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I just zipped them in place, into one zip file in the same directory. That makes it easy for me to restore the files if I want to. In fact so long as you keep your downloads all the files can be restored just by doing a "Re-Install Packages..." from the pop-up menu for the package in the DIM "Installed" tab. The only problem with that is that it does an "Uninstall" followed by an "Install" and the latter uses the installation directory currently set in DIM, not the one the package was previously installed to (unlike a regular "Update"), so things can get moved if you have multiple installation directories.
I am having the same issue as Tugpsx. I made an expression using old G8 expressions and the Face Control together, when I loaded the scene today, the effects of the expression pose were gone and old G8 expressions no longer work.
jbowler, can you please explain what you mean by "fixes"? Do you mean moving the empty expression files in the G8.1 data/morph/Daz files? It seems like moving the files allowed old G8 expressions to work for a while, but now the expressions are not working again. I moved the empty expression files to a completely different drive, but it's still not working.
Edit: I think I've figured it out. Am in the middle of a render so I will have to wait to check. I didn't realize I had to modify Base Pose Head too.
I looked through about 10 pages of this thread so far, but can't seem to find an answer to this. Hopefully someone might know off the top of their head.
How do you zero expressions that are created using the 8.1 face rig? Nothing I try will clear them, not even the built-in Restore Figure or zeroing commands. Thanks in advance for any help.
You have to select the Face Rig itself and use those presets and not the head bones of the actual model.
OK, I just deleted the .SAV extensions on the above folders. I guess I won't be able to use the G8 expressions with G8.1. I'd rather not take a risk. I wish DAZ would give us the choice of being able to use the G8 expressions on G8.1, if we wish to do so.
Thank you, that worked.
After you select the Face Rig, is there an option to Zero things out, or what do you do?
Selecting the face rig and choosing Restore Figure worked for me.
Considering some/a lot of the expression morphs from 8.0 aren't going to work on 8.1, hopefully they can update this asset in regards so that the 8.1 figure doesn't go about hunting for the 8.0 expression morphs. My loadup times are 10 times larger with 8.1 figures, and my log file is like 2000 times larger than the normal log file when loading a 8.0 figure.
Not true... All the G8 expressions do work on G8.1 after the dummy/placeholder files have been removed from G8.1 expression folders.
Just to clarify for a dummy, do the dials for G8 expressions not work at all on 8.1 or are the results wonky?
If the dummy/placeholder files are not removed from G8.1 expression folders, the G8 base expressions do not even appear in Parameters/Posing tabs and because of this, any/all G8 expressions that are utilizing those base expressions do nothing.
Not sure if this has been discussed here before, or should be in a new thread.
It seems that Victoria 8.1 is quite disjunct from Genesis 8.1 Female.
Genesis 8 Female and Genesis 8.1 Female seem to be identical in shape.
In Genesis 3 and 8, when you loaded Victoria (7 for 3 and 8 for 8) and dialed out the Victoria morphs, you had the base genesis female.
With Victoria 8.1, this is not the case.
As a result, I can apply a shape preset saved from G8 to G8.1 and it looks like my G8 character, nut when I apply it to V8.1 with Victoria dialed-out, I get a freak.
V8.1 is just a character morph for G8.1F, in that respect nothing has changed.
After dialing out V8.1, what does your "Currently used" list look like (choose 'Show hidden properties' first)?
Right. But I'm just wondering how safe this is.
How safe is it to install new stuff to DS, especially freebies?
The dummy files have no other function than to disable the G8 base expressions and in the highly unlikely event that there will at some point be any problems with removing them, you can always put them back by reinstalling the "Genesis 8 Starter Essentials"
Hmmm, interesting. I went back to a file or scene in which two characters were posed while the
.SAV was in place, allowing me to use the G8 Expressions. Yesterday, I deleted the .SAV on the folders. However, the G8 Expressions continue to be in the Parameters Tab and are, surprisingly (to me), still usable.
Yes. The dummy files are hiding the UI. Once you have used the UI and saved a scene file the file knows where the actual morph is apparently because the ID in the dummy files is actually the ID of the original G8 expression. E.g. the Afraid HD dummy contains this ID:
So that is "Genesis 8", not "Genesis 8_1" despite the fact that the dummy is actually located here:
And that ID is identical to the one in the original eCTRLAfrid_HD.dsf. When the scene file is saved I believe it saves the ID, not the path to the morph, so it goes looking for the real expression eCTRL file.
What I found, however, was the expression doesn't appear in the "currently used" parameter list of the Head node, presumably because that is just an alias and it doesn't get stored in the scene file.
The main effect of all this is that it effectively prevents PAs from using the old eCTRL files on Genesis 8.1 figures; sure it can be made to work by hiding the dummy files but no one is going to try to sell a product that relies on that... Maybe that is the intention; change from 8.0 expressions based on the Base Pose Head to expressions based on the equivalent but different FACS morphs avail with 8.1. Indeed the FACS expressions do use IDs which refer to the new 8_1 directories. E.g. here is the ID of "Afraid" from the "FACS expressions" directory:
I see the main issue with the work-round as being plain confusion; the work round seems to be safe but potentially very confusing because the Starter packages will certainly be updated.
There is, however, the still unexplain behavior reported earlier of a previously saved scene file changing after updates; i.e. the expression on an 8.1 character changing radically when the scene is reloaded. I have not been able to reproduce this; I thought I could by undoing the work-round (restoring the directories) but as I said before and above this doesn't mess up previously saved scenes.
I generally don't use/like the G8 base expressions but I do like some of the expressions that come with some character morphs. It seems that these expressions, bluejaunte's Sina, Sahel, Macey eg. don't rely on G8 base expressions and therefore continue to work fine with 8.1. Didn't know that so thanks. With some of the G8M characters the expression dials (Pace/Ceejay) still appear with 8.1 and some still work and some don't, again becasue some do/don't rely on the base expressions. The issue of G8/8.1 expressions is starting to make more sense to me. Thank you PerttiA.
That post is missing vital information and If you read that message carefully, I think there is more to the story...
"I opened a scene I created when G8.1F came out" - So, the scene was created 6 weeks ago...
"the patches that have been applied to G8.1F" - What patches, installed when?
"Do we still need to delete/mask the 8.1 expression folders?" - Still?... Did he delete them once and they came back (with the 'patch'?)
I also get a strong impression of having AFE present...
Long load times are down to a couple of issues.
1) DS has always been poor at dealing with large amounts of complicated ERC, it basically bogs down the program causing it to load slower and slower the more it has to deal with, DS4 can handle far more ERC than DS1, 2 or 3 could but it still has limits.
2) Genesis 8 is an enormous cluster**** of complicated ERC, damn near every DSF file in the morphs folder is overloaded with ERC, and DS just can't cope with it.
Lets take Victoria 8 as an example -
CTRLVictoria8.dsf = 2 ERC
FHMVictoria8.dsf = 531 ERC
FBMVictoria8.dsf = 933 ERC
That is just 3 of the 52 DSF files she comes with, and all the rest have ERC in them, so a couple of thousand ERC for each DO character you have installed. Add in some of the other characters in this store, and things like AFE, or Zev0's products and you could easily be hitting a million plus ERC when you load G8F.
Then there's 8.1, not only does it have to load all it's own ERC, but with 4.15+ it also has to deal with all 8.0's crap as well.
One general concept that I've employed in the past when developing real-time applications is to setup as much as possible ahead of time, leaving less to do at runtime. I'm wondering if this approach might be useful in this case.
My understanding is that numerous small files (relatively speaking) need to be read from disk when a figure is loaded. Once read in, then the structures/references must be setup in memory.
I'm wondering if this can't be done pre-runtime, with the result being a single large file (basically a memory dump) with the references already setup for a given figure. This single large file could then be read into memory when loading the figure. This pre-runtime process could be repeated whenever new content was installed (again, pre-runtime).
I'm guessing there would be complications with pointers, etc. as it's not a simple fixed memory situation but rather a general purpose computing situation that must run on unknown hardware. I'm not suggesting it would be trivial and I'm certain there are things that I'm not aware (obviously I didn't write the code for DS), but it may still be worth investigating. The long load times take much of the joy out of using DS (and actively discourage spending money on large libraries).
- Greg
DzCreateExPFiles-v4.bat and so on did this for the fourth geenation figures. Some people hated it, and frequently got in a mess with it.
DS already has the DSON cache.
Having glanced through this post since the introduction of G8.1 i'm curious as to what I've done differently to everyone else as I have both G8 and G8.1 expressions visible and working right out the box. All visemes are also available and working. I have a quite extensive library of G8F expressions and as of yet have not found a single expression that does not work as expected on 8.1, including expresions from other sites where I know the artist is working hard to update their expression products to work with 8.1. There are some sight differences on a few expressions, but nothing noticable without doing a mesh to mesh overlay comaparison. All the files that people are pormpting to remove in the G8_1 folder are all still intact.
The new G8 essentials were installed in the same way I install all updates to anything that directly effects studio and/or base resources. That method is to ensure everything related to Daz is shut down on my PC with a windows restart. I used DIM to uninstall starter essentials (I never use Daz Central or Connect, only DIM or manual inatall), clear it from the install tab and download and install again via DIM. Another windows rertart, open Daz (4.15 beta and/or 4.15 general) and all expressions working as expected.
So, what am I doing that others aren't?
I suspect there is some caching issue going on somewhere. First verify that you have the "dummy" files, they are installed by Genesis 8 (Male|Female) Starter Essentials so you can find the paths from DIM by right clicking the product(s) in the Installed tab (type "Starter" into the search bar) and selecting "Show Installed Files...". This contains the installed files which should be in blue and underlined, look for one of the files in grey below (it should not be in grey in your installation; it should be blue):
Now click on the blue link, e.g. for:
This will take you to the directory. Double click on the file to open it in Notepad. It should be pretty much empty, just a few lines of XML:
"file_version": "0.6.0.0",
"asset_info": {
"id": "/data/DAZ%203D/Genesis%208/Female/Morphs/DAZ%203D/Base%20Pose%20Head/alias_head_CTRLCheeksDimpleCreaseHD.dsf",
"type": "modifier",
"contributor": {
"author": "Daz 3D",
"email": "",
"website": "http://www.daz3d.com";
},
"revision": "1.0",
"modified": "2017-03-28T16:13:18Z"
}
}
This will verify that your installation is correct.
Now, from File Explorer, find the full path of the file and remove the bit DIM gives you. E.g. on my system the directory in bold here:
In a running version of DAZStudio right click on the "Content Library" tab and open the "Content Directory Manager...". In the Content Sets pane open the first "DAZ Studio Formats" node and make sure that the directory in bold matches one of the listed directories exactly:
If it does check every other directory in that list (particularly the ones at the top) to see if they contain a duplicate of the file:
There should be no duplicates. You don't need to check the other "Content Sets...", only "Current Directories" matters.
Remember that the dummy files only hide the expressions on new characters; to test you have to load a new character into the scene then check for missing expression support. It's best to load a new instance of DAZStudio.
If all the above seems correct yet you still have the expressions try deleting the DSON cache (in Parameters..., General Tab) and restarting DAZStudio. It would be very useful to know if that makes a change... If it doesn't you can consider Content Directory Maintenance... operations or, perhaps less destructive, simply de-install and re-install the relevant Starter Essentials packages. I have to admit I don't have the faintest idea why that would work if all the above is correct, but it might...
Well, indeed but it is still unexplained... The obvious way of producing the pictures in question is to create a G8.1F scene with the default configuration and setting expressions from both "Female" and "Female 8_1". The former will not show because of the dummy "Base Pose Head" files, but PA expressions can still be set as they are not dummied out. If the dummy files are now deleted and the scene reloaded I believe the "Female" expressions will suddenly appear (I haven't verified this).
I checked, there weren't any patches so far as I could see apart from the releases of the Beta.
That is one possibility, especially when some poses include expressions too, which would have changed the value of some of the non functional G8 expressions and when the dummy files were removed, the effect of those expressions would be seen for the first time.
Everything here is exactly as I have it, all the files you highlighted exist exactly as you have shown them and the xml code is exactly the same, with the exception of the directory paths in the content manager. I see you have a lot of sub folders listed whereas I just have my root folder listed. Is that whats making the difference? I don't know. I'm also not looking to "fix" anything or modify the instalation in any way, because as far as I'm concerned everything is working perfectly. I can load a G8.1 and make use of expressions from both generations with no ill effects. Obviously the new G8.1 base expressions are significantly different than the original G8 expressions, but then they were created specifically for 8.1. I'm merely curious as to why I have access to ALL my expressions straight out the box yet others are having problems.
Well, if you really want to use G 8 expressions with G 8.1, what if you just hide the two folders with the dummy files, temporarily. Then, you should have all expressions. Let's say you want to continue working with the file for several days. (That's what happened to me.) Put the folders with the dummy files back (or unhide them). When you start up DS and reopen your saved scene, won't you still have access to those G 8 expressions? That's what happened to me.
As jbowler wrote above:
Yes. The dummy files are hiding the UI. Once you have used the UI and saved a scene file the file knows where the actual morph is apparently because the ID in the dummy files is actually the ID of the original G8 expression. E.g. the Afraid HD dummy contains this ID:
/data/DAZ%203D/Genesis%208/Female/Morphs/DAZ%203D/Expressions/eCTRLAfraid_HD.dsf
So that is "Genesis 8", not "Genesis 8_1" despite the fact that the dummy is actually located here:
...\data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions
And that ID is identical to the one in the original eCTRLAfrid_HD.dsf. When the scene file is saved I believe it saves the ID, not the path to the morph, so it goes looking for the real expression eCTRL file.
It does not work reliably. I had only tested with "Afraid HD" and that is an expression which is itself dummied out. The behavior I saw with "Afraid HD" did not occur when I used "A Lady - Angry 01 Alexander 8". I assume this is because the scene file stores a setting for that specific morph and only that morph; if the morphs it uses disappear then the expression stops working.
The behavior with the work-round is at best confusing and unreliable. I'm not going to use it - I have restored the folders containing the dummies. I know if I use it I will end up with scenes that suddenly change because I used a dummied out expression on a G8.1 character.
I can completely explain the behavior I see, but the "Base Pose Head" morphs are so fundamental to so many of the G8 PA products that I don't want to use those expression/head poses on 8.1 even though I know how to do it. It is just too error prone.
I thought that there were PA products out there that could flatten a scene or node to remove the pose morphs, but the one I tried (part of the otherwise good "Pose Architect for Genesis 8 Female(s)") consistently fails with this error:
2021-03-04 14:50:40.555 WARNING: TypeError: Result of expression 'oProperty.getDefaultValue' [undefined] is not a function.
Since the bones are the same removing the pose adjustments to the bones in this way would at least isolate the scene from indirect changes in the things the PA morphs use.