Sahel HD

bluejaunte

barbult said:

I'm only inclined to buy an expensive character without separate head and body morphs, if its shape is truly unlike anything I already own, like when George came out was released ("came out" has a new meaning these days). I think George, with his large neck, might be difficult to separate into a head and body that work independently, without looking distorted.

Separate head and body morphs without separate HD morphs? Hmmm... I'd have to evaluate that idea when I see how well the combined HD works with the individual head and body morphs. If it still looks good, I'm OK with it, I think. Thanks for the transparency about your plans for the upcoming character. 

Is Sahel an expensive character with everything included? If so, would you find her less expensive if she was 19.95 with the smile available separately, as with clothes and texture expansions?

FSMCDesigns

bluejaunte said:

Yeah, I want you guys to understand the issue a little better. To create above average characters and include all the features like HD morph, her own smile, fibremesh eyebrows and all the other options, I need to find ways to make it all feasible. This all adds to production time, and I prefer to still offer stuff at a reasonable price. Because with too high prices you never know how many people will feel it's too much and not buy at the initial release. Look at other stuff sold in the store. Clothes with one texture for 20 bucks, 2 texture expansion for 14.95 each. All of that combined, I would argue, had a fraction of the production time of Sahel. But it's 50 bucks. Pretty much any character, regardless of quality, realism and features, sells for around 19.95. Despite all that I'm selling Sahel for 29.95 with her own smile, which could be seen as 19.95 + 10 for the smile, or 24.95 + 5 for the smile or whatever. This is a pretty sweet deal right?

So to make that work I can only see 2 possible solutions at the moment:

1. save time whereever I can on less important stuff, and to me head/body separation was such a thing. Does not influence the quality of the character per se, it's just a lack of convenience or perhaps usefullness for creating your own dial-spun creations. Of course this task is rather ridiculously small in grand scheme of things, but that's only because the amount of work that went into Sahel is pretty insane. And also then reuse some stuff for a few characters, iterate rather than start from scratch every time.
2. I can increase the price to a level or near that of Daz main figures. 44.95 usually for the figure alone. Another 40 later for the HD morph. Unlikely Daz would even accept such pricing, ultimately they have the last word on that and are basing it on their sales data which will inevitably show 19.95 as the sweet spot for PA characters.

So to me option 1 seems way better for everyone. I just wanted you to see a bit where I'm coming from and that this wasn't a lazy cop out on my behalf but a very concsious decision, just a tiny little bit to make it work. Let me know your opinion on all of this, perhaps areas where you think you could forgive me taking some shortcuts.

Having said that, Sahel is doing really well so thank you all for the support! I can say without a shadow of a doubt, the most important thing by far to make this work is that you actually buy 

Thanks for explaining in more detail. To be honest your post about the "next character will have separate head and body but not for HD" made me feel like you could care less what the consumers wanted/needed and I almost returned the product, mostly because the lack of separate head and body really hinders my use of the product, BUT I really love the skin and there are parts of the body morph that really stand out, like her hands. The smile is great, but for me, it is mainly a novelty and not something I would use much at all. If it came down to 19.95 + 10 for the smile, I would happily do without the smile if it was an option

 

bluejaunte said:

Is Sahel an expensive character with everything included? If so, would you find her less expensive if she was 19.95 with the smile available separately, as with clothes and texture expansions?

For most, I would say yes based on forum posts I see. For me, the price was up there but I was able to justify the expense since I do a fair bit of commercial 3D work and also have a good job, so it's easier for me.

I never buy texture expansions as that comes across as nickle and diming a customer (they should be included with the product IMO) and I can always make my own .

Taoz

bluejaunte said:

jardine said:

so...are we going to see separate head and body/headHD and bodyHD dials for sahel in an update? 

 

I'll release a head/body separation expansion for 14.95 

There is one on sale here:

https://www.daz3d.com/the-guillotine

 

barbult

bluejaunte said:

barbult said:

I'm only inclined to buy an expensive character without separate head and body morphs, if its shape is truly unlike anything I already own, like when George came out was released ("came out" has a new meaning these days). I think George, with his large neck, might be difficult to separate into a head and body that work independently, without looking distorted.

Separate head and body morphs without separate HD morphs? Hmmm... I'd have to evaluate that idea when I see how well the combined HD works with the individual head and body morphs. If it still looks good, I'm OK with it, I think. Thanks for the transparency about your plans for the upcoming character. 

Is Sahel an expensive character with everything included? If so, would you find her less expensive if she was 19.95 with the smile available separately, as with clothes and texture expansions?

She is "expensive", because it is a psychological thing - a threshold above which I feel hesitant to spend money. The same thing happens with things like Stonemason sets. There is no denying the beauty of the items sold, but the release price, even with new release discount, is higher than other things competing for my attention. And soon Sahel goes off introductory pricing, making her almost $30. Look at the Alexandra deal. For about twice the price of Sahel, I got the whole Alexandra pro bundle, 3 additional new items, and 3 older bundles. Daz makes it tough for a PA to compete.

If the smile were sold separately, would work on "any" G8F, and cost under $10, I probably would have put it in my cart without hesitation. Now that may sound stupid to you. For a few dollars more, I could have the whole character with morphs and skin. But I have a lot of G8F characters and morphs. Again, it is a psychological thing. Is she that much different than what i have or could make with the morphs I have and the other young Caucasian skins I already have? Some user renders show her as dark and sallow, so I wonder if she would really be that much better for me? These are the things that impacted my decision to not buy her (yet anyway).

bluejaunte

Taoz said:

bluejaunte said:

jardine said:

so...are we going to see separate head and body/headHD and bodyHD dials for sahel in an update? 

 

I'll release a head/body separation expansion for 14.95 

There is one on sale here:

https://www.daz3d.com/the-guillotine

 

bluejaunte

barbult said:

bluejaunte said:

barbult said:

I'm only inclined to buy an expensive character without separate head and body morphs, if its shape is truly unlike anything I already own, like when George came out was released ("came out" has a new meaning these days). I think George, with his large neck, might be difficult to separate into a head and body that work independently, without looking distorted.

Separate head and body morphs without separate HD morphs? Hmmm... I'd have to evaluate that idea when I see how well the combined HD works with the individual head and body morphs. If it still looks good, I'm OK with it, I think. Thanks for the transparency about your plans for the upcoming character. 

Is Sahel an expensive character with everything included? If so, would you find her less expensive if she was 19.95 with the smile available separately, as with clothes and texture expansions?

She is "expensive", because it is a psychological thing - a threshold above which I feel hesitant to spend money. The same thing happens with things like Stonemason sets. There is no denying the beauty of the items sold, but the release price, even with new release discount, is higher than other things competing for my attention. And soon Sahel goes off introductory pricing, making her almost $30. Look at the Alexandra deal. For about twice the price of Sahel, I got the whole Alexandra pro bundle, 3 additional new items, and 3 older bundles. Daz makes it tough for a PA to compete.

If the smile were sold separately, would work on "any" G8F, and cost under $10, I probably would have put it in my cart without hesitation. Now that may sound stupid to you. For a few dollars more, I could have the whole character with morphs and skin. But I have a lot of G8F characters and morphs. Again, it is a psychological thing. Is she that much different than what i have or could make with the morphs I have and the other young Caucasian skins I already have? Some user renders show her as dark and sallow, so I wonder if she would really be that much better for me? These are the things that impacted my decision to not buy her (yet anyway).

Hmm. I hoped it was clear that a Stonemason set needs a lot more time to make and hence must cost more.

Btw the smile does work with any G8F.

barbult

bluejaunte said:

barbult said:

bluejaunte said:

barbult said:

I'm only inclined to buy an expensive character without separate head and body morphs, if its shape is truly unlike anything I already own, like when George came out was released ("came out" has a new meaning these days). I think George, with his large neck, might be difficult to separate into a head and body that work independently, without looking distorted.

Separate head and body morphs without separate HD morphs? Hmmm... I'd have to evaluate that idea when I see how well the combined HD works with the individual head and body morphs. If it still looks good, I'm OK with it, I think. Thanks for the transparency about your plans for the upcoming character. 

Is Sahel an expensive character with everything included? If so, would you find her less expensive if she was 19.95 with the smile available separately, as with clothes and texture expansions?

She is "expensive", because it is a psychological thing - a threshold above which I feel hesitant to spend money. The same thing happens with things like Stonemason sets. There is no denying the beauty of the items sold, but the release price, even with new release discount, is higher than other things competing for my attention. And soon Sahel goes off introductory pricing, making her almost $30. Look at the Alexandra deal. For about twice the price of Sahel, I got the whole Alexandra pro bundle, 3 additional new items, and 3 older bundles. Daz makes it tough for a PA to compete.

If the smile were sold separately, would work on "any" G8F, and cost under $10, I probably would have put it in my cart without hesitation. Now that may sound stupid to you. For a few dollars more, I could have the whole character with morphs and skin. But I have a lot of G8F characters and morphs. Again, it is a psychological thing. Is she that much different than what i have or could make with the morphs I have and the other young Caucasian skins I already have? Some user renders show her as dark and sallow, so I wonder if she would really be that much better for me? These are the things that impacted my decision to not buy her (yet anyway).

Hmm. I hoped it was clear that a Stonemason set needs a lot more time to make and hence must cost more.

But as a customer, I must decide whether it is unique enough to be worth that price to me, based on what else is available and what I already own. I have quite a few Stonemason sets. They are top notch.  But, the truth is, I don't use many of them very often. Realizing that, I haven't purchased any new ones lately. I am getting better at not being hypnotized by the pretty promos. For example: Do I render "old west" type images - no;  do I really need that - no, etc. I'm sure a new Stonemason or bluejaunte product will come out that sucks me in.  Or there will be a super sale that will price it at a price I can't refuse.

bluejaunte

barbult said:

bluejaunte said:

barbult said:

bluejaunte said:

barbult said:

I'm only inclined to buy an expensive character without separate head and body morphs, if its shape is truly unlike anything I already own, like when George came out was released ("came out" has a new meaning these days). I think George, with his large neck, might be difficult to separate into a head and body that work independently, without looking distorted.

Separate head and body morphs without separate HD morphs? Hmmm... I'd have to evaluate that idea when I see how well the combined HD works with the individual head and body morphs. If it still looks good, I'm OK with it, I think. Thanks for the transparency about your plans for the upcoming character. 

Is Sahel an expensive character with everything included? If so, would you find her less expensive if she was 19.95 with the smile available separately, as with clothes and texture expansions?

She is "expensive", because it is a psychological thing - a threshold above which I feel hesitant to spend money. The same thing happens with things like Stonemason sets. There is no denying the beauty of the items sold, but the release price, even with new release discount, is higher than other things competing for my attention. And soon Sahel goes off introductory pricing, making her almost $30. Look at the Alexandra deal. For about twice the price of Sahel, I got the whole Alexandra pro bundle, 3 additional new items, and 3 older bundles. Daz makes it tough for a PA to compete.

If the smile were sold separately, would work on "any" G8F, and cost under $10, I probably would have put it in my cart without hesitation. Now that may sound stupid to you. For a few dollars more, I could have the whole character with morphs and skin. But I have a lot of G8F characters and morphs. Again, it is a psychological thing. Is she that much different than what i have or could make with the morphs I have and the other young Caucasian skins I already have? Some user renders show her as dark and sallow, so I wonder if she would really be that much better for me? These are the things that impacted my decision to not buy her (yet anyway).

Hmm. I hoped it was clear that a Stonemason set needs a lot more time to make and hence must cost more.

But as a customer, I must decide whether it is unique enough to be worth that price to me, based on what else is available and what I already own. I have quite a few Stonemason sets. They are top notch.  But, the truth is, I don't use many of them very often. Realizing that, I haven't purchased any new ones lately. I am getting better at not being hypnotized by the pretty promos. For example: Do I render "old west" type images - no;  do I really need that - no, etc. I'm sure a new Stonemason or bluejaunte product will come out that sucks me in.  Or there will be a super sale that will price it at a price I can't refuse.

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for sharing.

Taoz

Isn't there a way to save the head morphs separately, as a preset, in DS or some other program?

bluejaunte

Taoz said:

Isn't there a way to save the head morphs separately, as a preset, in DS or some other program?

You mean by yourself? Sure, if you know how. It's definitely not just a press of a button. That would actually be a cool product, head/body separator. Where's zev0 or sickle when you need them 

barbult

Taoz said:

Isn't there a way to save the head morphs separately, as a preset, in DS or some other program?

Josh Darling has a Youtube video about that. Genesis 8 comes with the necessary DFormer weight maps to perform this function. A user can do it just fine. I don't think you can do HD morphs, though.

jardine

the new genesis 8 basics do include a dformer for separating head and body morphs, sounds like.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/178076/genesis-8-female-headsplit-dformer-what-is-it-for

Taoz

barbult said:

Taoz said:

Isn't there a way to save the head morphs separately, as a preset, in DS or some other program?

Josh Darling has a Youtube video about that. Genesis 8 comes with the necessary DFormer weight maps to perform this function. A user can do it just fine. I don't think you can do HD morphs, though.

jardine said:

the new genesis 8 basics do include a dformer for separating head and body morphs, sounds like.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/178076/genesis-8-female-headsplit-dformer-what-is-it-for

Thanks, that looks interesting. But since Sahel is HD I guess it won't work on her?

Artini

I like Sahel a lot, and do not care so much about her separate morphs.

There are many other characters available, that have head and body morphs separated.

fastbike1

@bluejaunte

Threads like this make me really feel for PAs. (Was going to say more but would likely be murderated  moderated).

For myself, you're on my auto-buy list, just like Stonemason. I may not render them all, but I like to support so that future products keep coming.

ChadCrypto

I think she is really unique and worth the price. I can see why she would be more pricey. I got so many characters for G8 and G3 the past 4 months. I'm not  at a shortage of different looks :) 

I look forward to what you got for us next :)

 

 

liquidphantom

Level of detail in this character is truely outstanding. When I saw the first few promo images she just reminded me of Jessica Alba.

Any way I did 4K render, but the gallery resizes the images :(

ANGELREAPER1972

fastbike1 said:

@bluejaunte

Threads like this make me really feel for PAs. (Was going to say more but would likely be murderated  moderated).

For myself, you're on my auto-buy list, just like Stonemason. I may not render them all, but I like to support so that future products keep coming.

glad you said I feel the same way but I get into trouble every time I say something like this

ANGELREAPER1972

LiquidWarehouse said:

Level of detail in this character is truely outstanding. When I saw the first few promo images she just reminded me of Jessica Alba.

Any way I did 4K render, but the gallery resizes the images :(

another stunning image of this lady

ANGELREAPER1972

so I've shared on a few different groups on a few other sites my renders of thgis lady and been really good feed back a lot seem to love and her smile. Don't about the creation process of a character but if you created that could be seperated as some have asked would that reduce the quality of the character slightly compared to a character such as Sahel? Like it would still be high quality achieved just not as high to make it compatible to mix and match with others? 

bluejaunte

ANGELREAPER1972 said:

so I've shared on a few different groups on a few other sites my renders of thgis lady and been really good feed back a lot seem to love and her smile. Don't about the creation process of a character but if you created that could be seperated as some have asked would that reduce the quality of the character slightly compared to a character such as Sahel? Like it would still be high quality achieved just not as high to make it compatible to mix and match with others? 

Thanks! No not really an effect on quality, just a bit more work. I will do it from now on. And it might just bother me enough that I will update Sahel at some point too. 

daveso

is she always smiling?

ALLIEKATBLUE

daveso said:

is she always smiling?

No she isn't always smiling but a custom smile comes with the figure so most renders are just incorporating it.  Here is my render with just a hint of a smile but you can actually have no smile at all.

 

 

fastbike1

She has a custom smile (adjustable) that seems better than any other smile expressions to date, but she can use any of the G8 expressions. The custom smile can also be used on any of the G8F characters. It's all in the product description/

daveso said:

is she always smiling?

 

fastbike1

Sahel is sad that some think she is nothing but a smile.

The more she thinks about it, the more it just makes her mad.

 

She could just scream!

 

3Diva

lol @fastbike1 - Cute and funny renders! 

3Diva

ALLIEKATBLUE said:

daveso said:

is she always smiling?

No she isn't always smiling but a custom smile comes with the figure so most renders are just incorporating it.  Here is my render with just a hint of a smile but you can actually have no smile at all.

 

 

That's adorable. :)

ANGELREAPER1972

 @fastbike1

ANGELREAPER1972

don't think she's happy with me turning her into a bug lady in this test

3Diva

ANGELREAPER1972 said:

don't think she's happy with me turning her into a bug lady in this test

Crikey! That's scary. lol I don't blame her. :P I love the fangs and ears though. :) The arms look pretty stylized, what do you mix in to get that look?