Encryption discussions go here

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  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited January 2016

    You can still modify textures that way.  I would recommend saving your modified texture outside of the cloud folder, but you should still be able to browse to the texture location from the Surfaces pane.

    ETA:  The default categories that the content appears in don't use vendor names AFAIK.

    Post edited by Fixmypcmike on
  • Excellent, and thanks.  I just wanted to check if that was just me mis-reading the description of the method.

     

    Fixmypcmike: Yeah, the modified textures are always stored in my project-specific folders, that way if I ever need to move it to another PC / Recover from a disaster, I have it locally to the project.

     

    I imagine the categories don't use vendor names, but I have avoided Smart content like the plague, mostly because I still use a lot of content that predates it, or comes from outside DS.  In the interest of not having to remember to do things one way for a small portion of my content, I use the Content Library instead.  I know it's a preference.  Also a lot of shaders seem to get really annoying in the smart content tab, since they're not set up right for what products they work on, and are almost always in Vendor folders on the Content Library, and I reorder them based on what they actually apply to.  Odds are good that if I got categorization working, I'd be able to adjust, more just not looking forward to doing that for a lot of old content.

     

    Either way, thanks for the clarification (Both Fixmypcmike and mjc1016).  The manual texture edits were my main concern, and I also see that it looks like you can still make old-style links in a later build which would meet my needs as far as the vanity folders in Content Library.

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 10,980

    Well, 4.9 is released and already there are three new items that are Connect Only.  That was fast!

    Dana

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    DanaTA said:

    Well, 4.9 is released and already there are three new items that are Connect Only.  That was fast!

    Dana

    It's a promotion, get them free to encourage people to at least try out Connect.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 7,928
    edited January 2016
    DanaTA said:

    Well, 4.9 is released and already there are three new items that are Connect Only.  That was fast!

    Dana

    It's a promotion, get them free to encourage people to at least try out Connect.

    Not going to happen here.

    And the no plans sure didn't last long, then again, we expected that.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • Tell ya what, guys. I've been using Studio for a very long time, since an iteration of Version 1. I've seen a lot of things come and go in 9 years. Over that time, I have developed my own workflow, and use many different applications to keep my workflow happy. Studio is the center of it all. Mainly I work in Studio, GIMP, and Blender. I have reached a point where I render complete images for pay, and morph files for pay. At this time, my figure of choice happens to be V4. I purposely avoided Genesis and all its iterations because of the lack of content compared to the 4th Gen figures, lack of real compatibility with Poser (some of my customers use Poser exclusively), and this ridiculous need now of having to upgrade an iteration of Genesis and have to buy a whole slew of new content to keep up with what you've been doing with the previous iteration.

    And now, DAZ is rolling out DRM content. Studio is slowly developing its own walled garden. By doing this, yes you are protecting content that has been developed by hard-working vendors. Yes, you will have a captive audience. But for those professionals who now not only need decrypted access to our assets, but must now conform to DAZ Studio's file hierarchy for newly-purchased Connect content for it to work properly, you are in fact punishing us. I realize that your current business model is for the hobbyist renderphile who cares not where content comes from and has no need for specialized content. So Studio will one day soon become another Garry's Mod or Sims 4.

    I am satisfied that all my current content will still work within Studio. I am not satisfied that Studio has to phone home if I want Connect content. But that is actually ok, because I won't be buying any of that content. I only use DIM for software upgrades now, and Smart Content went out the window years ago; it never, ever worked right for me. I have a hard drive dedicated to my 3-D work, much like many professionals, and all of this content is sorted in the way that is best for me. Physically sorted, so that I can easily drill down to the folders where I need to access files to perform modifications, map UVs, customize textures, apply merchant resources, convert 3-D assets to conform to different figures, and inject morphs. I have been slowly teaching myself things like how to model, UV map, bone and rig models. This latest move by DAZ is an eye-opener. Now is a very good time for me to become self-sufficient. I recently cancelled my Premium membership via Paypal, because cancelling here on the DAZ site apparently makes no difference. I have been missing out on coupons, because most of the V4 content I want has already been purchased, and I have no interest in Genesis at this time. People still ask me which version of Genesis I use whenthey see my work, and are surprised when I tell them the figure is Victoria 4.2!

    DAZ, as a company, is within its right to introduce encryption, and for right now it is not even close to being draconian. But DAZ has promised me many things, and turned its back on those promises. So I just cannot trust what has been said here in an official capacity. Studio has been a fantastic tool for me, but I very much can see the day, not too far from now, where the application will only be usable with DAZ-exclusive content. By then, it will be gimped beyond belief to anyone even remotely considering 3-D art to be a career. DAZ said that Genesis is "the only figure you will ever need", only to release a second and third generation of that figure. Yes, there is some backward compatibility, if you throw enough money at it. But guys, that is a losing business model. Three figure bases in three years?? I am no fool.

    Toodles. I'll be seeing y'all in Blender later on down the road. And it's a shame, because I have a fantastic jewelry set I modeled in Blender, rigged in Studio, and packaged for consumption in Studio. I briefly considered submitting it to DAZ for sale in the store. But not now. I'll continue to utilize such resource sites as Renderosity, Content Paradise, RuntimeDNA, and Turbosquid. Yep, Turbosquid. No upgrade for me, to 4.9, I'll stick with 4.8 until there is a feature that I absolutely need. Heck, I have 4.6, 4.7 and 4.8 installed alongside each other. I learned from the DS3A days. Remember that fiasco? Anyway, DAZ can do whatever it wants, because Studio is merely a tool, and when that tool breaks, I'll go get myself another tool.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,925

    I'm not really concerned about the offer to get those free connect items.

    I am super interested in what tomorrow's new releases will be, though~

  • jpb06tjpb06t Posts: 272

    @Pinspotter: waiting for you in the real land of the free, FOSS-landia laugh. Now, if only MakeHuman did provide quality content, we all could kiss bye bye to both DAZ and SmithMicro.

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,323

    Wow.  So much for "...there are no current plans for Connect-only content at this time...." that we kept asking about.  4.9 goes up, and lo and behold, Connect-only content.

     

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,701
    edited January 2016

    Before installing 4.9 and taking advantage of the Connect Only offer (the $49 offer that includes Lynsey - that skin looks great!), could somebody please point me in the direction of where I could view the EULA? Thanks in advance.

    - Greg

    Post edited by algovincian on
  • jrlaudiojrlaudio Posts: 21
    edited January 2016

    DAZ should look at the bigger picture. Since many of the people using DAZ are probably non-professional, and since DAZ does market for that demographic, how many people are going to read all this stuff and simply go, "Er ... ummm ... I have no idea what this all means (DRM, encryption)" and then due to uncertainties not buy into the product at all? You know ... customer perception?

    When DAZ comes out and talks about a "poison pill just in case they go out of business", what does that really say to average potential buyers? It says ... buying from us now means your money and investment carries a risk ... so many (if not most) average people will just simply move on. After all, DAZ may not actually have a poison pill and there is no assurance to a consumer any company will concern itself with such things if it is "insolvent". At least that would be the perception at the time of purchase, poison pill being true or not. And in retail ... perception is everything, is it not?

    Just a thought ...

    Post edited by jrlaudio on
  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 767
    hphoenix said:

    Wow.  So much for "...there are no current plans for Connect-only content at this time...." that we kept asking about.  4.9 goes up, and lo and behold, Connect-only content.

    Yeah, I know.  Not a way to make us feel as if the company cares at all about its customers

     

    hphoenix said:

     

     

  • Gr00vusGr00vus Posts: 263

    To DAZ and the PAs - I will never buy any 3D art related product from this store or anywhere else that is encumbered with digital restriction managment - what you're calling encryption here. If platinum club products are only offered with digital restriction management, I will cancel my platinum club membership.

  • Q1701Q1701 Posts: 3
    edited January 2016

    http://www.daz3d.com/eula

    DAZ_Jon said:

    ...

    • Encryption will require authenticating to the Daz Connect servers at a minimum of once per computer to get your personal key. We currently don't have an offline method for getting your keys, but is something we will be discussing and see if there is a good method that we can do for smaller patch releases beyond the initial release.
    • There will be an offline mode to install Daz Connect content. It involves downloading a Product Authorization file and a Daz Connect Package, putting it in a place Studio knows about it (will be explained in future documentation), and then Studio processing it at either start up or when triggered by a command (still being worked out).
    • Daz 3D has a planned "fail safe" or "poison pill" that will either unlock all your content or release all the content in unencrypted ways in the event Daz 3D is no longer solvent. The executive team at Daz has confirmed this and we will be updating our EULA to reflect that at the point that we release Studio 4.9 for public release. 
    • All previously released content will always be available unencrypted. We know that its already out there, encrypting it now doesn't buy anything. Because of that, either in the public release or first patch we will be making it so that encryption of products during the install through Daz Connect is a per product thing. So content that is already unencrypted will stay that way once we get it working, even when installed through Daz Connect. Again, this might not be in the first release, but definitely the first patch release shortly after at the latest.
    • Exporting content will always be there and not hampered in any way. This, we feel, isn't a fast and easy way around the encryption as someone won't get the original product that way, but a lossy derivative of it. Depending on the format for export, you potentially lose rigging, skinning, JCMs, or other things that make it an inferior product.
    • There are no current products planned for release as Daz Connect only, meaning only available encrypted. We don’t have a firm date on when 4.9 is going to ship because we’re still in Beta. It will definitely happen though, and the rate it happens is going to be dependent on a number of factors we’ll keep an eye on to make the transition as smooth as possible.
    • You do not need to use Daz Connect or encryption with 4.9. It is completely optional for use of your current content. There will be a requirement for it when Daz Connect only content is released, however acquisition and use of that content is not required.

    Hm,

    I looked at the EUA http://www.daz3d.com/eula and could find nothing about

    ""fail safe" or "poison pill" that will either unlock all your content or release all the content in unencrypted ways in the event Daz 3D is no longer solvent. The executive team at Daz has confirmed this and we will be updating our EULA to reflect that at the point that we release Studio 4.9 for public release."  

    This is essential.  When I think of all the content I have purchased (translation: money spent) from daz3d over the years the idea that going forward content, or the use of it, can be lost if daz3d goes out of business (or possibly even if it changes corporate hands/ownership) is sickening.  This is not an issue you let linger until it is too late.  This is an issue you fix quickly, verify, certify and maintain through all future iterations/changes of the software and content.  The possibility of not being able to access, at will, purchased content is an unacceptable investment risk that the intelligent customer will not tolerate.  Translation to daz3d: hundreds of thousands of dollars of lost revenue (going forward) if customers simply ignore encrypted content that poses an investment risk.

    I also wish the product pages accurately and helpfully indicated the oldest version of Daz Studio compatible with the advertised content.  When I go to buy software it is helpful to know not just the latest version of compatible operating systems but also the earliest (for example: it works with version 10, great but does it work with 7).  

    I respectfully disagree with the idea that daz3d content is a niche market that will better tolerate encryption.  The market is the 3D market used by professionals and hobbyist.  Yes, professionals use daz3d content in profesional applications.  Tinker too much with your paying customers' ability to use the content with ease and they may simply go elsewhere for character content that is simple to download and use in file formats (obj, fbx, u3d or point cloud) that can be accessed by any 3d program (or free programs like Blender) and frankly at similar prices (at places like Turbosquid.com. 3DOcean, cgtrader, cookiemarket, gumroad, just to name a few ).  It is true that a lot of content offered at other places is limited (not rigged, posed, clothed, textured, etc).  But, these are smaller issues to overcome with advancements in cloth sim/garment design software, texturing and stand alone posing/sculpting/morphing and mocap/auto rigging applications.  The point, please do not destroy ease of use and content portability to combat piracy.  It would be throwing out the baby with the bath water.  Thieves will always be there but your paying customers have a widening selection of viable alternatives.  Don't make daz studio and 3d content anathema to creativity and productivity.  Translation: the more hoops I have to jump before I can use youir products the way I choose, the less likely I'll buy them.  Time between inspiration and actual creativity is critical to productivity (thinking about flexible/adaptible/agile workflow options).  

    Post edited by Q1701 on
  •  I recently cancelled my Premium membership via Paypal, because cancelling here on the DAZ site apparently makes no difference.

    Thanks for reminding me Pinspotter.

  • dbdigital2dbdigital2 Posts: 256
    edited January 2016

    Well this hit me between the eyes today.  I see this discussion is from back in Nov but I wasn't looking at the beta (too many other projects going on at the time).  I wish to say that one of the main reasons I purchased content from  Daz was the ability to use the content the way I wanted/needed and EDIT/customize it.  No DRM/Encryption.  I have been bitten many times in the past with companies promising everything would be fine only for me to loose the content I paid for (ebooks, autio files etc etc).  I don't do DRM, so it looks like Studio and I might be parting ways soon.  I never thought I would be looking at poser, but today, I am.  I didn't like Genesis 3 and haven't bought one thing for it, and now this.  Well I certainly won't purchase anything with the encryption and I doubt I will install Studio 4.9, which isn't good in several aspects.

    Daz is shooting itself in the foot in several ways with this.  And in the end it won't help against piracy.  Pirates have cracked EVERY protection method there is, for the simple reason that if the key is read by the host machine at any point (which it has to do to use the content) then the pirate can get it, and crack everything.  There is little point in this other than driving away paying customers that have had very BAD experiences with lies from other companies that have went down a similar path.  The idea of a "poison pill" is a nice promise, but that is all it is a promise, and as I said, I have been bitten by many failed promises from other companies so sorry I can't trust yours.  I would suggest that everyone go somewhere else, purchasing DRM content only encourages more DRM.  And there are companies which are doing very well without doing DRM  GOG.com for example (and where I purchase all my games instead of Steam for the same reason...DRM)

    It is a really sad day here for me.  I feel like one of my best friends died.

     

    Post edited by dbdigital2 on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,929
    Q1701 said:

    I also wish the product pages accurately and helpfully indicated the oldest version of Daz Studio compatible with the advertised content.  When I go to buy software it is helpful to know not just the latest version of compatible operating systems but also the earliest (for example: it works with version 10, great but does it work with 7). 

    Just looking at the some recent products and they all say DS 4.9 compatible...which I'm still working out if I want to install it.

    http://www.daz3d.com/rebellious-teen-outfit-for-genesis-3-female-s

    http://www.daz3d.com/collective3d-portrait-vignettes-contemporary-4

    http://www.daz3d.com/tadel-riad

    http://www.daz3d.com/yoga-for-genesis-3-female-s

    Is this correct? Or will they still work in DS4.8? It's my understanding that the shaders have changed slightly between 4.8 and 4.9 but one of these files is poses. Shouldn't it read compatible with a version of Daz that can use Genesis3?

    I'm feeling very confused right now...

  • I can say for sure that the Collective 3D Portrait Vignettes Contemporary 4 (whew!) works fine in 4.8.  I don't have the others.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,925
    Pendraia said:
    Q1701 said:

    I also wish the product pages accurately and helpfully indicated the oldest version of Daz Studio compatible with the advertised content.  When I go to buy software it is helpful to know not just the latest version of compatible operating systems but also the earliest (for example: it works with version 10, great but does it work with 7). 

    Just looking at the some recent products and they all say DS 4.9 compatible...which I'm still working out if I want to install it.

    http://www.daz3d.com/rebellious-teen-outfit-for-genesis-3-female-s

    http://www.daz3d.com/collective3d-portrait-vignettes-contemporary-4

    http://www.daz3d.com/tadel-riad

    http://www.daz3d.com/yoga-for-genesis-3-female-s

    Is this correct? Or will they still work in DS4.8? It's my understanding that the shaders have changed slightly between 4.8 and 4.9 but one of these files is poses. Shouldn't it read compatible with a version of Daz that can use Genesis3?

    I'm feeling very confused right now...

    Pretty much everything now has that crap (http://www.daz3d.com/platinum-cocktail-for-genesis-2-females example.)

    I wouldn't trust anything the store page says right now in regards to knowing which products have the updated shaders, which don't, etc.

  • Well, I have the Platinum Cocktail Dress for G2F, and I haven't seen any updates for it, FWIW.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301

    The compatible software field always displays the current general release.

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,232
    Pendraia said:

    Just looking at the some recent products and they all say DS 4.9 compatible...

    Note that this bit of the product pages doesn't say 4.9 because that item was made for 4.9 — it says that because 4.9 is now the current release version. All it means is that the item was made for some version of D|S after 4.5, which is when the current file format was introduced. The system works fairly well, but it does confuse people regularly, and I'm always waiting for the one time when something using a feature in D|S4.5 or 4.6 no longer works in the new version. There might be fireworks, here in the forums if not anywhere else.

  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 1,872
    edited January 2016
    hphoenix said:

    Wow.  So much for "...there are no current plans for Connect-only content at this time...." that we kept asking about.  4.9 goes up, and lo and behold, Connect-only content.

     

    I brought those weasle words up before, the "no current plans" bit, only to be told by a DAZ rep that it would be stupid to make absolute statements.

    I guess so, especially if you were indeed planning to do it, but wanted to cover yourself later by saying "But we never promisssssed..."

    Now if we can just get a checkbox that says "Don't show DazRM items" so that I don't waste my time looking at items that I will never buy.

    $5000.00 spent in two years. Thank goodness that there are other sites that will take my money!

    Post edited by Petercat on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,929
    edited January 2016

    So what you're all saying is I can't trust what is written on the product page...because it will most likely work in earlier versions...so how will I know whether it will or won't work and if I buy it to try can I still get a 30 day refund if it doesn't work? I would think having that on the product page would mean that's just my bad luck? Or does it? Most places will list all the versions a product works with...not just the most recent version.

    Post edited by Pendraia on
  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301

    You can of course return it within 30 days, the Compatible Software field has been like this for several years now.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,925
    edited January 2016

    You can of course return it within 30 days, the Compatible Software field has been like this for several years now.

    The fact that it's been like that for a long time doesn't actually make it any more okay. I get that it's easier for support if everyone is using the same version, but it rarely winds up being the reality for various reasons in any sort of software.

     

    From what I recall they said that there were no plans for all content to become encryption only, not that none would ever exist. Obviously there would be some coming if they're making the system.

    That said I'm not trawling through a billion beta threads looking for the quote so they can defend themselves if they want to. 

    Post edited by lx on
  • MorpheonMorpheon Posts: 738
    Petercat said:
    Now if we can just get a checkbox that says "Don't show DazRM items" so that I don't waste my time looking at items that I will never buy.

    I asked that exact same question in another thread a few hours ago and still haven't received an answer to it. I'm not holding my breath over it, either: the LAST thing DAZ wants is to give people the option of excluding DAZ Connect content -- that'd scuttle their plans PDQ.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,925

    The other thing that bugs me is that a product's store page clearly shows if it is DRM only, but the actual menu doesn't (ie where there are Originals and PC+ icons on items.) Loading a page only to find out it's a thing I don't want kind of sucks.

  • ChromaDrakeChromaDrake Posts: 288
    edited January 2016

    I do like DAZ as a product and I've seen some DRMs that work but I've seen more that have been terrible disasters.   I'll hold off on upgrading to 4.9 and this new connect content until it becomes clearer which one this will be. 

    In the meantime, the act of buying products on the website actually manages to get more complicated with yet another category for products along with the mysteriously changing pricing and esoteric sales rules. 

    Post edited by ChromaDrake on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,929

    You can of course return it within 30 days, the Compatible Software field has been like this for several years now.

    thanks Mike...I haven't bought as much here the last couple of years as I normally update DS I  hadn't noticed but it is very frustrating and will make me buy less if I have to ask or have the probability of having to return an item. In 10 years of buying stuff here I have probably returned less than 5 items and I have an account with over 4000 items in it. 

     

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