Interactive License?

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  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 12,647

    Not a major gripe by any means, but DAZ seems to be putting 3D license on options for things that can't be used for outside content.  Like DAZ scripts or instructional videos for example.  One from today:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-master-hair-simulation-presets-for-dforce-cloth-engine

    Exactly how is one supposed to use that outside of DAZ?  So why the 3D license option?

    Well it seems but is very unlikely they are licensing the code & algorithm to both the PA's scripts and the DAZ 3D SW running the script when they license it in that manner when a product is only presets & code and no models. I am pretty sure what they mean to do is license the resulting hair draped by these dForce engine & these presets that the buyer of this product already owns & has licensed.

    Doesn't explain this one though.  There is no 3D content in it. It's all Photoshop Layers.  Interactive license of $50  https://www.daz3d.com/gnbd-explosion-project-4k-psd-layers

    Well they are saying you can use the included psd layers in an interactive presentative but not resale those layers for others to use in such presentations or 2D renderings. 

  • ChakradudeChakradude Posts: 184
    jillval8 said:

    So instead of paying 500$ to be able to use daz mesh into my game i have to pay 35$ each?

     

    Are you kidding me?  so i just invested 1K over the last month for nothing?

     

    Are you kidding!!!!??!!!!!

     

    There was an information about this in the forum from DAZ previously and therefore I bought the game developer indie license last week at a discount for $75. When I see now that each DAZ Original character is $50 for the interactive license then I'm very happy that I purchased the indie license beforehand.

    Does not excuse anything.

     

    Yes I agree the additional interactive license pricing is also way above of what I expected. I was thinking maybe 25% additional to the original price or similar. Also they could have announced it before and have given the users enough time to decide.

    +12 on this. I am so toatally screwed by this. I have been building a library for 10 years and just getting close to needing a licence. How can this possibly be more economical for long time daz devoties? I would have found a way to pony up the money for a grandfathered licence I could actually use! I am talking here about the daz original gaming licene.

    Just curious if there is an ongoing dialog about interactive licences with still so many unanswered questions? Was there ever any clarification offered by DAZ? I do not see anything from them and this dialog just stopped in December...

  • ChakradudeChakradude Posts: 184

    did daz ever offer the original blanket interactive licence again after they took it away last year? has there ever been an official comment from DAZ in the forums on this topic? I have done a search but I don't see much. I would like to read anything that has been clearly stated.

  • If you bought content with the intent of buying a Game Developer License you might try opening a Sales Support ticket.

    I'm not sure what general questions remain open.

  • ChakradudeChakradude Posts: 184

    For example charging an interactive licence for poses for a particular character? how can you extract a pose from a game? what if I modify the pose using a pose randomizer script? now I must pay for an interactive licence for the script? dont get me wrong, these are fine and excellent products but  why do they need interactive licences? If I change a pose I make it my own don't I? or are you saying if you build a pose based on another pose it still needs to be licenced interactively if you use it in a game? 

    I am sure someone will be quick to point out that I don't have to buy a licence if I don't think I need it but to my mind that is a very slipshod way of handling things. I do hate to say it but it seems like taking advantage of new developers who might just start buying every licence they see just to be safe.

    I am not Just trying to be inflamitory, I would like some clear information that I thought would have and certainly should have come out by now.

  • It's not whether it can be extracted, it's that it is being used that justifies the license. Both the pose and the script would be saving you development time.

  • ChakradudeChakradude Posts: 184

    Thanks for your response Richard.

    So is this the official angle on things? 

    I just noticed a nice sale on animations that look very good. many of them do not have interactive licence buttons. So this is the choice of individual PA's whether or not they want to charge for that licence? What if I use those animations in a game title and publish it next month. Then 6 months from now they deside to start charging for an interactive licence, am I forced then to retroactively pay for a licence? 

    Or are you saying if there is no interactive licence available then we must assume that produce is stricly not usable in a game? the ones I am thinking of look exactly designed for games!!

    Please dont get me wrong, I very much believe artist should get paid for their work but I think a little more clear line should be drawn. You say you dont see many more questions that need answering but where have they been answered?

     

    Again, I hope you see I am looking for clairity here, not trying to muddy the waters.

     

    Regarding Daz original content, I have been collecting since 2003. I was planning to get the Daz  blanket interactive licence the next time it went on sale. Well it never did. ( oh boo hoo)My bad and yes I have to own that I waited to long. 

    So you are right I will have to make a ticket and see what they have to say.

  • ChakradudeChakradude Posts: 184

    So for example I just checked and Kalea 7 Pro Bundle has an optional interactive licence: so if I go ahead and buy it does that apply to everything in the bundle? I never saw a difinitive answer to this question.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 8,603
     

    Or are you saying if there is no interactive licence available then we must assume that produce is stricly not usable in a game? the ones I am thinking of look exactly designed for games!!

    No assuming involved. Interactive license = game use and vice versa

    It's a safe bet that everything on this site was designed for use in/with Daz Studio. Game use would be an afterthought, hence the licensing since users are going to use it anyway..

  • Or are you saying if there is no interactive licence available then we must assume that produce is stricly not usable in a game?

    That is my understanding, yes. Sorry.

    So for example I just checked and Kalea 7 Pro Bundle has an optional interactive licence: so if I go ahead and buy it does that apply to everything in the bundle? I never saw a difinitive answer to this question.

    It doesn't say othrwise, that I can see, so unless I'm missing something.... I will ask, as that may not be the intent.

  • ChakradudeChakradude Posts: 184
    Or are you saying if there is no interactive licence available then we must assume that produce is stricly not usable in a game?

    That is my understanding, yes. Sorry.

    So for example I just checked and Kalea 7 Pro Bundle has an optional interactive licence: so if I go ahead and buy it does that apply to everything in the bundle? I never saw a difinitive answer to this question.

    It doesn't say othrwise, that I can see, so unless I'm missing something.... I will ask, as that may not be the intent.

    thanks Richard

  • Yes, the bundle license does apply to all included items.

  • ChakradudeChakradude Posts: 184

    Tanks man

  • MCphylyss_2MCphylyss_2 Posts: 42
    edited May 2018

    Verry helpfull thread!

    So let's say I bought a Victoria 6 pro bundle, I can use every product in the bundle by just paying a single 50$ interactive license for the pack? because I just saw Genesis 2 starter essential interactive license is 100$, so I assume I have to pay that license too, and that would be all I have to pay? 150$ licenses to use Stephanie 6?

    Last question: Can I use any product "as is"? I've seen several licenses type on Turbosquid for example, that "force" you to modify the model before to use it in a project...

    Thanks again.

    PS: For those who think Daz models are not designed for real-time rendering, I just posted a video which tries to answer that question. It's a home made engine and for my purpose, Daz seems to be the ultimate solution. For Unity/Unreal users, I just don't know how hard can it be to properly convert Daz assets.

    Post edited by MCphylyss_2 on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,996

    Verry helpfull thread!

    So let's say I bought a Victoria 6 pro bundle, I can use every product in the bundle by just paying a single 50$ interactive license for the pack? because I just saw Genesis 2 starter essential interactive license is 100$, so I assume I have to pay that license too, and that would be all I have to pay? 150$ licenses to use Stephanie 6?

    No Stephanie 6 would need a license as well, so one for Genesis 2 starter bundle, one for Victoria 6 and one for Stephanie 6

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 12,647
    edited May 2018

    Thanks for your response Richard.

    So is this the official angle on things? 

    I just noticed a nice sale on animations that look very good. many of them do not have interactive licence buttons. So this is the choice of individual PA's whether or not they want to charge for that licence? What if I use those animations in a game title and publish it next month. Then 6 months from now they deside to start charging for an interactive licence, am I forced then to retroactively pay for a licence? 

    Or are you saying if there is no interactive licence available then we must assume that produce is stricly not usable in a game? the ones I am thinking of look exactly designed for games!!

    Please dont get me wrong, I very much believe artist should get paid for their work but I think a little more clear line should be drawn. You say you dont see many more questions that need answering but where have they been answered?

     

    Again, I hope you see I am looking for clairity here, not trying to muddy the waters.

     

    Regarding Daz original content, I have been collecting since 2003. I was planning to get the Daz  blanket interactive licence the next time it went on sale. Well it never did. ( oh boo hoo)My bad and yes I have to own that I waited to long. 

    So you are right I will have to make a ticket and see what they have to say.

    LOL, what will save you more development time is to not spend a lot of time buying poses and animations from the DAZ 3D store as the chances the 5 minutes they'd save you is more than wasted by the hours of getting that stuff exported out of DAZ Studio correctly and animating it in DAZ Studio? Forget it.

    Some of the interactive content license use cases are dependent to make a sale to the hobbyist on hobbyist naivity as to what they the hobbyist needs and genuinely saves time vs simply being similar to an ideal the hobbyist has had and taking advantage of that similarity to make a sale to the hobbyist but actually waste the hobbyist time and money.

    If you are developing interactive content using Unity then from now til May 11 they are having a sale on a product that helps interactive content developers animate models in Unity 3D. The product they refer to is called UMotion Pro and is featured in the 2nd from most recent Unity Comminity Blog artivle about their May sale.

    What is an animation? A series of poses is all, so given that one needs to make hundleds of poses to make a really smooth correct animation buying one pose isn't going to save you much time and will use more time than saved via your search for it, payment for it (you worked hours to make that money), and then export of it and adaption to the animation software you are using that pose in. So then, you've wasted time & money spending on poses in the DAZ Store if your intent is to use with an interactive license. That's clear. However with DAZ 3D models if you have an interactive license then that clearly saves you time and moeny. Also if you buy a Pro Bundle that comes with poses when they are part of that interactive license you bought so it's 50 - 50 whether they'll actually save you time exporting them to Unity to use with Unity's animation software and do you actually need poses like those in your animation? Just because you have something doesn't mean you should use it. Too much clutter in a game is not good.

    Bottom line - for interactive content development do the animation yourself or buy animation packages in the Unity (or UE4) asset store for biggest time savings and results like you wanted.

    That said, I have plenty of DAZ 3D pose packages but I only use them in DAZ Studio and have them because they come bundled in a Pro bundle or are PC+ products that were new and so I buy them to get a discount on another new DAZ product that isn't PC+. 

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • I work for a game company, and we've canceled all plans to use DAZ and deleted our DAZ library, primarily because of this clause which seems to say that if we create custom clothes, animations or other items to use with DAZ models, then DAZ has a legal right to instantly ask us to stop using DAZ content and models. I can tell you that the owner is pissed. DAZ is no longer a part of our studio.

    Three Dimensional Works. DAZ wishes to encourage the expansion of the catalog of Content available to its users. Accordingly, User may access, use, copy, and modify the Content to create one or more derived or additional three-dimensional works provided that: 

    • any such derived or additional three-dimensional works are designed to require or encourage the use of CRT Content available through the online DAZ store either by (i) requiring the use of such CRT Content to function, or (ii) allowing only limited function when not used in conjunction with CRT Content from the online DAZ store; and
    • upon receipt of a written request from DAZ, User immediately ceases any and all distribution of the art that User has created from the CRT Content, if DAZ has determined, in its sole discretion, that (i) such art is substantially similar to or is a clone of existing Content; or (ii) such derived or additional work fails to require the use of Content available through the online DAZ store.

     

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 59,269
    edited July 2018

    I work for a game company, and we've canceled all plans to use DAZ and deleted our DAZ library, primarily because of this clause which seems to say that if we create custom clothes, animations or other items to use with DAZ models, then DAZ has a legal right to instantly ask us to stop using DAZ content and models. I can tell you that the owner is pissed. DAZ is no longer a part of our studio.

    Three Dimensional Works. DAZ wishes to encourage the expansion of the catalog of Content available to its users. Accordingly, User may access, use, copy, and modify the Content to create one or more derived or additional three-dimensional works provided that: 

    • any such derived or additional three-dimensional works are designed to require or encourage the use of CRT Content available through the online DAZ store either by (i) requiring the use of such CRT Content to function, or (ii) allowing only limited function when not used in conjunction with CRT Content from the online DAZ store; and
    • upon receipt of a written request from DAZ, User immediately ceases any and all distribution of the art that User has created from the CRT Content, if DAZ has determined, in its sole discretion, that (i) such art is substantially similar to or is a clone of existing Content; or (ii) such derived or additional work fails to require the use of Content available through the online DAZ store.

    That's for content being sold or given away - clothes, hair, character morphs etc., not for use in a game. It's the basis for the add-on content market. If you had already invested time and effort in this it would have been best to open a support ticket seeking clarfication

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • That's for content being sold or given away - clothes, hair, character morphs etc., not for use in a game. It's the basis for the add-on content market. If you had already invested time and effort in this it would have been best to open a support ticket seeking clarfication

     

    Just to make sure I understand it The above is there in a case where an artist builds upon another artist work to release a product to other artist. In such a case they need to require any future artist own the original product they built upon For example; if an artist: buys the G8F body morphs Uses the morphs to create a character Modifies that new character into one they call Lisa In order to release Lisa to other artist her creator will need require any users own the G8F body morph Or a better example I own Victoria 8. If I would use her as a base for a new character. I would require any future artist that wanted to use that base to own Victoria 8 as well.
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,996

    That's for content being sold or given away - clothes, hair, character morphs etc., not for use in a game. It's the basis for the add-on content market. If you had already invested time and effort in this it would have been best to open a support ticket seeking clarfication

     

    Just to make sure I understand it The above is there in a case where an artist builds upon another artist work to release a product to other artist. In such a case they need to require any future artist own the original product they built upon For example; if an artist: buys the G8F body morphs Uses the morphs to create a character Modifies that new character into one they call Lisa In order to release Lisa to other artist her creator will need require any users own the G8F body morph Or a better example I own Victoria 8. If I would use her as a base for a new character. I would require any future artist that wanted to use that base to own Victoria 8 as well.

    You would need to release your product in a format that required the other artist to own the products used. in other words a format that wouldn't work if the products were not availalbe on the users computer.

  • That's for content being sold or given away - clothes, hair, character morphs etc., not for use in a game. It's the basis for the add-on content market. If you had already invested time and effort in this it would have been best to open a support ticket seeking clarfication

     

    Just to make sure I understand it The above is there in a case where an artist builds upon another artist work to release a product to other artist. In such a case they need to require any future artist own the original product they built upon For example; if an artist: buys the G8F body morphs Uses the morphs to create a character Modifies that new character into one they call Lisa In order to release Lisa to other artist her creator will need require any users own the G8F body morph Or a better example I own Victoria 8. If I would use her as a base for a new character. I would require any future artist that wanted to use that base to own Victoria 8 as well.

    Right, you'd save a shaping prset thats et the morphs in that case, you can't (and it would be a bad idea to) take the exported OBJ of the morphed figure, further modify it, and load as a custom morph. What you can do is export as OBJ, modify, then import through Morph Loader with the shape still applied to the figure and check Reverse Deformations - that will create a custom morph that is just your chnages to be apoplied on top of the Daz or other third-party morphs.

  • I'm an iClone user, they allow FBX exported from DAZ to be used in their Character Creator software. I am just making my own movies, totally non-professional and not for public display. Do I need interactive licenses for, say, a Genesis 3 morph? Thanks. 

  • I'm an iClone user, they allow FBX exported from DAZ to be used in their Character Creator software. I am just making my own movies, totally non-professional and not for public display. Do I need interactive licenses for, say, a Genesis 3 morph? Thanks. 

    You only need the license if oyu are using the models in a format that you need to send the 3d data tot he end user

       Movies of photos - no license needed, you can make as much money as you want as well

       3d games usign Daz character models - you need a license

      Software like marvelous designer where you include daz models - you need a license

      2D games where you use 2d image of a daz model. Examples would include: 2d spirit sheets made from Daz models, visual novels, a card game where the pics ont he cards are rendered in Daz - No need for a license

     

    ONE AREA THATS IN QUESTION

       Using Daz models for 3d printing - that is soemthing you will need to get a answer from daz 

     

  • Woody4DWoody4D Posts: 12
    xyer0 said:
    Nath said:

    Except it means there's a gigantic ugly block on every product page.  Is there somewhere under settings I can go to get rid of these option boxes?

    This.

    Here's hoping that Ati and Overdrawn can add some sort of "hide Optional License" to their awesome Daz-Deals add-on. :)

    This.

    WHAT?  EMPTY SPACE??N ???  'This'  what???   What is this 'black box' talk?? 

  • Woody4DWoody4D Posts: 12

    We are going to cease all use of Daz 3D because we cannot figure out where / what / how much / for what / or any info at all about these 'fees' (I really don't like that 's' at the end either!!)  That legal document says NOTHING I understand.  I opened a ticket for more info, an explanation, they sent 1 small; paragraphe about 3D requiring fees (what the hell does that mean specifically? THIS IS WHY  Ighave never once heard of any studio using Daz for pro level work, No one can firuue out the LEGALESE!!  With Epic, you can make $100,000 each year with their tool, above that you pay a small percentage. 

    Easy. Peasy.  Daz? 

    Impossible to use and understand or even KNOW one's obligations.  (and likely up front fees which kills 99.99999% of  projects befoer they can exist.. Anyone normal, average,. (their customer base through and through...) who might have used it to publish,  Can't becuase they don't have money up front, that is why hey are working!!    hate thsi company now for pulling this,. Charge me for the tools or charge a fee of my profit, but pulling this garbage ????!!!  I would never use their tool orpay them a penny out of principle now. 

     

     


    ential use. They are ido.

  • Woody

      There are only 2 times you need to buy a license

    1. If you want to 3d print your models for sale.

    2. If you are selling a product that allows the end user to strip the moedling data. For example a 3d game.

     

    For any 2D work, including games and movies then there are no other fees 

  • Woody

      There are only 2 times you need to buy a license

    1. If you want to 3d print your models for sale.

    2. If you are selling a product that allows the end user to strip the moedling data. For example a 3d game.

     

    For any 2D work, including games and movies then there are no other fees 

    The last I knew 3D printing was only allowed for personal use and NOT for sale even if you have the interactive license. As far as I know no additional license is required to print for personal use but this could only be done on your own printer or by a company (such as GamePrint) that is approved by DAZ.

  • Woody

    2. If you are selling a product that allows the end user to strip the moedling data. For example a 3d game.

     

    As far as I remember, you are obligated to "protect" the meshes in such a case... Would a sort of encrypted packaging be enough for that, or what would be required?

    (And how should your program access these encrypted files then - I'd guess having the encryption-code in the exe might be considered risky nowadays, too?)

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 5,825

    Woody

      There are only 2 times you need to buy a license

    1. If you want to 3d print your models for sale.

    2. If you are selling a product that allows the end user to strip the moedling data. For example a 3d game.

     

    For any 2D work, including games and movies then there are no other fees 

    The last I knew 3D printing was only allowed for personal use and NOT for sale even if you have the interactive license. As far as I know no additional license is required to print for personal use but this could only be done on your own printer or by a company (such as GamePrint) that is approved by DAZ.

    Indeed, interactive license doesn't allow commercial 3D printing, and personal 3D printing doesn't require an additional license.

    However the EULA mentions "Commercial 3D Print Add-On Licenses", so Daz has obviously planned those even though they're not available in the store right now.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,996

    Woody

    2. If you are selling a product that allows the end user to strip the moedling data. For example a 3d game.

     

    As far as I remember, you are obligated to "protect" the meshes in such a case... Would a sort of encrypted packaging be enough for that, or what would be required?

    (And how should your program access these encrypted files then - I'd guess having the encryption-code in the exe might be considered risky nowadays, too?)

    The mesh needs to be protected in such a way as to prevent anyone stripping it out of the game. The is noted in the license -

    3.0 Interactive License Addendum

    *snipped* User may not in any case: publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any CRT Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the CRT Content can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format.

     

     

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