Encryption discussions go here

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  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,180
    Strixowl said:
    sapat said:

    Yep, Lynsey is a totally awesome character with great MU and lip colors, and now I can't download her cuz I don't want to be forced into a different version of a program than what I prefer to use.  I don't want to be controlled by a higer authority and told I can't have access to products unless I get with the program.

    I don't use DIM....I don't use Smart Content, and don't use many of the other 'controlling' features that Daz wants me to use.

    How about I just offer to pay for her like any other character I buy here and can do my preferred manual download?

    Whatever..........nono

    EXACTLY !! I just wanna make art. Not spend so much time dealing with all this crazy stuff we don't need. Just getting over Windows 10 now this.

    Heh-heh. Apples and oranges, my friend. Remember, Microsquiff has been in the business of ignoring, abusing and generally pissing off (and on) it's customers for decades. Daz is just beginning.

    Comparing Daz to Microsquiff over abusive customer relations is like putting a puppy in a dogfight ring with a full grown dog.

    Daz needs more time mature as a customer relations ogre.

  • Gr00vusGr00vus Posts: 310
    edited January 2016

    They've added a tag to the "Install Types". It reads "Encrypted Daz Connect". If you see this in the "Install Types" information on the product page, it means the product is DRM encumbered (and can only be retrieved via connect). For example, the recently released "Old Warehouse Room" and "Classic Trenchcoat" both have this tag - which means I won't be buying them, though they are both products I'd definitely have wishlisted and probably purchased (especially the trenchcoat package) if they were not DRM encumbered. So, that's about $20, maybe more, that DAZ and the PAs won't be getting from me due to DRM.

    Q1701 said:

    if I want to avoid purchasing DRM products how am I to distinguish them from non-DRM products (especially a year from now or later when I've forgotten when things were released).

     

    Post edited by Gr00vus on
  • NathNath Posts: 1,928
    Gr00vus said:

    They've added a tag to the "Install Types". It reads "Encrypted Daz Connect". If you see this in the "Install Types" information on the product page, it means the product is DRM encumbered (and can only be retrieved via connect). For example, the recently released "Old Warehouse Room" and "Classic Trenchcoat" both have this tag - which means I won't be buying them, though they are both products I'd definitely have wishlisted and probably purchased (especially the trenchcoat package) if they were not DRM encumbered. So, that's about $20, maybe more, that DAZ and the PAs won't be getting from me due to DRM.

    Q1701 said:

    if I want to avoid purchasing DRM products how am I to distinguish them from non-DRM products (especially a year from now or later when I've forgotten when things were released).

     

    And I can add to that that the Detective Poses and Props suddenly turned Connect Only in the time between me checking out and attempting to download, so that's a returned item, as I don't do Connect Only. Oh well...

  • Gr00vusGr00vus Posts: 310
    edited January 2016

    Thanks for the heads up there, I just removed that from my wish list too as it's not just connect only, it's now Encrypted Daz Content (DRM encumbered). I'm sure I can find most of that stuff elsewhere. More lost money for DAZ/DAZ PAs due to DRM. 

    Nath said:
    Gr00vus said:

    They've added a tag to the "Install Types". It reads "Encrypted Daz Connect". If you see this in the "Install Types" information on the product page, it means the product is DRM encumbered (and can only be retrieved via connect). For example, the recently released "Old Warehouse Room" and "Classic Trenchcoat" both have this tag - which means I won't be buying them, though they are both products I'd definitely have wishlisted and probably purchased (especially the trenchcoat package) if they were not DRM encumbered. So, that's about $20, maybe more, that DAZ and the PAs won't be getting from me due to DRM.

    Q1701 said:

    if I want to avoid purchasing DRM products how am I to distinguish them from non-DRM products (especially a year from now or later when I've forgotten when things were released).

     

    And I can add to that that the Detective Poses and Props suddenly turned Connect Only in the time between me checking out and attempting to download, so that's a returned item, as I don't do Connect Only. Oh well...

     

    Post edited by Gr00vus on
  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,325
    edited January 2016
    Gr00vus said:

    Thanks for the heads up there, I just removed that from my wish list too as it's not just connect only, it's now Encrypted Daz Content (DRM encumbered). I'm sure I can find most of that stuff elsewhere. More lost money for DAZ/DAZ PAs due to DRM. 

    Nath said:
    Gr00vus said:

    They've added a tag to the "Install Types". It reads "Encrypted Daz Connect". If you see this in the "Install Types" information on the product page, it means the product is DRM encumbered (and can only be retrieved via connect). For example, the recently released "Old Warehouse Room" and "Classic Trenchcoat" both have this tag - which means I won't be buying them, though they are both products I'd definitely have wishlisted and probably purchased (especially the trenchcoat package) if they were not DRM encumbered. So, that's about $20, maybe more, that DAZ and the PAs won't be getting from me due to DRM.

    Q1701 said:

    if I want to avoid purchasing DRM products how am I to distinguish them from non-DRM products (especially a year from now or later when I've forgotten when things were released).

     

    And I can add to that that the Detective Poses and Props suddenly turned Connect Only in the time between me checking out and attempting to download, so that's a returned item, as I don't do Connect Only. Oh well...

     

    Well, that bites.  I had put the Detective Bundle on my wishlist.  Didn't check the individual items.  Just removed it from my wishlist, and I was considering purchasing it today.  Won't happen now.

    More money they've lost.

     

    And evidently they've had "plans" for Encrypted Only content for some time.  DESPITE what they told us about "...no current plans for connect only content at this time."

     

    Not feeling a lot of trust towards DAZ right now.   Though I'd be willing to bet they won't explain how they suddenly have all this encrypted connect only content when they said they had no plans for it.....

     

    Post edited by hphoenix on
  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 639
    hphoenix said:
    Gr00vus said:

    Thanks for the heads up there, I just removed that from my wish list too as it's not just connect only, it's now Encrypted Daz Content (DRM encumbered). I'm sure I can find most of that stuff elsewhere. More lost money for DAZ/DAZ PAs due to DRM. 

    Nath said:
    Gr00vus said:

    They've added a tag to the "Install Types". It reads "Encrypted Daz Connect". If you see this in the "Install Types" information on the product page, it means the product is DRM encumbered (and can only be retrieved via connect). For example, the recently released "Old Warehouse Room" and "Classic Trenchcoat" both have this tag - which means I won't be buying them, though they are both products I'd definitely have wishlisted and probably purchased (especially the trenchcoat package) if they were not DRM encumbered. So, that's about $20, maybe more, that DAZ and the PAs won't be getting from me due to DRM.

    Q1701 said:

    if I want to avoid purchasing DRM products how am I to distinguish them from non-DRM products (especially a year from now or later when I've forgotten when things were released).

     

    And I can add to that that the Detective Poses and Props suddenly turned Connect Only in the time between me checking out and attempting to download, so that's a returned item, as I don't do Connect Only. Oh well...

     

    Well, that bites.  I had put the Detective Bundle on my wishlist.  Didn't check the individual items.  Just removed it from my wishlist, and I was considering purchasing it today.  Won't happen now.

    More money they've lost.

     

    And evidently they've had "plans" for Encrypted Only content for some time.  DESPITE what they told us about "...no current plans for connect only content at this time."

     

    Not feeling a lot of trust towards DAZ right now.   Though I'd be willing to bet they won't explain how they suddenly have all this encrypted connect only content when they said they had no plans for it.....

     

    If you check the dates on when "there are no current plans for encrypted products" was said by a DAZ employee you will see that quite a lot of time has passed between then and now. I think that one of the reasons that encrypted products were released along side of 4.9 was to be upfront and honest about the "dark side" of Daz Connect, choosing to put it right up front instead of hiding it away for a later day. But I can say that when I said that there were no plans for encrypted-only content that it was true, and I stopped saying it when there started being plans of maybe releasing encrypted-only content even though those plans weren't definite.

  • Gr00vusGr00vus Posts: 310

    It's not really worth agonizing about the timing of those statements. Once the decision to add DRM to Studio was announced it was only a matter of time before DRM products would be released once the DRM enabled studio went live. The exact timing of when they'd be released was a minor issue. Probably better not to make any statements in that circumstance, but I'm not going to hold those statements against anyone either. In the end it's all about the actions, not the words.

  • Q1701Q1701 Posts: 3
    edited January 2016

    Listing only Daz Studio version 4.9 under "Compatible Software" on product pages might lead a reasonable person to conclude that Daz Studio version 4.9 was the only compatible version of Daz Studio for that particular asset.  This is because the industry standard for listing system and software compatibility is to list, at the least, the minimum requirements.  

    Since there are no product release dates listed on the product pages.  I wondered how I could avoid purchasing DRM products, how I could distinguish them from non-DRM products (especially a year from now or later when I've forgotten release dates in relationship to Daz Studio 4.9 and DRM).  Barring a reliable method of avoiding DRM products I decided to avoid all Gen 3 and beyond products.  I have since been informed that under "Install Types" on the product pages Daz3d will list DRM products as "Encrypted Daz Content".  If this labeling proves consistent, reliable and accurate it solves the problem of distinguishing DRM from non-DRM products.  It would be even more helpful if I could filter out what the store shows me to exclude DRM-only products, similar to the way I can exclude viewing products I already own. 

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,084

    It's a pity about the Trenchcoat ... I love it, but will NOT buy it.

    As for seeing what is Encrypted there is the label on the product page: Install Types:Encrypted Daz Connect

    I wouldn't put too much trust into the labels on the product pages early in the morning, when the store is putting things up automagically - but if there is no "Install Type Encrypted Daz Connect" the second day after a product is out, I think it is reliable.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,991
    Kerya said:

    It's a pity about the Trenchcoat ... I love it, but will NOT buy it.

    As for seeing what is Encrypted there is the label on the product page: Install Types:Encrypted Daz Connect

    I wouldn't put too much trust into the labels on the product pages early in the morning, when the store is putting things up automagically - but if there is no "Install Type Encrypted Daz Connect" the second day after a product is out, I think it is reliable.

    The problem is you need to go to each individual product page just to find out you don't want it after all. And that those labels are prone to change, as we discovered yesterday.

  • MorpheonMorpheon Posts: 738
    edited January 2016

    A store filter is definitely needed, and should have been in the works in advance of this. DAZ had to know that some of their customers would ask for one.

    The trenchcoat is cool, and I probably would have picked it up at some point, but what I WOULD have bought right now was the troubador outfit and the texture add-on -- BUT they're DAZ Connect-only and encrypted, so no sale. You just saved me sixteen bucks, DAZ -- thanks.

    Post edited by Morpheon on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,084

    Well - a store filter to exclude PC items was begged for about a thousand times ... there is none ...

  • jakibluejakiblue Posts: 6,678

    I've always wished there was a filter next to the "Figures" one that was for stuff like Props, Places, Environments, Shaders etc etc. 

    I can filter by DAZ Originals in the "Artist" filter, I can filter by Genesis 3 Female or Male etc.....but I can't filter by Props and Environments etc which is insanity. So I doubt a lot whether we'd ever get Connect Only filters etc. . 

  • KindredArtsKindredArts Posts: 1,131
    jakiblue said:

    I've always wished there was a filter next to the "Figures" one that was for stuff like Props, Places, Environments, Shaders etc etc. 

    I can filter by DAZ Originals in the "Artist" filter, I can filter by Genesis 3 Female or Male etc.....but I can't filter by Props and Environments etc which is insanity. So I doubt a lot whether we'd ever get Connect Only filters etc. . 

    Aussie, can't you use the "places and things" tab then refine from there on in?

  • jakibluejakiblue Posts: 6,678

    Well.

    *cough* Yes, yes I could.

    And I shall do that from now on. :blush: 

    jakiblue said:

    I've always wished there was a filter next to the "Figures" one that was for stuff like Props, Places, Environments, Shaders etc etc. 

    I can filter by DAZ Originals in the "Artist" filter, I can filter by Genesis 3 Female or Male etc.....but I can't filter by Props and Environments etc which is insanity. So I doubt a lot whether we'd ever get Connect Only filters etc. . 

    Aussie, can't you use the "places and things" tab then refine from there on in?

     

  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,180

    PC+ items can be returned.

    Thank you. I thought that I had read somewhere that you couldn't.

    I appreciate the correction, being wrong can be unpleasant!

  • BendinggrassBendinggrass Posts: 1,214

    I have to confess I am very troubled about the efforts of DAZ to encrypt all its items. 

    This really seems to me to be a unilateral tearing up of the contract that has existed between DAZ and its customers for many years. 

    I for one have DS and Poser on my computer, and use DAZ content in Poser. I bought the DAZ content because it could be used also in Poser. Now, from what I read, over time all DAZ content will be eventually encrypted. This will eventually lead to my content not being useable in Poser. Consider if I have a hard drive crash and have to download my DAZ content again, perhaps a year from now. By that time it will be likely that all DAZ content will be encrypted, including something like V4. The encrypted V4 cannot be used in Poser from what I understand.

    So I bought a lot of content to use in Poser, and the business choices Daz makes will forbid me from using it in Poser.

    This is just not good enough.

    DAZ, could you please explain yourself on this issue?

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,387

    I have to confess I am very troubled about the efforts of DAZ to encrypt all its items. 

    This really seems to me to be a unilateral tearing up of the contract that has existed between DAZ and its customers for many years. 

    I for one have DS and Poser on my computer, and use DAZ content in Poser. I bought the DAZ content because it could be used also in Poser. Now, from what I read, over time all DAZ content will be eventually encrypted. This will eventually lead to my content not being useable in Poser. Consider if I have a hard drive crash and have to download my DAZ content again, perhaps a year from now. By that time it will be likely that all DAZ content will be encrypted, including something like V4. The encrypted V4 cannot be used in Poser from what I understand.

    So I bought a lot of content to use in Poser, and the business choices Daz makes will forbid me from using it in Poser.

    This is just not good enough.

    DAZ, could you please explain yourself on this issue?

    I seem to remember there being a post that said V4 couldn't be encrypted; I could be wrong. Many of us have similar worries, which is why the thread in the commons is getting long.

    I have made some backups, and suggest you do the same if you are concerned. Even if the products don't become encrypted, it is possible a set of circumstances would prevent you downloading content when you needed to. :)

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,665

    Daz 3D has stated that it has no intention in applying encryption retroactively.

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,325
    edited January 2016
    Chohole said:

    Daz 3D has stated that it has no intention in applying encryption retroactively.

    Sorry, but after it ALSO stated "...no plans for encrypted only content...." and two months later it was already changed.........you'll forgive me if that assurance isn't very convincing.

     

    Post edited by hphoenix on
  • I have to confess I am very troubled about the efforts of DAZ to encrypt all its items. 

    This really seems to me to be a unilateral tearing up of the contract that has existed between DAZ and its customers for many years. 

    I for one have DS and Poser on my computer, and use DAZ content in Poser. I bought the DAZ content because it could be used also in Poser. Now, from what I read, over time all DAZ content will be eventually encrypted. This will eventually lead to my content not being useable in Poser. Consider if I have a hard drive crash and have to download my DAZ content again, perhaps a year from now. By that time it will be likely that all DAZ content will be encrypted, including something like V4. The encrypted V4 cannot be used in Poser from what I understand.

    So I bought a lot of content to use in Poser, and the business choices Daz makes will forbid me from using it in Poser.

    This is just not good enough.

    DAZ, could you please explain yourself on this issue?

    Well, I might be troubled by Daz' attermpts to encrypt all of its content. Fortunately it isn't making any such efforts, and has said it won't make such efforts, and even if it did make such efforts they wouldn't affect Poser-format content such as V4.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,665
    hphoenix said:
    Chohole said:

    Daz 3D has stated that it has no intention in applying encryption retroactively.

    Sorry, but after it ALSO stated "...no plans for encrypted only content...." and two months later it was already changed.........you'll forgive me if that assurance isn't very convincing.

     

    I think you will find the actual quote had "currently" in front of it. 

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,203
    edited January 2016

    So....I installed 4.9 (albeit on another drive) because I could not find my 4.8 installer, and I wanted to test the Nvidia driver rollback solution to the Bluescreen I was having.  Still worried about this mess, BUT....

    It popped up a window asking to Connect, I chose "Work Offline", and "Never show this window again"...then unplugged the internet and proceeded to use DS as I normally would.  No issues and no apparent trying to connect to the internet behind my back.

    So I am cautiously moving forward, and waiting to hear the new feedback thats supposedly coming. 

    (of course, hopefully the "...new official information on this topic from Daz" is not coming "soon")

    Post edited by 3dOutlaw on
  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 803

    I think a lot of people are waiting on that

  • lxlx Posts: 2,991

    I hate to point out the obvious, but even though this is the right place for it, most people just read the commons so if it isn't posted there I'd expect threads to spawn there again anyway.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,387
    lx said:

    I hate to point out the obvious, but even though this is the right place for it, most people just read the commons so if it isn't posted there I'd expect threads to spawn there again anyway.

    I was proud of that thread too. :)

    But yeh I went looking for it, so I guess its time to speculate in this thread. :) Until it appears.

  • BendinggrassBendinggrass Posts: 1,214

    I have to confess I am very troubled about the efforts of DAZ to encrypt all its items. 

    This really seems to me to be a unilateral tearing up of the contract that has existed between DAZ and its customers for many years. 

    I for one have DS and Poser on my computer, and use DAZ content in Poser. I bought the DAZ content because it could be used also in Poser. Now, from what I read, over time all DAZ content will be eventually encrypted. This will eventually lead to my content not being useable in Poser. Consider if I have a hard drive crash and have to download my DAZ content again, perhaps a year from now. By that time it will be likely that all DAZ content will be encrypted, including something like V4. The encrypted V4 cannot be used in Poser from what I understand.

    So I bought a lot of content to use in Poser, and the business choices Daz makes will forbid me from using it in Poser.

    This is just not good enough.

    DAZ, could you please explain yourself on this issue?

    Well, I might be troubled by Daz' attermpts to encrypt all of its content. Fortunately it isn't making any such efforts, and has said it won't make such efforts, and even if it did make such efforts they wouldn't affect Poser-format content such as V4.

     

    Well, from what I read here  http://www.daz3d.com/daz-connect/ there seems to be the intention by DAZ to convert far more of the content items to encrypted files that stretch back for some years.

    Here is a quote from that page:

    "New products, as well as a huge selection of older products, will be offered through Daz Connect right away, with more of the older products having Daz Connect support added in the future."  

    So far, there has been no explanation from DAZ that is any real explanation. This is simply digital rights management. I wish I could see some good in this but so far I cannot.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,991

    I have to confess I am very troubled about the efforts of DAZ to encrypt all its items. 

    This really seems to me to be a unilateral tearing up of the contract that has existed between DAZ and its customers for many years. 

    I for one have DS and Poser on my computer, and use DAZ content in Poser. I bought the DAZ content because it could be used also in Poser. Now, from what I read, over time all DAZ content will be eventually encrypted. This will eventually lead to my content not being useable in Poser. Consider if I have a hard drive crash and have to download my DAZ content again, perhaps a year from now. By that time it will be likely that all DAZ content will be encrypted, including something like V4. The encrypted V4 cannot be used in Poser from what I understand.

    So I bought a lot of content to use in Poser, and the business choices Daz makes will forbid me from using it in Poser.

    This is just not good enough.

    DAZ, could you please explain yourself on this issue?

    Well, I might be troubled by Daz' attermpts to encrypt all of its content. Fortunately it isn't making any such efforts, and has said it won't make such efforts, and even if it did make such efforts they wouldn't affect Poser-format content such as V4.

     

    Well, from what I read here  http://www.daz3d.com/daz-connect/ there seems to be the intention by DAZ to convert far more of the content items to encrypted files that stretch back for some years.

    Here is a quote from that page:

    "New products, as well as a huge selection of older products, will be offered through Daz Connect right away, with more of the older products having Daz Connect support added in the future."  

    So far, there has been no explanation from DAZ that is any real explanation. This is simply digital rights management. I wish I could see some good in this but so far I cannot.

    Connect and encrypted aren't the same thing. Encrypted content can only arrive via Connect, but so can nonencrypted content.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,665

    I have to confess I am very troubled about the efforts of DAZ to encrypt all its items. 

    This really seems to me to be a unilateral tearing up of the contract that has existed between DAZ and its customers for many years. 

    I for one have DS and Poser on my computer, and use DAZ content in Poser. I bought the DAZ content because it could be used also in Poser. Now, from what I read, over time all DAZ content will be eventually encrypted. This will eventually lead to my content not being useable in Poser. Consider if I have a hard drive crash and have to download my DAZ content again, perhaps a year from now. By that time it will be likely that all DAZ content will be encrypted, including something like V4. The encrypted V4 cannot be used in Poser from what I understand.

    So I bought a lot of content to use in Poser, and the business choices Daz makes will forbid me from using it in Poser.

    This is just not good enough.

    DAZ, could you please explain yourself on this issue?

    Well, I might be troubled by Daz' attermpts to encrypt all of its content. Fortunately it isn't making any such efforts, and has said it won't make such efforts, and even if it did make such efforts they wouldn't affect Poser-format content such as V4.

     

    Well, from what I read here  http://www.daz3d.com/daz-connect/ there seems to be the intention by DAZ to convert far more of the content items to encrypted files that stretch back for some years.

    Here is a quote from that page:

    "New products, as well as a huge selection of older products, will be offered through Daz Connect right away, with more of the older products having Daz Connect support added in the future."  

    So far, there has been no explanation from DAZ that is any real explanation. This is simply digital rights management. I wish I could see some good in this but so far I cannot.

    Don't confuse Connect with encrypted,  Connect is the delivery system.  Like DIM

  • DAZ_JonDAZ_Jon Posts: 565
    edited January 2016
    hphoenix said:
    Chohole said:

    Daz 3D has stated that it has no intention in applying encryption retroactively.

    Sorry, but after it ALSO stated "...no plans for encrypted only content...." and two months later it was already changed.........you'll forgive me if that assurance isn't very convincing.

     

    So, this seems like a big misconception or repetition of either user statements or casual statements that were later being clarified by the one I made at the start of this thread. This statement clarifying what our plans were with encrypted content was actually the first post of this thread was posted here.

    • There are no current products planned for release as Daz Connect only, meaning only available encrypted. We don’t have a firm date on when 4.9 is going to ship because we’re still in Beta. It will definitely happen though, and the rate it happens is going to be dependent on a number of factors we’ll keep an eye on to make the transition as smooth as possible.

    And then also this statement..

    • All previously released content will always be available unencrypted. 

    If we haven't stuck to what I stated in the first post of this thread (made on the 5th of November), or feel that statements from Daz (meaning an employee so having the DAZ_ in front of their name) from that remark onward have been unclear or ambigious or misleading, please point them out and I'll be happy to look into them and address them.

    Post edited by DAZ_Jon on
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