outrider42 said:

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

I have way, way too many morphs in my library and I'm mostly interested in buying 8.1 characters for skins and maps that match the new UVs. I'm also interested in seeing how more experienced folks manage the shader settings for different types of characters. 

On a broader level, introducing the new layout and features meant vendors having to update their products and provide extended support on short notice. Older expressions and some cosmetic products and tools require workarounds to use on 8.1. From the atmosphere at the time of release, it felt like a lot of people were thinking, "Okay, this is a pain for now, but we might see some really cool new stuff and once support ramps up it'll probably be worth it." That hasn't happened yet, and while in the long run it probably will I think right now there's just legitimate interest in seeing more benefits to it. 

That said, I know there were other people who were really nervous about the whole store potentially shifting over to 8.1 wholesale and leaving those who didn't want to adopt it behind, so there are also benefits to a longer introductory period and options for hybrid characters. The language could just be clearer.

alienarea said:

Not sure if this has been discussed here before, or should be in a new thread.

It seems that Victoria 8.1 is quite disjunct from Genesis 8.1 Female.

Genesis 8 Female and Genesis 8.1 Female seem to be identical in shape. 

In Genesis 3 and 8, when you loaded Victoria (7 for 3 and 8 for 8) and dialed out the Victoria morphs, you had the base genesis female.

With Victoria 8.1, this is not the case. 

As a result, I can apply a shape preset saved from G8 to G8.1 and it looks like my G8 character, nut when I apply it to V8.1 with   Victoria dialed-out, I get a freak.

V8.1 is just a character morph for G8.1F, in that respect nothing has changed.

After dialing out V8.1, what does your "Currently used" list look like (choose 'Show hidden properties' first)? 

Not sure if this has been discussed here before, or should be in a new thread.

It seems that Victoria 8.1 is quite disjunct from Genesis 8.1 Female.

Genesis 8 Female and Genesis 8.1 Female seem to be identical in shape. 

In Genesis 3 and 8, when you loaded Victoria (7 for 3 and 8 for 8) and dialed out the Victoria morphs, you had the base genesis female.

With Victoria 8.1, this is not the case. 

As a result, I can apply a shape preset saved from G8 to G8.1 and it looks like my G8 character, nut when I apply it to V8.1 with   Victoria dialed-out, I get a freak.

Taoz said:

Looks like this one:

https://www.daz3d.com/sammy-hair-for-genesis-2-female-s-and-victoria-4

Yes it does Taoz thank you very much :)

outrider42 said:

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

I still have to question the choice to move a seam from below the chin/behind the ear to across the collarbone. Just...yeah...I'll continue on preferring the base Genesis 8 UV thankyouverymuch. 

And in regards to the new shader...the benefits above the Uber Shader are again, quite debatable. There are the new tiled normals...which meh...if a character has well-made normals and bump and specular to begin with, the microdetails aren't really needed anyways? And don't get me started on the new shader taking away features from the Uber Shader that a lot of people used and relied on for really nice skin. If I were to purchase a character that uses the new shader, I'd just convert them over to Uber anyways, lol.

It's really all personal preference. I can see how it would be good if a vendor stated what UV map and what shader the character uses, but I don't think it should stop anybody from purchase. As you said, any G8 character can be shifted to 8.1 and get all the benefits of the 8.1 facial rig. That's really the only selling factor of 8.1...the facial rigging. 

outrider42 said:

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

You're missing the point entirely.  Daz markets to hobbyists and is all about ease of use: click and it works as advertised.  Daz isn't Blender, and certainly doesn't advertise its products as kits, but as ready-to-use assets.  This product was not advertised as a banana, but a Genesis 8.1 character, and that brings with it certain expectations.  If Daz and/or the PA can't meet those expectations, they should expect returns.

Daz hasn't even put a video about 8.1 on their YouTube channel, while there are four (4) on Octane.  This is not how you launch an update to your base figure.

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

*****  Tutorials T  through W ******

Tutorial: Tears by SereneNight   

Tutorial: Teeth, Getting Realistic Shapes      Getting realistic teeth shapes was here and slight tweaks here.

Tutorial: Texturing      Texturing With DestinysGarden  is a good thread- let a pro show you how!

Tutorial: UltraScatter Advanced Instancing       UltraScatter Advanced Instancing:   RGcincy's handy notes, how-to.

Tutorial: UltraScenery Experiments (barbult)

Victoria 4 for Genesis 2 Female:  How to use the product.

Tutorial: Weight Mapping:  How To Smooth All Face Groups At Once  (By SickleYield)

Tutorial: Weight Mapping: Creating One  by Chris-2599934

Tutorial: Windows, Making Them From Planes And Cubes Realistically       Making Windows using planes and cubes, with glass panes and images!

 ********** TUTORIALS**********

Tutorial:  Bus, Noggins- Converting from Bryce to Daz Studio   (RGcincy)   Here

Tutorial:  Breast Gone-  In Hexagon  (Smoothing Zev0s Grow Up product even more)  

Tutorial: Clothing, Making in Blender SickleYield's tutorial on Deviant Art.

Tutorial:  Content Package Assist   

Tutorial: Converting G3 and G8 Clothing by SickleYield on Deviant Art  

Tutorial: Create Categories     Using Gen2F, I showed how to Create Categories and Export to save your custom categories. (Here's WHY you may want to do that with your characters.) 

Tutorial: Custom Actions In Toolbar     How to Create Custom Actions In Toolbar

Tutorial: Customizing Morphs Using Morph Loader Pro  

Tutorial: D Former     D Former Tutorial           D Former tutorial and links 

Tutorial: Depth of Field         Flipmode provides a good depth of field tutorial for you.

Tutorial: Expressions:  How To Make Them As A Dial     

Tutorial:  Face Control  (Knittingmommy)  Use on cartoon characters    

Tutorial: Fisty's Shaders & Getting Rid of Gooey Lips     This one shows you Fisty's shaders. Get rid of the overly gooey lips. 

Tutorial: Fur Brushes Download and Video (Kathryn Loch)

Tutorial: Garibaldi Hair     Doing a cat with Garibaldi Hair- Tutorial

Tutorial:  GenX links on "how to use." 

Tutorial: Generation 4 Materials on Genesis 2     This one put Generation 4 materials on Genesis 2 using Victoria 4 for Genesis 2 Female.

Tutorial: Geometry Shells     How to do Geometry Shells  (video tutorial the3dwizard) and doing makeup for different characters

Tutorial: Hair Shaders (Slosh, his product)   explaining how to use them.

Tutorial: Hay Bales   Take a freebie and make the hay straws thicker. Here's what you get.

Tutorial: Iclone   Iclone videos

Tutorial: Images- How To Put Them In Forum Posts     Here's  Putting Images in Posts

Tutorial:  Instances: Using Ultrascatter 

Looks like this one:

https://www.daz3d.com/sammy-hair-for-genesis-2-female-s-and-victoria-4

This is post 14 and we're allowed 30 per thread, so we've got a few more to go. I just got online and will start on Thread 14 and get it set up. Wow, thread 14, I started with Thread 1  March, 2013. Eight years ago I started documenting my trials and learning experience, with Victoria and Michael 4, and Genesis. (That was weird, having one figure for male and female.) And of course, 3DL. There are many of you with much, much more experience and longevity with Daz (Zygote!) and I really love your contributions to the thread. Thanks for being along for the ride, we've got years more to come! 

I'll go start on setting up the other thread, there's 16 more posts on this thread, so feel free. Just keep the last one for me please, for a link to the next thread. :)  I'm doing a second render of the challenge combination, would love to start the next thread featuring your renders. Perhaps showcase MM items, I'm picking up some nice stuff in that PC+ for a day.

Looking for the short blonde hair in the main promo image please MRL Brienne for Victoria 8 | 3D Models and 3D Software by Daz 3D

This is probably a bit niche, but I'd love to see some historical wheelchairs, like the ones in this Science Museum article about early self propelled wheelchairs, and mechanical chain driven chairs (I'd love to see the Queen Victoria pony powered wheelchair too, but let's face it, there's niche and there's 'only one person will buy this.')

The article is below. I think it could be awesome fun to see some historical/steampunk wheelchair content. 

The Science Museum's History of the Wheelchair Article

fred9803 said:

This thread here discusses the expressions issue. See if you are following the right procedure.

Thanks! I think I might have figured it out with the help of that thread.

This thread here discusses the expressions issue. See if you are following the right procedure.

This one was listed in the description of the product, very convenient.

https://www.daz3d.com/car-mark \ Phantom (rolls-royce | 1933)

and this other was aswell, though this one is themed instead of a replica

https://www.daz3d.com/car-victoria \ Boattail Speedster (auburn | 1935) 

MetaHuman won't make DAZ obsolete, because it will be cloud based and this means no control and no modifying of those barbie/ken characters and they will all be some kind of "lookalikes", a problem all "ingame character creation systems" do have. They seem to have just one skin texture and one normal map (for aging effect), where you can set the strength etc.

As for the cloud: If they decide to take the application down, it will be instantly forgotten as if it never existed.

Another point is the horrendously bad performance (like with every object/mesh using materials with an extensive blueprint setup) which makes it impossible to use it in open world environments. With UE5 you will still have to reduce polycounts for skeletal meshes (and foliage). Only static meshes

won't need a LOD system anymore. That's the reason why they have shown  only some dead dessert environment in their promo, but no huge forests.

The hair technology you see in the examples is something UE4 specific and probably can be used with any character, no matter if DAZ, MakeHuman etc.

As for those nice skins: This is nothing special, just some good PBR textures (with some additional maps, not just diffuse,specular and normal) with an advanced shading/blending algorithm. You only need some good textures and can freely copy the blueprint node setup and voila you have a similar skin quality.

I've heard somewhere that DAZ uses this PBR technology to a more advanced degree as well with the new Victoria 8.1?

And I'm sure that MetaHuman won't have the full range of morphs, clothing options, hairstyles, bone driven morph targets like DAZ has and it probably won't have even full human bodies. Hell, the standard UE4 version doesn't even have Dual Quaternion skinning, so the characters either will deform badly or they will always have some clothing on in order to hide the bad deformations.

To conclude I can say it will be very limited and not usable outside of UE, so any modding on a broader scale will be impossible, maybe with the exception of some minor adjustments.

Vicki's Dance Club Collection 2001-12-09 8:31:31 AM
BUT, I already had V1 at that time, so it must have been earlier than that. I already had M1 as well. 
also on same order : Victoria's Sweater & Skirt Mappak and Skirt & Sweater Set for Victoria. all by Jim Burton

Ragazzine said:

Robert Freise said:

Ragazzine said:

Morph Loader and D-Form Plugin from 2006-04-22. They are the oldest products in the loit. Before that were three orders, one for Studio 2.3.3 and another for Aiko 3.0 Base and Michael 3.0 base and the third for Victoria 3.0 base. There are 1321 orders on the list. I think I would rather not have known that.

Coud be worse I have  4145 

Yes, that would be worse. Much worse. Very much worse.  Probably almost the worsest. 

Actually it's worse as there are older orders that aren't listed 

Ragazzine said:

Robert Freise said:

Ragazzine said:

Morph Loader and D-Form Plugin from 2006-04-22. They are the oldest products in the loit. Before that were three orders, one for Studio 2.3.3 and another for Aiko 3.0 Base and Michael 3.0 base and the third for Victoria 3.0 base. There are 1321 orders on the list. I think I would rather not have known that.

Coud be worse I have  4145 

Yes, that would be worse. Much worse. Very much worse.  Probably almost the worsest. 

Paging @cybersox.