Beta for DazCentral, your new Content Manager

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  • UHFUHF Posts: 400

    DazCentral failed to log in as well.

    I think I'd rather just go and do some renders rather than play guess the issue.

    Oh and Keicy still hasn't been updated.  Better luck with tomorrow's download eh?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 75,886

     

    UHF said:

    The file system is a database, Richard is how Daz and Poser have always used it.  If you have new ideas that are different from how you use it, its probably not best to redfine its existing use.  There are plenty of solutions that satisfy your relational database desires while also continuing to use the software as it has always been used.  Off the top of my head,  just put all the files in a nice neat location, and put links to them where we traditonally and always have messed them around. (That would even play nice with your encryption.)   Another viable solution would be to put definition files (txt) in the directories that describe what's there.  Then if they got moved, you'd easily find them again.

    Poser and DS in the past, and using the plain content library now, just give a view of the way the files are arranged on disc. That is not, by my understanding, a database.

    DS already allows you to place links to files in the content folders so yes, that is another way to rearrange things while leaving the actual files in their default location - you can do that via right-click in the Content Library pane.

    UHF said:

    I guess I'll attempt to try DIM.  Of course failed, and I've wasted an hour so far with the official advice from Daz baing to uninstall everything (hunt for databases, and attempt to cause it to function.  Wow an aweful lot of people have had issue with it over the years.  (..and that didn't suprise me.)

    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207496406-I-Cannot-Sign-Into-Daz-Connect-and-I-Get-a-Login-Failure-in-Daz-Studio-4-9

    Log-in issues are likely down to the stricter requirements for passwords, you may need to chnage yours in your account settings.

    UHF said:

    After that I'll need to read all the documentation to attempt to configure it, and then it wants to download things?  And put them places?  Then I manually install my downloads, delete those downloads, and\or put them in my backups... and then Daz will magically tell me what version I have downloaded

    Version numbers are like 5 characters, and you already track what I have.  Why so hard?

    I'm not understanding what you mean here - if you are talking about update notifications, for content downloaded/installed through DIM you will see a product Updates group in the Ready to Download tab when DIM is logged in. For content isntalled through Connect you will see a U arrow in a circle icon at top-right of the product thumbnail in the Smart Content pane's products tab when DS has logged in to know there is an update.

  • mindsongmindsong Posts: 1,616

     

    UHF said:

    The file system is a database, Richard is how Daz and Poser have always used it.  If you have new ideas that are different from how you use it, its probably not best to redfine its existing use.  There are plenty of solutions that satisfy your relational database desires while also continuing to use the software as it has always been used.  Off the top of my head,  just put all the files in a nice neat location, and put links to them where we traditonally and always have messed them around. (That would even play nice with your encryption.)   Another viable solution would be to put definition files (txt) in the directories that describe what's there.  Then if they got moved, you'd easily find them again.

    Poser and DS in the past, and using the plain content library now, just give a view of the way the files are arranged on disc. That is not, by my understanding, a database.

    A file system is a database.

    --ms

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 75,886
    mindsong said:

     

    UHF said:

    The file system is a database, Richard is how Daz and Poser have always used it.  If you have new ideas that are different from how you use it, its probably not best to redfine its existing use.  There are plenty of solutions that satisfy your relational database desires while also continuing to use the software as it has always been used.  Off the top of my head,  just put all the files in a nice neat location, and put links to them where we traditonally and always have messed them around. (That would even play nice with your encryption.)   Another viable solution would be to put definition files (txt) in the directories that describe what's there.  Then if they got moved, you'd easily find them again.

    Poser and DS in the past, and using the plain content library now, just give a view of the way the files are arranged on disc. That is not, by my understanding, a database.

    A file system is a database.

    --ms

    A simple, flat catalogue - not a relational database, which is what the Content Management System is.

  • mavantemavante Posts: 734

    The file system isn't a database, which is the whole point.

    Um, Richard: I don't think the programmers and tech people got the memo. (See attached.)

    DatabaseManagement.jpg
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  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 5,598
    mindsong said:
    A file system is a database.

    --ms

    No, a file system is just that. A database consist of indexes, tables, keys. The Content Library is literally a graphical display of the file contents. The same with Windows Explorer, File Explorer, just a view of the directories and files layout.

  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 5,598
    mavante said:

    The file system isn't a database, which is the whole point.

    Um, Richard: I don't think the programmers and tech people got the memo. (See attached.)

    That database is for the metadata. Even if the database is reset, the actual file contents are still visible in the Content Library. The Product list, which displays the info from the database, will be empty.

  • UHFUHF Posts: 400

    Lets not split hairs... the relational component in a file system is subdirectories. I won't find Daz in the C:\Windows directory because they aren't related.  It just wouldn't make sense.

    In the poser\daz world, subdirectories, and subdirectory names have meaning (mostly kinda sorta).  This is how and why we have directories. 

    If I know the name of the product, and should be able to find everything related to it.  All that was ever required was consistent naming, and a degree of enforcement from Daz.  Perhaps a naming guide?

    For instance out of the shop you should get something like a clothing item... dForce Butterfly Outfit for Genesis 8 Female

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-butterfly-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

    If I purchase add on textures they should ideally be located with the the outfit (usually they are all over the place, but not in this case since its all from Daz).

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-butterfly-outfit-textures

    Since I don't like scrolling forever through things I have everything sorted to manage types and locations.  dforce clothes are in the !Dforce directory.  I also don't like clicking a lot to find what I want, so I do my best to flatten the directory names.  I prefer textures to be placed in "3Delight", and "Iray", not "Materials\3Delight" etc.  I prefer expansions to be "3Delight - expansion name" etc.  I also don't know why vendor names are some how tolerated in all that.  I don't need more clicking and guessing the find things.  (To be fair... a couple of vendors are separated out.. Stonemason, and alfaseed, aka Aeon Soul are singled out.  Its more work, but I like it.)  If there are other related items, I will put them in there, like poses.  However Poses are sometimes badly labled, so I make sure I can tell what figure it works with.

     

    Now... what Richard Hastline is refering to with 'relational database' is when you view something with multiple related meanings.  Like hair that is made for two characters (G3F and G8F) but honestly you only need one set of textures.  File systems don't do that.  And yup, I do the stupid. I copy the files to where they are needed.  There have been relatively few items where 'relational' issues have come up as a necessity.

  • WolfwoodWolfwood Posts: 673
    UHF said:

    Lets not split hairs... the relational component in a file system is subdirectories. I won't find Daz in the C:\Windows directory because they aren't related.  It just wouldn't make sense.

    Now... what Richard Hastline is refering to with 'relational database' is when you view something with multiple related meanings.  Like hair that is made for two characters (G3F and G8F) but honestly you only need one set of textures.  File systems don't do that.  And yup, I do the stupid. I copy the files to where they are needed.  There have been relatively few items where 'relational' issues have come up as a necessity.

    No, i think that by "relational database" he mean actually a relational database that uses the relational model, not simply relating this with that:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_database

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 15,882
    edited May 2020

    Filesystems are databases with differing sets of selection keys used to navigate it as you couldn't navigate it if it din't have those distinguishing sets of keys as it really would be just a flat list of names like someone might type in a text editor document as you couldn't distingush between directories, and files, and devices (for some OSes) and so on: Keys that make sense for the variant type of operating system's file system data types, not for DAZ Studio in particular.

    At one time Microsoift was working on Longhorn, a type of relational database filesystem called WinFS but it was canceled. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinFS

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • UHFUHF Posts: 400

    Richard, thanks for telling me to change my password. I'm really glad I didn't use Daz's help advice to reinstall everything.

    It only took like 20 minutes to download and install the mesh grabber rotation tool.  I found the whole process very messy.  The Grabber itself was point and click to get in there via manual download.

    Is there a method for Daz DIM to download all the .dsx files (containing version numbers) without all the zip files in order to generate a baseline for my database? (This would approximate the service I currently get from every other website.) I have well over 4500 items from Daz in my library, and I don't think I want to redownload absolutely everything just to get 4500 1 kb files.  I'm equally certain I don't want to unstall a huge portion of all that.

    Going forward what's the plan for people who manually download?  Just keep guessing and redownloading till we get it right?

    In other news.. Keicy still hasn't been updated.  (I must be pushing over 1.5GB in downloads on that one product alone so far, I guess I'll just keep at it until it magically shows.)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 75,886
    UHF said:

    Richard, thanks for telling me to change my password. I'm really glad I didn't use Daz's help advice to reinstall everything.

    It only took like 20 minutes to download and install the mesh grabber rotation tool.  I found the whole process very messy.  The Grabber itself was point and click to get in there via manual download.

    Is there a method for Daz DIM to download all the .dsx files (containing version numbers) without all the zip files in order to generate a baseline for my database? (This would approximate the service I currently get from every other website.) I have well over 4500 items from Daz in my library, and I don't think I want to redownload absolutely everything just to get 4500 1 kb files.  I'm equally certain I don't want to unstall a huge portion of all that.

    No, but if you have the zips you could dumpt them in the Install Manager Downloads folder, start DIM, and it will generate the .dsx files (you can then remove the zips, if desired).

    UHF said:

    Going forward what's the plan for people who manually download?  Just keep guessing and redownloading till we get it right?

    In other news.. Keicy still hasn't been updated.  (I must be pushing over 1.5GB in downloads on that one product alone so far, I guess I'll just keep at it until it magically shows.)

    Yes, though you can always use DIM to download but not to install (where manual install is an option) - it's the same zip either way.

  • UHFUHF Posts: 400

    Wow.  That's a horrific amount of work.  I don't think I want to do that for you.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,350
    UHF said:

    Wow.  That's a horrific amount of work.  I don't think I want to do that for you.

    Yes, it is - these issues are why DIM exists in the fist place. And I can see how it could be especially confusing for new users, too. That's how we got Connect, and now DazCentral.

    - Greg

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 75,886
    UHF said:

    Wow.  That's a horrific amount of work.  I don't think I want to do that for you.

    Which? If you have current copies of the zips archived just plop 'em in the DIM Downloads folder, it may take a while for them to copy across if theya re on a separate drive but that doesn't require intervention so you can leave it working while you do other stuff. Run DIM to generate the file, again no further action required on your part, then optionally (if you don't want the zips on that drive permanently) sort by type and remove the zips. All doen bar any downloads, and you can select all updates with a single check box in the Ready To Download tab of DIM.

  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 805

    Just an update here at the (current) bottom of the thread, we have released an updated version of DazCentral that fixes a couple of issues. Multiple paths in DIM should be respected better, but changing them in DazCentral will override all of your currently set paths in DIM. It won't reboot on install if other applications are using libraries it is trying to update. Also it added the ability to cancel currently running operations when you quitting instead of finishing everything up before closing down.

     

    If you are having difficulty logging in to this or DIM, a security patch was applied to the store software that enhances the password security checking system. This means that some very short passwords will need to be updated in order to continue working. Additionally, it now double-checks your username for invalid characters, the one that seems to be most common is a period.

  • plarsonplarson Posts: 21
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    Just an update here at the (current) bottom of the thread, we have released an updated version of DazCentral that fixes a couple of issues. Multiple paths in DIM should be respected better, but changing them in DazCentral will override all of your currently set paths in DIM. It won't reboot on install if other applications are using libraries it is trying to update. Also it added the ability to cancel currently running operations when you quitting instead of finishing everything up before closing down.

     

    If you are having difficulty logging in to this or DIM, a security patch was applied to the store software that enhances the password security checking system. This means that some very short passwords will need to be updated in order to continue working. Additionally, it now double-checks your username for invalid characters, the one that seems to be most common is a period.

    Updated password to 13 characters with complexity numbers, lower case characters, and special characters. Able to login to the website and after deleting CMS file from APPDATA\Roaming able to log back into Daz3d Installs UNTIL I installed DAZCentral After installing DAZCentral and trying to login to it with the working password and having it fail repeatedly tried DAZ3D again and the connection failed UNTIL I uninstalled DAZCentral. About as good as DIM. which ain't saying much.

  • i53570ki53570k Posts: 187

    My experience is not good.

    1. Not having an offline mode is a nonstarter for me.  Although DazCentral does connect far better than DIM, which I've had a lot of problems connecting, offline mode is a must for me.

    2. Altering my DIM settings without warning or guidemce of restoring DIM setting is ridiculous.  I have to read this thread from the begginng to figure out how.

    3. Still does not manage products not from daz3d.com.  So less functionality and a UI that has far too much noise.

  • UHFUHF Posts: 400
    UHF said:

    Wow.  That's a horrific amount of work.  I don't think I want to do that for you.

    Which? If you have current copies of the zips archived just plop 'em in the DIM Downloads folder, it may take a while for them to copy across if theya re on a separate drive but that doesn't require intervention so you can leave it working while you do other stuff. Run DIM to generate the file, again no further action required on your part, then optionally (if you don't want the zips on that drive permanently) sort by type and remove the zips. All doen bar any downloads, and you can select all updates with a single check box in the Ready To Download tab of DIM.

    I have close to 2 TB of Daz related files on my file server. (I only spend half my money here Richard.)  Its also sorted and of course mixed in with all the other materials. (You probably know that vendors on other websites offer things like texture updates to products sold here?)  So... I either do a MONSTER global copy from my file server (yes... a backed up file server at home), and walk away from my computer for a very long time, or I have to manually hunt through all the materials and desort them for your software.  Then, your software will scan, and I can delete the copies.  I probably can't do a monster copy since, it would be bigger than the remaining space on any single one of my PC's drives.

    My backups are messy, but not "stuffed into one single folder that I have to endlessly scroll through in order to find 1 item" messy.  Seriously.. If you did't know the name.. how could you find it?   It would be incredibly hard to find files if I backuped up files the way your software downloads.

    For instance, I decided to play with a product I had not used in a long long time. (I have a different work flow now, and it makes sense to take advantage of that.)  I clicked on it, and it had errors.  It was old, from a different site, and required a complicated install.  So the first step I performed was to determine what version I had, and go to the vendor site to determine if there were updates.  My version is correct.  However, since I've moved PCs in the last few months, this is likely an install issue, so I've got that product out, unpacked, and I'm reading the instructions.

  • UHFUHF Posts: 400
    UHF said:

    Wow.  That's a horrific amount of work.  I don't think I want to do that for you.

    Yes, it is - these issues are why DIM exists in the fist place. And I can see how it could be especially confusing for new users, too. That's how we got Connect, and now DazCentral.

    - Greg

    I do know and understand the origins of the thinking here.  A chunk of the target demographic is people who want to 'make art', but aren't terribly computer literate.

    1) Some people just don't get where files are on their computers, and how to handle them. (It's a tech support nightmare.)

    2) Manual installations can be annoying if you are litterally splatting those files on top of a live and useful library.  (I use a Test Install Library for this.)

    3) Some people do blow or damage their daz libraries, which by now, are rather considerable in size.. It can't be stated loudly enough that this is a serious concern.  Daz Forums used to be full of file system advice. I don't see that very much now.  But I do see rather frustrated posts when CMS databases go kaput. (keep them secret.. keep them safe.)

    4) scripts.. power laoders... isn't loading Genesis easier folks?

     

    Personally, I had the (mis)fortune to lose my library fairly early on.  At first I had been trying to memorize where all my content was without moving anything, and in the poser world it seemed odd, badly named, and ad hoc.  Some vendors would supply textures in directories with utterly different names and locations, even crypting spelling without vowels. For me, it was getting hard to find things by the time I lost my library.  For the rebuild (1 week), I installed everything via a Test Library, sorted each item to a usable location, and made sure textures, poses, 3rd party textures were all located where I could logically find them. Then I kept regular backups of the live library.  This works seamlessly for me, and I suspect it does for a lot of others.

    None of this explains to me why it is so hard, bordering on impossible, for Daz to display the version number of a product. I have not heard a logical reason from anyone yet.  I feel the answers are bordering on intentionally obtuse. "What?  People sort files?  Why?  When did that happen? Just download it, and don't touch it."

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,350
    UHF said:
    UHF said:

    Wow.  That's a horrific amount of work.  I don't think I want to do that for you.

    Yes, it is - these issues are why DIM exists in the fist place. And I can see how it could be especially confusing for new users, too. That's how we got Connect, and now DazCentral.

    - Greg

    I do know and understand the origins of the thinking here.  A chunk of the target demographic is people who want to 'make art', but aren't terribly computer literate.

    1) Some people just don't get where files are on their computers, and how to handle them. (It's a tech support nightmare.)

    2) Manual installations can be annoying if you are litterally splatting those files on top of a live and useful library.  (I use a Test Install Library for this.)

    3) Some people do blow or damage their daz libraries, which by now, are rather considerable in size.. It can't be stated loudly enough that this is a serious concern.  Daz Forums used to be full of file system advice. I don't see that very much now.  But I do see rather frustrated posts when CMS databases go kaput. (keep them secret.. keep them safe.)

    4) scripts.. power laoders... isn't loading Genesis easier folks?

     

    Personally, I had the (mis)fortune to lose my library fairly early on.  At first I had been trying to memorize where all my content was without moving anything, and in the poser world it seemed odd, badly named, and ad hoc.  Some vendors would supply textures in directories with utterly different names and locations, even crypting spelling without vowels. For me, it was getting hard to find things by the time I lost my library.  For the rebuild (1 week), I installed everything via a Test Library, sorted each item to a usable location, and made sure textures, poses, 3rd party textures were all located where I could logically find them. Then I kept regular backups of the live library.  This works seamlessly for me, and I suspect it does for a lot of others.

    None of this explains to me why it is so hard, bordering on impossible, for Daz to display the version number of a product. I have not heard a logical reason from anyone yet.  I feel the answers are bordering on intentionally obtuse. "What?  People sort files?  Why?  When did that happen? Just download it, and don't touch it."

    I understand what you're saying. To be honest, I have the same frustration when it comes to the installs for DS itself and the beta. I have a ritual (like I'm sure many others do) of downloading the installers and immediately renaming them to include the version (both to identify different versions and keep them from getting over-written).

    - Greg

  • bjoernb78bjoernb78 Posts: 123

    So I've downloaded DazCentral and think it's a good starter as everything worked for me so far.

    I already have feature requests for it:

    1.) More sorting options like in the store People and Wearables, Animals and Creatures, Places and Things, Animation and Poses and in Daz Studio's Smart Content library like , Environment, Figures, Hair ...
    2.) Support for product tags/keywords (that maybe can shared with others)
    3.) Option to print or pdf the chosen selection (as described in 1)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 6,831

    I updated Dim tonight.  & seen DazCentral in my content library. Thank you. But I PASS on DAZcentral   I am afraid of it trying to install a new copy of daz studio or other things I don't want installed.  like it did on Mary's (AKA memcneil70 system). I guess I still prefer to manual install everything and use dim for plugins.  I'm just to much of a nerd & I like to see what I am installing. Thanks anyways daz guys

  • Ron KnightsRon Knights Posts: 1,500

    Now I am even more confused. This thread states that DAZ Central is in beta. But I just got an email stating that DAZ Central is now our new Content Manager?! There is no mention of a Beta version... and nothing stating that DAZ Central is only available as a PC Version.

  • Leo LeeLeo Lee Posts: 163
    Nath said:

    Mine tells me I don't have Studio and offers to install it, despite being pointed to the correct existing install path.

     

     

    Me too, and after install it...

    ds-install-issue.jpg
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  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 19,013
    Leo Lee said:
    Nath said:

    Mine tells me I don't have Studio and offers to install it, despite being pointed to the correct existing install path.

     

     

    Me too, and after install it...

    DS was open when DazCentral installed it.  Make sure DS is closed, then uninstall and reinstall it.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 1,316

    No thank you.

  • Ron KnightsRon Knights Posts: 1,500

    I'm still amazed that DAZ never got DIM and Smart Content working properly before heading off with DAZ Central.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 75,886

    I'm still amazed that DAZ never got DIM and Smart Content working properly before heading off with DAZ Central.

    Leaving aside what is meant by properly, Daz Central is, as I understand it, built on the same core as Install Manager so generally fixes for one will benefit both.

  • TugpsxTugpsx Posts: 444

    Any fix for DC stating that Studio is not instaled. I have several versions of studio installed and DIM usually install my content correctly. i noticed that the folder location is using / instead of \ on windows. i wonder if this is contributing to that issue. Also noted that some of the "default" folders dont match up. Will try to customize locations to see if i can get it resolved.

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