Interconnecting cables for guitar pedals on pedal board

wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572
edited February 2018 in New Users

Hi,

I'm trying to daisy chain effect pedals together on a pedal board.  In the real world, I'd just either make the cables or buy them, I've tried the latter with Studio, but all the cables I've tried don't have morphs or I simply can't fit them properly (bending/resizing). I just don't know the process, yet.  If someone can help, it'd be really appreciated.

In the attached render, I've made a primative cylinder so you can see what I mean. 

Thanks in advance,

Scott

Post edited by wsgentry on
«1

Comments

  • SixDsSixDs Posts: 2,384
    edited February 2018

    When faced with a similar predicament some time ago (needing a guitar cable), my solution was to use a posable rope prop with a plastic or rubber material applied, and simply fit a cylindrical primitive to each end and parent them in place, then apply a metallic material to those. It worked quite well, but a lot will depend on how close your renders are going to be to the items. For closeups of the units you would probably need something more detailed. If you are interested, the poseable rope that I used (sized and scaled to my purposes) is free and can be found here:

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/49469/browse/11/Poser/Posable-Rope-for-Poser

    Post edited by SixDs on
  • Note, though, that the license for the posable rope says 'All rights reserved.' As I understand it, that means you couldn't legally use it for anything you were paid for.

  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572
    edited February 2018

    Thanks.  I'll give the rope a shot.  I'm not using anything for profit so I think I'm good to go.

    If the rope idea doesn't work out, what do folks think about converting an existing cable to a figure and using bones, etc. then saving as a prop?

    Scott

    Post edited by wsgentry on
  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572
    SixDs said:

    When faced with a similar predicament some time ago (needing a guitar cable), my solution was to use a posable rope prop with a plastic or rubber material applied, and simply fit a cylindrical primitive to each end and parent them in place, then apply a metallic material to those. It worked quite well, but a lot will depend on how close your renders are going to be to the items. For closeups of the units you would probably need something more detailed. If you are interested, the poseable rope that I used (sized and scaled to my purposes) is free and can be found here:

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/49469/browse/11/Poser/Posable-Rope-for-Poser

    I have the rope, but I have a question:  How did you get the rope to appear?  (BTW, it does use bones.)

     

  • SixDsSixDs Posts: 2,384
    edited February 2018

    Yes, I know it has bones, which may give you some insight into how to do it if you make your own. As for it not appearing, I don't recall having issues with it, but I'll check if I can find it and see what's up.

    OK, I had a look, and it loads fine for me. Ah, I think I gave you the link to the wrong one. Try this instead:

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/54282/gallery/11/Poser/Easy-Pose-Rope

    Sorry about that - delete the other one.

    Post edited by SixDs on
  • Maybe this is something you can use:

    Create And Bend Pipe Freely In Blender 3D - Beginner Tutorial

    Once you have the pedal board imported into blender you can model your cables then only export the cables and use them in DazStudio.

  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572
    edited February 2018

    Maybe this is something you can use:

    Create And Bend Pipe Freely In Blender 3D - Beginner Tutorial

    Once you have the pedal board imported into blender you can model your cables then only export the cables and use them in DazStudio.

    Thank you.  It looks to be a great thing.  Unfortunately, I don’t have Blender.  I just saw it’s a free download.  I’ll check it out.

    Scott

    Post edited by wsgentry on
  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572
    SixDs said:

    Yes, I know it has bones, which may give you some insight into how to do it if you make your own. As for it not appearing, I don't recall having issues with it, but I'll check if I can find it and see what's up.

    OK, I had a look, and it loads fine for me. Ah, I think I gave you the link to the wrong one. Try this instead:

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/54282/gallery/11/Poser/Easy-Pose-Rope

    Sorry about that - delete the other one.

    No problem at all!  I’ll check it out!  Thank you!

    Scott

  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572
    edited February 2018

    I got blender and I got the different rope.   Both will do what I need, exactly.  Thank you both so much.  The learning curve is what will stop me from using Blender right now, but that's not a bad thing at all. 

    I managed to shade the rope so there is nothing but a smooth, nearly shiny surface.  It will work just fine.  The bones all have adjustments, so that's a great thing.

    Here is a link to a render I uploaded before I made the pedal board.  I plan on making this and a couple of other scenes as realistic as possible. It and another render in that thread are works in progress.  Now, there will be progress! Thank you both again!

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/uploads/FileUpload/58/73c94cb07e598b43ba1abacf744fa7.png

    Scott

    Post edited by wsgentry on
  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983
    edited February 2018

    Yeah you have to invest a bit of time to get used to Blender or you never get used it. No complaines here its for free. One thing to consider is that you may want to switch the mouse buttons for selection and right clicking, like we right handed people are used to.

    In terms of importing/exporting I would suggest to use the OBJ files and DAZ default 1:1 scaling.

     

    Then there is this thing with the default viewport mouse buttom modifier keys for 3D navigation that all 3D software thread a bit different.

    I have good info on how to change them in DS. For Blender you also have options to change them in the settings.

     

    I recently started here to discuss the shading, subdivision and beveling and I see you have some shading trouble with the monitor speakers in the bottom front of your rendering - they are way too flat shaded - change the shading angle or try to apply a SubD modifier.

     

    If you need more equipment and instruments

    ShareCG recources:

    Get yourself a better looking Stratocaster Guitar here (the one you're using have some overal scaling / shaping issue - the neck is to wide I think that looks weird):

     

    Otherwise a realy good rendering - except the shadows on the carpet and the wall.

     But I see what all guitars and other instruments dont have are posable cabels and plugs.

    Therfore I started to model some examples in Blender. The finer details on the all metal plug in the middle would need some custom normal map I think.

     

    PhoneConnector_AudioJack_1.png
    1216 x 680 - 328K
    Post edited by Syrus_Dante on
  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572
    edited February 2018

    Thank you for the comments and suggestions, Syrus_Dante.   I'll look into all of them except the strat. I agree about the fretboard, I've never owned a Fender guitar (currently, two Gibson V's; a 1981 Heritage Korina and a 1985 XPL; a 1984.5 Kramer Baretta, and a Music Man JP6 BFR).  Any guitar I use has to have Floyd Rose on it to be period accurate.  I made my own connectors using primatives but scaling the rope has proven to be an issue as fitting it to connectors doesn't look right at all.  Any idea where I can get decent connectors and poseable cables of varying lengths?

    What can I do about shadows?  The head stock shadow is because of the spotlight.

    Thanks again!

    Scott

    Post edited by wsgentry on
  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983
    edited February 2018

    The Strat

    Look how well this strat I found is made, with realistic proportions and with almost the same body shape and same 'Arcade' like Headstock.

    For the 3D models - not all have acurate proportions. In common there is just a loose standardisation, I found that I can play easier on flat shaped neck profiles and a low string height like with my ibanez model from 78.

    I prefer to play on somethink like this:

    For realistic hand poses while playing - with most cords the thumb is visible behind the neck, but I think this is a matter of playstyle and handsize.

     

    The Rope

    I know right from the start that you would get into the struggle of posing such a short cable. I dont know of a good product that would cover all needs. Its a matter of how many segments you would need, how dense they are and how well the weightmap is made. Also there are some diffrent posing designs with long hirarchy chains like this: forward/reverse easy posing properties or some have the posing center in the middle like a connected and mirrored chain.

    You can make some segments invisible in the Scene pane - also parent the connectors to the right segment / node / bone in the hirarchy chain of the rope figure - with "parent in place" in the options menu.

    Next you should take a look at the Parameters pane to see if there are easy pose Properties. If not you can create your own, with the use of the "Consolidate Properties" setting found in the options menu, next select some nodes bend them all together evenly then create a new Property and ERC-Freeze the current pose of the segments to this slider. You could also create some more advanced master controller properties on the shorter footswitch connector cables to turn them into the desired U shape with one slider while using the 90° conectors.

    Or you invest the time in rigging something from scrach like from the primative tube in DS.

     

    The Light

    I think you have to 1st repossition all three spots to have the lightning come from the upper front like in this club stage environment. Also change some shadow settings and the spread angle and for the main spot to have a softer shadow on the wall. Maybe also add a DOF to the render camera - have a look @ How to Use Depth of Field

    I dont know much about that - how do you render in 3DL or iRay?

    Post edited by Syrus_Dante on
  • MarcCCTxMarcCCTx Posts: 886

    You could use something simple like the cable from this: https://www.daz3d.com/technophilia-data-implants

    There are several other wire type thing from the same pa.

  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572
    edited February 2018

    First, thanks to both Syrus Dante and MarcCCTx for your suggestions.  I like the guitar you came up with Syrus.  My only hold up with it is the licensed Floyd Rose. FYI, I'm going to include a photo of my guitars just for reference.   The Korina V and Baretta have been gigged heavily.  I'd prefer to find a guitar with a genuine Floyd on it.  Earlier tonight, I downloaded a George Lynch model but it's not going to work out.   I'll try the guitar, you Syrus, linked.

    I'll also try the tubes from the data implants to see if they can work out.  Somehow, I think I'm going to have to make the cables from scratch.  Syrus, your links will prove to be helpful and I can't thank you enough for all the links you posted earlier, as well.

    Lights.  I am planning on adding more lights emitting different colors more toward the front of the set.   The shadow from the spot is actually something I want, just not so harsh.  I am going to avoid DOF (I know how to do it) for the time being as there may be more than one figure eventually. 

    I render in Iray. 

    Scott

    Edit:  I tried the guitar. The shaping of the neck is backward--it's more narrow at the body than at the headstock.  The frets are uneven on the neck and there are 25 of them.:)

    Band of Brothers2.jpg
    948 x 627 - 73K
    Post edited by wsgentry on
  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572

    I've gone through the linked tutorial on Blender for making bendable pipes.  I'm wondering how to create the pipe with more verticies?  It seems the settings used the tutorial and what comes up by default are different. 

    Scott

  • wsgentry said:

    I've gone through the linked tutorial on Blender for making bendable pipes.  I'm wondering how to create the pipe with more verticies?  It seems the settings used the tutorial and what comes up by default are different. 

    Scott

    once you go into edit mode (tab), select one of the end vertices by right clicking on it. Press E and move the mouse in the direction you wish to (E)xtend it. Left click when you're happy with the position. 

    if you wnat a vertice between two others, select them by holding shift and right clicking each vert, and then press the W key.  

    to move a vert, right click to select it, press G for (G)rab, move it to where you want it and then left click when you're happy. 

  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572
    bradrg said:
    wsgentry said:

    I've gone through the linked tutorial on Blender for making bendable pipes.  I'm wondering how to create the pipe with more verticies?  It seems the settings used the tutorial and what comes up by default are different. 

    Scott

    once you go into edit mode (tab), select one of the end vertices by right clicking on it. Press E and move the mouse in the direction you wish to (E)xtend it. Left click when you're happy with the position. 

    if you wnat a vertice between two others, select them by holding shift and right clicking each vert, and then press the W key.  

    to move a vert, right click to select it, press G for (G)rab, move it to where you want it and then left click when you're happy. 

    Thanks!  I was wondering about those things.  Tomorrow I’m  going to post a screen grab of the pedalboard after iit has been exported from Studio as an OBJ and imported into Blender.  My question will be about its position and how to correct it.  Thank you, again!

    Scott

  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572

    Here's the pedalboard in Blender.   See above for my questions.  Thanks in advance!

    Scott

    Pedalboard in Blender.JPG
    1365 x 1929 - 143K
  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983
    edited February 2018

    You couldn't wait untill tomorrow?wink

    I think step by step instructions are the best to explain this process, also for other interested readers. Here we go...

     

    1. Export the OBJ from DazStudio

    As I saied before... ehm wait maybe somwhere else allready, in the DS "OBJ Export Options" dialouge use the DAZ Studio (1 unit = 1 cm) preset (Scale: 100%).

    What you dont want to export needs to be hidden (see "Ignore Invisible Notes"). You get an OBJ that you can easily import again without remembering which export options you had used. Its all Daz scale and orientation with this.

    Export_OBJ-Options_IgnoreInvisibleNodes_1.png 382 x 507 - 61K

     

    2. Import this OBJ file into Blender

    Once you are in the import OBJ window you get these options in the bottom left.

    "Keep Vert Order" and "Poly Groups" had to be selected everytime once you opened up Blender. At least with the latest Blender versions.

    But for the orientation (in DS its called ''Axis Conversion") you also have to change the settings to Forward: -Z Forward and UP: Y Up.

    Again there is no standarisation how to call the axis for up/down, left/right and front/back XYZ.

    Edit: It's not just brining it to another 3D space its like brining it to another universe where the laws of physics are different.wink

    Your imported object should now have the right orientation within Blender. The default Daz scaling is quiet big compared to the default Blender scale but this dosnt matter.

     

    3. Export OBJ from Blender

    Something that I may have forgotten to explain before, because once set you never have to change that, are the "Export OBJ" options. Here I have created myself some preset.

    You see Forward and Up are setup the same way like in the import options - strange somehow I thought it must be inverted +Z Forward and -Y Up but no - these settings turn it around to the DS orientation again. Once you have changed all settings save yourself a preset with pressing the plus.

    Blender_ExportOBJ_1.png 481 x 562 - 91K

    1 Smooth Groups - this is refering to the specific edge weight for shading angle - it is sayed that DazStudio cant import those and the OBJ format dosnt support this - at least thats how I interpreted what Richard saied here: Help unwrapping a "simple box top" seems it requires some testing

    2 Write Normals - here they meant the 'Vertex Normals' which means the overall shading angle can be set in "Auto Smooth - Angle:"

    3 Write Materials - with this the .MTL file gets written to the same location as the .OBJ file - that saves the Material Groups (in DS they are called Surface Groups) and Texture references

    4 Polygroups - in Blender this is setup with the "Vertex Groups" and in DS its called the Face Groups, but be carefull with that - in Blender you define the groups with single vertices and a vertex can also be assignd to more that one group - in the OBJ file format the groups are defined by polygons and can only be assigned to one group - if you dont fix that within the Blender "Vertex Groups" your Face Groups in DS gets messed up.

    Not everything is needed to be saved into the OBJ file - it depends of weather you want to use this as a Morph Target (nothing except the vertex possitions are needed for that) or a new object that maybe should become a figure in DS.

    No warranty for correctness of the abouth information - just my rougth guess.

     

    [Edit_1] Further references and links:

    Creating Clothing Morphs With Blender and Daz Studio by SickleYield at Youtube

    Watch this video @ minute 3 the Export/Import gets explained.

     

    [Edit_2] off topic links:

    Blender_ExportOBJ_1.png
    481 x 562 - 91K
    Post edited by Syrus_Dante on
  • I'm wondering how to create the pipe with more verticies

    You could also select all vertices of the path with A and then "Subdivide" it to double the amount of vertices evenly spaced - also possible with the circle (dont know the shortcut but it can be found in the tools palet - left side ToolShelf).

  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983
    edited February 2018

    Edit:  I tried the guitar. The shaping of the neck is backward--it's more narrow at the body than at the headstock.  The frets are uneven on the neck and there are 25 of them.:)

    I just saw the preview images @ sCG and thought this is a very detailed model with accurate details and realistic proportions. Especialy the mechanical parts like the tremolo (vibrato) bridge are very well crafted.

    What a surprise I couldnt tell from the preview that it actualy its a "Floyd Rose" type of tremolo bridge - you could remove the lettering.

    LOL the frets you're right by looking at it in first place I couldnt tell what it is - now I see whats wrong with them - they seems to be a bit too squashed towards the pickup, and the Fender Stratocaster reference model usualy has 21 fret bars.

    Now I took the time and loaded this OBJ into DS and well - like expected it comes in with the wrong size compared to the DAZ figures. This isnt a big problem you can scale it down, but then you'll see there are some flickering faces on the body and this is where the serious issues beginn with this 3D object. Once I imoprted it into Blender I saw the geometry on the body is a big mess - not to speak of the UV-Layout that is very basic project from view - this is why the texture stretches at the sides.

    The conclusion is you can see why this is a freebie, because the geomerty is not the quality you would expect form a comercial product. Maybe you can life with that - I mean after all you just create an image and you can fix these problems in 'Postediting'.

    Otherwise maybe I try to fix and edit this guitar especialy the body geometry - then I send a request to the creator and he can update it on the sCG site.

    Imagine we could have a decent to some extend modular guitar product where you could morph or switch different body and headstock shapes and have some options for the bridge, tremolo ect.

    Post edited by Syrus_Dante on
  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572

    Hey, I'm not complaining at all.  You've been super helpful!  One trem that has been ignored largely is the Washburn Wonderbar.   I used to have a Washburn with a Wonderbar on it and it NEVER went out of tune--no springs, either.  It's just a shame that it was the best part of the guitar. ;)  On the black V in the picture I posted is a Kahler.   The Kahler NEVER stayed in tune so I just took off the bar and used it only for the fine tuners.   The trem on the Petrucci JP6 BFR goes out of tune but you have to beat hell out of it--it has locking tuners--but it's big advantage is piezo pickups so it can sound pretty close to an Ovation acoustic.  The only one that never goes out of tune is the Floyd on the Baretta.  It has been blocked so setup/changing strings is easier.  I haven't played for longer than 30-45 minutes at a time in the last nine years.  I discovered RC helicopters and they took over. 

    I'm not good enough at anything to fix issues with 3D models unless it can be done in Studio.  For example, the jacket in the render I shared doesn't fit right on the right breast of the model.  I used Fit Control to fix that (I'll post that render in the other thread).  I also added a few stage lights. 

    So, now back to cables. :)

    Scott

  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983
    edited February 2018

    Yeah, not everyone is good at fixing a guitar in real world eigther eg. Because Glue is Overrated.surprise

    Maybe the inital tought was: give it time to heal then remove the metal parts.

     

    In the meanwhile I was searching for more 3D guitars'n stuff.

    This one has various bending string morphs - well done. I ask myself if this can be done with the use of a D-Former set to weigthmap influence in Daz Studio.

     

    Have a look at this - it has cables - a bit low densety but the SubD modifier should help with that. The cables in their native form are not posable.

    I was searching a while for this in the Props section. In comparison to other guitar related products here this one looks way better than some more recent ones.

     

    The Cables

    Maybe the FLEXITHINGS by Mcasual can be used for the short cables.

    The main issue here for these long cables on the guitar will be to pose them so they would look like they are pluged into the guitar and the footswitch on both ends.

    A cheap trick solution I can think of would be to have one pluged into the guitar and one in the footswitch, while both ends dissapear somewher out of the scene view.

     

    You have to know there are two types of posing rigged figures bone chains. One is called 'forward' and the other is called 'inverse' - kinematics.

    (you may already know this - if not Wiki Link: Inverse Kinematics)

    The second method short IK needs to be setup in the figure content file by the PA and it isnt that easy to create this required IK-chain in the Figure Setup pane within DS. I once was close to figuring out how this could be done but didnt succed yet.

    Anyway the IK solver algorithm in DS seems to give up every now and then on its task if it gets too complicated to calculate and moves the start point away from its fixed possition.

    See some disscussion on that here: IK issue- need a hand fixing my hand fixing problem!

    There I have suggested two scripts, again from Mcasual - doing a bit promotion here.

    Would be interesting to see if they are able to solve the problem with a long bone chain to define the possition of both ends precisely, but im not shure if they would even work for somethink else than a genesis figure.

    Another very promising script to help posing the rigged cables:

    Post edited by Syrus_Dante on
  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572

    Thank you, Syrus!  I was able to import the pedalboard into Blender in the proper orientation.  I’m recovering from surgery and had to take a break from Studio and learning yesterday, but I plan on trying to make the cables later on today.  

    I did find a posesble cable on the other site in Poser format but it does not appear in Studio (it’s a freebie).  I spent about an hour on it earlier but had to stop because of pain. So, later I’ll work on the original idea in Blender.   Here’s my pedalboard just because! 

    Scott

     

    C7C618F9-546C-4EBA-BD39-620E1ED3366D.jpeg
    4032 x 3024 - 3M
  • Take your time and dont haste. I wish you best recovery.

    That pedal board setup looks pretty complete. You're driving two amps with that?

  • When you get around to the guitar straps, Renderosity's FreeStuff section has a dandy poseable "Guitar Cheat Strap", so called because it's a half-strap that you can parent to the horn or heel of a guitar and wrap partway around the player's body. A heck of a lot easier than posing and/or morphing one full-length strap...and besides, who ever looks at the back of a guitarist anyway?

  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572

    Take your time and dont haste. I wish you best recovery.

    That pedal board setup looks pretty complete. You're driving two amps with that?

    Thanks again, Syrus!  

    Yep, two amps.  A Mesa Boogie Mark IV and a Peavey 5150.  All effects can be used by the Mark IV, but only inline effects can be used on the 5150 because I don’t have a loop splitter. I don’t use my JCM 800 anymore. The 5150 gets a great vintage Marshall sound so there’s not much, if anything lost there.  The Mark IV is for more modern, heavier tone. 

    Scott

  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572
    Blind Owl said:

    When you get around to the guitar straps, Renderosity's FreeStuff section has a dandy poseable "Guitar Cheat Strap", so called because it's a half-strap that you can parent to the horn or heel of a guitar and wrap partway around the player's body. A heck of a lot easier than posing and/or morphing one full-length strap...and besides, who ever looks at the back of a guitarist anyway?

    Thanks Blind Owl!

    That’s the strap I’m using!  I used both parts as I put a wireless transmitter on the back half!

    Scott

  • wsgentrywsgentry Posts: 572

    Here is where I am with the cables.   I need to figure out how to flip the cable (tube).  Stuff doesn't work in Blender like it does in Studio.  angry

    BTW, since I took the picture of my physical pedalboard,  I've actually cleaned it--before I had surgery.  Yeah, it got messy in my music area.  wink

    Scott

    Pedalboard in Blender 2.JPG
    2199 x 1513 - 165K
  • BradCarstenBradCarsten Posts: 834
    edited February 2018
    wsgentry said:

    Here is where I am with the cables.   I need to figure out how to flip the cable (tube).  Stuff doesn't work in Blender like it does in Studio.  angry

    BTW, since I took the picture of my physical pedalboard,  I've actually cleaned it--before I had surgery.  Yeah, it got messy in my music area.  wink

    Scott

    it is different, but also far more powerful

    Here are some useful shortcuts that may help:

    a- select (a)ll verts (in edit mode) objects in object mode

    b- box select verts (in edit mode) objects in object mode

    c- paint select verts in edit mode, objects in object mode.

    g- (g)rab - to move an object

    r- (r)otate

    rx - rotate around x axis,

    ry - rotate around y axis

    rz- You guessed it. 

    rx90- rotate around x 90 degrees 

    rx-64 rotate around x -64 degrees etc

    . - when you rotate, use the fullstop key to pivot your object around 3d cursor (that reticle that is placed whenever you left click)

    ctrl+. - pivot around the items pivot point. 

    1- front view 

    3- right side view

    7- top view.

    5- perspective mode on/off

    0- rotate the viewport around the selected object. (middle mouse button to rotate)

     

    to set the 3d cursor, tab into edit mode and select shift + s- choose an option. You can select 2 verts for example, shift -s > cursor to selected, this will place the 3d cursor in the middle of those two vertices. With that done you can rotate the object around your newly placed 3d cursor. it's extremely powerful.

    You can for example tab into edit mode on the pedal, and select a vert where you want the cable to join. snap the 3d cursor to that. Tab back into object mode, select the cable, tab into edit mode- select the edge of the cable snap object to 3d cursor (using Shift S again) - and your cable will snap perfectly onto the back of the pedal

    Post edited by BradCarsten on
Sign In or Register to comment.