That's why I was thinking the MFD.  Yes, it's been remodled slighty for each generation, but the basic dress is more or less the same for all of them.

  • peteVaultpeteVault Posts: 308
    edited November 2017

    Post edited by peteVault on
  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,403
    peteVault said:

    nice seeing this in motion

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,063

    L'Adair - wonderful results and great analysis too.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,063
    Ruphuss said:
    peteVault said:

    nice seeing this in motion

    +1

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 5,558
    edited November 2017

    dForce simulation of Florinda Dress on FWSA Tansy

    https://www.daz3d.com/florinda-dress

    https://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-tansy

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    Post edited by Artini on
  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,505
    edited November 2017

    Sorry, wrong thread

    Post edited by RGcincy on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,444
    RGcincy said:

    Sorry, wrong thread

    That's okay. But now that you've made us all curious, a link to the correct thread would be very convenient!
    wink

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,505
    edited November 2017

    Sure. I was trying to post this to my dForce thread but had this one open by mistake. You can find the post in its right spot here.

    Post edited by RGcincy on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,444

    FYI, if you haven't noticed it yet, Beta 4.10.0.118 is now available.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 15,175
    L'Adair said:

    FYI, if you haven't noticed it yet, Beta 4.10.0.118 is now available.

    Thanks, I hadn't noticed.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 5,558
    edited November 2017

    Droid and the tire - simulated in dForce

    https://www.daz3d.com/droid

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    Post edited by Artini on
  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735
    Artini said:

    Droid and the tire - simulated in dForce

    https://www.daz3d.com/droid

     

    Cool!

  • FWIWFWIW Posts: 308

    Is there like a how to weight map for morons tutorial out there? I went to dforce a dress and it looks like it will work really well... once I get the top to stop melting to her navel. I thought maybe I could do something about that in the surfaces pane because its material zones are set up like top, middle, skirt. But the options there confuse me a lot. I know there is a thread somewhere that involved towels on a line that shows what each of the stretch/bend/etc things does but I can't find it. So... weight mapping for morons? (I can't seem to wrap my comprehension issues around it)

  • Is there like a how to weight map for morons tutorial out there? I went to dforce a dress and it looks like it will work really well... once I get the top to stop melting to her navel. I thought maybe I could do something about that in the surfaces pane because its material zones are set up like top, middle, skirt. But the options there confuse me a lot. I know there is a thread somewhere that involved towels on a line that shows what each of the stretch/bend/etc things does but I can't find it. So... weight mapping for morons? (I can't seem to wrap my comprehension issues around it)

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/208141/how-to-use-dforce-creating-a-blanket-draping-clothes-on-furniture-and-much-more/p1

    This has the towels on the line

  • FWIWFWIW Posts: 308

    Thank you!

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,444
    edited November 2017

    Is there like a how to weight map for morons tutorial out there? I went to dforce a dress and it looks like it will work really well... once I get the top to stop melting to her navel. I thought maybe I could do something about that in the surfaces pane because its material zones are set up like top, middle, skirt. But the options there confuse me a lot. I know there is a thread somewhere that involved towels on a line that shows what each of the stretch/bend/etc things does but I can't find it. So... weight mapping for morons? (I can't seem to wrap my comprehension issues around it)

    @WinterFlame, I have a thread over in the Art Studio that may help. It's in it's infancy, but there is a complete post on applying weight to the Cloak of the Medieval Cloaks product. Here is a link to that post: Medieval Cloaks, Part 3b. Two posts after that are detailed instructions for using the Geometry Editor to create custom areas to fill with Weight.

    Maybe it will help. If not, please feel free to ask specific questions there about what you are trying to do.

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 5,558

    Thanks, Sapat.

     

  • I'm just trying to find a good d'Force getting started tutorial. Having tyhe info spread out like what I have found makes getting it a chore to gather and compile into a coherent and understandable document. Videos I have found are skimpy on the information needed.

    I want to know:

    1. Where to find the simulation pane.

    2. instructions in a step by step format.

    3. What can be converted to cloth, and then have a d'Force Node applied to it.

    4. How to convert a modeled piece to cloth.

     

    Maybe I am missing where this info can be found, but that is my point; not knowing where to look. Maybe the actual getting started thing is included in DS 4.10, but again I need to know where to look. I'm excited to try this out as soon as possible!

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,156
    edited November 2017

    1. Window -> Panes (Tabs) -> Simulation Settings

    2. Instructions to do exactly what?

    3. I'd suggest those not familiar with cloth sims to start with dForce compliant clothing sold in the store (compliant clothing will have dForce in the name: https://www.daz3d.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=dforce)

    4. In the Simulation Settings pane, click on the context sensitive menu in the upper right corner and choose dForce -> Add dForce Modifier: Dynamic Surface

    And of course, read this whole post start to finish:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081

    Hope this helps.

    - Greg

     

     

    Post edited by algovincian on
  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,505

    1. Where to find the simulation pane.

    2. instructions in a step by step format.

    3. What can be converted to cloth, and then have a d'Force Node applied to it.

    4. How to convert a modeled piece to cloth.

    For non-clothing applications of dForce, you can check out my thread: How to Use dForce: Creating a Blanket, Draping Clothes on Furniture, and Much More 

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,444
    And of course, read this whole post start to finish:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081

    Sadly, that's not going to help much. It's all tech speak, with terms that make no sense if you don't already know what they mean. I'd been experimenting with dForce for a couple weeks before it started to make sense.
    sad

    I want to know:

    2. instructions in a step by step format.

    Have you checked out "dForce, dWeight and dWardrobe. Chronicles of..." yet? There is a step-by-step on using the Cloak from Medieval Cloaks. I'm about to put up something similar for the Platinum Cocktail Dress, as well.

    There are a number of other threads, like this one, where people are sharing their experiences with dForce. I'm afraid this new feature, like Iray before it, doesn't have one thread with an easy answer on how to use it. Besides my thread, @RGcincy' thread has a lot of good information, and he's done a lot of experimentation with alternate uses. (not putting clothing on figures.) That thread is well worth the time:

    RGcincy said:

    For non-clothing applications of dForce, you can check out my thread: How to Use dForce: Creating a Blanket, Draping Clothes on Furniture, and Much More 

    In the three years I've been playing with Daz Studio, I've found it to be a jump in and "sink or swim" kind of experience. Use Google, start your searches with "site:www.daz3d.com/forums" (without the quotes,) and the terms to search. Be specific. That's how I found the information I needed as I needed it to move forward when I first got started. There is a wealth of information in these forums, but it can be overwhelming and intimidating. Google can help you break it into useable chunks.

    Also, dForce is still very new, with even seasoned DS users struggling to get a handle on it, not to mention things changing with each new Beta release. Believe me, you are not alone in your confusion. But it does get better, as one success will lead to another. And then another.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 5,558
    edited November 2017

    The power of 3D: iray + dForce

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    Post edited by Artini on
  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735
    Artini said:

    The power of 3D: iray + dForce

    Super cool!  Well done.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 5,558

    Thanks a lot, Sapat.

     

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 11,782
    sapat said:
    Artini said:

    The power of 3D: iray + dForce

    Super cool!  Well done.

    I agree!

    Dana

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 5,558
    edited November 2017

    Thanks, Dana. It was really nice to see, that one can change the thickness of the material in dForce.

     

    Post edited by Artini on
  • I will have a look at this.  There's a post about the whole thing, a bit gibberish, but I've turned it into a PDF, and I'll read and mark it up for you later.  It might clear things up.

    For now...

    Think of Dforce like a physical kinetics simulator... .."A what?"  Basically, it takes in information about the objects in the scene, and makes automated adjustments to them based on their parameters... ..."Huh?"  The type of material will affect gravity and surface tension for every object.  When simulated, each object that's designated as a simulated object will have a surface tension and weight.  Other objects will be as solid as a brick wall with no motion due to weight, but they will provide a surface for collision.  Only objects with added parameters will be simulated, others will only be collided.  For realism, hit anything that would have a soft or flexi-style surface with some parameters, one at a time, until each has something.  Start with objects sitting on other objects, and work your way down in the structure of the scene.  This will allow you to get outer points, then allow their given weight to the tension of what's underneath, so you can keep realism by adjusting the under-properties to get the right result from what's already been done above, allowing you to get gravity about right, creating the proper flex for surface tension.  What numbers to use?  Look up the weight of a real substance online, then apply what you can or download a material, apply it, and work from that outward and down until you finish the scene.  Any geometry and physics you create should be saveable and you can use it again or send it along to others to help out.

    Hope that helps.  The menus are a bit linguistically confusing, but essentially, you'll add geometry, then add adjustments, and so forth until you get to where you need to go.  Best of luck.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,815
    edited December 2017

    I've been experimenting with "soft body" effects with dForce. Most have been pretty disastrous but I've gotten a few decent results. 

    You can get some OK results with the figure's dynamic strength turned all the way to Zero for every part/surface zone but the Torso. Here I have the torso dynamic strength set to around 21% with the rest of the body's dynamic strength turned to zero:

      

    Disaster results with the more extreme poses though. Still, it's been fun experimenting. :)

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 14,336
    edited December 2017

    I've been experimenting with "soft body" effects with dForce. Most have been pretty disastrous but I've gotten a few decent results. 

    You can get some OK results with the figure's dynamic strength turned all the way to Zero for every part/surface zone but the Torso. Here I have the torso dynamic strength set to around 21% with the rest of the body's dynamic strength turned to zero:

      

    Disaster results with the more extreme poses though. Still, it's been fun experimenting. :)

    I was noticing on the texture patterns on the human body there are so many different zones that are needed - the fingers on each side and for each phalange, the same with the toes, the head is almost only one zone when there should be one for the cheeks, nose, nose tip, and so on.

    I think then with all those extra zones you could then get a decent shoot at using dForce to for example, create jowls on a very fat or aged person. To create saggy upper eyelids. To create saggy lower eyelids, and so on.

    And for what you are doing, on the legs for example, the front and bag of the legs above the knees are mostly the same texture roughness wise and instead there surfaces maps should be used to follow the way the surface muscles and/or fat desposits sit under the skin then your simulation would would much better I think.

    However, we then need various 'Surfaces' presets for varying levels of age, weight, muscularity, along with the properly painted weight maps for those various Surfaces Presets to take advantage of those extra surfaces zones.

    Kind of exciting that they'd implement something along those lines and get some really realistic renders possible.

    Is is possible to have changable weight maps settings saved as presets in DAZ Studio? I have never heard or seen such a concept till your post gave me that this and it is a neccessity for such expanded surfaces presets to actually work properly with dForce.

    +++++

    Thinking about it more, it would be nice to have different types of surfaces changable with presets that can overlap and be applied to the model at the same time because the skin texture variation isn't often going to correspond to the underlying fat, muscle, and connective tissues distributions along with the surface hair and skin. So need surfaces maps for skin, connective tissue, fat, hair, and muscles and that is 5 types of surfaces maps that need to be applied at one time and have overlap between different types of surfaces, and sometimes overlap on the same surfaces tye like for example hair types would overlap.

    Then you'd need weight map presets for painting all those surface maps with weightmaps and that can be applied to the model all at the same time with overlap - the skin (maybe the connective tissue & skin should be considered the same Surface & weightmap type since they both factor into wrinkles & such heavily), the muscles, the fat, the hair, the skin, the connective tissue. 

    Then leave the rest to the magic of dForce dynamics and a heck of a CPU(s) to calculated the deltas over any animation sequence or still pose.

    That leaves the eyes but they are kind of special case compared to the rest of the body.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
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