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...the one thing that limits V4 in my book is the ability to make use of clothing content other than that expressly rigged for her, without a third party conversion tool, character licences/packs (which are often hit and miss, and frequently require a additional manual adjustments with either DFormers or in a modelling app). I will agree V4.2, along with the other base characters (Aiko4, Girl4, She Freak4, Steph4 - who finally solved the petite breast issue with the NPMs) was in effect a "Proto-Genesis" female. But again for me it came to being limited to pretty much only V4 clothing, a good portion of it inappropriate for a younger character like I was developing. Added to this were poor fits in the chest region as most V4 clothing was designed for a more "well endowed" figure. The only solution was to again use a third party conversion tool, mess around with DFormers (which I could never get to work right), or purchase the "Unimesh fits" (effectively purchasing the same clothing again). The bottom line, it took a much greater investment (in resources) to create and dress my teen/preteen characters using V4 than with Genesis. That doesn't include the joint fixes either.
I will admit that with G2F there is a morphs/shape expansion already available which allows one to create a child preteen or older teen without having to wait for a "G2child" or "G2Teen" to be released. However with the return to a gender specific figure the ability to fit other clothing has once again been limited (Genesis "classic" and V4) until more fully modelled clone shapes (including male figures) become available.
Back to the topic, looking at the list from Dawn's Starter Morphs (again as I mentioned in my other post above) it appears I will already have a basis for creating a petite character that neither V4 or Genesis offered through their "++/Evolution" morph expansions. I agree with others here, this is the first ever release and of course there will be issues. Heck even the Vicky 4 menitoned above (4.2) is a revision of the original Victoria 4, and there was also that a V4.2 command line update tool released after that which needed to be run after installing.
One thing I do notice is the full list price of the Dawn Starter Morphs (her "++" morphs) is half that of the G2F head/body morphs (with the PC discount). so I feel the add ons are being priced quite fairly in comparison. And no sooner than Dawn is released but there is a teen character already available who actually looks like a teenager (by a PA whom I do not consider being "second tier"). There's also RawArt's (another PA highly respected here) Mini Morph sets which are specifically for Daz Studio and are very affordable even without the new product discount (one of which has definitely caught my interest).
Again this is only the beginning and I'm willing to give Dawn more of a chance.
Hi Mercedesk
What are you using to make your morphs? I think the nose should have been less distinctive out of the box. Other than making a softer chin and "daintier" lower face, the nose was the first thing I changed.
I've made several alternate noses for her using Zbrush, but I can't say how easy it would be with other programs
I think one of the Dawn characters for sale has a more generic nose-that might offer an easier starting point.
However.... I spent an entire DAY and a half with her. From that time, I feel that she most certainly needs more work. I tried to morph her face into various features I often use, and her NOSE is a WRECK! Worse NOSE ever when it comes to morphing and shaping.
While I like her mouth as she is, only the most experienced character creators will be able to challenge it. As I'm just learning, I found it difficult to work with. But I'll continue to try.
I was spinning dials in Daz Studio, and then tried it in Poser Pro 2014. Her nose doesn't broaden well. I wanted to give her a more ethnic look. I thought it might be just my morphing skills, although I don't do so bad with the dialing up features. Then I looked at the 10 faces morph package at Rendo... and knew it wasn't just me. These were done by OOT who are good at what they do. But those faces - and specially the noses, look terrible!
BUT... everyone has a different P.O.V - so to others they may look great. However, when I tried morphing her features to what i wanted, I kept getting rigid straight lines and pinching and sharpness that turned me right off. Maybe they are getting ready to release a bigger Head morphing package that will set her up better - but for now, nothing tempts me to invest in her.
I am just in charge of the web stuff so I don't know what the position is on redistribution of clones. I can imagine (note, this is hypothetical, I don't actually know the details at all on this topic) what some of their reservations would be to allowing it, like items made for Gen1 or Gen2 bought from here that don't work on Dawn because of differences in the model or conversion problems, and that creating an increase in returns and technical support issues. I would contact customer service for clarification on it since, odds are, they already have the answer from our product development group which I haven't heard about.
I am just in charge of the web stuff so I don't know what the position is on redistribution of clones. I can imagine (note, this is hypothetical, I don't actually know the details at all on this topic) what some of their reservations would be to allowing it, like items made for Gen1 or Gen2 bought from here that don't work on Dawn because of differences in the model or conversion problems, and that creating an increase in returns and technical support issues. I would contact customer service for clarification on it since, odds are, they already have the answer from our product development group which I haven't heard about.
Thank you. As for fear of things that don't work I made a morph/clone that autofits almost everything except, so far, gloves and some neck things. While it might be my hope and possible overconfidence speaking, I suspect that the number of returns for V4/G1/G2 things won't be drastically higher if clones are to be allowed.
Oh- I did not see any face morph packages for her at Rendo-I'll have to take a look. I've been moving the polygons around directly.
Oh-I misread you- the 10 faces morph set-is 10 faces not 10 morph packs. It would have been better to have a face morphs ++ set.
Here's a Dawn Dark Elf character I just made. I used the ELF ears that came with the package-but the face shaping is my own polygon moving.
I bought the Dawn Starter Stack because i wanted to show support for Steve and Chris and the gang, and RawArt's morphs and poses because... well... he's Rawn! :D
I checked the other sites and of the few things that appealed to me only 2 from RO and 1 from RDNA were for DS. In the end I decided I didn't like them all that much and didn't buy. It turned out the way I figured from the beginning... mostly Poser support and very little DS.... so far, at least. I'll still check the sites out and buy if something is DS ready... not just DS capable with tweaking.
I can't speak to comparing her to V4 since I haven't used her since Genesis came out, but for me, she doesn't come close to Genesis/G2F. My opinion only, Dawn with her morphs can be made pretty cool for what I like and with better textures she can be ok. She doesn't bend as well as Gen1 or G2F though that may come in time.
All in all, for me Dawn is a good secondary character just like Teri Yuki or Amity or Nursoda's characters, but Genesis and G2F with Gia and soon Girl 6 (Where is she DAZ?! I've been waiting! LOL) are still my main characters by a wide margin.
But I'm truly happy for Poser users that couldn't or wouldn't use Genesis. May you all be as happy with Dawn as I am with G/G2F! :)
It's been bugging me for a day, Dawn looks like *somebody*. Then today I saw the obituaries for Karen Black. Dawn looks like a young Karen Black.
A bit. Kinda hard to find a photograph of a very young version of her to compare.
Can someone post a screen grab of her mesh with lines visible? I'd like to see the nose and lips esp. Some of the morphs I've seen for sale over at RDNA and 'Rosity look... harsh and not all that pretty. Makes me wonder, since both merchants are good at what they do, if they too are having issues dealing with perhaps some lack of geometry in all the right places or maybe they rushed out the products.
Did a couple of renders (Dawn with Starter Morphs, Alexis for Dawn).
She still needs more morph packs, especially for the face but Dawn isn't unattractive.
Why 3D Universe decided not to include nipple textures for Alexis, I don't understand. Alexis also won't take on standard Dawn clothing as far as I can tell (in Poser Pro 2012) which makes her limited to the provided outfit and I'm not happy about this.
I have mentioned this in comparison to 2K hockey that was king over EA when it was owned by Sega & driven down the toilet when 2K sports acquired it there is no more 2K hockey... I think Daz with their decision / marketing process may 2K hockey themselves...
That kind of looks like a Reese Witherspoon caricature
There's some resemblance. I keep seeing bits of MIlla Jovovitch, with some Megan Fox and Katie Sackhoff in her Starbuck days thrown in.
This.
I recently got Poser 2012 on sale to learn it, and when I went to their content site and saw their models, it brought an old joke to mind, "The man saw his horse was depressed so he asked it, 'why the long face?'" Admittedly Dawn isn't as bad as those models, so I can see where people that want a more modern figure native to Poser may get excited about her, but really she's no V4.
The character morphs I saw looked like someone played with silly putty. Her original face has a flatness in the nose bridge that's odd, and her nasal septum looks cut. The morphs I saw exaggerated these problems. When I look at V6 and Gia now, I have a whole new appreciation for the artistry at Daz. If I'm looking for a Native figure for Poser, V4 beats her visually hands down, both in her native state and the quality of the morphs I see.
And that's what I saw before I even noticed the lack of support for Studio in what was being offered on 3rd party sites. Which doesn't surprise me since some vendors are mostly Poser-centric and don't use Studio. Not that I fault them, I just won't buy products that don't support what I need. It seems to me that the claim that she's native to both is little more than marketing hype.
She doesn't have more clothing options than G2F despite some complaints I've seen. (not to mention the vast amount of V4 clothing) And i can autofit really well from Gen 1 and V4 to G2F.
She doesn't have a male figure (using a male morph isn't a solution) and if the do make a male counterpart, it still won't be the same as Genesis1. Honestly the lack of an interchangeable male figure for G2F doesn't bother me, since I would rather the figure do what it does best. I can only hope that when they introduce M6 the clothes autofit over to it for certain items.
Dawn doesn't bring anything new or unique to the table, that I can't already get with V4 Gen1 and G2F, and in many cases is a step down, so why would I wan't to invest in her?
Well, she’s almost an androgynous base too. :)
This should help: TBH, I've been playing with Dawn in both ZBrush and Hexagon since release, and haven't run into any unexpected issues in the face at all. This is Base setting, so of course it rounds out a little more when subdivided.
I think this is where I should say, I'm left scratching my head.. Not at the release of Dawn, but at the market that supports the release of new female figures at a more than double rate of the release of male figures.
I mean, now that I've got Genesis, I really have no interest in the release of new figures as this one can be anything I want, but it seems to me that this cycle of new female figures is fueled more by 3D content purchase addiction than anything else. The desire for continuous new things is alien to me, but then I'm autistic so there's plenty I don't understand about "normal" human nature..
With Gen3 Iconic Shapes and Genesis, the ten+ years I've been collecting 3D content is kept from having been a waste of time. I can still buy new content when something comes along that I don't already have half a dozen versions of, but I don't get the need to have the newest toy as soon as it comes out..
To add to that Mike Lux can give old product new life case & point this freebie v3 hair I collected when I was starting out 4 years age. With Lux it looks real good http://fav.me/d5o3d3o http://fav.me/d5o3d2i
I see lots of harsh criticisms-without renders to back up the statements.
"Try sitting position"-so I did, expecting to scream with horror at the results. :-) Uhm, no.
Dawn sitting. Where is this bad? I'm not seeing poor bends-or a Male in the render.
Try a sitting position. Or a fetal position.
If those hips/thighs are acceptable to you, fine. Since this is a humanoid figure, I want something looking similar to the images below.
Greetings,
That's why I rendered Dawn (as Alexis) as a rogue kneeling in a ruined gazebo. I did the pose myself, and I suck at coming up with my own poses, so I could watch for any issues. It looked as good as anything I've done with Genesis or G2F, which is entirely possibly a comment on my own capabilities, but honestly a pressured kneeling position looked fine.
Now I've heard some mumblings that there's a pivot point problem in the hip (which would have shown up in my render) and that Alexis already has a fix for it, so it's possible I dodged a bullet by using that figure instead of the base.
But still, precious few renders showing the ghastly performance. (Your render is kinda ghastly, but mainly for the heavy makeup and no hair!)
She'll probably remain a specialized character for me, as another quality weight-mapped character in DAZ Studio, I can't use/pose V4 to save my life; serious loathing there, so I'm happy to get another usable base that might have unique stuff. But I happily switch between Genesis and G2F depending on what I need, so another figure doesn't hurt.
-- Morgan
This should help: TBH, I've been playing with Dawn in both ZBrush and Hexagon since release, and haven't run into any unexpected issues in the face at all. This is Base setting, so of course it rounds out a little more when subdivided.
OMG, the mesh is really nice. I don't see how anyone could be getting any sharp lines in their morphs at all. There is more mesh in the nose than in Genesis and well my Genesis morphs for the nose are good with no harsh anything!
Thanks so much for posting!
Roughly based on the second reference pic.
Since Dawn's (left/first image) thigh pivot point is too low, the legs ended up much longer than G2F (right/second image), even though they're the SAME height in zero pose. JCM may fix how the bend is shaped, but it doesn't do anything about the hip/thigh/leg proportions.
The thing is that you're actually reacting in a perfectly rational manner. If something's good enough for what you want and you don't feel that there's something lacking, then there really isn't a reason to go out and buy the latest new toy. Especially since, unlike cars and computers, digital figures don't wear out. Go to the Japanese Poser sights and you'll still see a lot of great work still being done with Aiko 3, Miki, Laura and so on.
Of course, if no one buys the latest new dealybob, then companies like DAZ don't make as much money, so there's always the promise of more "this" and better "that"... coupled with the "special sale, now for the low, low price."
I think that once Dawn gets more matured and fixes come for this and that and more content is made then the better it is.. The reason there seems to be more stuff for Poser than Studio is that Poser users have not had a decent 3rd party figure that does not require a special script to use since Victoria 4..
But you may say but hey you can use Genesis, yes we can but since Poser 10 / Poser Pro 2014. The DSON script does not work the well in it (at least for me) in that the DSON script has not been updated to work better in P10/PP2014..
So with Dawn being as she is and working natively in Poser with no need for special scripts then there will be some happy people in the Poser community..
Have you gone to the properties tab of the clothing and ticked the include morphs when conforming, include scales when conforming, match end points when conforming boxes and so on?
This will or should scale the clothing to fit the smaller character..