Penny 8

gremlin-2297907

I just want some decent damned foot morphs for this generation. The hands are beautiful but the feet are terrible! Beauty fingers and toes is needed for this generation!

gremlin-2297907

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

nonesuch00

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

Not really, the render style looks alike and that dominates what is noticed because seeing renders is not so typical. If one because really immersed in rendering than like different people in photographs being easy to recognize as different so would it be easier to recognize different models in renders. There are far fewer of them though so that is very limiting.

nicstt

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

Depends who you talk to, and what your definition of same is; do you mean similar?

 

agent unawares said:

nicstt said:

agent unawares said:

nicstt said:

I don't understand really when folks talk about distinctive; no matter how unique the character that Daz produces, they've sold hundreds and maybe thoudands of them. When there are so many in existence, distinctive? Not really when there are so many looking the same, as a look at Deviant Art will show one.

Distinctive:

https://www.daz3d.com/benita-for-victoria-8
https://www.daz3d.com/uchenna-for-genesis-8-female
https://www.daz3d.com/syble-hd-for-genesis-8-female (ymmv but this body shape is different from a lot out there)
https://www.daz3d.com/pei-and-pei-suit-for-genesis-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/ollie-8
https://www.daz3d.com/ronen-character-hair-and-briefs-for-genesis-8-male
https://www.daz3d.com/fiore-for-genesis-8-male
https://www.daz3d.com/george-for-genesis-8-male

Anyone indigenous to the US would instantly be distinctive, due to the fact that there are none of them for recent generations. None. While we're at it, Middle Eastern is basically not there either. So anyone looking to make distinctive characters, as in "doesn't look like anything else on the market," there's your huge untapped group of looks.

My point was; as an example, Daz sells a 1000 Ollie 8, yet if one renders un-tweaked, there are going to be 999 the same out there.

That has nothing to do with why people want distinctive characters, though.

nicstt said:

My second point: Every single character is distinctive; the fact they may be considered similar doesn't stop them being distinctive as they can be told apart

Are they though? If I render one of the DAZ flagship girls, are you going to be able to tell me if it's V8, O8, S8, or P8 without looking to compare?

I didn't say I would know which was which, only that I can tell them apart; the main criteria of distinctive.

agent unawares said:

For reference, this is the definition of distinctive in question:

having or giving an uncommon and appealing quality, Merriam Webster

having a special quality, style, attractiveness, etc.; notable, Dictionary.com

easy to recognize because of being different from other people or things of the same type, Macmillan Dictionary

Being able to tell two figures are different figures if they're standing next to each other doesn't even come close to cutting it.

Of course it does;

As all those are subjective; what is appealing to one, is not to another; what is attractive to one, is not to another, and so on. The third one is less subjective, but still depends on how familiar one is with the geno-type; a caucasion, or any other ethnic type will find (as a rule) characteristics they have been exposed to the most easier to distinguish.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/distinctive

They state "Characteristic of one person or thing, and so serving to distinguish it from others." Differences can be subtle; twins, outside of their own close circle can be taken for identical - yet they are never 100% identical.

The fact something is more or less distinctive to you doesn't make it so; that again is subjective, and so open to opinion.

... All it needs to be is not literally identical.

(I'm going to guess that we're not going to agree, and so suggest we leave it as-is.)

nicstt

edit

j cade

agent unawares said:

 

Are they though? If I render one of the DAZ flagship girls, are you going to be able to tell me if it's V8, O8, S8, or P8 without looking to compare?

 

I mean, yes? Pretty easily? It might take a few extra seconds without textures? Strictly speaking I think Penny and Steph are a bit less interesting looking to me personally. Steph in particular I find pretty blandly pretty, But I could still identify her.

 

I have to say between the comments to the effect of "its impossible to tell figures apart" and some of the suggestions in the celebrity look-alike thread I cand decide if I'm overly exacting when I look at faces or a lot of other people aren't exacting enough

agent unawares

nicstt said:

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

Depends who you talk to, and what your definition of same is; do you mean similar?

 

agent unawares said:

nicstt said:

agent unawares said:

nicstt said:

I don't understand really when folks talk about distinctive; no matter how unique the character that Daz produces, they've sold hundreds and maybe thoudands of them. When there are so many in existence, distinctive? Not really when there are so many looking the same, as a look at Deviant Art will show one.

Distinctive:

https://www.daz3d.com/benita-for-victoria-8
https://www.daz3d.com/uchenna-for-genesis-8-female
https://www.daz3d.com/syble-hd-for-genesis-8-female (ymmv but this body shape is different from a lot out there)
https://www.daz3d.com/pei-and-pei-suit-for-genesis-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/ollie-8
https://www.daz3d.com/ronen-character-hair-and-briefs-for-genesis-8-male
https://www.daz3d.com/fiore-for-genesis-8-male
https://www.daz3d.com/george-for-genesis-8-male

Anyone indigenous to the US would instantly be distinctive, due to the fact that there are none of them for recent generations. None. While we're at it, Middle Eastern is basically not there either. So anyone looking to make distinctive characters, as in "doesn't look like anything else on the market," there's your huge untapped group of looks.

My point was; as an example, Daz sells a 1000 Ollie 8, yet if one renders un-tweaked, there are going to be 999 the same out there.

That has nothing to do with why people want distinctive characters, though.

nicstt said:

My second point: Every single character is distinctive; the fact they may be considered similar doesn't stop them being distinctive as they can be told apart

Are they though? If I render one of the DAZ flagship girls, are you going to be able to tell me if it's V8, O8, S8, or P8 without looking to compare?

I didn't say I would know which was which, only that I can tell them apart; the main criteria of distinctive.

agent unawares said:

For reference, this is the definition of distinctive in question:

having or giving an uncommon and appealing quality, Merriam Webster

having a special quality, style, attractiveness, etc.; notable, Dictionary.com

easy to recognize because of being different from other people or things of the same type, Macmillan Dictionary

Being able to tell two figures are different figures if they're standing next to each other doesn't even come close to cutting it.

Of course it does;

As all those are subjective; what is appealing to one, is not to another; what is attractive to one, is not to another, and so on. The third one is less subjective, but still depends on how familiar one is with the geno-type; a caucasion, or any other ethnic type will find (as a rule) characteristics they have been exposed to the most easier to distinguish.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/distinctive

They state "Characteristic of one person or thing, and so serving to distinguish it from others." Differences can be subtle; twins, outside of their own close circle can be taken for identical - yet they are never 100% identical.

The fact something is more or less distinctive to you doesn't make it so; that again is subjective, and so open to opinion.

... All it needs to be is not literally identical.

(I'm going to guess that we're not going to agree, and so suggest we leave it as-is.)

That Oxford definition is the definition of distinctive when applied to a characteristic of a person or thing, not when applied to the person or thing. No one said DAZ characters don't have distinctive qualities, only that a lot of them are not distinctive, i.e., they are not "easy to recognize because of being different from other people or things of the same type." As even you said, you are not sure you could tell which one was rendered without comparing to others. "Able to tell apart" is not the requirement for distinctiveness, only a single very slightly distinctive characteristic is required to do that.

"Differences can be subtle; twins, outside of their own close circle can be taken for identical - yet they are never 100% identical." As you've ably noted, twins are not distinctive compared to each other.

agent unawares

j cade said:

agent unawares said:

 

Are they though? If I render one of the DAZ flagship girls, are you going to be able to tell me if it's V8, O8, S8, or P8 without looking to compare?

 

I mean, yes? Pretty easily? It might take a few extra seconds without textures? Strictly speaking I think Penny and Steph are a bit less interesting looking to me personally. Steph in particular I find pretty blandly pretty, But I could still identify her.

Well then, I'll render one of them when I get back home and if you can tell who it is without looking at other references I'll eat my words.

FSMCDesigns

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

To me they don't look the same and it is fairly easy to change the looks

Artini

Penny 8 with https://www.daz3d.com/short-wet-hair-for-genesis-8-male-s-and-female-s

Cortex

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

I find many of this generation Daz original base female models have large jaws and a tall strong look compared to the cuter look of gen 7.

Gen 8 also seem to be a bit older and often get secondary creases on their cheeks when they smile (look at the store pics of teen Josie 8)

Personally I find most gen 7 base models more attractive than their gen 8 equivalent but thats just me and others will have different ideals.

 

Obviously this doesnt apply to all gen 8 base models - Karyssa and Sakura are amazingly cute - and of course you can mix their cuteness in to the other characters.

FSMCDesigns

Cortex said:

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

I find many of this generation Daz original main female models have large jaws and a tall strong look compared to the cuter rounder look of gen 7.

Gen 8 also seem to be a bit older and often get secondary creases on their cheeks when they smile (look at the store pics of teen Josie 8)

Its just this Gens style I guess or maybe they have the same creator ?

 

Obviously this doesnt apply to all - Karyssa and Sakura are amazingly cute.

Again, this can all be easily changed with some morphs and a few spins of a few sliders. It's like many users feel that what you buy is what you get and they seem to make a buying decision based on that alone and that is so far from the truth. I wonder how many users, if any have quite a few if not all the DAZ addon characters and yet don't have the basic head and body morphs

agent unawares

FSMCDesigns said:

Cortex said:

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

I find many of this generation Daz original main female models have large jaws and a tall strong look compared to the cuter rounder look of gen 7.

Gen 8 also seem to be a bit older and often get secondary creases on their cheeks when they smile (look at the store pics of teen Josie 8)

Its just this Gens style I guess or maybe they have the same creator ?

 

Obviously this doesnt apply to all - Karyssa and Sakura are amazingly cute.

Again, this can all be easily changed with some morphs and a few spins of a few sliders.

This is a really weird argument.

"I don't like buying characters that look the same."

"Well you can make them look different by adding other morphs you already bought."

How does that add actual value to buying two copies of very similar morphs? You can already change the one you have.

j cade

agent unawares said:

FSMCDesigns said:

Cortex said:

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

I find many of this generation Daz original main female models have large jaws and a tall strong look compared to the cuter rounder look of gen 7.

Gen 8 also seem to be a bit older and often get secondary creases on their cheeks when they smile (look at the store pics of teen Josie 8)

Its just this Gens style I guess or maybe they have the same creator ?

 

Obviously this doesnt apply to all - Karyssa and Sakura are amazingly cute.

Again, this can all be easily changed with some morphs and a few spins of a few sliders.

This is a really weird argument.

"I don't like buying characters that look the same."

"Well you can make them look different by adding other morphs you already bought."

How does that add actual value to buying two copies of very similar morphs? You can already change the one you have.

I think it makes sense depending on what you want view the value of the characters to be. Personally I find the utility of the Daz sculpts to be the *finer details*. I think you'd probably agree that shifting the proportions of Victoria into something more average is way easier than taking a figure with Victoria's general proportions and morphing it into an exact likeness of Victoria. Likewise making the jaw width narrower is pretty simple, much simpler than adjusting a bunch of fine detail in the nose or eyelid shape.

It's honestly not so much of a Daz morphs thing as a custom morphs are easier to get more exact detail and whoever does the Daz morphs happens to be pretty good (seriously I'm always strangely impressed with the noses, mainly because I'm really bad at morphing noses).

j cade

Also FWIW I will add I certainly wouldn't mind if the there were daz ladies that were less conventionally pretty I'd love more things like shallow set eyes or low straight brows (Penny has thin lips, that's pretty exciting)

barbult

ANGELREAPER1972 said:

https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/563031

Do you have DOF turned on in your rendering camera? It looks like the focal distance is set incorrectly. Penny looks blurry to me here.

agent unawares

j cade said:

agent unawares said:

FSMCDesigns said:

Cortex said:

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

I find many of this generation Daz original main female models have large jaws and a tall strong look compared to the cuter rounder look of gen 7.

Gen 8 also seem to be a bit older and often get secondary creases on their cheeks when they smile (look at the store pics of teen Josie 8)

Its just this Gens style I guess or maybe they have the same creator ?

 

Obviously this doesnt apply to all - Karyssa and Sakura are amazingly cute.

Again, this can all be easily changed with some morphs and a few spins of a few sliders.

This is a really weird argument.

"I don't like buying characters that look the same."

"Well you can make them look different by adding other morphs you already bought."

How does that add actual value to buying two copies of very similar morphs? You can already change the one you have.

 

I think it makes sense depending on what you want view the value of the characters to be. Personally I find the utility of the Daz sculpts to be the *finer details*. I think you'd probably agree that shifting the proportions of Victoria into something more average is way easier than taking a figure with Victoria's general proportions and morphing it into an exact likeness of Victoria. Likewise making the jaw width narrower is pretty simple, much simpler than adjusting a bunch of fine detail in the nose or eyelid shape.

 

It's honestly not so much of a Daz morphs thing as a custom morphs are easier to get more exact detail and whoever does the Daz morphs happens to be pretty good (seriously I'm always strangely impressed with the noses, mainly because I'm really bad at morphing noses).

Oh I agree, I have all the DAZ 8 figures except that fairy one, I just don't think telling someone that if they think a character looks to similar to three or four that they have it's fine because they can morph it is going to convince anyone.

FSMCDesigns

agent unawares said:

FSMCDesigns said:

Cortex said:

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

I find many of this generation Daz original main female models have large jaws and a tall strong look compared to the cuter rounder look of gen 7.

Gen 8 also seem to be a bit older and often get secondary creases on their cheeks when they smile (look at the store pics of teen Josie 8)

Its just this Gens style I guess or maybe they have the same creator ?

 

Obviously this doesnt apply to all - Karyssa and Sakura are amazingly cute.

Again, this can all be easily changed with some morphs and a few spins of a few sliders.

This is a really weird argument.

"I don't like buying characters that look the same."

"Well you can make them look different by adding other morphs you already bought."

How does that add actual value to buying two copies of very similar morphs? You can already change the one you have.

My point is that we keep seeing comments that they all look a certain way and it's not to their liking, then change it. the beauty of the DAZ addon characters is that you get some finer details that the normal DAZ morphs don't have, I get that. But if a user doesn't like penny's lips, or her eye size/shape, or her nose, they are not stuck with that as many comments seem to deplore and it's an easy fix in most cases.

agent unawares

FSMCDesigns said:

agent unawares said:

FSMCDesigns said:

Cortex said:

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

I find many of this generation Daz original main female models have large jaws and a tall strong look compared to the cuter rounder look of gen 7.

Gen 8 also seem to be a bit older and often get secondary creases on their cheeks when they smile (look at the store pics of teen Josie 8)

Its just this Gens style I guess or maybe they have the same creator ?

 

Obviously this doesnt apply to all - Karyssa and Sakura are amazingly cute.

Again, this can all be easily changed with some morphs and a few spins of a few sliders.

This is a really weird argument.

"I don't like buying characters that look the same."

"Well you can make them look different by adding other morphs you already bought."

How does that add actual value to buying two copies of very similar morphs? You can already change the one you have.

My point is that we keep seeing comments that they all look a certain way and it's not to their liking, then change it. the beauty of the DAZ addon characters is that you get some finer details that the normal DAZ morphs don't have, I get that. But if a user doesn't like penny's lips, or her eye size/shape, or her nose, they are not stuck with that as many comments seem to deplore and it's an easy fix in most cases.

Fair.

j cade

agent unawares said:

j cade said:

agent unawares said:

FSMCDesigns said:

Cortex said:

gremlin-2297907 said:

All this generations models tend to look the same am i right?

I find many of this generation Daz original main female models have large jaws and a tall strong look compared to the cuter rounder look of gen 7.

Gen 8 also seem to be a bit older and often get secondary creases on their cheeks when they smile (look at the store pics of teen Josie 8)

Its just this Gens style I guess or maybe they have the same creator ?

 

Obviously this doesnt apply to all - Karyssa and Sakura are amazingly cute.

Again, this can all be easily changed with some morphs and a few spins of a few sliders.

This is a really weird argument.

"I don't like buying characters that look the same."

"Well you can make them look different by adding other morphs you already bought."

How does that add actual value to buying two copies of very similar morphs? You can already change the one you have.

 

I think it makes sense depending on what you want view the value of the characters to be. Personally I find the utility of the Daz sculpts to be the *finer details*. I think you'd probably agree that shifting the proportions of Victoria into something more average is way easier than taking a figure with Victoria's general proportions and morphing it into an exact likeness of Victoria. Likewise making the jaw width narrower is pretty simple, much simpler than adjusting a bunch of fine detail in the nose or eyelid shape.

 

It's honestly not so much of a Daz morphs thing as a custom morphs are easier to get more exact detail and whoever does the Daz morphs happens to be pretty good (seriously I'm always strangely impressed with the noses, mainly because I'm really bad at morphing noses).

Oh I agree, I have all the DAZ 8 figures except that fairy one, I just don't think telling someone that if they think a character looks to similar to three or four that they have it's fine because they can morph it is going to convince anyone.

I think I agree, if the complaint is to same'y/looks dial spun than saying so dialspin is a bit silly. I think the "so dial spin" kneejeck comes from seeing a lot of complaints like "the jaws to big" (often phrased pretty rudely, although not in this thread thankfully) and after a while I just want to scream "THERES LITERALLY A DIAL CALLED JAW SIZE"

agent unawares

Okay, for all you who can recognize Victoria, Olympia, Stephanie, and Penny at a glance, I'm curious. Who's who? Can you tell without looking back at promo shots or digging into your own runtime? (I can't do this even a little so I'll be highly impressed.)

Eyebrows, eyelashes, hair and eyes are all addons and always the same. Makeup was chosen by a random number roll. Camera focal length is always the same. Morph is always either V8, O8, S8, or P8 at 100%.

Toyen

Let me try! :D

Penny
Stephanie
Olympia
Victoria

Stinger

Maybe it's me but the skin could use a little more detail.  But overall, I think she's rather alluring... I call her my 'Pretty Penny'. ;)

 

BlueIrene

I only own Victoria out of all these and even I'm not sure which one is her - number 4, I think. I'd say that three was very definitely Stephanie and Penny is possibly number 1, which makes number two Olympia.

j cade

Oooh the angles and makeups (and stupid daz sss settings) make it more of a challenge but think Victoria, Stephanie, Penny, Olympia?

 

edit 1 and 3 are the hardest imo I think I'm switching to penny, steph, vicky, olympia

nonesuch00

agent unawares said:

Okay, for all you who can recognize Victoria, Olympia, Stephanie, and Penny at a glance, I'm curious. Who's who? Can you tell without looking back at promo shots or digging into your own runtime? (I can't do this even a little so I'll be highly impressed.)

Eyebrows, eyelashes, hair and eyes are all addons and always the same. Makeup was chosen by a random number roll. Camera focal length is always the same. Morph is always either V8, O8, S8, or P8 at 100%.

I'm not good at this at all either and don't even own but one of them so far (I tend to favor G8F unmorphed as I like her average good looks):

1) Stephanie

2) Olympia

3) Penny

4) Victoria

I didn't look at other's statements of who's who so I wasn't influenced by that. The one I feel surest about is Penny is at number 3. I felt she was clearly meant to be more old style Hollywood pinup and it shows.

Sunnydays

agent unawares said:

Okay, for all you who can recognize Victoria, Olympia, Stephanie, and Penny at a glance, I'm curious. Who's who? Can you tell without looking back at promo shots or digging into your own runtime? (I can't do this even a little so I'll be highly impressed.)

Eyebrows, eyelashes, hair and eyes are all addons and always the same. Makeup was chosen by a random number roll. Camera focal length is always the same. Morph is always either V8, O8, S8, or P8 at 100%.

Same character with different make-ups/angles

Wonderland

This is fun

I'm going to guess:

1 Victoria

2 Stephanie

3. Olympia

4. Penny

 

agent unawares

Okay big reveal time.

Sunnydays said:

Same character with different make-ups/angles

Ah, but who?

They are indeed all Victoria 8. Even the skin, no changes. All that I did was make some expressions, poses, and camera angles that I thought might "feel" characteristic of different types of people, and randomly pulled one makeup from each character set with random.org. This is what people are trying to say when they are saying that these characters are not "distinctive" and that they're "too similar." It's not that you can't tell they're supposed to be different people when you look at them together, because you can, and there are tells that give away who is who when you directly compare. But there are such strong common features to all of them that it's really difficult to be sure if someone in a render is Victoria or Stephanie or...

(also thank god it's not just me and I'm not secretly faceblind)

I'm not complaining about the "endless parade of white girls" because I still like all these characters, and I still have all of them, but I understand the reason for hoping that before we get another girl one could throw into this lineup and people would be sure she was five different morphs, maybe we get a Bethany, or a Mei Lin, or a (M)Ollie, or a ghost white Irish girl with freckles all over her body, or a Native American girl with deeply hooded eyes and strong cheekbones on a soft round face. Because I can and I will use the V8s and the O8s and the S8s and the P8s, but I have a really hard time arguing to anyone else that "this one is a new thing."

j cade

agent unawares said:

Okay big reveal time.

Sunnydays said:

Same character with different make-ups/angles

Ah, but who?

They are indeed all Victoria 8. Even the skin, no changes. All that I did was make some expressions, poses, and camera angles that I thought might "feel" characteristic of different types of people, and randomly pulled one makeup from each character set with random.org. This is what people are trying to say when they are saying that these characters are not "distinctive" and that they're "too similar." It's not that you can't tell they're supposed to be different people when you look at them together, because you can, and there are tells that give away who is who when you directly compare. But there are such strong common features to all of them that it's really difficult to be sure if someone in a render is Victoria or Stephanie or...

(also thank god it's not just me and I'm not secretly faceblind)

I'm not complaining about the "endless parade of white girls" because I still like all these characters, and I still have all of them, but I understand the reason for hoping that before we get another girl one could throw into this lineup and people would be sure she was five different morphs, maybe we get a Bethany, or a Mei Lin, or a (M)Ollie, or a ghost white Irish girl with freckles all over her body, or a Native American girl with deeply hooded eyes and strong cheekbones on a soft round face. Because I can and I will use the V8s and the O8s and the S8s and the P8s, but I have a really hard time arguing to anyone else that "this one is a new thing."

Actually this may be more of a demonstration of psychology... that if you say "these are different people" people will believe you and justify it. For instance, on first glance I was completely confident 1 was victoria, but at second look I absolutely knew that 3 was because of a very specific  feature (the ears I recognize figure ears is that weird?) since I knew 3 absolutely had to be Victoria I knew the others logically couldn't be.