Genesis 8.1 / Victoria 8.1

Wonderland · January 2021

charles said:

Daventaki said:

ALLIEKATBLUE said:

Wonderland said:

ChangelingChick said:

If the expressions are working for you, then either you are not working on 4.15 (though previous character morphs wouldn't work on G8.1 if this were the case) or a folder in the data structure got deleted. If neither of these is the case, would put a G8 and a G8.1 next to each other to see if the expressions are identical. I suspect that they will be a little different in some cases at least.

I definitely am using 4.15 and G8.1 and my expressions are all fully working. Could it be because I have Auto Face Enhancer installed? Someone mentioned that could be causing the excessive wrinkles on the forehead.

Nope I have AFE and none of my Z or EJ or P3D expressions work

Mine either I turned AFE on specifically to see if it fixed something but it does not.

Because the pose controllers are missing.

Under controllers, theres this

And those are controlling these:

Wonderland · January 2021

I DO have sub-components!

Daventaki · January 2021

Wonderland said:

I DO have sub-components!

I don't know why yours still works and thats great! But mine don't, I looked up the one you have pictured Z EB 02 Coquettish and I do have that set but it does nothing on my end. There are no sub controllers or components listed when I look at parameters.

Nose scrunch no longer exists on my G8.1F, along with others.

Daventaki · January 2021

Tonights render:

Wonderland · January 2021

Daventaki said:

Wonderland said:

I DO have sub-components!

I don't know why yours still works and thats great! But mine don't, I looked up the one you have pictured Z EB 02 Coquettish and I do have that set but it does nothing on my end. There are no sub controllers or components listed when I look at parameters.

Nose scrunch no longer exists on my G8.1F, along with others.

Did you try uninstalling then reinstalling G8 Daz expressions in DIM?

Asari · January 2021

@Wonderland Very good point here. In CGI, photorealism is often associated with very high skin details. That means pores, skin structure, wrinkles, and peach fuzz. As a result, mature people in cgi tend to look more photorealistic. Thats even true for DAZ characters, Floyd, Alexandra and Christian are among the most realistic ones. But as you said, photography of humans do not need so many visible skin details and still, look photorealistic. I always say "fake" and photorealism are different. You can take a photo and photoshop it excessively and the result can still be photorealistic. Glamour photoshoots have people who have perfect skin without pores, no wrinkles, maybe even faces with photoshopped symmetry and this style might not be everyone's taste but still, it is photorealistic.

nicstt · January 2021

Luciel said:

PerttiA said:

Luciel said:

PerttiA said:

Jabba said:

I don't have any renders to hand yet, but I really like Victoria 8.1...

...While she might at first appear a bit less glamorous than Victoria 8, she has a more typical everyday body shape that will lend itself much better to blending with other shape morphs for custom characters - it's always easier to add to small breasts than it is to reduce large breasts with the morphs we have - much less of an arch in her lower back, but a pinch in at the waist and she can be glammed-up in a thrice.

There might be a couple of things I would prefer to be different, but to get that sort of detail, I'd really need to improve my own sculpting skills and get stuck in myself - V8.1 is a step in the more versatile direction, which I see as a good thing.

I think she is also the first Victoria that's not 6 feet tall, which brings her closer to reality.

As some who's over "6 feet" tall, and has several female friends who are taller than me, how is being taller than whatever your local average not "reality".

That's the same logic as with the female bumpers... Since I know a woman with two beach balls on her chest, that should be the starting point for any 3D base model as well...

It's just easier to make things bigger and taller than smaller and shorter, at least has been with these models ever since I got onto the wagon with V3/V4.

Perhaps you actually meant "closer to average" not "closer to reality" then?

As there's women with (exceptionally) large breasts in "reality", a large breasted woman isn't necessarily any more "unrealistic" than an "average" or "small" breasted woman. You could claim she was "not average" but, a Albino and exceptionally short people aren't either. You have to remember these are creations made with artistic license rather than as a statistical representation of the humans of the planet (I mean, there's no obese female core characters).

If anything, in experience, making things bigger is harder as the textures get more stretched (squished textures generally don't look so bad). None of the base models work well with "beach ball" sized breasts..

Not if the textures are painted on the new shape; if merchant resources are used then they will stretch.

Thyranq · January 2021

Petra said:

My first render with Victoria 8.1.

I think she is very cute.

Fantastic work! That lighting is magnificent! Mind if I ask what you used?

scorpio · January 2021

Daventaki said:

Wonderland said:

I DO have sub-components!

I don't know why yours still works and thats great! But mine don't, I looked up the one you have pictured Z EB 02 Coquettish and I do have that set but it does nothing on my end. There are no sub controllers or components listed when I look at parameters.

Nose scrunch no longer exists on my G8.1F, along with others.

I have things missing as well notably the Upper and Lower eyelid controls, and I'm not buying something like AFE just to get things I've already purchased working, how can this be seen as a advance if it removes things you have already paid for. Even the new face rig doesn't seem to be much different to the face rig already availble just more complicated, unstable and difficult to control.

Daventaki · January 2021

Wonderland said:

Daventaki said:

Wonderland said:

I DO have sub-components!

I don't know why yours still works and thats great! But mine don't, I looked up the one you have pictured Z EB 02 Coquettish and I do have that set but it does nothing on my end. There are no sub controllers or components listed when I look at parameters.

Nose scrunch no longer exists on my G8.1F, along with others.

Did you try uninstalling then reinstalling G8 Daz expressions in DIM?

No I didn't but I just looked at the pages for the expressions and the head morphs and those moprhs are not included with either package. Honestly everything (except missing expressions of course) is working and I hate to go uninstalling things and causing other problems. Those same morphs work fine for G8F.

Wonderland · January 2021

Daventaki said:

Wonderland said:

Daventaki said:

Wonderland said:

I DO have sub-components!

I don't know why yours still works and thats great! But mine don't, I looked up the one you have pictured Z EB 02 Coquettish and I do have that set but it does nothing on my end. There are no sub controllers or components listed when I look at parameters.

Nose scrunch no longer exists on my G8.1F, along with others.

Did you try uninstalling then reinstalling G8 Daz expressions in DIM?

No I didn't but I just looked at the pages for the expressions and the head morphs and those moprhs are not included with either package. Honestly everything (except missing expressions of course) is working and I hate to go uninstalling things and causing other problems. Those same morphs work fine for G8F.

It’s worth it if you want to use expressions for G8.1. There are a lot of new ones too like Mouth Funnel, Mouth Press ( R/L,) Mouth Shrug (R/L), Mouth Strech (R&L) I think Mouth Dimple is also new, and a bunch more for eyes, cheeks and jaw has new stuff, nose added nasal flare in addition to Nostrils Flex... I’m not sure why others can’t access this. I uninstalled and reinstalled both Starter Essentials and the expressions because G 8.1 wasn’t showing up at all, but after I did, G8.1 was there with all expressions working.

Matt_Castle · January 2021

Wonderland said:
I’m not sure why others can’t access this.

Because, if correctly installed, G8.1F has two folders (installed by the new Starter Essentials and the updated standard G8F expression pack) at...

data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\
data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\

... that are full of dummy placeholder morphs that G8.1F is seemingly supposed to pick up in lieu of the standard G8F expression controls, hiding those controls on G8.1F.

Note that I'm not recommending removing these folders, as I'm not certain why this choice was made* - it could well be for valid technical reasons that they break something in someway, or it may simply be to avoid the confusion of two very similar sets of controls on the figure's face. (I'm personally currently using my G8.1F as a guinea pig to see what - if anything - breaks if the old controls are accessible, but as I'm not official Daz staff, this is not a suggestion to screw with your library installs)

However, this is the "why" of why most people cannot access the G8.0F controls on G8.1F - they are seemingly deliberately blocked, assuming your DS and library packages are all up-to-date and working correctly.

* I am avoiding cynical answers for why this was done - when G8.1F is a deliberate attempt at compatibility and continuity, I can't see Daz deliberately wanting to invalidate old expressions for commercial reasons. I can't imagine expression packs are one of their mega-profitable sellers.

lilweep · January 2021

Zilvergrafix said:

Visuimag said:

I will say, I wonder if DAZ characters can finally reach this level at some point in 8.1's life. If Vicky 8's skin is anything to go by, we may get close (particularly if skins are built with XYZ in mind)!

So realistic that looks unrealistic, that is why neither Pixar nor Sony Animation Studios does not make realistic animations, there will always be a denial from the public to accept that "it is"

what do you think all Daz figures are then - cartoons?

Daventaki · January 2021

Wonderland said:

It’s worth it if you want to use expressions for G8.1. There are a lot of new ones too like Mouth Funnel, Mouth Press ( R/L,) Mouth Shrug (R/L), Mouth Strech (R&L) I think Mouth Dimple is also new, and a bunch more for eyes, cheeks and jaw has new stuff, nose added nasal flare in addition to Nostrils Flex... I’m not sure why others can’t access this. I uninstalled and reinstalled both Starter Essentials and the expressions because G 8.1 wasn’t showing up at all, but after I did, G8.1 was there with all expressions working.

I tried both and it did not work.

Matt_Castle said:

Wonderland said:
I’m not sure why others can’t access this.

Because, if correctly installed, G8.1F has two folders (installed by the new Starter Essentials and the updated standard G8F expression pack) at...

data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\
data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\

... that are full of dummy placeholder morphs that G8.1F is seemingly supposed to pick up in lieu of the standard G8F expression controls, hiding those controls on G8.1F.

Note that I'm not recommending removing these folders, as I'm not certain why this choice was made* - it could well be for valid technical reasons that they break something in someway, or it may simply be to avoid the confusion of two very similar sets of controls on the figure's face. (I'm personally currently using my G8.1F as a guinea pig to see what - if anything - breaks if the old controls are accessible, but as I'm not official Daz staff, this is not a suggestion to screw with your library installs)

However, this is the "why" of why most people cannot access the G8.0F controls on G8.1F - they are seemingly deliberately blocked, assuming your DS and library packages are all up-to-date and working correctly.

* I am avoiding cynical answers for why this was done - when G8.1F is a deliberate attempt at compatibility and continuity, I can't see Daz deliberately wanting to invalidate old expressions for commercial reasons. I can't imagine expression packs are one of their mega-profitable sellers.

I knew those files had something to do with it! Although to me they look like they point to the right files in the G8 folders but maybe im looking at them wrong. Please keep us updated! I have to go to bed because I work tonight so ill be mostly offline over the next 3 days but I will check back into this thread!

Ron Knights · January 2021

I looked over Victoria 8.1 and the bundle that was offered.... The bundle does not interest me.

Matt_Castle · January 2021

Daventaki said:
I knew those files had something to do with it! Although to me they look like they point to the right files in the G8 folders but maybe im looking at them wrong. Please keep us updated! I have to go to bed because I work tonight so ill be mostly offline over the next 3 days but I will check back into this thread!

Well, if they're supposed to point to the G8.0F files and link them in, they're not working properly. I can report that removing the folders (or, in my case, moving them to a back-up location I can restore them from if necessary) does seem to allow G8.1F to pick up all the old G8.0F expression controls instead.

Still, assuming the files were working as they should, the question does remain as to why the choice was made to disable these controls. I've yet to see any obvious problems, (beyond a slightly longer load time), but I haven't done nearly as much testing on G8.1F as Daz has, and I don't have any insight into the behind the scenes stuff, so right now, it's very much an at-your-own-risk fix if anyone wants to try it.

Platnumk · January 2021

Daventaki said:

Wonderland said:

It’s worth it if you want to use expressions for G8.1. There are a lot of new ones too like Mouth Funnel, Mouth Press ( R/L,) Mouth Shrug (R/L), Mouth Strech (R&L) I think Mouth Dimple is also new, and a bunch more for eyes, cheeks and jaw has new stuff, nose added nasal flare in addition to Nostrils Flex... I’m not sure why others can’t access this. I uninstalled and reinstalled both Starter Essentials and the expressions because G 8.1 wasn’t showing up at all, but after I did, G8.1 was there with all expressions working.

I tried both and it did not work.

Matt_Castle said:

Wonderland said:
I’m not sure why others can’t access this.

Because, if correctly installed, G8.1F has two folders (installed by the new Starter Essentials and the updated standard G8F expression pack) at...

data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\
data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\

... that are full of dummy placeholder morphs that G8.1F is seemingly supposed to pick up in lieu of the standard G8F expression controls, hiding those controls on G8.1F.

Note that I'm not recommending removing these folders, as I'm not certain why this choice was made* - it could well be for valid technical reasons that they break something in someway, or it may simply be to avoid the confusion of two very similar sets of controls on the figure's face. (I'm personally currently using my G8.1F as a guinea pig to see what - if anything - breaks if the old controls are accessible, but as I'm not official Daz staff, this is not a suggestion to screw with your library installs)

However, this is the "why" of why most people cannot access the G8.0F controls on G8.1F - they are seemingly deliberately blocked, assuming your DS and library packages are all up-to-date and working correctly.

* I am avoiding cynical answers for why this was done - when G8.1F is a deliberate attempt at compatibility and continuity, I can't see Daz deliberately wanting to invalidate old expressions for commercial reasons. I can't imagine expression packs are one of their mega-profitable sellers.

I knew those files had something to do with it! Although to me they look like they point to the right files in the G8 folders but maybe im looking at them wrong. Please keep us updated! I have to go to bed because I work tonight so ill be mostly offline over the next 3 days but I will check back into this thread!

I can confirm that removing the files from the "Base Pose Head" folder does indeed allow G8 Expressions to work (even the Visemes ones show up & work)

w_r_brook_ec9f3e956e · January 2021

Matt_Castle said:

Wonderland said:
I’m not sure why others can’t access this.

Because, if correctly installed, G8.1F has two folders (installed by the new Starter Essentials and the updated standard G8F expression pack) at...

data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\
data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\

... that are full of dummy placeholder morphs that G8.1F is seemingly supposed to pick up in lieu of the standard G8F expression controls, hiding those controls on G8.1F.

Note that I'm not recommending removing these folders, as I'm not certain why this choice was made* - it could well be for valid technical reasons that they break something in someway, or it may simply be to avoid the confusion of two very similar sets of controls on the figure's face. (I'm personally currently using my G8.1F as a guinea pig to see what - if anything - breaks if the old controls are accessible, but as I'm not official Daz staff, this is not a suggestion to screw with your library installs)

However, this is the "why" of why most people cannot access the G8.0F controls on G8.1F - they are seemingly deliberately blocked, assuming your DS and library packages are all up-to-date and working correctly.

* I am avoiding cynical answers for why this was done - when G8.1F is a deliberate attempt at compatibility and continuity, I can't see Daz deliberately wanting to invalidate old expressions for commercial reasons. I can't imagine expression packs are one of their mega-profitable sellers.

Thanks! This worked perfectly! I've been wrestling with this for some days, including renaming the 'MouthOpen' morph as '.old' , but I guess it loads them anyway - I have a lot still to learn about Daz Studio. But removing the above two folders completely to a backup has now magically restored all my expression libraries. Just FYI for others, running macos Catalina and Daz Studio 4.15 beta. Nothing appears to be messed up by removing these folders, so far as I can see, but I have them backed up just in case. The 8.1 new expressions and morphs still seem to work just fine.

Chohole · January 2021

Some posts have been removed. Please keep the discussion civil. Thank you.

Petra · January 2021

Thyranq said:

Petra said:

My first render with Victoria 8.1.

I think she is very cute.

Fantastic work! That lighting is magnificent! Mind if I ask what you used?

I used this one https://www.daz3d.com/pro-studio-hdr-lighting-system. Thank you for your kind words.

PerttiA · January 2021

Ok, updated my W7, installed Nvidia 456.38 Game Ready drivers and installed DS 4.15.0.2

G8.1F loads fine, G8F morphs work, some of the G8F expressions work and some don't. Didn't find a logical explanation yet, why some work and some don't, but the ones that don't are giving warnings in the log and the dials have no Sub-Components for them => DS doesn't know what to do with the dial.

daveso · January 2021

it must be the lighting, but I bought just V8.1 for the textures, but not that happy with them...they look waxy /chalky or something.

Amaranth · January 2021

my first attempt with Genesis 8.1 and Victoria 8.1 skin

IceCrMn · January 2021

PerttiA said:

Ok, updated my W7, installed Nvidia 456.38 Game Ready drivers and installed DS 4.15.0.2

G8.1F loads fine, G8F morphs work, some of the G8F expressions work and some don't. Didn't find a logical explanation yet, why some work and some don't, but the ones that don't are giving warnings in the log and the dials have no Sub-Components for them => DS doesn't know what to do with the dial.

I'm not trying to be a smarty pants or anything like that, but scroll up a few posts.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6427116/#Comment_6427116

Kharma · January 2021

w_r_brook_ec9f3e956e said:

Matt_Castle said:

Wonderland said:
I’m not sure why others can’t access this.

Because, if correctly installed, G8.1F has two folders (installed by the new Starter Essentials and the updated standard G8F expression pack) at...

data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\
data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\

... that are full of dummy placeholder morphs that G8.1F is seemingly supposed to pick up in lieu of the standard G8F expression controls, hiding those controls on G8.1F.

Note that I'm not recommending removing these folders, as I'm not certain why this choice was made* - it could well be for valid technical reasons that they break something in someway, or it may simply be to avoid the confusion of two very similar sets of controls on the figure's face. (I'm personally currently using my G8.1F as a guinea pig to see what - if anything - breaks if the old controls are accessible, but as I'm not official Daz staff, this is not a suggestion to screw with your library installs)

However, this is the "why" of why most people cannot access the G8.0F controls on G8.1F - they are seemingly deliberately blocked, assuming your DS and library packages are all up-to-date and working correctly.

* I am avoiding cynical answers for why this was done - when G8.1F is a deliberate attempt at compatibility and continuity, I can't see Daz deliberately wanting to invalidate old expressions for commercial reasons. I can't imagine expression packs are one of their mega-profitable sellers.

Thanks! This worked perfectly! I've been wrestling with this for some days, including renaming the 'MouthOpen' morph as '.old' , but I guess it loads them anyway - I have a lot still to learn about Daz Studio. But removing the above two folders completely to a backup has now magically restored all my expression libraries. Just FYI for others, running macos Catalina and Daz Studio 4.15 beta. Nothing appears to be messed up by removing these folders, so far as I can see, but I have them backed up just in case. The 8.1 new expressions and morphs still seem to work just fine.

@Wonderland Since you had to reinstall your starter essentials and expressions have you checked to see if these 2 folders just didn't install for you and that is possibly why your expressions worked right from the start?

PerttiA · January 2021

IceCrMn said:

PerttiA said:

Ok, updated my W7, installed Nvidia 456.38 Game Ready drivers and installed DS 4.15.0.2

G8.1F loads fine, G8F morphs work, some of the G8F expressions work and some don't. Didn't find a logical explanation yet, why some work and some don't, but the ones that don't are giving warnings in the log and the dials have no Sub-Components for them => DS doesn't know what to do with the dial.

I'm not trying to be a smarty pants or anything like that, but scroll up a few posts.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6427116/#Comment_6427116

That didn't explain either, since there are only placeholders for some DAZ expressions, not every possible PA made expression in every package.

I'll track down the morph files and check what they are not finding

takezo_3001 · January 2021

ragamuffin57 said:

Make of this what you will but over on ArtStation Herschel Hoffmeyer who has been a PA here posted this on his blog Mystique line is still coming and will release next month. However, after that, I will be taking a break from the Mystique line with the new 8.1 Gen 8 update. I may be doing a Mystique 3 line next year pushing the realism even further. I also have a feeling more Daz figure updates are coming soon so I'm going to wait and see how that pans out.

So I am with you Visuimag

I have posted elsewhere that as already mentioned Daz has to pull its finger out to bring its software or its content to a level to appeal to a greater and more professional audience which includes us

all the negative comments have been heard on every incarnation of a new Genesis figure upgrade

How many people having a moan are happy to fork out for the lastest graphics card ££££ yet grumble that a few items amongst their content won't work

But tell me a hobby that does not cost ???

I have content that I have had from V1 M1 days and posette from poser days

Yet here we all are looking at what Daz is offering us in G 8.1

You find other software updating almost yearly or more often like substance painter yet I only see advancements, not problems just have to relook at how you work with the program after upgrades which happens with all manner of things in real life

The old mental ray has been replaced in 2017 and now Arnold seems the go-to renderer

Vray broke backwards compatibility I believe ( I have no hard evidence) but certainly it has improved a lot and most probably broke peoples workflow

Do we want to stay in the backwaters with poser or push forward with development?

The gripes I have is fresnel has been removed within the new pbr shader

But I am happy to forgo my old content to achieve more realism

Yes some here are more than happy with the manga style or stylised characters that's fine whatever floats your boat

But do we all here really want to have a software that all you can produce is renders that look doll-like, plastic, waxy characters ? Oh like Poser If you like that thing fine. But I for one want a more dynamic Daz updating the software a lot more frequently and improving their genesis range on a more frequent basis than having an upgrade after three years

Also more documentation

So from my rant do I like G 8.1 Yes I do looking forward to hopefully seeing this incarnation add more to its capabilities soft body. better bones maybe being able to use XYZ and integrating substance painter in bringing G8.1 to life Daz can as it has some if not the best off the shelf characters that can be easily customised by novice hobbyist or professional alike

My two pennies worth

Less 2 pennies more like 2 $100 bills!

I for one welcome Daz stepping away from 2005 and going forward well past 2021, but they won't do that by only catering to auto-artist dollars, but by allowing both the semi-pro/advanced hobbyist to create while still having the vital entry-level/auto artist dollars that help dominate and partially fuel the Daz store and our genre within the 3D art industry...

My issue is that while providing an accurate real-world lighting mode (Spectral render mode) and advanced human shaders (The PBR skin shader) we cannot use both in conjunction with each other, which entirely defeats the purpose of having them within the same program! What I mean is, that you get pronounced texture seams when using the new PBR shader in conjunction with the spectral rendering mode, sure I found a work-around but that workaround takes away from the PBR's overall effect!

(And no, just turning off the spectral render mode is not an option if you're striving for realism with your renders!)

It's pretty maddening to work so hard at producing realistic results for some of the most inexpensive and highly viable/realistic characters within the 3D hobbyist realm, to just throw an angry cat into a dog park as it were... I mean what is the point of having spectral rendering and PBR skin shaders when you cannot use them in conjunction with each other?

That said, I still champion Daz as the most unique and vital resource for the 3D art community, as no other exists as the most realistic (Save for the issues I brought up) solution for both professional artists and hobbyists alike while providing extreme ease-of-use for the auto artist to be able to create, just do not fall under the allure of only providing for auto-artist dollars or else you risk going the very route as other less successful programs!

Petra · January 2021

Amaranth said:

my first attempt with Genesis 8.1 and Victoria 8.1 skin

That is so beautiful. What light did you use. The skin looks amazing, did you apply the PBR shader over it?

Virtual_World · January 2021

Thank you Petra, nonesuch00 and dawnblade! I definitely need to keep playing with the lights until I find the right one for this new shader.

Kharma · January 2021

I removed those 2 data folders and now all my expressions are working on V8.1. I am thinking that Daz will submit a fix for this soon? I did file a support ticket on Friday with screen shots .

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