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© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.Daz 3D is part of
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
When Studio 4.9 was released with the integrated Encrypted Daz Connect (they meant DRM but folks don't like DRM), they said they had done all the changes to make it easier for new users to find stuff; the forum went into melt-down. This hasn't been the same, but I'm getting the same vibe; obviously it's just my opinion, but there are a number of comments that have reinforced my feeling. There are no comments that have reassured me.
I was actually quite interested in this, and curious to see what it did. It fell down on the forced restart.
... Hopefully Daz will sort it out, and we'll be able to use DIM as normal, even when trying this out. Ideally being able to use both would be the way forward.
Personally, why wasn't DIM improved? It does most of what it says on the tin really well. It's only issue is search, but even that is not too bad, and being able to use regex is helpful for those that know what it is and how to create search terms.
In my read, I didn't see any overt confirmation of that. When DAZ_RawB writes something like "No, DRM will never be part of the new DazCentral system", then I'll raise my cynical eyebrows and admit that "hmmm, they weren't trying to smuggle it in again, silly me..."
(FWIW, I understand and even support the DRM motivation, but as an honest customer that saw the 'Connect' fiasco unfold, my response isn't exactly unprovoked)
But let me offer a beer-bet that cynically predicts that DRM *will* be integrated someday - as will direct store purchasing features - both fine by me. Just note that I'm betting in favor of DAZ's interests, not the user-base's.
You on?
Excellent idea! Good thinking on the part of DAZ.
Per my comments ("good for DAZ and future customers"), I *can* see the logic/motivation of this tool. And FWIW, I use and like DIM for my download management.
But... As I stated in a recent previous post, when you tell a veteran userbase/audience in the first 4 lines of a forum announcement that 'We heard your voices', then a few posts later describe the tool as 'being designed for new users', the flurry of commentary that it has generated in this crowd doesn't surprise me at all.
This product simply was not designed for 95% of *us*. And that's fine and it's good to for us to know.
And I think it's safe to assume that my interests in using it to import foreign data probably won't be found here, even if they never actually answer the question - it's implied. New users won't need that. Fine.
I'm pragmatic and blunt, which often comes across as mean or vindictive when I sense hidden agendas or plain BS, but in most of my commentary, deleted or otherwise, there are usually truths that might be worth discussing. I just don't wrap 'em with a pretty bow anymore.
--ms
[not relevant anymore]..
I don't think anyone is wilfully withholding an answer to the question about third-party content, but I doubt it has been tested so it's waiting on someone giving it a go.
Don't forget that Daz Rawb said above that DIM and Daz Central are the same base core, so I doubt this is a matter of development costs (and I'd hold out hope that cool stuff added to DC will find its way into DIM too). I think the "you" who "spoke" would eb the silent(ish) group who use the content and applications but don't post on the forums.
I'm pretty sure that DIM and Daz Central won't introduce some kind of DRM - they are dealing with plain zips, albeit with a particular structure - but I wouldn't bet on there never being a return to DRM (I get sent links to the industrial-scale warez sites that are leaching on Daz content).
Has there been an offocial answer about the login issues and the 0KB un-installer?
- Greg
Thanks for posting this! I have fought long and hard to get a working content archetecture on my d drive, the very last thing I need is what you just described! Not going on my main PC render machine! I would consider trying it on my mac but....Daz didn't even say it was coming to mac soon;) to bad cause it looks cool.
Not that I have seen.
After being bought by new owners, WalMart began locking behind glass several items. In order to make a purchase, customers would have to locate and wait for an "associate" to unlock and retrieve the item so they could stand in a separate line and purchase those items. WalMart may have avoided losing money through theft, but much of the difference was lost by longtime customers deciding to shop elsewhere, not to mention the ill will it engendered.
Bean counters and suits will insist on DRM, but artistic types are not like normal people (which is why they are the first to be rounded up), and they will reject/resist these moves whenever feasible. Learn from history: DRM fails, one way or another.
This is not a DRM tool. These diversions are distracting from discussion of what is being offered.
There is a security update that means soem passwords are not accepted and need updating - that's why I have mentioned in several places that short or simple passwords may need to be cghanged (as many of you had already discovered, of course)..
Thanks I had just been looking in this thread since the problem only popped up immediately after installing DazCentral.
- Greg
Yes but initially when the problem occurred for people the answer was 'its a server issue', I got the solution through trail and error but nothing official has been stated as to why this change suddenly became neccassary and was not apparently know about.
Well I just saw, and am trying it...
Things to be aware of:
There is a plugins tab, and on my it has "Starship Sky Hammer", "Keiko 6 Ponytail", "Fighting Monk"...many more? Are these plugins?
This is quite "beta"...and a little too over-simplified for me. Good luck with it! This is just FYI/feedback, as I uninstalled.
Erase data base information too. All the info. Even the store Ids created with daz example scripts were annihilated. Erase DIM information too.
Here we disagree. I think they would very much *like* to give an answer that they simply can't afford, given the limited resources available to them. Probably the right call, but be honest about it. By-and-large, this is a super-reasonable community of really smart people who can both handle the reality of trade-offs.
I would counter-speculate that nobody in the dev group has been explicitly tasked to work on the ability to import native renderosity/hivewire zipfiles into the DIM or DAZCentral core. really. and I get that, but the assumption that there's already something in there to 'give a go' ... hmmm. nope. not buying it. makes no sense. I''d love to be wrong here.
DIM can't natively import foreign data of any kind! Was clearly never designed to. In fact, it still cannot properly handle DAZ Bryce (tm) or DAZ Carrara (tm) content zipfiles after 5 years! (and yes, even *this* makes sense to me, however much I don't like it).
And getting useful content and smart-data for foreign data into the DAZ database took Riverdside Art months of work and study according to his/her own product backstory. I'm sure those development costs were quite substantial to them.
Per @mrinal's salient description of the complexity of this import capability, I would disagree that development costs aren't relevant here, and a counter that it has *everything* to do with development costs, and rightly so. It may still be worth doing (for existing customers), or it may never be worth doing (for new customers) - it's a complex ROI estimation, but I can't, without some common-sense-based push-back believe the idea that it's already in the core and we just need to wait for the code to mature. Not without some substantiation (anything hint/indication all would be welcomed). The existing DIM options and natural market tensions don't align with this representation of the current situation.
Re: DIM<->DAZCentral symbiosis - I also sincerely hope the improvements in the core are bi-directional - double win for DAZ too. Based on the early returns, I'll continue to watch with a cautious eye, saving my older installers as we go.
Are you speculating that there's a large number of silent users that have tried and really like the new DAZ Central tool, and haven't experienced any of the problems described in here?
Sounds like another beer-bet to me. A good many of the folks in this thread that have tried this new tool and had problems are some of the most DS-savvy veterans in our user-community. These are the best of the best, and many are blue-blood DAZ supporters to the core. The early returns are mixed, but it is a beta.
All I have to go on is market forces and the comments in this thread, but I know how I'll be betting.
I don't even know where to start on this (I sure they won't but bet they will), other than appreciating that the data-theft is a real problem to which I have no good answer.
What I want with my data (import/export/control/flexibility), is exactly what makes the data so easy to steal. I think the "grey line" will always be making it hard enough to not be easy to steal, while making it easy enough for legit customers like me to still reach our intended cross-platform data-transfer workflows and goals. It's a tough one for sure, and it's tough for everyone in all of the content and media-based industries.
There's a fascinating dynamic in the broader marketplace, where the "have's" can and do pay, and the "have-nots" filch and steal, and the "in-betweens" define the dynamics of battleground each day. Open-source, I-tunes, phone-services, DAZ free app w/paid content - all trying to establish their footings in a very very fluid context. I'm sure it will all look very different in 10 years, and yet somehow it will be the same :)
What's encouraging is the ever-rising invoice number count each day in the store, which indicates to me that many other honest and good people like us are still paying fair value for quality goods and services.
cheers,
--ms
but appreciated when originally posted.
be well,
--ms
Admittedly I don't use Bryce or Carrara much, but I've never had problems installing their content with DIM.
No, I think that problems installing and finding content are still the biggest issue new users face. There are a lot of these in the New Users forum, and there are probably a lot of new users who don't use (or even know about) the forums and submit help tickets about it. I definitely got the impression long ago that it was the single biggest source of customer support tickets. I don't know if that's still the case, but it seems to have been the driver behind developing DIM, and then Connect, and now DazCentral, so I suspect it still is.
In a word, it doesn't work. Never has, really - at least for native B/C content. Some power-users swear by it for the DAZ/Poser content that they use in Carrara, which bears mention. Given that this new tool is based on the DIM core, perhaps Carrara/Bryce will benefit and get some attention here too. (anyone know if DAZ Central has menu/install options for Bryce or Carrara or Hexagon? Any success in using them, if so?)
I love DIM for the download management for these tools, but manually install from there - especially now that I customize my stuff so much anyway. The point is that DIM is, has, will be, and probably should be DS oriented - as this is clearly DAZ's core business direction.
To remake my original point (without snarkiness), can you get DIM or DAZ Central to install a hivewire or rendo zipfile? Do you expect this functionality in the near future? The question is valid, and still hasn't really been answered. I won't count on it as I review the placement of this new resource in my toolkit. And that's OK.
Absolutely. In my TL;DR comments, I do actually acknowledge this, and acknowledge DAZ for their choice addressing that future. But it is clearly not intended or designed around the needs of veteran users (who would frequent any of the forums). That's fine, but it wasn't clear who DAZ meant when asserting 'we heard your voices' in the announcement. I assumed they meant us.
I could see and look forward to advanced features being added over time to address many of the installation process subtlties, but DAZ _RawB clarified the current intent, and now many of us can move on, knowing what DAZCentral is, and how we might integrate it as it matures.
Thanks for the response, and I'm gonna leave this topic, as the horse I beat is long-dead.
The best of success to those who embrace this this new utility. Options are always appreciated.
cheers,
--ms
Please pardon me. You mentioned DRM, and I quote:
"I'm pretty sure that DIM and Daz Central won't introduce some kind of DRM - they are dealing with plain zips, albeit with a particular structure - but I wouldn't bet on there never being a return to DRM (I get sent links to the industrial-scale warez sites that are leaching on Daz content)."
and that is the only reason I said anything. I was not attempting to distract from the discussion.
I disagree. DIM, from the beginning, was intended to be and built to be program agnostic. Packages for products that don't use the standard DS/Poser content locations need to be set up correctly -- I know I encountered many Bryce packages that were set up incorrectly. I reported them and they were fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to install a faulty package and concluded that DIM couldn't do it, but AFAICT it can.
DIM can. Obviously it can't download from other stores -- I can't imagine Rendo or HW or any other store letting Daz3D build that ability into DIM, let alone the work on their end to feed the data into DIM. But some content creators at other stores have provided DIM-compatible zip files (if the brokerage allowed it), and many end users have created DIM-compatible zips for products from other sources. There are several PA products here to assist in doing so. While DIM will install metadata if it is present, it isn't required. As for DazCentral, I don't know how it installs things (which is a showstopper for me personally, being a control freak) -- we've been told it uses the DIM core, but given that it launches DS and shows the product in Smart Content, I don't know how it handles products without metadata, or products that don't have the DS/Poser content format. I recall it only showing DS and Hexagon (although it picked up the paths for Bryce and Carrara from my DIM settings), so it presumably is set up to work with Hexagon.
Yes, I agree completely -- the thread title and first post should have made clear that this was for new users. It's certainly not "your new Content Manager" for me, and I think it won't fit the needs of most veteran users.
Near as I can tell, this doesn't do anything useful.
The only feature I need is the ability to determine if a product has been updated since I last downloaded it. i.e. a remedial level of revision control that has been availble planet wide for the last 50 years or so. Heck, even putting a version number on downloaded files would be incredibly massively horrifically monsterously valuable. I CRAVE THAT.
I don't and most likely never will use so called 'smart content' as it requires the maintenance and sorting of materials as well as a duplication of the existing database (the file system). It also suffers from massive clutter so.. meh.
Maybe I'm wrong... does Daz Central handle normal use of Daz Content? Namely moving files around and sorting content?
some good points/corrections - I must of given up before the DIM issues were fixed.
thanks for the response/thoughts.
--ms
DIM already does this, for installed content and for content with the zip (or at least the matching .dsx file) in the Downloads folder.
The file system isn't a database, which is the whole point - the CMS (of which Smart Content is only a part) allows organisation without moving fiels around, which means things can be duplicated (placed in more than one category) for a minimal amount of additional data.
Seconded.
Ironically, the previous system of content downloads, the last major change before DAZ switched from executable installers to the current system of zip downloads, did incorporate a sort of version number in the file name. It was handy, but it fell down a bit with download sizes so big they needed to be split into multiple installers.
Something else that was done a few store changes before that (in the pre-DIM days, so everyone had to download manually) was putting a column for the "last updated" date in the store downloads page. This one fell down because DAZ kept forgetting to update the "last update" data.
Between DIM and searching the store with the DAZ Deals browser addon, I think there is more functionality for the way I do things, but I'm glad that DAZ has created something for new users.
I've only just checked the Products section of my account, and found this.
After reading this thread, I'll be sticking with DIM.
Someone said about DRM and third-party content. Imagine getting rid of all of the competition, so that your product is the only thing left... (I'm not aiming that at Daz, it's just DRM in general).
Although, if this DRM thing is making a comeback, I won't be supporting it. I like my Content Library the way it is.
Richard... All I can do now to see if something has been updated is to redownload it, and count bytes. Revision control from Daz and managed by daz is a complete and total fail. For instance.. Keicy in the store has an update coming.. I dunno when. I dunno if its there.. I cant tell at all. So Richard I've downlaoded it like 4 times now, just to check. Nope not updated. (This would be less of a concern if you folks tested products.. But I constantly find bad files, and broken content. Its so bad that I have a test library to bring in your products and verify them. Note: This is the reason you now have an update for Keicy.)
There's another update coming for another product in your store (a bug I identified for the developer while I was testing it), and I was told that it would take like 35 days for that update to see your other customers. Oh and there's another update coming for another product with missing files that I found. The list goes on and on.
Other websites can tell me if there's been an update since I downloaded. Other websites display verson numbers which are useful even if they aren't part of the file name.. And clearly, I'm not the only person who's noticed that this is a real concern. (see above)
And stop claiming a file system isn't a database. It is. From my perspective keeping and maintaining two data bases is just more work. I'd still need to be familiar with both (the mess of installs and cleaned management database) in order to integrate other content.
The only place I can't clean up right now is the parameter settings inside Genesis. Its not too bad, but there are days... unhappy days... when I'm rummaging around in there trying to find where a morph was hidden.
I said Install Manager and Connect show if there is an update, if you are manually downloading then there is no indicator. You can use DIM to download but not to install if you want update notices with manual installation.
The file systerm isn't a relational database, if you prefer - as far as the user is concerned it's just a list of containers with conrtent. If you used categories you would not need to do anything with the file system, just add to/rearrange the categories.
The file system is a database, Richard is how Daz and Poser have always used it. If you have new ideas that are different from how you use it, its probably not best to redfine its existing use. There are plenty of solutions that satisfy your relational database desires while also continuing to use the software as it has always been used. Off the top of my head, just put all the files in a nice neat location, and put links to them where we traditonally and always have messed them around. (That would even play nice with your encryption.) Another viable solution would be to put definition files (txt) in the directories that describe what's there. Then if they got moved, you'd easily find them again.
I guess I'll attempt to try DIM. Of course failed, and I've wasted an hour so far with the official advice from Daz baing to uninstall everything (hunt for databases, and attempt to cause it to function. Wow an aweful lot of people have had issue with it over the years. (..and that didn't suprise me.)
https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207496406-I-Cannot-Sign-Into-Daz-Connect-and-I-Get-a-Login-Failure-in-Daz-Studio-4-9
After that I'll need to read all the documentation to attempt to configure it, and then it wants to download things? And put them places? Then I manually install my downloads, delete those downloads, and\or put them in my backups... and then Daz will magically tell me what version I have downloaded?
Version numbers are like 5 characters, and you already track what I have. Why so hard?