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Realistic Renders.....NOT!! 13: A new room to fill!

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  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    HeraldOfFire said:
    UberSurface 2 is much like regular UberSurface except it has an additional layer. You can use this to add an extra reflective layer, or an overlay for things such as dust or dirt. Omnifreaker has a good website which details most of the information on how best to use the shader.

    I looked at that, but, spheres and disjointed faces mean little to me, I want to see it properly applied with renders, I'm surprised nobody did much with it. In certain ways it looks to do more than the AoA shader and yet that seems to be the 'shader du jour', we all know how that works as AoA knows how to demo a product. I can't follow video tutorials either, I need something to study or to have beside me when I have DS open. I have a funny feeling that Hellboy may have used it to do that muscled arm render as I tried what he said he did with UberSurface and didn't get results that looked close to his.

    CHEERS!

  • nDelphinDelphi Posts: 1,959
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    Looks great to me.

    CHEERS!

    Great! I guess I am being maniacal. :)

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Sometimes we're at our best when we're manic!

    CHEERS!

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,218
    edited December 1969

    nDelphi said:
    Talking about late in the day.

    This is a sunset test shot of the AVF-35-J Wildhog arriving to escort a Shuttlestar.

    Rendered in Reality/Luxrender. I tried my best to control the scene but the I think I lost it. Maybe the sun is too much.

    This is at 2,135 samples per pixel, will try and reach 3,000 to clear up the jets some more.


    ...that still looks really nice. did you use Skies of Economy for Reality?
  • nDelphinDelphi Posts: 1,959
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    nDelphi said:
    Talking about late in the day.

    This is a sunset test shot of the AVF-35-J Wildhog arriving to escort a Shuttlestar.

    Rendered in Reality/Luxrender. I tried my best to control the scene but the I think I lost it. Maybe the sun is too much.

    This is at 2,135 samples per pixel, will try and reach 3,000 to clear up the jets some more.


    ...that still looks really nice. did you use Skies of Economy for Reality?

    Thanks, I used Skies of Reality Volume Two.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,218
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    GAAAHH!!

    Help meeee,

    I've hit a wall (not literally, more creatively)! I love the Bjorn and M5 Dave textures, BUT, I need characters!! We need artists to get off their behinds and create some nice character morphs and to create textures that make use of the AoA shader as well as Bjorn does. We also need artists NOT to be confused about the shaders they've been using! MaleM3dia says he used the EHSS for Axel and Ryuu, but, he didn't, when you check the shader in the surfaces tab it is in fact UberSurface that was used. FWArt claimed that Koichi used SSS shaders, wrong, it was UberSurface which was used, not the AoA shader, which is what most of us would now consider to be an SSS shader.

    Come on DAZ, get with it, list your content correctly and get your artists creating it. And PLEASE, no more new 6 characters!! Start creating stuff for the ones already out there, once you have, maybe then consider something completely new. The more content available, the more support these characters will get. Don't end up with another D5!

    CHEERS!


    ...I don't purchase a lot of specific character morphs as I tend to rely on the morph sliders and expanded morph sets like the Merchant Resource Morph kits. The majority of the ones I have that weren't included as part of a pro or starter bundle are those by Thorne/Sarsa as they created characters with more petite physiques. Back in the Gen4 days it was hard to dial Vicky's or Aikos' breasts much below a "B"cup without the mesh collapsing and distorting (which affected clothing fits).

    The only other ones I would purchase were the more "generic" ethnic morph kits.

    Personally, I would like to see just more skin map sets (like the Standard/High Res map sets that were available for the Gen3/4 figures) rather than full characters, including a fair skinned freckled map, tan line map, and more natural (sans makeup, tats, or body jewelry) ones that work with AoA's SSS Shader.

    Another peeve I have is eyebrows. I hate it when I have a fair skinned, fair hared character (like my Tracey Teen, Lady Kyle, Mum Grande, or Margo Grande) who winds up having thick dark brown eyebrows. I would love to see a merchant resource kit for Genesis/G2 that offers different colours/thicknesses to replace the standard brows that come with skin maps (years ago there actually was one for the original Toon Girl Sadie called "Sadie Colours" that had matching hair and brow colours, so it can be done). I'm not that good at digital painting because of my unsteady hands so doing this in postwork is pretty much out. The two hair generation systems also can't achieve the level of fineness and minute detail needed to create truly natural looking eyebrows.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,218
    edited December 1969

    nDelphi said:
    Kyoto Kid said:
    nDelphi said:
    Talking about late in the day.

    This is a sunset test shot of the AVF-35-J Wildhog arriving to escort a Shuttlestar.

    Rendered in Reality/Luxrender. I tried my best to control the scene but the I think I lost it. Maybe the sun is too much.

    This is at 2,135 samples per pixel, will try and reach 3,000 to clear up the jets some more.


    ...that still looks really nice. did you use Skies of Economy for Reality?

    Thanks, I used Skies of Reality Volume Two.

    ...ahh, same creator.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited January 2014

    Kyoto Kid said:

    ...I don't purchase a lot of specific character morphs as I tend to rely on the morph sliders and expanded morph sets like the Merchant Resource Morph kits. The majority of the ones I have that weren't included as part of a pro or starter bundle are those by Thorne/Sarsa as they created characters with more petite physiques. Back in the Gen4 days it was hard to dial Vicky's or Aikos' breasts much below a "B"cup without the mesh collapsing and distorting (which affected clothing fits).

    The only other ones I would purchase were the more "generic" ethnic morph kits.

    Personally, I would like to see just more skin map sets (like the Standard/High Res map sets that were available for the Gen3/4 figures) rather than full characters, including a fair skinned freckled map, tan line map, and more natural (sans makeup, tats, or body jewelry) ones that work with AoA's SSS Shader.

    Another peeve I have is eyebrows. I hate it when I have a fair skinned, fair hared character (like my Tracey Teen, Lady Kyle, Mum Grande, or Margo Grande) who winds up having thick dark brown eyebrows. I would love to see a merchant resource kit for Genesis/G2 that offers different colours/thicknesses to replace the standard brows that come with skin maps (years ago there actually was one for the original Toon Girl Sadie called "Sadie Colours" that had matching hair and brow colours, so it can be done). I'm not that good at digital painting because of my unsteady hands so doing this in postwork is pretty much out. The two hair generation systems also can't achieve the level of fineness and minute detail needed to create truly natural looking eyebrows.

    I'd like some decent ethnic faces, and the ability to save any morphs I create, I tried following a tutorial I found on YouTube, and as far as I know I followed what they did, but, it just wouldn't generate the morph. It used to be so easy in Poser with the old inj and rem system. If only it were that simple in DS with Genesis! I know I can save a character preset and have done so.

    It would appear that there is a book:

    http://www.packtpub.com/the-complete-guide-to-daz-studio-4/book

    Now that would make interesting reading! (Definitely one for 2014's to buy list!)

    CHEERS!

    EDIT:

    By following that link, I got the eBook version for £3.88, result!!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,218
    edited December 1969

    ...for someone still relatively new to Daz Studio it is a good resource.

    My only misgiving is over the chapter on modelling a dress as it is based on both Dawn (a non Daz figure) and Modo (a 1,500$ pro grade application) rather than Genesis, Daz's Hexagon, and Daz Studio's Content Creator Tools. On the other hand, the Reality chapter sounds like it would be very valuable.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Not got that far, but, I did find out how to do shaping presets, so, even if I can't save dialable morphs I can at least save stuff I want.

    CHEERS!

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,505
    edited January 2014

    Rogerbee said:
    It would appear that there is a book:

    http://www.packtpub.com/the-complete-guide-to-daz-studio-4/book

    Now that would make interesting reading! (Definitely one for 2014's to buy list!)

    CHEERS!

    EDIT:

    By followings that link, I got the eBook version for £3.88, result!!

    My main issue with it is that the book seems more geared towards novices and has a clear bias for using Reality rather than 3Delight. Some of the comparisons it gives seem to intentionally put 3DL in a bad light as though it was impossible to get similar results.

    That aside, it does cover a decent range of topics. I just wish Paolo had focused more on the default render engine since it's what the majority will be using at first.

    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Well, I am a bit of a novice really, and we should be thankful that somebody had actually taken time to write stuff down so there is something out there. (It's crazy that the book isn't in the Daz store.) It seems, from what I've read, to be understandable too. One thing I did find out last night that wasn't from the book is that we can still make INJ and REM files just like we used to. They're shaping presets now, if you categorise them, you find there are categories for Inject and Remove. We just have to save, name and categorise them, all that's really different from before is that they're DUF's rather than pz2's. It was creating 'shaping presets' (yes, I did just do the 'quotation fingers') that I'd been wanting to do and not creating morphs, I just didn't realise what the old system had been renamed as!

    We're still in school guys! If you have a tutorial in you, go ahead and do it, we all need to learn!

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:

    Another peeve I have is eyebrows. I hate it when I have a fair skinned, fair hared character (like my Tracey Teen, Lady Kyle, Mum Grande, or Margo Grande) who winds up having thick dark brown eyebrows. I would love to see a merchant resource kit for Genesis/G2 that offers different colours/thicknesses to replace the standard brows that come with skin maps (years ago there actually was one for the original Toon Girl Sadie called "Sadie Colours" that had matching hair and brow colours, so it can be done). I'm not that good at digital painting because of my unsteady hands so doing this in postwork is pretty much out. The two hair generation systems also can't achieve the level of fineness and minute detail needed to create truly natural looking eyebrows.

    There have been experiments done with fibermesh that were impressive, and that can be tweaked to be finer than you think it might, there is an example here:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/11703/P30

    If you don't use transmaps you can get it very fine. Thing is, everyone assumes we're using Garibaldi or LAMH and can't be bothered to do anything more with fibermesh. Perhaps we should talk nicely to Zev0!?

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Oh, before I forget......

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

    All the best for 2014!

    CHEERS!

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,218
    edited December 1969

    ...again, I have no modelling skill as I have no stable modelling application that doesn't require an advanced degree in Cryptology to comprehend it's UI (or 1,500$ for one that does work), so dealing with fibremesh is something I need to leave to someone else with the proper expertise.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited January 2014

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...again, I have no modelling skill as I have no stable modelling application that doesn't require an advanced degree in Cryptology to comprehend it's UI (or 1,500$ for one that does work), so dealing with fibremesh is something I need to leave to someone else with the proper expertise.

    True, if you can't do it, talk to someone that can, that was how Eye Surface for Genesis came about. If we're nice to Zev0 he might just make what we need.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,653
    edited January 2014

    Happy new year. The render machine never sleeps

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    138.png
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    Post edited by Bobvan on
  • starionwolfstarionwolf Posts: 3,670
    edited December 1969

    The lady in the pink top has a nice tattoo on her left arm.

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,653
    edited December 1969

    Comes with the texture

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited January 2014

    Rogerbee said:
    We also need artists NOT to be confused about the shaders they've been using! MaleM3dia says he used the EHSS for Axel and Ryuu, but, he didn't, when you check the shader in the surfaces tab it is in fact UberSurface that was used. FWArt claimed that Koichi used SSS shaders, wrong, it was UberSurface which was used, not the AoA shader, which is what most of us would now consider to be an SSS shader.

    You do know that Enhanced Human surface shader is based off of the Uber-shaders from omnifreaker, right? It's built into DS4, where it used to be sold separately.

    So I actually did use HSS. That's how it shows up in the surface tab. So I think you're actually confused.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 110,173
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:
    Rogerbee said:
    We also need artists NOT to be confused about the shaders they've been using! MaleM3dia says he used the EHSS for Axel and Ryuu, but, he didn't, when you check the shader in the surfaces tab it is in fact UberSurface that was used. FWArt claimed that Koichi used SSS shaders, wrong, it was UberSurface which was used, not the AoA shader, which is what most of us would now consider to be an SSS shader.

    You do know that Enhanced Human surface shader is based off of the Uber-shaders from omnifreaker, right? It's built into DS4, where it used to be sold separately.

    So I actually did use HSS. That's how it shows up in the surface tab. So I think you're actually confused.

    Strictly, uberSurface is an enhanced version of (E)HSS since it came later.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited January 2014

    Richard Haseltine said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Rogerbee said:
    We also need artists NOT to be confused about the shaders they've been using! MaleM3dia says he used the EHSS for Axel and Ryuu, but, he didn't, when you check the shader in the surfaces tab it is in fact UberSurface that was used. FWArt claimed that Koichi used SSS shaders, wrong, it was UberSurface which was used, not the AoA shader, which is what most of us would now consider to be an SSS shader.

    You do know that Enhanced Human surface shader is based off of the Uber-shaders from omnifreaker, right? It's built into DS4, where it used to be sold separately.

    So I actually did use HSS. That's how it shows up in the surface tab. So I think you're actually confused.

    Strictly, uberSurface is an enhanced version of (E)HSS since it came later.

    Yeah, but I didn't say ubersurface ;) He 'uber'-ed everything ;)

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Well, I'm only going by what I see on screen,

    If you look at the 2 screenshots, one has Axel loaded, and the surface tab shows UberSurface listed as the shader, the second screenshot shows the Sol texture and that has the Human Surface shader listed. The settings listed for each are different. Had you used the Human Surface Shader for Axel it would show as such in the surfaces tab. You used UberSurface so therefore you should have stated as much in the blurb in the store.

    CHEERS!

    Sol_Screenshot.JPG
    1366 x 768 - 274K
    Axel_Screenshot.JPG
    1366 x 768 - 277K
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,505
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    Well, I'm only going by what I see on screen,

    If you look at the 2 screenshots, one has Axel loaded, and the surface tab shows UberSurface listed as the shader, the second screenshot shows the Sol texture and that has the Human Surface shader listed. The settings listed for each are different. Had you used the Human Surface Shader for Axel it would show as such in the surfaces tab. You used UberSurface so therefore you should have stated as much in the blurb in the store.

    CHEERS!

    I think the point he was making is that they're all pretty much based on the same basic template, and they do all use SSS. The subsurface scatter is nowhere near as pronounced as it is on the Age of Armor subsurface material, but it's certainly noticeable. So, technically FWArt did indeed use SSS shaders, since UberSurface has support for it.

    One thing I like about the Brothers/Sisters packs is that they come with a selection of shaders. One set uses the AoA Subsurface and others use Ubersurface. It gives artists options, and that's always nice to have. I've seen a few others which offer similar choice and variety is one thing that you can never have enough of.

    Of course, I still haven't solved the riddle of why some AoA SS materials only look good at higher render resolutions. I had to render Boys at Play at 3k x 3k pixels to avoid artifacts, and even then there are a few noticeable on the youngest child. Rendering the poor kiddo at anything lower makes him look like he has a very bad case of acne.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited January 2014

    Fair points, but, artists should still list the shaders they use by the correct names, then customers know exactly what it is they're getting. UberSurface is a better shader than the EHSS, so if MaleM3dia had said that Axel used it, who knows, maybe it would have generated more sales!? Also, I bought the FW Koichi because I thought it used the AoA shader and I thought I'd get some nice presets for it. Clearer labeling will lead to less confusion, and in some cases less frustration.

    You could always ask AoA about your issues with the shader

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited January 2014

    Rogerbee said:
    Fair points, but, artists should still list the shaders they use by the correct names, then customers know exactly what it is they're getting. UberSurface is a better shader than the EHSS, so if MaleM3dia had said that Axel used it, who knows, maybe it would have generated more sales!? Also, I bought the FW Koichi because I thought it used the AoA shader and I thought I'd get some nice presets for it. Clearer labeling will lead to less confusion, and in some cases less frustration.

    You could always ask AoA about your issues with the shader

    CHEERS!

    Honestly.

    My product predates Ubersurface. It uses HSS. It's labeled CORRECTLY. I'm not updating descriptions on two year old products just because you didn't know the difference.

    Please don't tell me what I didn't use when you didn't even know. You do your homework.

    Axel generated sales because it looks good, NOT because of some shader, especially one that wasn't even made yet.

    EDIT: FWArt's products are labeled correctly as well just so you know.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited January 2014

    Just as a final note, I'm talking about Axel International for M5. That is what is loaded in the above screenshot I posted (post #533). Is DS4.6 listing the wrong shader!?

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    Just as a final note, I'm talking about Axel International for M5. That is what is loaded in the above screenshot I posted (post #533). Is DS4.6 listing the wrong shader!?

    CHEERS!

    (Sigh) It uses EHSS. What have I been writing in the last few posts? That is how it shows up in the surface tab

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited January 2014

    The second screenshot in my post shows the Elite Sol texture, that uses the EHSS (Elite Human Surface Shader) and it shows as omHumanSurface in the surfaces tab. If the surfaces tab shows omUberSurface then that shader is UberSurface. It can't be any clearer than that. That's called doing your homework.

    I've no more to say on the subject.

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited January 2014

    Rogerbee said:

    The second screenshot in my post shows the Elite Sol texture, that uses the EHSS and it shows as omHumanSurface in the surfaces tab. If the surfaces tab shows omUberSurface then that shader is UberSurface. It can't be any clearer than that. That's called doing your homework.

    I've no more to say on the subject.

    You didn't do any homework. If you did, you're honestly getting an 'F'.

    If EHSS predates Ubersurface and all the parameters uses the 'om' prefix, wouldn't Ubersurface now contain the HSS parameters?

    This is why people think I'm mean. I tell them what something is, they flat out ignore it when they think they know more than I do when I put the product together, then they want to get an attitude. If you didn't know how this stuff was set up TWO YEARS ago, why are you arguing about it?

    Human Surface... Ubersurface... they're ALL referencing the SAME thing.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
This discussion has been closed.