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Interactive License?

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  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 156
    edited November 2017
    mikek said:
    nmargie_d65db43582 said:

    Also why do some items even have a license option? Not name products but some examples include: Toon shaders and lights; I did not know you could take these outside daz studio which makes gettting a license for them pointless

    Better not complain to much about things which don't work well. Shader packages can come with textures and maybe there will be some who are of use for some developers even if they don't port well. Daz doesn't seem to understand the developer side so its better they let us decide what we can use then them removing to much and hitting usefull items.

    For Monique 8 they already don't offer a interactive license for starter or pro bundle. If you want the Monique 8 Pro bundle for a game its now 440 license costs alone. It's already getting worse.

    I just seen that. Also seen 50 license fee for hair, WTF? Since the license is still there for Victoria pro bundle maybe Monique page is an error

    Edit for typos damn auto correct 

     

    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • mikekmikek Posts: 192
    edited November 2017

     

    nmargie_d65db43582 said:

    Sinr the love cense is still there for Victoria pro bundle maybe Monique page is an error

    My first guess was someone forgot to add it but they missed two items while the base one was added correctly. It's possible but less likely they miss two. 440 would also fit to the other "we don't want small indie developer" prices they have now.

    Post edited by mikek on
  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,222
    edited November 2017
    Dream Cutter said:
    Padone said:

    @Dream Cutter

    The interactive license is for games. If you only do renderings or animations you don't need it. And alembic does not resolve this issue. So, as I already said, and this is not hipotetical, it is a fact.

    "EDIT: Put it another way, if I am a customer and I purchase the interactive license for a HD Addon, then I have no way to use it and I have no way to return it back. This does not seem a customer friendly sales policy to me."

    Heres an idea... only buy the interactive upgrade for the product AFTER you tested the product's sutibility for your choice of game engine. No need to have the intersctive license to do your own R&D Q&A.  If it does not work out - return the produt within a month for a refund. If it does work out, purchase the interactive license upgrade when your game's pre-release orders start rolling in. After all it the interactive use license not the software product we are discussing right.  If you have a developmet team opperativly working on the scene, your corporation needs to be the license holder, otherise each independant developer will need thier own DAZ library to work from.  

    Hint, the Alembic cache holds each frames full geometry including morph. From there yu could rig transfer or oherwise. There is always away to seal the pipeline segments if think out of the box.

     

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,922

    Also out of curiosity I checked the Platinum Club products and they no longer list interactive licenses as an option.

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 156
    mikek said:

     

    nmargie_d65db43582 said:

    Sinr the love cense is still there for Victoria pro bundle maybe Monique page is an error

    My first guess was someone forgot to add it but they missed two items while the base one was added correctly. It's possible but less likely they miss two. 440 would also fit to the other "we don't want small indie developer" prices they have now.

    Wonder if they take it away if a bundle. I know Victory pro is on sale for around 40 and the licnese was still there if you paid around 33 (with discounts and PC+). With Monique pro being less than 30 and starter less than 20 Daz does not include the license with them

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 156
    nonesuch00 said:

    Also out of curiosity I checked the Platinum Club products and they no longer list interactive licenses as an option.

    I am still seeing it for PC+ items, 

    Note to Admins: Someone needs to tell daz sales they need to start puting out answers to how some of these licenses work.

    Platnum club licenses issues like how long is it good for what abotu products that go on adn off the list, do you lose your license if you are no longer a PC+ member

    If I buy a pro bundle and pay 50 license fee does that cover all items in the bundle or jsut the core character

    These questions are coming form someone who owns the indie license, and I am confussed hate to see what the people who do not own the lincese have to go through  

     

  • jillval8jillval8 Posts: 50
    edited November 2017
    nmargie_d65db43582 said:
    nonesuch00 said:

    Also out of curiosity I checked the Platinum Club products and they no longer list interactive licenses as an option.

    I am still seeing it for PC+ items, 

    Note to Admins: Someone needs to tell daz sales they need to start puting out answers to how some of these licenses work.

    Platnum club licenses issues like how long is it good for what abotu products that go on adn off the list, do you lose your license if you are no longer a PC+ member

    If I buy a pro bundle and pay 50 license fee does that cover all items in the bundle or jsut the core character

    These questions are coming form someone who owns the indie license, and I am confussed hate to see what the people who do not own the lincese have to go through  

     

    I wouldn't worry, as someone who don't have indie license, even the bundles are not even worth the money and not worth the investment, without license. Like said before the only people who are going to consider it are the people who going to buy a select few of things and pretty much walk of into the sunset, while the rest of else who need catalog are like shaking our heads like "nope". If I had that type of money to buy bundles/models that only which on contains 1 or 2 things in it at 50 to 100 dollars a pop, I would just hire a artist. That's if I had the capital of coarse. :(

    Post edited by jillval8 on
  • pruggipruggi Posts: 151

    This has probably been answered somewhere amongst all these different license threads, but I wasn't quite sure:

    -Is it possible to use a character in a game engine to test things out, without buying the license? For example, if I imported the character into Unity and made a video of it running around on youtube (just a hypothetical) - is that possible without first buying the license? Then, when I've decided I actually want to use it closer to production - then buy the license?

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 10,999
    pruggi said:

    This has probably been answered somewhere amongst all these different license threads, but I wasn't quite sure:

    -Is it possible to use a character in a game engine to test things out, without buying the license? For example, if I imported the character into Unity and made a video of it running around on youtube (just a hypothetical) - is that possible without first buying the license? Then, when I've decided I actually want to use it closer to production - then buy the license?

    You need the licence to _distribute_ the mesh. So you can start your development without purchasing the license first (as long as you don't need to upload your mesh somewhere to do the development work).

  • pruggipruggi Posts: 151

    Thanks Leana, that's what I thought, but wasn't totally sure, particularly because I wanted to make a youtube clip from within the game engine.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 10,999
    pruggi said:

    Thanks Leana, that's what I thought, but wasn't totally sure, particularly because I wanted to make a youtube clip from within the game engine.

    The clip is still a standard video, right? So it doesn't matter if you created it with DS, another 3D program or a game engine.

  • pruggipruggi Posts: 151
    Leana said:
    pruggi said:

    Thanks Leana, that's what I thought, but wasn't totally sure, particularly because I wanted to make a youtube clip from within the game engine.

    The clip is still a standard video, right? So it doesn't matter if you created it with DS, another 3D program or a game engine.

    Right, that makes sense, thanks :)

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,735

    So, I'm still confused about all this.... I'm going to come up with a random example. Someone has an Oculis headset on, they go into a scene that may be an altered version of, let's  say a Stonemason scene, the user walks towards a dog and pets it with a touch control, the dog barks and runs away, the user still has no access to the 3D models or the textures. They can't pull anything out of the scene to use any models in any way, it is purely experiential within the VR experience. Would an interactive license be needed for that?  I don't even understand how a user would have access to assets, models, textures within a game.  They are just using a game controller, they can't export assets to use themselves, as far as I can see. Sorry, so confused about this....

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513

    If the models are included in the game, an interactive license is needed. If only renders of the models are included, it isn't needed.

    You can extract geometry out of games that include models.

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,735
    agent unawares said:

    If the models are included in the game, an interactive license is needed. If only renders of the models are included, it isn't needed.

    You can extract geometry out of games that include models.

    I'm sure I sound like a total idiot but I still don't really get it it. How could a user extract geometry through their VR headset or touch controls? I don't even know how a VR experienced is saved yet so these are all prelimany questions. So basically you're saying a hacker could get into the saved VR experience that they downloaded from the Oculis store and open it in a way that would allow them to extract and steal assets? This would definitely have to be a pro hacker or other game/VR developer because surely the end user would not know how to do this. Am I right? Sorry for my confusion about all this... Just thought it would be better to understand all the details rather than embark on something that could be prohibitively expensive.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    Wonderland said:
    agent unawares said:

    If the models are included in the game, an interactive license is needed. If only renders of the models are included, it isn't needed.

    You can extract geometry out of games that include models.

    I'm sure I sound like a total idiot but I still don't really get it it. How could a user extract geometry through their VR headset or touch controls?

    They wouldn't, they would extract it from the VR files.

    Wonderland said:

    I don't even know how a VR experienced is saved yet so these are all prelimany questions.

    That really depends what kind of VR experience it is. It sounds like you do want to do the kind that requires the model files, though.

    Wonderland said:

    So basically you're saying a hacker could get into the saved VR experience that they downloaded from the Oculis store and open it in a way that would allow them to extract and steal assets? This would definitely have to be a pro hacker or other game/VR developer because surely the end user would not know how to do this.

    Yes, someone could extract geometry if it is part of the file. They don't have to be a pro hacker. This is one of the big reasons you have to be careful of free files sites, a lot of people take models from games and upload them without saying where they came from.

    The reason that it's difficult to say whether you require a license for VR is you can render fully VR videos that don't require any meshes, but you can also create files that contain meshes and animations so the end results get rendered on the user's computer, the first wouldn't require any interactive license but the second would.

  • Phoenix1966Phoenix1966 Posts: 1,562
    Wonderland said:
    agent unawares said:

    If the models are included in the game, an interactive license is needed. If only renders of the models are included, it isn't needed.

    You can extract geometry out of games that include models.

    I'm sure I sound like a total idiot but I still don't really get it it. How could a user extract geometry through their VR headset or touch controls? I don't even know how a VR experienced is saved yet so these are all prelimany questions. So basically you're saying a hacker could get into the saved VR experience that they downloaded from the Oculis store and open it in a way that would allow them to extract and steal assets? This would definitely have to be a pro hacker or other game/VR developer because surely the end user would not know how to do this. Am I right? Sorry for my confusion about all this... Just thought it would be better to understand all the details rather than embark on something that could be prohibitively expensive.

    Skim through this Goggle search and see how common ripping meshes from games is.

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,735
    agent unawares said:
    Wonderland said:
    agent unawares said:

    If the models are included in the game, an interactive license is needed. If only renders of the models are included, it isn't needed.

    You can extract geometry out of games that include models.

    I'm sure I sound like a total idiot but I still don't really get it it. How could a user extract geometry through their VR headset or touch controls?

    They wouldn't, they would extract it from the VR files.

    Wonderland said:

    I don't even know how a VR experienced is saved yet so these are all prelimany questions.

    That really depends what kind of VR experience it is. It sounds like you do want to do the kind that requires the model files, though.

    Wonderland said:

    So basically you're saying a hacker could get into the saved VR experience that they downloaded from the Oculis store and open it in a way that would allow them to extract and steal assets? This would definitely have to be a pro hacker or other game/VR developer because surely the end user would not know how to do this.

    Yes, someone could extract geometry if it is part of the file. They don't have to be a pro hacker. This is one of the big reasons you have to be careful of free files sites, a lot of people take models from games and upload them without saying where they came from.

    The reason that it's difficult to say whether you require a license for VR is you can render fully VR videos that don't require any meshes, but you can also create files that contain meshes and animations so the end results get rendered on the user's computer, the first wouldn't require any interactive license but the second would.

    OK thanks, I had no idea it was that easy to hack into. But I'm assuming they would get charged with copyright infringement if they actually stole anything. Seems like the rendered version is the way to go unless I have investors willing to pay for all the licenses. 

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,922
    edited December 2017

    Occulus titles are mostly run by 3D game engines so that would be including meshes & you would need interactive licenses. You need a 2D game made using 2D sprites (think Moho over at Smith Micro) so you'd need to make 2D sprites using DAZ 3D Store assets and create your game using those 2D assets you made your DAZ models and then you don't need that interactive license.

    I'm also pretty surprised that people waste time stripping meshes from games - the big game engine companies take steps to encrypt the game code and game model data to make it more difficult to very difficult to strip thoe models from the game; so even if they couldn't strip the model directly out of the game file once they run the they could probably dump memory from a running game so the contents would be decrypted and then save that to disk in a file. It's a waste of time on their part financially though, it'sa just a ponsai scheme by the pirate places to attract the 'cool rulebreaker types' and it's those pirate sites that are the only ones to profit off of that stolen data. The folk the download it afterwards, pfft, time & money wasted.  

    When one looks at free assets at places like Blendswap and MakeHuman and elsewhere that are free to use commercially it is dorky to waste one's time stealing assets rather than productively work on creating a game or some sort app or modeling for that matter.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • mikekmikek Posts: 192

     

    nonesuch00 said:

    I'm also pretty surprised that people waste time stripping meshes from games - the big game engine companies take steps to encrypt the game code and game model data to make it more difficult to very difficult to strip thoe models from the game; so even if they couldn't strip the model directly out of the game file once they run the they could probably dump memory from a running game so the contents would be decrypted and then save that to disk in a file. It's a waste of time on their part financially though, it'sa just a ponsai scheme by the pirate places to attract the 'cool rulebreaker types' and it's those pirate sites that are the only ones to profit off of that stolen data. The folk the download it afterwards, pfft, time & money wasted.  

    When one looks at free assets at places like Blendswap and MakeHuman and elsewhere that are free to use commercially it is dorky to waste one's time stealing assets rather than productively work on creating a game or some sort app or modeling for that matter.

    The problem with Blendswap or MakeHuman is it doesn't give them the unique well known game character but just a no name morph mix. It's like some love to disguise as Batman, Harley Quinn and so on to visit events as those characters others like to play with their 3D models. If big game companies would offer their models against payment like Daz does no one would care about ripping content as its just less work to buy it and buying doesn't give one half broken content like ripping does.

  • dmputadmputa Posts: 36

    Hello, I have not read the whole post because it is very long, could someone solve this doubt?

    If you buy a Standard License, can you then extend it to an Interactive License? This is important because in the contract it says that the Interactive License can not be refunded, so before buying the Interactive License you should buy the Standard License to test it.

    And another question, when you buy an Interactive License, do they charge you the price of the Interactive License + Standard License or just the price of the Interactive License?

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 156
    edited December 2017
    dmputa said:

    Hello, I have not read the whole post because it is very long, could someone solve this doubt?

    If you buy a Standard License, can you then extend it to an Interactive License? This is important because in the contract it says that the Interactive License can not be refunded, so before buying the Interactive License you should buy the Standard License to test it.

    And another question, when you buy an Interactive License, do they charge you the price of the Interactive License + Standard License or just the price of the Interactive License?

    There is no standard license price. Standard license is what is included if you do not buy the interactive license. For example:

                You see a character on the store you want to buy. The price is 30 for the character and the interactive license is an additional 50. If you just buy the character you have the standard license.

    Now as for upgrading the standard to interactive

          That character from the past example is completely refundable but as you point out the interactive licenses are not. So let us say you want to buy that character and use her (model) in a game. What you should do is buy the character now, test it in you game and make sure everything works. If it doesn't simply get a refund, on the other hand if it works all you do is go back to the product page and you will be given the option of buying the interactive license

     

     

    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • hexadecimalentertainmenthexadecimalentertainment Posts: 22

    Someone did hte test on the store?

    Buy a license for a pro bundle and notice if it is good for the entire bundle or it is just a error that they still havent fix after several months....

     

     

  • d_a_stapleton_5fe23272d7d_a_stapleton_5fe23272d7 Posts: 0

    I am so gutted. I've been working on a project for a while and just decided to buy the contend I needed along with indie licence to be able to sell it. $500 + content is within my budget, but with all of the hairstyles + clothes I'm using, it just isn't worth it. Gutted. crying

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 10,999
    d_a_stapleton_5fe23272d7 said:

    I am so gutted. I've been working on a project for a while and just decided to buy the contend I needed along with indie licence to be able to sell it. $500 + content is within my budget, but with all of the hairstyles + clothes I'm using, it just isn't worth it. Gutted. crying

    Try contacting Daz, they might be willing to work out something with you.

  • diogenese19348diogenese19348 Posts: 926

    Not a major gripe by any means, but DAZ seems to be putting 3D license on options for things that can't be used for outside content.  Like DAZ scripts or instructional videos for example.  One from today:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-master-hair-simulation-presets-for-dforce-cloth-engine

    Exactly how is one supposed to use that outside of DAZ?  So why the 3D license option?

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 156
    diogenese19348 said:

    Not a major gripe by any means, but DAZ seems to be putting 3D license on options for things that can't be used for outside content.  Like DAZ scripts or instructional videos for example.  One from today:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-master-hair-simulation-presets-for-dforce-cloth-engine

    Exactly how is one supposed to use that outside of DAZ?  So why the 3D license option?

    I wonder if their system atuomatically set prices for items base on the non sale cost. Would explain why pro bundles havea 50 fee while each individual item in the bundle could cost well over half of that if bought seperatley.

     

    There system clearly has some bugs 

  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 1,502
    diogenese19348 said:

    Not a major gripe by any means, but DAZ seems to be putting 3D license on options for things that can't be used for outside content.  Like DAZ scripts or instructional videos for example.  One from today:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-master-hair-simulation-presets-for-dforce-cloth-engine

    Exactly how is one supposed to use that outside of DAZ?  So why the 3D license option?

    Maybe in a Edward Scissorhands game - for the person running away lol.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,922
    edited December 2017
    diogenese19348 said:

    Not a major gripe by any means, but DAZ seems to be putting 3D license on options for things that can't be used for outside content.  Like DAZ scripts or instructional videos for example.  One from today:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-master-hair-simulation-presets-for-dforce-cloth-engine

    Exactly how is one supposed to use that outside of DAZ?  So why the 3D license option?

    Well it seems but is very unlikely they are licensing the code & algorithm to both the PA's scripts and the DAZ 3D SW running the script when they license it in that manner when a product is only presets & code and no models. I am pretty sure what they mean to do is license the resulting hair draped by these dForce engine & these presets that the buyer of this product already owns & has licensed.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • diogenese19348diogenese19348 Posts: 926
    nonesuch00 said:
    diogenese19348 said:

    Not a major gripe by any means, but DAZ seems to be putting 3D license on options for things that can't be used for outside content.  Like DAZ scripts or instructional videos for example.  One from today:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-master-hair-simulation-presets-for-dforce-cloth-engine

    Exactly how is one supposed to use that outside of DAZ?  So why the 3D license option?

    Well it seems but is very unlikely they are licensing the code & algorithm to both the PA's scripts and the DAZ 3D SW running the script when they license it in that manner when a product is only presets & code and no models. I am pretty sure what they mean to do is license the resulting hair draped by these dForce engine & these presets that the buyer of this product already owns & has licensed.

    Doesn't explain this one though.  There is no 3D content in it. It's all Photoshop Layers.  Interactive license of $50  https://www.daz3d.com/gnbd-explosion-project-4k-psd-layers

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