The big announcement on September 21, 2022 - place your bets!

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Comments

  • GatorGator Posts: 1,235

    I went ahead and bought the bundle.  I skipped Genesis 8 and 8.1, I have a few characters here and there but don't use them.

    I like the fact that they come with HD morphs - it's about time!  Victoria 4 was released 16 years ago with slightly more vertices than Genesis 8 Female!  That was before Nvidia 8 series cards!!!  The difference in compute power from the top of the line 8 series card of 2006 to a basic 3060 is astonishing.  On the cost, I'd argue it (HD) really shouldn't be an upcharge at this point, it should be a given.

    You can always turn details off, however you can't add more.

  • 3DRT said:

    Curious to know what everyone thinks of Genesis 9 vs Metahuman in terms of realism. Personally I prefer the skin and hair of Metahuman but the geometry of G9 looks better (at a cursory glance at least). I really hope we get some improvements to the base skin shader in DAZ. 8K textures is nice but all the pores in the world won't fix plastic-looking skin. 

    I personally prefer daz in terms of shader work etc. You can't really compare a real time render engine with a off line render engine like Iray. Iray is slower and can calculate better results. The thing with some of daz model is that they try to make the faces too perfect sometimes and steer away from symmetry which causes a drop in believeability and realism but lately their stuff is looking better and better

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,826

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Ah, I see. As she is apparently a Highland lass I certainly hope she has something a bit warmer to wear.

    That's an excellent point!  I wonder if Daz will follow through on that Highland theme for the V9 bundle.

  • PaintboxPaintbox Posts: 1,626
    edited September 22

    Flameburst said:

    3DRT said:

    Curious to know what everyone thinks of Genesis 9 vs Metahuman in terms of realism. Personally I prefer the skin and hair of Metahuman but the geometry of G9 looks better (at a cursory glance at least). I really hope we get some improvements to the base skin shader in DAZ. 8K textures is nice but all the pores in the world won't fix plastic-looking skin. 

    I personally prefer daz in terms of shader work etc. You can't really compare a real time render engine with a off line render engine like Iray. Iray is slower and can calculate better results. The thing with some of daz model is that they try to make the faces too perfect sometimes and steer away from symmetry which causes a drop in believeability and realism but lately their stuff is looking better and better

    As someone who has spent a lot of time in the realism thread, Victoria 9 still falls in the either the waxy/plastic look typical of Daz Renders. The SSS is not as advanced as other human solutions out there (check out the realism thread for more references and in-depth talk)

    So while the geometry and skin itself is really good what Jay showed, the render still lags behind on the hidden elephant in the room which is uncanny skin rendering where something is "off"

    Post edited by Paintbox on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,589

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Havos said:

    Pendraia said:

    PrefoX said:

    3DRT said:

    The new figure looks good, but I'm disappointed by the lack of backwards compatiblity (legacy UV's, morph and pose converters etc) Until there's a tool that allows me to port over my large library of G8 characters, I don't think I'll be investing much into G9.

    you can only make bigger improvements without backwards compatibility. its pretty much impossible to autoconvert UV maps, morphs are going to be hard because its a complete different mesh and morphs are targerted to specific vertices. DAZ has put a ton of work into gen9, it is a huge leap and that will pay out in the end.

    Alternate maps are possible with genesis. The original genesis had alternate maps for Millenium 3 and 4 figures. It can be done but most likely as a pa product. Daz released the original genesis with millenium 4 mapping included but they haven't done it since.

    The original Genesis had UVs for the Millenium 4 figures, but not the Millenium 3 figures. This was because the base Genesis UV was fairly close to the M4/V4 ones. M3/V3 UVs were completely different.

    Depending on how close the arm and leg loops of G9 are to those of G8 then in theory G9 could be given a UV set allowing it to use Genesis 3/8 skins. However if those loops are a long way off, that is not going to look good. In that case something like Cayman's legacy UV products that use geografts will be needed.

    Victoria 4, Genesis, and Genesis 2 had the same surface grouping. Genesis 3 and 8 also shared a different surface grouping. Genesis 9 has a ne grouping. When the grouping chnages it is not possible to simply remap the model to take older textures - they either need to be baked to new maps or something like the GeoGrafts used in recent tools need to be added to accomodate the overlaps..

    Thanks for the info Richard...

  • Paintbox said:

    Flameburst said:

    3DRT said:

    Curious to know what everyone thinks of Genesis 9 vs Metahuman in terms of realism. Personally I prefer the skin and hair of Metahuman but the geometry of G9 looks better (at a cursory glance at least). I really hope we get some improvements to the base skin shader in DAZ. 8K textures is nice but all the pores in the world won't fix plastic-looking skin. 

    I personally prefer daz in terms of shader work etc. You can't really compare a real time render engine with a off line render engine like Iray. Iray is slower and can calculate better results. The thing with some of daz model is that they try to make the faces too perfect sometimes and steer away from symmetry which causes a drop in believeability and realism but lately their stuff is looking better and better

    As someone who has spent a lot of time in the realism thread, Victoria 9 still falls in the either the waxy/plastic look typical of Daz Renders. The SSS is not as advanced as other human solutions out there (check out the realism thread for more references and in-depth talk)

    So while the geometry and skin itself is really good what Jay showed, the render still lags behind on the hidden elephant in the room which is uncanny skin rendering where something is "off"

    Yes true.

    If you zoom into V9's skin in the promo renders, the sss looks off because it looks like the bump maps are too strong  or the SSS is not strong enough. It does look scratchy and plasticy. What I meant was that Iray would be a better render engine than Unreal 5 because it's not realtime. So being an offline render engine it gets better results, anti aliasing and smoothing whereas the SSS does need more work. Be nice to get results closer to Arnold render engine where its uses a "random walk" method to calculate realistic distribiution of light through the skin

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,589

    Havos said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    kyoto kid said:

    Mada said:

    fred9803 said:

    Kainjy said:

    G8 materials are compatibles ?
    Poses, Clothing/Hair and morphs no.. but materials ? 

    No, previous textures won't work. 

     G8 clothing will fit G9 with autofit - same as always. High heel shoes won't, same as before. I keep on seeing posts that it won't work. Yes it will lol

    ...so clothing content for older figures prior to G8 (which is the majority of my clothing content as I don't use dForce) won't work?

    Nothing was said about clones for older figures, but if there are none it will still be possible to convert to Genesis 8 then 8 to 9.

    When Jay autofitted a G8F item onto G9 I noticed the other options in the Auto fit drop-down list of clones. I spotted Genesis, G2F, G2M, G3F, G3M, G8F and G8M, so whilst we can not be certain that G9 will ship will all these clones on day 1, I rather suspect that it will.

    Or at least available? That's good to know...

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    Unless your issue is Duplicate Formulas, which are a clash between products and won't be fixed unless all content makers get very thorough about using unique names, then naming converntions have no real bearing on load times.

    Duplicate Formulas are a big part of what I am referring to.

    And this manner of thinking is exactly what I am trying to bring attention to.

    Why is it the creator's responsibility to double check the naming? Yes, they should make sure their own morphs don't conflict, but they can't possibly check against all other morphs in the DAZ store.

    Keeping a database of morphs and what packages they belong to isn't hard. The data is available; it's in all of the read me indexs. Then it would be a simple comparison as part of the release process.Then merge the new entries into the database.

    Don't want to go the database route? Fine. Why not assign each creator a prefix and double check that the prefix is used in the morph name? Then there would only be a conflict with the creator's own work.

    Admittedly it seems like things have gotten better, but I don't know if that is because of an effort to avoid these conflicts or just the steps I have personally taken to avoid the issues.

    I can accept that load times can't be fixed until a new version of DS comes along, but if no one is worrying about that / mentioning it, then it might well be overlooked.

    Load times are an inconvenience. The Duplicate Formulas break things unless you know what you are doing to fix it.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,738
    edited September 22

    Just to correct a misunderstanding that is going around:

    The Genesis 9 texture maps are NOT 8K they are 4K except for the nail maps which are 1K.  The skin DETAIL maps are up to 8K.  Arms, legs, body and head detail maps are each 8K.  The male and female genital maps are 4K and the nail details are only 1K.  The detail maps are optional and do not load by default.

     

     

    This is for Genesis 9 base.  I dont know if Victoria 9 will have 8K skin maps or not

    Post edited by Mattymanx on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,362

    Mattymanx said:

    Just to correct a misunderstanding that is going around:

    The Genesis 9 texture maps are NOT 8K they are 4K except for the nail maps which are 1K.  The skin DETAIL maps are up to 8K.  Arms, legs, body and head detail maps are each 8K.  The male and female genital maps are 4K and the nail details are only 1K.  The detail maps are optional and do not load by default.

    What is the difference between a texture map and a detail map?

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,738
    edited September 22

    Leonides02 said:

    Mattymanx said:

    Just to correct a misunderstanding that is going around:

    The Genesis 9 texture maps are NOT 8K they are 4K except for the nail maps which are 1K.  The skin DETAIL maps are up to 8K.  Arms, legs, body and head detail maps are each 8K.  The male and female genital maps are 4K and the nail details are only 1K.  The detail maps are optional and do not load by default.

    What is the difference between a texture map and a detail map?

     

    Texture maps being your regular set of diffuse, spec and normal maps.  The detail maps are normal maps that are loaded in the PBR skin shader under the detail section, normal map channel.

    Post edited by Mattymanx on
  • Detail would be like bump, normal, and spec maps that give the detail to the render. If I am not mistaken.

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 5,895

    Paintbox said:

    As someone who has spent a lot of time in the realism thread, Victoria 9 still falls in the either the waxy/plastic look typical of Daz Renders. The SSS is not as advanced as other human solutions out there

    We have been told, that Iray was designed for automotive industry, maybe that's why it's not quite there for human skin. 

  • XelloszXellosz Posts: 657

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Xellosz said:

    Will Hexagon be able to handle it???

    G8 works in Hexagon, with the double amount of polygon I think G9 might crash it.

    I don't know the numbers, but it would still be lighter than Victoria 4/Michael 4.

    Thx for the info. We will see it in a month.

    The 8GB RAM part mentioned on youtube still makes my hobby 1050Ti twitching for help.

    But all things will clear up soon.  

  • duckbombduckbomb Posts: 564

    I'm very excited.  I guess I've been kind of all-in for a while now, but it's good to see things developing.

    I know everybody is worried about the new system requirements, but even for things like DForce I think having a higher base density will help quite a bit.  I know we aren't getting built-in soft body physics or anything crazy like that, but many of the PA tools that have been released seem to get close to that, and are really only held back by the limited base geo.  Personally, I'm a bit excited to see what the future holds!

  • Gator said:

    I went ahead and bought the bundle.  I skipped Genesis 8 and 8.1, I have a few characters here and there but don't use them.

    I like the fact that they come with HD morphs - it's about time!  Victoria 4 was released 16 years ago with slightly more vertices than Genesis 8 Female!  That was before Nvidia 8 series cards!!!  The difference in compute power from the top of the line 8 series card of 2006 to a basic 3060 is astonishing.  On the cost, I'd argue it (HD) really shouldn't be an upcharge at this point, it should be a given.

    You can always turn details off, however you can't add more.

    Victoria 4 had about four times as many polygons as Genseis 8's base cage mesh - one level of SubD, the default for the Viewport, brings Genesis 8 up to nearly the same resolution, the default render level mutliplies that by sixteen.

  • Jason Galterio said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Unless your issue is Duplicate Formulas, which are a clash between products and won't be fixed unless all content makers get very thorough about using unique names, then naming converntions have no real bearing on load times.

    Duplicate Formulas are a big part of what I am referring to.

    And this manner of thinking is exactly what I am trying to bring attention to.

    Why is it the creator's responsibility to double check the naming? Yes, they should make sure their own morphs don't conflict, but they can't possibly check against all other morphs in the DAZ store.

    Keeping a database of morphs and what packages they belong to isn't hard. The data is available; it's in all of the read me indexs. Then it would be a simple comparison as part of the release process.Then merge the new entries into the database.

    Don't want to go the database route? Fine. Why not assign each creator a prefix and double check that the prefix is used in the morph name? Then there would only be a conflict with the creator's own work.

    Admittedly it seems like things have gotten better, but I don't know if that is because of an effort to avoid these conflicts or just the steps I have personally taken to avoid the issues.

    I can accept that load times can't be fixed until a new version of DS comes along, but if no one is worrying about that / mentioning it, then it might well be overlooked.

    Load times are an inconvenience. The Duplicate Formulas break things unless you know what you are doing to fix it.

    Duplicate formulas should not simply be allowed to sit anyway - ideally both parties will update. But Daz cannot keep an index of all morphs, covnersions (once we have the tools), products from other stores, or freebies. I would agree that they should ask PAs to make sure they don't use generic names, but I am not sure they don't.

  • hjakehjake Posts: 610

    Well to look on the bright side of life. Atleast they didn't announce Genesis 10 (skipping 9) and that it would be the last Genesis (mumbles for 6 years).

    After Gen 9 and DS 5 have been out for a year, then would be a good time to start considering the upgrade. Assuming the morph, clothing, skin, prop, and pose converters have all been published and adapted to DS 5.

    Hey consider this ... as a previous member mentioned Genesis 9 (unfied gender) is reminiscent of the Star Trek Deep Space 9 character Odo. So DS 9,  Gen 9, maybe the Micheal 9 character should include an Odo morph? :-)

     

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 5,895

    hjake said:

    Well to look on the bright side of life. Atleast they didn't announce Genesis 10 (skipping 9) and that it would be the last Genesis (mumbles for 6 years).

    After Gen 9 and DS 5 have been out for a year, then would be a good time to start considering the upgrade. Assuming the morph, clothing, skin, prop, and pose converters have all been published and adapted to DS 5.

    Hey consider this ... as a previous member mentioned Genesis 9 (unfied gender) is reminiscent of the Star Trek Deep Space 9 character Odo. So DS 9,  Gen 9, maybe the Micheal 9 character should include an Odo morph? :-)

    In addition to Vicky X being sentient, she would need volumetric mesh that moves and responds to handling like a real human body - NVIATWAS with an attitude wink

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    Jason Galterio said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Unless your issue is Duplicate Formulas, which are a clash between products and won't be fixed unless all content makers get very thorough about using unique names, then naming converntions have no real bearing on load times.

    Duplicate Formulas are a big part of what I am referring to.

    And this manner of thinking is exactly what I am trying to bring attention to.

    Why is it the creator's responsibility to double check the naming? Yes, they should make sure their own morphs don't conflict, but they can't possibly check against all other morphs in the DAZ store.

    Keeping a database of morphs and what packages they belong to isn't hard. The data is available; it's in all of the read me indexs. Then it would be a simple comparison as part of the release process.Then merge the new entries into the database.

    Don't want to go the database route? Fine. Why not assign each creator a prefix and double check that the prefix is used in the morph name? Then there would only be a conflict with the creator's own work.

    Admittedly it seems like things have gotten better, but I don't know if that is because of an effort to avoid these conflicts or just the steps I have personally taken to avoid the issues.

    I can accept that load times can't be fixed until a new version of DS comes along, but if no one is worrying about that / mentioning it, then it might well be overlooked.

    Load times are an inconvenience. The Duplicate Formulas break things unless you know what you are doing to fix it.

    Duplicate formulas should not simply be allowed to sit anyway - ideally both parties will update. But Daz cannot keep an index of all morphs, covnersions (once we have the tools), products from other stores, or freebies. I would agree that they should ask PAs to make sure they don't use generic names, but I am not sure they don't.

    That's reasonable and I wouldn't expect DAZ to keep a record of anything other than what they sell.

    What I do to break the software on my own is my own problem.

    I'm expecting other issues. There's always new issues. I don't want to revisit the old issues too.

    The DF errors weren't taken seriously until fairly recently. I would open tickets when I found them and never get resolution until the past year.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 1,943
    edited September 22

     

    Where is the content chat, if I care to read it? Does that contain the video that was shown on YouTube?

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Post edited by inquire on
  • inquire said:

     

    Where is the content chat, if I care to read it? Does that contain the video that was shown on YouTube?

    I'm not sure what you mean - there was a chat running alongside the stream, but that was removed soon after the stream ended.

  • QuasarQuasar Posts: 538

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    denser mesh is a good thing for those sculpting morphs who are not PAs

    I also like the unimesh like Genesis 1

    it might be the only reason I will eventually buy into it

    (and skip 8.1 entirely)

    but it's a while off and I am not the target customer (one with money)

    hell they still haven't convinced me to join DAZ+ again this entire year cheeky

    Not that this would make you join DAZ+ again, but people who have a membership can buy V9 or the bundle for 51% off right now. Even at $78.39, the bundle is still too pricey for me at the moment, but it's a lot better than list price.

    This is my question? Since the items for the bundle aren't listed, am I correct in assuming that we need to buy the bundle to get anatomical elements for G9?

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,589

    Mattymanx said:

    Leonides02 said:

    Mattymanx said:

    Just to correct a misunderstanding that is going around:

    The Genesis 9 texture maps are NOT 8K they are 4K except for the nail maps which are 1K.  The skin DETAIL maps are up to 8K.  Arms, legs, body and head detail maps are each 8K.  The male and female genital maps are 4K and the nail details are only 1K.  The detail maps are optional and do not load by default.

    What is the difference between a texture map and a detail map?

     

    Texture maps being your regular set of diffuse, spec and normal maps.  The detail maps are normal maps that are loaded in the PBR skin shader under the detail section, normal map channel.

    Thanks for pointing this out Matty!

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,589

     

    Don't want to go the database route? Fine. Why not assign each creator a prefix and double check that the prefix is used in the morph name? Then there would only be a conflict with the creator's own work.

    One potential issue with this is that when you create a custom morph for a character it needs to have the same name as the character morph for it to autofollow when you dial the character in.

    That said I frequently use my initials as a prefix for other morphs but I mainly do freebies.

  • Pendraia said:

     

    Don't want to go the database route? Fine. Why not assign each creator a prefix and double check that the prefix is used in the morph name? Then there would only be a conflict with the creator's own work.

    One potential issue with this is that when you create a custom morph for a character it needs to have the same name as the character morph for it to autofollow when you dial the character in.

    That said I frequently use my initials as a prefix for other morphs but I mainly do freebies.

    The worst issues I have had are packages that have a different morphs named using real names.A package might have six morphs; Angelica, Bethany, Cathy, Denise, Erin, and Francine let's say.

    Then this package will conflict with a full character set using one of those names.

    Tracking down the "multi" package can be a pain because you can't search for the top level package name.

    Freebies, other store products, etc, I install to their own Runtime. So those are easy to remove/revise if there is a problem.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 10,020

    Quasar said:

    This is my question? Since the items for the bundle aren't listed, am I correct in assuming that we need to buy the bundle to get anatomical elements for G9?

    That’s how they’ve done it for all previous Genesis figures, so probably.
  • inquireinquire Posts: 1,943

    I am disappointed, though I should state I have not yet seen the video nor the content chat, wherever those are. I was hoping for DS 5 and for Filament or Metal for Macintosh users. The higher mesh content may make G9 slower to render. So, if that's the case, I'll definitely wait.

    I have lots of figures, inclusing M3,  (which was a gigantic disappointment); D3, (a pretty good fix for M3); M4; Apollo Maximus, (a fine figure, though it was never fully developed, and the creator abandoned this non-DAZ figure); G1, (or just Genesis, and when that came along I thought all the improvements would be added into Genesis, and I really bought into that unimesh figure, spending way too much money);  G2, (a massive disappointment, when I realized Genesis was just a first step for neverending new figures, and it was time to start all over again); G3, and G8.

    I'll watch and wait and view others' experiences, especially what Macintosh users say and experience, before I venture forth into G9.

    Eventually, I'll get a new computer, but it will be a Macintosh. So if there's not some faster rendering in DS 5, then I'm not going to jump into the mix the way I have before.

    Can anyone provide links to the YouTube video or the content chat?

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 6,854
    edited September 22

    Mattymanx said:

    Just to correct a misunderstanding that is going around:

    The Genesis 9 texture maps are NOT 8K they are 4K except for the nail maps which are 1K.  The skin DETAIL maps are up to 8K.  Arms, legs, body and head detail maps are each 8K.  The male and female genital maps are 4K and the nail details are only 1K.  The detail maps are optional and do not load by default.

     

     

    This is for Genesis 9 base.  I dont know if Victoria 9 will have 8K skin maps or not

    Tks, that would mean I could use these for displacement and/or topcoat in 3DL! 

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,589

    Jason Galterio said:

    Pendraia said:

     

    Don't want to go the database route? Fine. Why not assign each creator a prefix and double check that the prefix is used in the morph name? Then there would only be a conflict with the creator's own work.

    One potential issue with this is that when you create a custom morph for a character it needs to have the same name as the character morph for it to autofollow when you dial the character in.

    That said I frequently use my initials as a prefix for other morphs but I mainly do freebies.

    The worst issues I have had are packages that have a different morphs named using real names.A package might have six morphs; Angelica, Bethany, Cathy, Denise, Erin, and Francine let's say.

    Then this package will conflict with a full character set using one of those names.

    Tracking down the "multi" package can be a pain because you can't search for the top level package name.

    Freebies, other store products, etc, I install to their own Runtime. So those are easy to remove/revise if there is a problem.

    There is no reason why character morphs for the actual character can't have a prefix my Diva morph is named plDiva. It's the clothing that needs to have the same morph name to autofollow.

     

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