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Sorry if a little OT, but I had no idea there were V4/M4/V6/M6 clones until I saw your post, IceEmpress. Now on searching the store I see http://www.daz3d.com/wear-them-all-autofitting-clones-and-clothing-smoothers-for-genesis-3-female-s
There's no introductory discount. Does this mean I missed the product release, or it's not officially launcged yet? I tried wishlisting it, but it doesn't show in my wishlist and I can't see it in store without searching for it specifically.
I never saw that product before either
Think it's a misfire.. ;)
Aww drat... something to look forward to then? And hopefully sooner rather than later :)
...with regards to G3F, the fact there just isn't enough to work with yet, along with the texture compatibility issue, is what makes the figure of little use for my projects. Maybe a 6 months to a year down the road that will change (depending on what kind of support there is) but for now I haven't even bothered installing it.
I understand it takes time for clothing and morph support to catch up, which is what was nice about the wider versatility of Genesis as one could fall back on a wide variety of older content to work with while new Genesis content was being created. With G2 there was the release of the V4/M4 clones in short order, so one still had access to a fairly extensive wardrobe pretty much out of the box (both Genesis and Gen 4) to work with while again, waiting for new G2 clothing to be released. Zev0 also did a good thing there by releasing the Growing Up morphs and pretty much on the heels of G2F (and G2M when that figure was released) granting additional morph support hat made up for the fact there was no G2 "child " or Teen" shape (and wouldn't be for a number of months to over a year).
With G3F the wardrobe available is limited to just what new G3F products there are and those for G2F. This on top of the fact that older skins are no longer compatible, severely limits what can be done with the new figure until more content and/or additional fit clones (as well as some form of texture conversion tool) are made available In all I see it will require an even bigger investment to get G3 to the level where I can do something meaningful with it than it did for either G2, or Genesis mainly because of the texture issue. We will pretty much have to purchase character sets as wel as whatever resources are made available (like merchant texture packs and skin building/converting plugins) to get additional skins that will work with the figure.
Added to this, product support for G2 content already seems to be slowing down (as did Genesis support after G2 was released ), which granted, is a "natural" part of the process when a completely new figure mesh is released.
Things will move on, that's the way of progress. With regards to those of us who have to scrape and save every zloty we can, it will mean more discerning and thus fewer purchases as this hobby begins to grow out of our means.
Or that can be autofitted to G2F, saved as an asset and then thata sset autofitted to G3F.
Male-M3dia: Sure, I understand the proof is in sales.
But it might be useful to know WHY people are buying one thing or not another, or why sales of some stuff are immediate vs. down the road. I also think it's a mistake to focus too much on immediate sales; after all, PAs are generally in it for the long haul, I imagine.
My understanding is that a very high percentage of the sales revenue for a product are during the intro period -- while some items may continue to sell fairly regularly, it will probably be at a low enough level that it's very unlikely to make up for a bad intro period. So it isn't that they're being shortsighted by focusing on the intro period, that is truly where the item needs to pay off. An established PA may be able to get a sizable revenue stream from a large back catalog of items, but a PA with a smaller catalog really needs those intro sales,
how exactly do you forecast something like that?
StratDragon: Experience?
Fixmypcmike: That's the common wisdom. I'm just wondering how much people just assume it's true or actually have evidence and metrics that it is true. People assume that Daz makes very informed decisions about everything, and, well, it's not uncommon for businesses to pile supposition on assumption on more suppositions.
I don't know exactly what info they have, but I would think that PAs can track sales revenue by product, so they probably do know how much of a product's revenues come during the intro period, and whether that percentage is changing.
By the way, as an aside about packaging... I have found Ninive 6 pack (on sale) was worth it for the dress alone. The Arthurian Dress is, obviously, great for fantasy (which I do a bunch), and it conforms and morphs VERY well. The other extras are also useful.
The actual Ninive 6 figure and skin? Meh.
So, yeah, PAs, good bundles are great. ;)
Selling more during intro probably makes sense since that is when the item is on steeper discount. After the discount wears off, people who are unwilling at the intro price will be even more unwilling to buy it when it becomes full price- until a very steep sale is made later on.
Also, the longer the PA does not have a sale, the more likely an similar item which suits the user just as well will be introduced.
+ 1
to true
I think there is also the impulse of many people to buy something new and shiny.
There are also the incentive sales. Buy x, to receive a discount on y, that account for people buying more when it is first introduced.
There are also the incentive sales. Buy x, to receive a discount on y, that account for people buying more when it is first introduced.
Yeah, but either those people have a gianormous wishlist (I have like 550, but a significant number of those-- probably 100 to 150-- are just "maybe" items), or they buy items that they have no use for just to get the discount. I almost never go for these deals because the discount is rarely good enough to offset the price of the new shiny item, while I never go for the "get 2 shiny items for 40% off, 3 or more for 50% off" because there are never 3 items in that category that I want (sole exception being March Madness where I can get "still mad" items)
MaleM3dia, is what you have stated true for all products? I mean, characters definitely I would assume taper off after the intro price-- but what about clothing and utilities? (any idea?)
While certainly I would imagine that the PoseBuilder, GenX, and Supersuit sales would taper off considerably after the intro price, they nonetheless seem like items that would be incredibly popular for years to come.
I, for one, just have a difficult time wrapping my head around the idea that only intro sales matter-- as if the price tapers off by THAT HUGE of a degree. (But again, like I said, I can picture non-keystone character sales tapering off to a much greater degree than clothing and plug-ins) Or is it that PAs get a larger % of the proceeds during the intro?
Also, this is just constructive criticism/advice and a suggestion-- when talking to/criticizing customers, you sometimes come across-- in your first few posts in as somewhat callous, mildly hostile, and as if you're sitting atop an ivory tower. This thread is a perfect example of that. (Your initial posts in the UV complaint thread is another good example) Now, while I have no proof that you aren't indeed that way, my assumption (based on your later posts/clarifications) is that these aformentioned initial posts simply lack a sufficient explanation of what you actually mean.
Or, perhaps there is some borderline hostility borne out of frustration over the uninformed complaints-- which is perfectly understandable (hell, we all know I've done exponentially worse) Alternatively, perhaps clarifying your statements simply slips your mind-- if so, then that's also understandable-- I'm certainly guilty of that-- unintentional vagueness on my part which could be taken the wrong way-- and it gets me into all sorts of trouble.
Some of your initial statements in threads like this one or the UV complaint one come across as saying basically things like "well, if you don't want to use my product as-is out-of-the-box, then I don't want you buying it" or more commonly "if you don't buy it during the intro, then you are not supporting the PA or the product" or that "you have no excuse for not purchasing the product during intro"
Whereas your later posts usually clarify that this is not what you meant (even if only subtlely)
Initial comments in a thread DO matter (believe me, I know from experience)
This is where a lot of the customer hostility you see in these threads comes from. Mind you I'm not defending everything that the customers in this or similar threads say and do (and I've criticized some of it like a broken record) Those initial posts by you also sometimes lead to undeserved forumite customer hostility towards other PAs (which in some cases is due to poor wording on their end-- i.e. generalized statements, by said customers)
Nothing I am saying in this post is out of hostility, anger, or contempt-- nor is it a personal attack-- this is purely constructive criticism and advice.
Likewise, I ask fellow customers in these forums not to generalize or make generalized statements-- and please don't pile onto this post -- we don't need a whole topic derailing with a bunch of people ganging up on a PA, nor do we need another thread that spirals out of control into a hostility foodfight. What I have said is all that needs to be said on this (if you want to say you agree or disagree with what I've said in this post, fine, but don't add a bunch of stuff to it, and please, PLEASE don't quote the ENTIRE wall 'o text of China)
And mods/admins, I'm hoping you don't close this thread because of me-- none of this is a personal attack, I'm merely telling MaleM3dia how his statements come across sometimes. I felt it best to address publicly so other forumites (PA and non) could read this same advice.
Sometimes the buy several get discount work for me when the items are in genre I use... Like Sci-fi. They usually for some reason have a sci-fi release/male item sale where they release multiple sets I will actually buy at once.
Most of the time, though there aren't enough items in a group to trigger a discount for me.
...I know of more than a few member here who do that.
Alas I am not one.
...ahh what I call a "BOGO-ised" sale. I tend steer clear of these unless the "trigger" item is something that fits with the type of work I do and the linked items include something I actualy need.
About the "intro period"...
The "Opening two week intro sale" meaning most of the item's lifetime sales applies to almost every kind of product that can be made. An item will make about 70% - 90% of its lifetime sales in that period, unless it is completely and utterly independant of an existing figure, such as props or vehicles or creatures. Even then, well over 50% of its lifetime sales are usually made in the two week intro, barring unusal or bizarre circumstances, or absolute universal appeal (such as Stonemason's Urban Sprawl sets). My critters have rarely maintained constant back catalogue sales, and even then it's a trickle compared to the flood of the intro period.
And as for wishlists?
At this time, PA's cannot see how many people have wishlisted our items. We have no idea how many people have, so this number simply does not exist to us. Wishlist it during the intro sale? We have no way of knowing. Also, and this MIGHT not count for the people reading this, but in the old store, when we COULD see how many people wishlisted an item, and it seemed like that number never went down except marginally during March Madness or the PA Sale. Yes, perhaps some people did add an item to their wishlists, but we never saw evidence of that, and only saw more people adding it to the wishlist. Knee-jerk wishlisting doesn't always help, especially during the intro period.
One final note:
A little over a month from now is the PA Sale. Who knows what you might find then? :D
Well, for what it's worth, Valandar, I have a bunch of your critters on my wishlist. Though admittedly 'critters' are low on my priority list.
It is a business, agree totally. But I think when customers see businesses increase their prices up, up, up- the initial sales are not going to be a good representation of what customers want. Daz is pricing people out of introductory sales. That 30% might be only 20% off the old prices. If you are basing what you do on the business model that intial sales will show what that product will bring in for the long haul or show what will sell well, aka, what people want- then IMO that may not work as well as PAs think it does. You don't KNOW who didn't buy due to the higher price. How many of us were there? How much you did NOT make should be as important to consider as what you DID. To use the example- while you enter that nightclub with your friends- the business down the street rakes in the rest of the would-be customers and builds a loyal following...which probably keeps expanding.
Does anybody know why this is for certain?
I would have thought that new customers who do not yet have it and were not around for the intro sale would be buying it at roughly the same rate as old customers, thus making two weeks of sales just a miniscule fraction of the sale percentages compared to sales throughout the rest of time minus those two weeks.
Are there very few new customers? Or do most products get "old" and become less desireable somehow? (I do see this in some cases, for example accessories for older figures, or due to changing file formats or software, etc., and I do see some really old products that are fine but the promo isn't as flashy as they are now, but would have thought there were plenty of products for which aging doesn't apply.) Or do old products just get buried out of sight under new products so nobody can find them or they aren't immediately on customer's minds the way newly advertised products are? Or something else? I'm quite curious.
Whilst I believe it when I am told that the majority of sales occur in the intro period, I am surprised that the percentage is as high as 70-90% of lifetime sales. I can only speak for myself, but I rarely buy during the intro period, prefering to wait until an item is at 50%, 60% or more off and/or I can combine it with the PC+ 6$ PA coupon (which does not work on new releases). I am by no means poor, spending 1000 or more yearly, it is just that I am patient enough to wait the 2-3 months for a better price. I have bought new items to trigger better discounts (like I got V7 for the 7% off gift cards and steep discounts on other items). I can understand people buying immediately when something completely different comes along that they have an immediate need for, but if it is just another character or a dress that is slightly different from others, I think it is possible to wait. I would say 20-30% max of my money goes on new releases.
I agree with Novica that intro prices have gone up which means fewer sales from me during the initial sale window. I have bought a lot of stuff here at DAZ. Over 3000 items. I'm not a big spender, but I would say I buy the things I like usually and usually get it within the year.
I appreciate Male M3dia for expressing their opinion and explaining how some, or many, of the PAs operate. Let's keep it civil please- on both sides.
I don't think there is anything worng with posting about what you want. Unless I'm mistaken, you've been here for years like me. I don't think I've ever seen you cross the line from "These are the things I want to buy" and "You PAs need to stop making all this skimpwear I don't want and make things that impress me."
@dawaterrat For me, at least, its not that you can't say something like "I wish there were more male clothes" plenty of people do, hell, male-m3dia has a much higher proportion of male items in his store, so he woud probably agree with that. its just when folks say "why isn't there more male clothing?" or "why is there so much skimp wear?" that's the answer. It doesn't sell as well. It was the answer the last time a thread like this popped up. and the time before that, and the time... well you get it. It will bee the answer the next 50 times some variation of this thread pops up, because, as far as I can tell a lot of the forumites refuse to believe it. And every thread we get people saying "well I might buy male stuff", like that is somehow proof of something. PAs get to see how much all their items sell, if someone like Male-m3dia says his female stuff sells better than his male stuf I believe him, If all the PAs are saying it, your 2 options are its true or Daz is run by the illuminati.
There's also an element that these threads tend to be overwhemingly negative, I mean the intro post basically implies that the PAs dont know how to make clothes. I get that some of the people here just want to vent (I realy do I've gone on some nice I want David6 rants myself in my time on the forums) but it does end up with both sides on the defensive and feeling like the other side is attacking them personally.
@havos you partly answered why PAs make more on the intro sales yourself, as you said, stuff on your wishlist, if it gets bought, gets bought when it's more than 50% off which means the PA is making less off it. Thats how things tend to come off my wishlist too, and somehow I doubt there's a lot of people buying wishlist items full price. So even if its only 50-60 percent of purchases in the intro period, that can still represent 70+% of earnings.
I've spoken up in other "enough with the skimpwear" threads over the years. I wasn't bothering with this one because G3 is new, and Skimpwear is always common with new girls. Then, I got upset because I really, really do want to support Arki's Rune outfit, and a bunch of other non-skimpwear items (usually guystuff), but I can't. And seeing that not buying things we ask for in the forums *again* being called out as hypocracy - even though there are often very good reasons why people can't always do that - just got to be too much.
I know that it's a business, and that PA's make what sells. But it really hurts to be included in accusations of not "putting our money where our mouth is" when we don't have the money in the first place. And yes, saying "well, if you can't afford to buy X in it's intro period, it doesn't count" comes across as saying "You don't actually want this item." And it happens again, and again, and again. Any time any thread asking for things that are a smaller sub-market of the 3D market picks up steam, especially if some people in the thread are also venting about not liking what *does* sell well, someone (or several someones) comes along and verbally clobers the thread with terse, abrasive reminders that our voice isn't as strong as the forums lead us to believe. Most of us who have been here a while know that Guystuff doesn't have nearly the market of Girlsuff, and that Skimpwear outsells practical. We don't need to be reminded of it in practically every single thread on the subject. And after a while, that constant, repetitive clobering gets frustrating, especially if it's percieved as condecending. That may be a limitiation of the medium, and yes, there are people who could use a reminder, and people who are new who haven't had it pounded into their heads a dozen and one times, but it doesn't keep it from aggravating the situation.