Beta for DazCentral, your new Content Manager

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Comments

  • mrinalmrinal Posts: 620
    iMacabre said:
    mrinal said:

    That said, if you are uising SmartContent/Connect as your primary download option then not all items have the Connect install options and a quite a few of these content require DIM/manual download so they won't appear in SmartContent tab.

     

    How can I figure out which of my items are cannot be installed with Connect? I know about Victoria / Michel 4, but I don't use them and I don't care.

    There was a thread about it a while back: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/257606/finding-dim-manual-only-available-content-i-e-only-non-connect-ones

  • mrinalmrinal Posts: 620
    edited May 2020
    mindsong said:
    Sevrin said:

     

    mrinal said:

    Plugin installation/update support could have been added to SmartContent. V4/M4 capability and content development is pretty much frozen wrt Daz store, so once installed via DIM/manual don't require further maintenance. Doesn't justify building an entire "parallel" product for it.

    Yeah, I don't think ease-of-use is the point of this, but rather DRM.

    ...

    Never did see an answer to the multiple questions about Daz Central and ... 'foreign' content. This continued silence is likely to become an answer in itself.

    --ms

    That question is way easier asked than answered. Just to give an idea of the complexity involved:

    Automated access -
    Most marketplaces are designed and optimized for manual interactions and not for automated bulk access using any tool. Not all sites have the need nor the capability to handle automated downloads. In fact, several of these marketplaces may have safeguards to prevent such automated bulk access in order to avoid spikes of overload or prevent any DOS attack to their servers. Daz may be handling this scenario by routing calls from DIM/Studio to different servers than those that are used to access content catalog/description using web browser. So if you try to circumvent such site-wide measures using a tool, you risk getting flagged as a malicious user.

    Proprietary metadata -
    3rd party marketplaces sell their 3D content according to formats supported by popular tools used by professionals. Each additional format require additional effort from their publishers to support that format. For the few sites that support the Daz format (such as duf files) outside Daz, there is a severe lack of formalization to provide metadata that would facilitate categorization and searching inside studio. Publishers just get away with providing a path to access their content in the content library in a readme file and that have been deemed sufficient so far. As revolting as it may sound, but the support for arbitary manual installation of content diminishes the requirement for formal metadata. So in the absence of Daz prescribed metadata, your content is "invisible" to any tool that relies on the presence of it.

    Of course, there are further concerns regarding standardization of - access to content "repositories", federated content search/discovery using content "registries". But those challenges are way beyond the simple hurdles I mentioned above.

     

    Post edited by mrinal on
  • Noah LGPNoah LGP Posts: 2,361
    edited May 2020

    Is DazCentral compatible with DazConnect ?

    I mean detect the installed content in  [UserProfile]\Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio\My Daz Connect Library\data\cloud\ 

     

    Post edited by Noah LGP on
  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 3,453
    edited May 2020
    iMacabre said:
    mrinal said:

     

    Same here, never understood what's the point of DIM ever since DazConnect was introduced inside DazStudio itself and now this...

    Never saw the need for DazConnect other than as an effort to seize control 

    Post edited by Robert Freise on
  • ChangelingChickChangelingChick Posts: 2,509
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    DazCentral is designed to be the method that new users have their first introduction to Daz and its world of content. 

    My very first thought when I installed it to check it out was, "Wow! This would be great for new users!"   

  • Noah LGPNoah LGP Posts: 2,361
    edited May 2020
    iMacabre said:
    mrinal said:

     

    Same here, never understood what's the point of DIM ever since DazConnect was introduced inside DazStudio itself and now this...

    Never saw the need for DazConnect other than as an effort to seize control 

     

    Save diskspace 

    DIM = Useless Poser CF files and all the packages are stored by default.

    DazConnect = Only the Daz Studio files are installed. No package is stored, no Poser CF files. 

    Post edited by Noah LGP on
  • mrinalmrinal Posts: 620
    iMacabre said:
    mrinal said:

     

    Same here, never understood what's the point of DIM ever since DazConnect was introduced inside DazStudio itself and now this...

    Never saw the need for DazConnect other than as an effort to seize control 

    And I wonder how the idiom "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" gained prominence. Did anyone actually threw out a real baby ...ever?

  • ChangelingChickChangelingChick Posts: 2,509

    As to Daz Connect-- a lot of folks use it exclusively because they like to install within DS and uninstall the same way. They only want what they're using installed. 

  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 3,453
    edited May 2020
    Noah LGP said:
    iMacabre said:
    mrinal said:

     

    Same here, never understood what's the point of DIM ever since DazConnect was introduced inside DazStudio itself and now this...

    Never saw the need for DazConnect other than as an effort to seize control 

     

    Save diskspace 

    DIM = Useless Poser CF files and all the packages are stored by default.

    DazConnect = Only the Daz Studio files are installed. No package is stored, no Poser CF files. 

    Select automatically delete files after install if you don't want to have an archive that YOU control

    Select file types to be installed

    Daz Connect = no control over your files 

    Anyways we don't need to derail this thread over how useful or useless DIMM or DazConnect is compared to each other

    Post edited by Robert Freise on
  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232

    Too many stories of "now I'm installed, I know best where all your files and programs need to be" and auto-installing stuff that's already installed to make me comfortable.

    I've never needed Smart Content to find all my stuff because I've arranged it manually.

    I've never needed DIM to install all my stuff, because I do it manually.

    I've never wanted to use Connect because the way it works is too different from how I think.

    DAZCentral... guess what?

    Okay, it seems this is a set of training wheels for new users because they don't know what us old hands do about content installation and content library maintenance. Does it let new users understand what it's doing so they can become experienced users? Or is it training wheels forever?

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,040
    Noah LGP said:
    iMacabre said:
    mrinal said:

     

    Same here, never understood what's the point of DIM ever since DazConnect was introduced inside DazStudio itself and now this...

    Never saw the need for DazConnect other than as an effort to seize control 

     

    Save diskspace 

    DIM = Useless Poser CF files and all the packages are stored by default.

    It's your choice if you want to download CF files or whatever, and you can choose to delete packages after install with just one click.

     

  • mavantemavante Posts: 734
    DAZ_Jacob said:

    Can I use DazCentral with a Mac?

    Unfortunately, Mac isn’t a supported operating system at this time.  Mac users should continue to use DIM.

    Huh? Then why am I seeing "DazCentral Mac64" at the top of my Product Library list in my account? See attached.

    DazCentralMac64.jpg
    345 x 333 - 31K
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 17,468
    mavante said:
    DAZ_Jacob said:

    Can I use DazCentral with a Mac?

    Unfortunately, Mac isn’t a supported operating system at this time.  Mac users should continue to use DIM.

    Huh? Then why am I seeing "DazCentral Mac64" at the top of my Product Library list in my account? See attached.

    And why don't I see DazCentral at all in DIM? I have DIM 1.4.0.36.

  • MalandarMalandar Posts: 602
    barbult said:
    mavante said:
    DAZ_Jacob said:

    Can I use DazCentral with a Mac?

    Unfortunately, Mac isn’t a supported operating system at this time.  Mac users should continue to use DIM.

    Huh? Then why am I seeing "DazCentral Mac64" at the top of my Product Library list in my account? See attached.

    And why don't I see DazCentral at all in DIM? I have DIM 1.4.0.36.

    Shhh... DIM isn't supposed to know...

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 17,468
    Malandar said:
    barbult said:
    mavante said:
    DAZ_Jacob said:

    Can I use DazCentral with a Mac?

    Unfortunately, Mac isn’t a supported operating system at this time.  Mac users should continue to use DIM.

    Huh? Then why am I seeing "DazCentral Mac64" at the top of my Product Library list in my account? See attached.

    And why don't I see DazCentral at all in DIM? I have DIM 1.4.0.36.

    Shhh... DIM isn't supposed to know...

    Somehow I thought we were supposed to install it with DIM, because people talked about uninstalling it with DIM. I guess that would be dumb to install it with DIM, it this is supposed to allow new users to skip DIM.

  • Ghosty12Ghosty12 Posts: 1,638
    edited May 2020

    May have found one nasty bug where during installation the installer decided to do a system restart, if not for windows halting it and allowing me to cancel I would be rather angry.. Thing is when I tried again the installation went without a hitch so just to let you know about this..

    While Daz Central looks nice going to have to stick with DiM for content installation, since there seems to be no option in Daz Central to install content to custom folders..

    Post edited by Ghosty12 on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,264

    On a box running Windows 7 Pro:

    Automatic forced restart without the normal "Requires restart - do you want to do this now?". What is the thinking behind designing it this way?

    Spun for 3 min after launching and entering my credentials, until finally coming up saying I don't have DS installed (which I do) - no mention of what it was doing all that time. I almost killed it, but it should really tell you what it's doing.

    In the settings:

    Update Assets Automatically default as ON. This should be OFF by default.

    No mention of what version of DS it wants to install. When you click on Details, it does say 4.12, but that's as specific as it gets. The fact of the matter is that different versions break things and there are reasons people may not always want the latest version installed. This is especially important since past installers are not available to us unless we archive them oursleves.

    Not listed under "Uninstall or Change a Program". This is basic functionality and it should be listed there.

    Using the link it installed to "uninstall", I get an error message saying the uninstaller is not a valid program.

    So how do I uninstall this?

    - Greg

     

    I have not installed it because of that.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,264
    mrinal said:
    Sevrin said:

     

    mrinal said:

    Plugin installation/update support could have been added to SmartContent. V4/M4 capability and content development is pretty much frozen wrt Daz store, so once installed via DIM/manual don't require further maintenance. Doesn't justify building an entire "parallel" product for it.

    Yeah, I don't think ease-of-use is the point of this, but rather DRM.

    Smart Content works on metadata from the CMS which is managed by both the DIM and Connect installation process or if someone has manually added metadata for external items. So it is already decoupled from Connect to a large extent. But the de facto installation method with Smart Content is Connect and thats where the concerns are wrt to its reliance on DRM. If we can make it optional for Smart Content so that it could install using DIM paths then a lot of public perception around it could be improved and its barrier of adoption lowered. But a significant drawback with that option would be that it would no longer be able to do differential updates (a feature of Connect that saves bandwidth and time while downloading content updates of only updated files/metadata instead of the entire package all over again) and content installation in discrete directories. If we keep aside the concerns for DRM for a moment, Smart Content and Connect seemed a step in the right direction for content management.

    The fact DRM still exists in, is one reason Im not interested in Smart Content. It largely colours my perception of the product as a whole

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,264
    mrinal said:
    iMacabre said:
    mrinal said:

    That said, if you are uising SmartContent/Connect as your primary download option then not all items have the Connect install options and a quite a few of these content require DIM/manual download so they won't appear in SmartContent tab.

     

    How can I figure out which of my items are cannot be installed with Connect? I know about Victoria / Michel 4, but I don't use them and I don't care.

    There was a thread about it a while back: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/257606/finding-dim-manual-only-available-content-i-e-only-non-connect-ones

    use DIM to install everything and obvious anything is then not installed with Connect.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,264
    Ghosty12 said:

    May have found one nasty bug where during installation the installer decided to do a system restart, if not for windows halting it and allowing me to cancel I would be rather angry.. Thing is when I tried again the installation went without a hitch so just to let you know about this..

    While Daz Central looks nice going to have to stick with DiM for content installation, since there seems to be no option in Daz Central to install content to custom folders..

    That's a deal breaker.

    I wasn't going to bother until they'd removed the forced restart; if this is the case, I'm not interested at all.

  • Ghosty12Ghosty12 Posts: 1,638
    edited May 2020
    nicstt said:
    Ghosty12 said:

    May have found one nasty bug where during installation the installer decided to do a system restart, if not for windows halting it and allowing me to cancel I would be rather angry.. Thing is when I tried again the installation went without a hitch so just to let you know about this..

    While Daz Central looks nice going to have to stick with DiM for content installation, since there seems to be no option in Daz Central to install content to custom folders..

    That's a deal breaker.

    I wasn't going to bother until they'd removed the forced restart; if this is the case, I'm not interested at all.

    I am still putting this down to still being beta but there is no asset sorting either such as people, props, clothing and so on, all this really seems to be is just a really fancy version of the DiM that can't install to custom folders..

    Post edited by Ghosty12 on
  • pm3dpm3d Posts: 39

    My first impression is that I really like the look and feel of DazCentral. I am optimistic about it!

    I have two suggestions for improvement:

    1) I would like the ability to configure which version of Daz Studio is launched when an item is clicked. I would like DazCentral to launch the latest beta version of Daz Studio by default as that is what I mostly use.

    2) I would like the ability to perform more complex (e.g., boolean and metadata) searches. Like others, I have a fairly large content library. I would like to be able to search within current search results. Also, to be able to tag items from multiple searches and view all the tagged items as their own group or category would be very handy.

    Going forwards, I will use DazCentral as much as possible. However, it will need to have the same functionality as DIM before I switch permanently to DazCentral - I have come to really appreciate what DIM can do!

  • Ghosty12Ghosty12 Posts: 1,638
    pm3d said:

    My first impression is that I really like the look and feel of DazCentral. I am optimistic about it!

    I have two suggestions for improvement:

    1) I would like the ability to configure which version of Daz Studio is launched when an item is clicked. I would like DazCentral to launch the latest beta version of Daz Studio by default as that is what I mostly use.

    2) I would like the ability to perform more complex (e.g., boolean and metadata) searches. Like others, I have a fairly large content library. I would like to be able to search within current search results. Also, to be able to tag items from multiple searches and view all the tagged items as their own group or category would be very handy.

    Going forwards, I will use DazCentral as much as possible. However, it will need to have the same functionality as DIM before I switch permanently to DazCentral - I have come to really appreciate what DIM can do!

    I am the same, I will use Daz Central more when it has the features that DiM currently has such as custom folder install, and new features such as better sorting of content into catagories..

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 76,057

    This is priceless. DAZ hasn't yet produced a good Content Manager. postgresql cms still doesn't work on a Mac. Now you're introducing DAZCentral which won't work on a Mac. Has DAZ stopped supporting Macs? Shouldn't you get one product working before moving onto a replacement?

    PostgreSQL does work on the Mac, though there have recently been some (fixable) configuration issues that seem to affect new installs.

    mindsong said:
    Sevrin said:

     

    mrinal said:

    Plugin installation/update support could have been added to SmartContent. V4/M4 capability and content development is pretty much frozen wrt Daz store, so once installed via DIM/manual don't require further maintenance. Doesn't justify building an entire "parallel" product for it.

    Yeah, I don't think ease-of-use is the point of this, but rather DRM.

    ding ding ding...

    You can't ding ding ding something that plainly isn't correct, and has been confirmed to be incorrect.

    mindsong said:

    exactly who asked for this? anyone?

    I could see this as a good long-term strategy for DAZ and its future customers, but I honestly don't think the voices in these forums were asking for this 'feature' over other improvements  - e.g. clean DS shutdowns, animations that load the way they were saved, BVH loading/saving that works, etc...

    Of course I understand that priorities are likely to differ and the future is not the past, even if for its own sake. The natural tension of the marketplace continues. Vote accordingly.

    I would recommend to the mothership that manual downloads and DIM remain enabled over the long-term, else another 'connect'-like event is likely to be looming should that change.

    Never did see an answer to the multiple questions about Daz Central and ... 'foreign' content. This continued silence is likely to become an answer in itself.

    --ms

    It is for new users who have trouble with the options in DIM, as explained above. Since it uses the same system as DIM (just with a streamlined UI, as explained above) it will presumably not do anything with content that isn't set up to work in DIM - I dion't know if it will work with the small number of items from other sites thata re set up to work with DIM, though.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 76,057
    Ghosty12 said:
    pm3d said:

    My first impression is that I really like the look and feel of DazCentral. I am optimistic about it!

    I have two suggestions for improvement:

    1) I would like the ability to configure which version of Daz Studio is launched when an item is clicked. I would like DazCentral to launch the latest beta version of Daz Studio by default as that is what I mostly use.

    2) I would like the ability to perform more complex (e.g., boolean and metadata) searches. Like others, I have a fairly large content library. I would like to be able to search within current search results. Also, to be able to tag items from multiple searches and view all the tagged items as their own group or category would be very handy.

    Going forwards, I will use DazCentral as much as possible. However, it will need to have the same functionality as DIM before I switch permanently to DazCentral - I have come to really appreciate what DIM can do!

    I am the same, I will use Daz Central more when it has the features that DiM currently has such as custom folder install, and new features such as better sorting of content into catagories..

    As was expalined earlier, this is aimed at new uers who find DIM overwhelming - so I think we can be confident that it won't be getting all the options DIM has. DIM will continue to be avaialble for those who need the additional options.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,351

    Since the uninstall program that is linked to in the start menu is a 0KB file, could you please provide a file list, a list of registry entries, and a list of any other system configurations/settings that were modified when this was installed so it can be removed/undone?

    Thanks.

    - Greg

  • GiGi_7GiGi_7 Posts: 1,275
    mrinal said:
    mindsong said:
    Sevrin said:

     

    mrinal said:

    Plugin installation/update support could have been added to SmartContent. V4/M4 capability and content development is pretty much frozen wrt Daz store, so once installed via DIM/manual don't require further maintenance. Doesn't justify building an entire "parallel" product for it.

    Yeah, I don't think ease-of-use is the point of this, but rather DRM.

    ...

    Never did see an answer to the multiple questions about Daz Central and ... 'foreign' content. This continued silence is likely to become an answer in itself.

    --ms

    That question is way easier asked than answered. Just to give an idea of the complexity involved:

    Automated access -
    Most marketplaces are designed and optimized for manual interactions and not for automated bulk access using any tool. Not all sites have the need nor the capability to handle automated downloads. In fact, several of these marketplaces may have safeguards to prevent such automated bulk access in order to avoid spikes of overload or prevent any DOS attack to their servers. Daz may be handling this scenario by routing calls from DIM/Studio to different servers than those that are used to access content catalog/description using web browser. So if you try to circumvent such site-wide measures using a tool, you risk getting flagged as a malicious user.

    Proprietary metadata -
    3rd party marketplaces sell their 3D content according to formats supported by popular tools used by professionals. Each additional format require additional effort from their publishers to support that format. For the few sites that support the Daz format (such as duf files) outside Daz, there is a severe lack of formalization to provide metadata that would facilitate categorization and searching inside studio. Publishers just get away with providing a path to access their content in the content library in a readme file and that have been deemed sufficient so far. As revolting as it may sound, but the support for arbitary manual installation of content diminishes the requirement for formal metadata. So in the absence of Daz prescribed metadata, your content is "invisible" to any tool that relies on the presence of it.

    Of course, there are further concerns regarding standardization of - access to content "repositories", federated content search/discovery using content "registries". But those challenges are way beyond the simple hurdles I mentioned above.

     

    With a tool making metadata before installation is enough. I use for rendo products and freebies a  Rstudio script to create metadata, manifest, support files, generate ID and introduce a custom category, then I zip all and set in DIM package folder, and DIM install the product. So, If I can do it, daz can do it better. The same using Riversoft content wizard plus doctot jellybean content package (I can't afford the money for these so I needed be creative and write my own primitive version)

    In fact, we don't need DIM if we don't care about the capacity of uninstalling or be tired reading the metadata in Daz Studio. A well made metadata is enough..

  • GiGi_7GiGi_7 Posts: 1,275
    Ghosty12 said:
    pm3d said:

     

    As was expalined earlier, this is aimed at new uers who find DIM overwhelming - so I think we can be confident that it won't be getting all the options DIM has. DIM will continue to be avaialble for those who need the additional options.

    It is good to know. The tool is a good replace for begginers for the product library web page in our daz account instead of being a suitable content install manager.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,709
    nicstt said:
    mrinal said:
    Sevrin said:

     

    mrinal said:

    Plugin installation/update support could have been added to SmartContent. V4/M4 capability and content development is pretty much frozen wrt Daz store, so once installed via DIM/manual don't require further maintenance. Doesn't justify building an entire "parallel" product for it.

    Yeah, I don't think ease-of-use is the point of this, but rather DRM.

    Smart Content works on metadata from the CMS which is managed by both the DIM and Connect installation process or if someone has manually added metadata for external items. So it is already decoupled from Connect to a large extent. But the de facto installation method with Smart Content is Connect and thats where the concerns are wrt to its reliance on DRM. If we can make it optional for Smart Content so that it could install using DIM paths then a lot of public perception around it could be improved and its barrier of adoption lowered. But a significant drawback with that option would be that it would no longer be able to do differential updates (a feature of Connect that saves bandwidth and time while downloading content updates of only updated files/metadata instead of the entire package all over again) and content installation in discrete directories. If we keep aside the concerns for DRM for a moment, Smart Content and Connect seemed a step in the right direction for content management.

    The fact DRM still exists in, is one reason Im not interested in Smart Content. It largely colours my perception of the product as a whole

    Smart Content was around for many years before DazConnect/DRM arrived. The two are completely different beasts. I use Smart Content a huge amount, but none of my content has been installed by Connect.

  • evacynevacyn Posts: 737
    Ghosty12 said:
    pm3d said:

    My first impression is that I really like the look and feel of DazCentral. I am optimistic about it!

    I have two suggestions for improvement:

    1) I would like the ability to configure which version of Daz Studio is launched when an item is clicked. I would like DazCentral to launch the latest beta version of Daz Studio by default as that is what I mostly use.

    2) I would like the ability to perform more complex (e.g., boolean and metadata) searches. Like others, I have a fairly large content library. I would like to be able to search within current search results. Also, to be able to tag items from multiple searches and view all the tagged items as their own group or category would be very handy.

    Going forwards, I will use DazCentral as much as possible. However, it will need to have the same functionality as DIM before I switch permanently to DazCentral - I have come to really appreciate what DIM can do!

    I am the same, I will use Daz Central more when it has the features that DiM currently has such as custom folder install, and new features such as better sorting of content into catagories..

    As was expalined earlier, this is aimed at new uers who find DIM overwhelming - so I think we can be confident that it won't be getting all the options DIM has. DIM will continue to be avaialble for those who need the additional options.

    I get that, but I think the OP and title of this thread should be edited for clarity to include 'for new users' since that's the target audience.
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