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In MaleM3dia's defense, I think some people are reading things into his posts which he neither said nor implied. He didn't say you can't ask for what you want, he didn't say anyone was a hypocrite for not "putting their money where their mouth is", he didn't say that there's something wrong with not being able to afford something. All he said was that when you aggregate the whole customer base, some things sell a lot better than others, and PAs have to take that into consideration when deciding what mix of products to make.
I recognize that those of us who've been around awhile have heard this before, but I ask that you try not to take it as an attack, just as I ask the PAs who've seen these threads before not take them as attacking the quality of their work.
@havos you partly answered why PAs make more on the intro sales yourself, as you said, stuff on your wishlist, if it gets bought, gets bought when it's more than 50% off which means the PA is making less off it. Thats how things tend to come off my wishlist too, and somehow I doubt there's a lot of people buying wishlist items full price. So even if its only 50-60 percent of purchases in the intro period, that can still represent 70+% of earnings.
That maybe true, but they are not getting the 70% during intro off me, because, like I said, only 20-30% of my money (not 20-30% of items) goes on the new releases.
If an item is priced at say $25.00 call it, "super widget expandable bra". There will be people who must have it, and buy it for the intro price at 30% off.
The rest of the people fall into: "don't have the money right now, will get it when my paycheck is in, to those who think it is fairly nice, and might pick it up in Fast Grab in 6 months or more. "
If the target audience are those who probably "must have it now" during intro, that is where the largest money will be made, UNLESS someone buys it full price at $25.00, but I think that demographic is significantly less.
The challenge as I see it, is, if after all the people who simply must have it have bought it, then the money to be made off it is only going to happen when the price goes down.
I'm curious if there is more money to be had from a larger volume of sales at reduced price versus fewer sales at higher price during intro. Because if the item isn't sold to a lot of people initially then the only way it will be sold is if the cost is reduced cost eventually?
Basically it works like this. On a new item released, first day is the most money that product will ever make. Second day is about half of that, and third day is half of the second day. That is how quickly sales decrease. After a week, sales are reduced to a trickle. Now once it is off intro price, you get the odd sale here and there while it is at full price, then whenever there is a discount on your store via some promotion, you get a boost in sales, but not much because the product is now discounted much higher and the volume of sales is no where as much as release period. Basically any revenue you make will never match the first 4 to 5 days. The rest of the sales the product will get is as a back catalog item. Product shelf life these days are very short due to the sheer amount of new content that is released daily. So basically when we release a new product, we rely on sales during the intro period. With regards to gender specific items, this market is around 80% male customers. Yes it is that one sided. So it's a no brainer female content sells way higher than male content, specially bikinis and lingerie. It is a safer bet and is why most PA's go that route with those content types. I respect those who even attempt to make more unique as well as male content, because unless the product is super amazing, it can really cause you to lose money compared to the time invested in creating it.
Not too long ago I released Fit Control for G2F and recently for G2M. The male version didn't even sell half the amount of the female version within the same time period. That is how significant the difference in gender related products sell, (which is again backed up by the huge amount of males customers in this market). Sometimes, PA's have to weigh up the risks when deciding what type of content to make. Now we cannot always cater for requests, but we do try, and sometimes some of us just feel like making something different. Others, stick to the same type of content because that is what they specialize in.
To add, ethnic skin and characters is another one of those things that just do not make as much money as the usual caucasian types. It is why there are so few. That's just how the market is. It's hard to explain why most of us only make certain types of products, but the only time you will understand is when you are a seller and can see how much revenue each type brings in. Some of us do this full time and cannot afford to take risks, those who do it part time have the luxury to be more flexible and try new things. Hopefully this gives some insight as to how and why certain content is made and sold.
I won't comment on the sheer amount of our products on warez and torrent sites that impact sales. These days they are appearing the same day a product is released 
I have internet for a bit as I been offline working with a client in Italy and heading back to the states so I'll be offline for a bit... so that's why I haven't responded regularly. I think what's interesting about this thread is that, as someone mentioned before, this conversation has happened many times before and the answer is always the same. What has been said as what needs to be done has always been the same, so creating the same type of thread for the 10th time thinking the result will be different when the things people need to do has not been done... well I'm not sure what to say about that.
So no, don't defend me because my words don't need defending. I think we all know what needs to be done if people want more types of clothing in the store, and we all know ever time these threads appear. Increased sales is what needs to be done, and there is no glossing over that... that's the bottom line. You are free to request anything for vendors to make.. but if there are no concrete sales to back it up, your request simply won't be heard. And that answer won't change, regardless of whether someone tries to make you feel better after you hear it. That said, you have options, especially if you don't have the funds. You can, as what has been said before, make your own items, or you can go back in your library and find similar items. Those items can be autofitted, parented, or fixed using DS's tools and cleaned up in any number (and free) modellers. That's what I do when I need things that aren't available; and since I use mostly male figures a lot of clothing hasn't been made because people don't demand those items (or pay for them when they are available), so I've worked around the issue rather than complain about it. And I buy a lot of content and software, most likely way more than most customers so I have a lot of items to work from or rework if they aren't available for the current generation.
In short, my comments aren't meant to hurt anyone's feelings, but people do need to honestly know why things aren't made and the options they have to change that. If their only solution is to get upset and throw a tantrum, then only thing that does is keep the parade of clothing they don't like to keep going because that's what the majority of people have their wallet out for.
For what it's worth, Zev0, Fit Control strikes me as a product that has more of an obvious/necessary impact on female clothes than on male clothes. I'll probably buy them both as a package, but I'm primarily motivated at not having shrink-wrapped boobs.
As for the general topic, it's frustrating to be a customer whose buying habits and interests are not the majority buying habits and interests.
Thankfully, this is one area where Genesis 1&2 works well -- even though people make certain stuff most, the general compatibility means that the smaller-share items have had time to come out. While the compatibility limits transition to G3, there's still thousands of other products. So hey.
Here's an analogy: I used to live in a relatively small, generally conservative (taste wise) town. It was frustrating wanting, say, a good sushi restaurant, or other nice restaurants.
But the fact remains that most of those sorts of places face a bigger obstacle from working class families who are less likely to go, and also with less money to get more expensive/unusual things.
(And now I live in the Bay Area where I can get sushi DELIVERED, so yay!)
So I sympathize with PAs while still being frustrated that the market is what it is. My frustration isn't directed at the PAs, it's just at the situation. Every time I see people post cheesecake, it gets my back up, which isn't fair... but it represents 'oh, right, those are the people shifting the market so strongly toward THAT stuff.'
I want six armed snake women with jetpacks and lemur-eyed psychic warriors with crystalline toes. Disturbingly child-like doe-eyed waifs who are never in danger of drowning dressed in gauze and electrical tape... meh.
Understandable, but it's not just that product. I was just using it as an example. Same trend can be seen on Aging morphs, Growing Up, Skin Overlay etc. In nearly all cases, the same product available for both sexes, the male version sold very poor in comparison to the female one. Anyways, just tried to explain why you see more content for one figure over the other.
I think this repeats the flaws of the "long tail" philosophy; I have yet to see a store with an extensive back catalog not make most of its profits (70 to 90%) in the first two weeks whether it is iTunes, Amazon or your average movie release. There is a bunch of people who buy something the minute it comes out and a drizzle of people who buy things later. Granted, there is a bit of prestige to having an extensive back catalog but it has its trade-offs. There are rumors that the big online music stores sell no copies of roughly 80% of their back catalog in a given year. The price changes are unfortunately a modern day reality. I think to some extent there is a perception problem. We live in an age of the "permanent sale"; people in the past remember things like the big P.A. sales but forget that in the past, there were actually higher average prices. If one dips into the back catalog of this store, people are endless suprised how expensive old products are. They argue that since they are old, the product should get cheaper in time. What is being ignored is that Daz3d didn't raise the price... that was how much it cost if you happened to buy the product during a non-sale period. The problem with the "permanent sale" is that no one has figured out how to do it permanently... even Amazon, who most agree is the king of the "permanent sale", makes most of its money from ancillaries like its servers and subtly alters prices up for people who buy regularly.
I'm not sure what the solution is get the stuff that people say they want to buy but never buy in the critical periods when everyone is deciding if the product is a hit or failure. I try to save up to buy from the vendors who make the products I want (I am the proud owner of a product that Male-M3da pulled fromm the stores due to low sales) especially those people who make something distinctive. I do want to quickly defend Ninive 6 since she is clearly modeled on Cait Blanchett , one of my favorite actresses, and is wonderful for fantasy renders... I'm picky about my elves.
Exactly ... I bought Fit Control for Genesis 2 male because I'm probably not going to bother upgrading to Genesis 3 Male when it does come out... I'm just not worried about having them be as expressive as my female characters. but... When the original Fit Control for the female version came out, we didn't have a Genesis 3... The reality is that Fit Control for Genesis 2 male is that the buyer already knows he's purchasing an outdated product... might as well wait for the Genesis 3 male and get fit control for that. I almost didn't buy it but now I'm focused exclusively on realistic skins with some Zev0 magic when he makes it for Gen3.
Not that it matters that much.. LOL Its good that we can all have a discussion on such matters, don't you think?
I frankly also feel bad for vendors whose products are released during or right after a monster sale. I hit the top tier early in the Summer Sizzle sale, so got 50% "old" and additional 25% off "new." Well, of course I spent all of last month's budget, and already all of this month's budget, because I'm going to stock up on wishlist stuff and "fun to have" stuff (getting 50% off 40 to 60% and even 70%- didn't think twice about getting things I won't use for awhile.) So when something new was released, it was competing with things I was getting 70%-85% (or more) off on- so guess what I bought, no brainer.
So I'm wondering about comparing products on a level playing field when the TIMING of the release has everything to do with how much money we have to spend- whether we want to buy or not. Granted, that wouldn't account for all the male products not being on equal playing field year round, but I know for a fact other sales impact what people can buy when things are initially released.
BTW, IMO it doesn't matter if the men are the main buyers- it depends on how much the men buy versus the women. To have a valid statistics argument, you have to specifically address the number of units purchased (SALES) by the gender and not the number of that gender as buyers. For instance, if one of me (woman) would easily knock ten (or more) dudes out of the equation so far as how many things have been purchased. Although it would be silly not to acknowledge if you have double or triple the number of men buyers, it's stacked in their favor, and I get that's what is implied- more men buyers, it adds up.
Actually DAZ did raise its prices around 6 months ago, when all the Generation 2 base models went up by 5$ and pro packs by 10$. This was not just new figures, the already released figures also went up in price. At around the same time a number of PA items base price also went up a dollar or two.
However I agree with you point about old models looking over priced due to ancient pricing that has not come down. There is a armour set for M1 I quite like, but a 40$ price tag for something this old seems a bit steep. Even when the whole store goes 50% off this item is still a lot more than I am prepared to pay for such old tech.
It wasn't claimed that there were more men, therefore female outfits are expected to sell better - rather, more men was offered as a possible reason for the observed fact that female stuff sells better. I'm not sntirely sure that that would work as an ex0planation - films,other than porn, made for men don't usually have a lot of female cast members for example.
Thank you for sharing this.
I have bought your products, and I do thank you for the work you put into them. You've also been generous with freebies. If you are interested, I'll tell you why I didn't buy Fit Control for Genesis and Genesis 2 Male(s).
It has some great features, especially the undress morphs for pants and underwear. But it doesn't address my major headache with how clothes fit G2M - the flattened breasts. I dont' think there is anything that can be done to address it. If it was able to take care of that issue? I'd have bought it for $10 more than sale price.
I believe it's the problem with the mesh being optimized for female figures and the need for them to have bulk that can be better adjusted for her breasts. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. There are other meaty areas of the body on men that could benefit from being able to adjust them separately from the main body part - glutes, thighs, biceps, tummy - that don't have the individual controls his 'pecs' do.
Definiately a problem for the figure itself. Its something that hits me badly too, and Ive had to be real careful what morphs I use, and the unavoidable ones I've had to postwork. I dont think its just the figures mesh, I think it was also greatly the rigging and the constant exageration the character shapes themselves including particularly the official generation 6 male characters (dispite their rarity). It seems Lee 6 and Darius 6 attempted to improve... but the problem is still there in the figure and for that reason there are distortions that crop up when blending them with earlier Male '6' shapes.
Kind of wish they'd look at improving the weightmaps/rigging on G2's perhaps name them eg. Genesis 2 Male 2.0. But then, many had hoped they'd fix it once and for all when it launched as was quickly seen as a problem.
It's stuff like that that has me reaching for the dynamic outfits. ;)
I guess I'll take this thread as a reminder, again, of how little I represent the average user and just glare at the other users.
I'm not holding my breath that G3M will be better in that area. The focus is on females, it's pretty clear. Unless G3M is a separate mesh with no sharing to G3F, it'll have the same problem.
I admit, I have thought about the male pec issue a bit. It is inescapable especially if M6 is dialed in. It is so frustrating... And I'm not sure if the issue will be resolved with the release of a new figure if it never was fixed for gen 2.
Yeah... And another reason to add to the liklyhood of me skiping the generation entirely. I'm not all doom and gloom about it though, dont get me wrong, I hope to give Generation 7 a chance
but theres just so many cons about it that pushes me away 
I love Genesis 1 and IMO its the only of the series I consider worthy of the 'mega morphing' 'Genesis' name. I was all for Genesis 2, very much like them! dispite the flaws particularly the male suffered and the split. Most of my Human and Near-human characters are now built off them. But I look at what G3 offers and what it breaks, and I think: well, I would have rathered you just updated G2, fix its issues and allow the building of further diverse content.
I am actually working with Gn1 right now for a project, and ironically, I'm looking at this male elf whom seems to have better chest and nearby bends than Genesis 2 Male ever did. Time will tell with G3M I guess, the lower mesh density and lacked texture compatibility however (like with G3F and V7pro I have sitting here), I am not sure Ill have much use for it. But the flip side is, its a neat standalone figure, at least so far the female is
The only work around I have found is using Gen X to transfer G2M character shapes to Genesis and mixing the full body morph with other shapes. But to use that character's skin, you'll need to convert the UV to a Genesis compatible one unless you purchased a utility.
Ya know, that is not a bad idea at all. I have bunch of those UV add ons compliments of slosh :D And yeah I forever use the Map Transfer tool aswell haha
I have no shame in admitting I grew up poor. I was kid #4 with 2 older brothers and 1 older sister. Hand-me-dwon toys with broken/missing component were routine for me. I learned that to have fun, I needed to look at things as more than what there intended for.
The point I wanted to make was that most products have a slow steady climb in price as the cost of living increases.... Daz3d's increases are rare and probably small enough (every few years) that it seems like that they suddenly seem expensive. If you compare this to the price of a cup of coffee, a candy bar, or the price of eggs, the price increases seem very restrained.
I think another thing to keep in mind when it comes to the cost of content is the cost of the software to use it - $0.00.
I rarely buy skimpware, it's not me. And I buy what I can afford to buy when I can. I have bought at full price at intro price and sale price. I can complain about lack of things I wish to buy and I protest by not buying what I don't like. (obviously I am in the minority and I am okay with that)
And yes I understand by numbers it doesn't add up to as much which is why you don't make them very often I get that, but to pretty much say that my 20 means nothing to you because it didn't come in the first few days seems somehow wrong to me.
Thankfully not all PAs have that mentality I have met quite a few that understand that not everyone can buy the instant things comes out. Those are PAs I support and are usually the ones that get full price for a product out of me.
Everyone's feeling of what makes a fair price is not the same. I think much content here is overpriced, especially given the virtual nature of the content.
This is about the time to remind everyone that you are to be directing your comments to the topic and not each other. You are running a thin line of attacking each other and posts are going to end up being removed. Lets keep it civil.
So very true. Everyone differs on what they think something is worth.
Nobody seems to understand that it takes anywhere from 3 to 6 months to make a pack. The process of making a pack is a lot longer then anyone thinks. In the meantime not making any money or very little on residuals from other pack. Are we suppose to sell it for pennies and not make any money to pay for our time. We already only make minimum wage on a some products. It's kind of hard to make a living on that. Not all PA's are able to work outside the house cause they are disabled, like me. We have to make enough money to pay for our time invested in a pack. We understand everyone wants to buy something for as little as possible but remember this is our income and how we pay bills and feed our kids.
Yes that did play an huge part as well. Perception that G2 is now old cannot be avoided lol (even though it's not really), and that does impact sales as well. What can we say, people like the new and shiny lol.
But to counter, they also discount products much higher when there is a sale. These days there is up to 60% or 70% off PA stores. A year ago 50% was the cap normally.