Interactive License?

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Comments

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,243
    frank0314 said:

    Actually the Daz indie license is good for unlimited number of project, it was the 3rd party PAs that had limits on their stuf

     

     So the indie license is a lifetime license? really? cool

    Is it the same thing after the recent license change (for the actual owners of the indie license?)

    Yes to both, its a lifetime license.

    With the qualifier that this is only for the Daz Original license.   Not the PA indie licenses.

  • ChakradudeChakradude Posts: 192
    edited November 2017
    jillval8 said:

    So instead of paying 500$ to be able to use daz mesh into my game i have to pay 35$ each?

     

    Are you kidding me?  so i just invested 1K over the last month for nothing?

     

    Are you kidding!!!!??!!!!!

     

    There was an information about this in the forum from DAZ previously and therefore I bought the game developer indie license last week at a discount for $75. When I see now that each DAZ Original character is $50 for the interactive license then I'm very happy that I purchased the indie license beforehand.

    Does not excuse anything.

     

    Yes I agree the additional interactive license pricing is also way above of what I expected. I was thinking maybe 25% additional to the original price or similar. Also they could have announced it before and have given the users enough time to decide.

    +12 on this. I am so toatally screwed by this. I have been building a library for 10 years and just getting close to needing a licence. How can this possibly be more economical for long time daz devoties? I would have found a way to pony up the money for a grandfathered in licence I could actually use! I am talking here about the daz original gaming licence.

    Post edited by Chakradude on
  • Hi,  i bought, two hears ago the indie licence.  350 $ . My licence isnt not good? 

  • pruggipruggi Posts: 151
    Arisguard said:

    Hi,  i bought, two hears ago the indie licence.  350 $ . My licence isnt not good? 

    Old licenses are still valid, nothing has changed there; the changes apply to users who did not purchase a DO license (in the case of Daz Originals). You can prove ownership by your proof of purchase when you ordered it (the order number), or Daz support can always find it in your purchase history - that's what they told me in support.

  • jillval8jillval8 Posts: 50
    edited November 2017

    was anybody able to get in contact with Daz, to see if we can still buy the indie license by request or something?

    Post edited by jillval8 on
  • jillval8 said:

    was anybody able to get in contact with Daz, to see if we can still buy the indie license by request or something?

    Two admins said that they were told that current owners of the indie license could upgrade to pro by contacting Daz.  So Daz appears to be willing to talk about a one time license fee. They will probably wait till the dust settles and see how sales are effected by the new plan before deciding on how to handle such a request 

  • th3Digit said:
    JTVRT said:

    What about animation products and the new interactive Licence system?

    I did invest in a lot of content from the Daz Store for an animation project > What will be the impact?

    I am  afraid that a lot of my content will get useless after this decision.

    I hope you can reassure me that 2 years work will not be for nothing!!

     

    When you render 2D images / image sequences / videos and don't distribute a game or software that contains meshes or textures than I don't see a problem. I export my DAZ content via FBX to C4D to animate and render there.

    I think perhaps  they mean animations in games for NPC etc

    for that I would suggest the iClone pipeline bundle 

     

  • I really mean: animation made with Daz3D and rendered with Daz for small animation fragments, for online or TV.

     

  • jillval8 said:
    JTVRT said:

    Could anybody point me at an existing game that uses assets like this? Like.... a bunch of different human people, with different clothes, as an essential gameplay element? In my own Steam library I'm mostly coming up with stuff like... Skyrim, and other big-setting RPGs. Big budget stuff. All the indie stuff is... small, hardly any characters at all ((if any). But I don't see everything, of course. What exactly is the model here?

    *

    The thing about 'working on a game' instead of 'releasing a game' is that you can STILL WORK ON A GAME. You can use stand-in assets or whatever. A license is not needed to Work On A Game. And I doubt anybody who looks at Steam regularly is going to be surprised at how many games do get released. It's still a drop in the bucket to how many people are 'working on a game'. Heck, I'm working on THREE games and I have ideas for about three more (although none of them require 3d mesh).

    OK, so you're thinking: why should I 'work on a game' if I don't KNOW that I'll SOMEDAY be able to release it and sell it? And, well... ultimately everybody has to find their own answer to that but I think a good one is: to see if you can make a game. And you know, then, if you actually complete a game and all you need is that darn license, I bet a license can be acquired. Or somebody else will start selling the perfect assets you can swap in. Or you get a volunteer modeler. Or you pitch it somewhere and a small indie team gets excited by it. But if you stop the journey because you can't see the end, well... you'll never see the end. But if you make the journey and then you have to trunk a finished game because you couldn't get the licensing right, well, for one, you've finished a game! and learned a lot! and for two.... you're a lot like a number of independent creators, who worked really, really hard on something, for months and years, and then just... couldn't... sell it. For whatever reason. It isn't strange or unusual. It's just... the process of being a creator.
    a
    Yeah, the license being changed sucks. But I really, really hope it won't stop anybody from actually making a game. Because releasing that game is the very last step, and often a long road away, and so much can happen between here and there and there's so much to see along the way.... that it's really worth it, even if what you get is a game nobody ever plays. Go ahead, ask me how I know. :-)

     

     

     

    Most indies as of today don't have the capital to hire artist, you do have indies the constants of 3, 2, and/or even 1 person that are able to make decent and fun games daz, might not be AAA populaity, but that's nothing to aspect, but indeed possible. Else the commecial license would have never existed. That's were daz3d "played" a big part, and allow that indie developer or small studio that was tight on money to start of small by giving that indie developer a vairety of models, and tools to alter and mix and make something unique, something you cant and will never get on the asset store and most of other sites. That's what made daz pupolar amonst indies, else you wouldn't have all these cool tools and plugins specifially made for daz on the asset store, allow us to have facial animations, speech plugins, great sites like maximo, and the list goes on. As a game developers and other developers on this forum expressing our complaints and concerns, we wouldnt be here if daz wasn't a useful place to help us start of small. beieleve or not daz was a great tool to help indies start off small, which made daz popular, because I say again, most indies dont have the captitle to hire artist and I forgot to mention most indies don't know "that guy" who happens to no how to do 3d models. You have people who have stated a couple of times here saying that put months, years, into there project and was plainning on purchasing the daz license soon as they were able to do so, and now a brickwall was put up. That's time alot of us can never get back.. All I'm saying man, is it's easier said then done, which is something common these days, because as a indie myself I'll never tell another developer what they need to focus more on and what their workflow should constints of, because at the end of the day, peoples talents, ideas, and and nohow are different, they know what tools they need to work with to get something done.

     

  • I am JTVRT and I did't say those words you quoted  :-)

    I am into Television and online content creation - not into game-making

    But good thinking, jillval8

     

  • JTVRT said:

    What about animation products and the new interactive Licence system?

    I did invest in a lot of content from the Daz Store for an animation project > What will be the impact?

    I am  afraid that a lot of my content will get useless after this decision.

    I hope you can reassure me that 2 years work will not be for nothing!!

     

    When you render 2D images / image sequences / videos and don't distribute a game or software that contains meshes or textures than I don't see a problem. I export my DAZ content via FBX to C4D to modify, animate and render there.
    Thank you for the clear explanation Marander3D
  • pruggipruggi Posts: 151

    I must say... one thing that does concern me a bit, is that the way this change occured worries me for potential future changes. Let's say I want 5 items and each has a 50$ license fee. So I buy those 5 items (because they are on discount for example) and wait to buy the 5 licenses until I have the sufficient money. Then, all of a sudden those license fees will drastically increase, or get taken down, or a different model put into place. Therefore, what worries me more than anything is the inability to plan, given the potential for uncertainty and ability to change structure without any real warning. In the past, it seemed possible to build up a little library and then buy the license when you had the money - now, it seems the only safe way to do this is to only buy a product with the license at the same time - therefore ruling out the uncertainty... but this would again drastically decrease my chances of buying something, since I can't always immediately drop 70-80$ on an item. 

    But I digress. And at least many more things have license options now!

  • mikekmikek Posts: 160
    edited November 2017
    pruggi said:

    I must say... one thing that does concern me a bit, is that the way this change occured worries me for potential future changes. Let's say I want 5 items and each has a 50$ license fee. So I buy those 5 items (because they are on discount for example) and wait to buy the 5 licenses until I have the sufficient money. Then, all of a sudden those license fees will drastically increase, or get taken down, or a different model put into place. Therefore, what worries me more than anything is the inability to plan, given the potential for uncertainty and ability to change structure without any real warning. In the past, it seemed possible to build up a little library and then buy the license when you had the money - now, it seems the only safe way to do this is to only buy a product with the license at the same time - therefore ruling out the uncertainty... but this would again drastically decrease my chances of buying something, since I can't always immediately drop 70-80$ on an item. 

    Yes uncertainty has become a bigger issue. Start developing now and in a year they might change it again without any details about the change beforehand. Something like that can screw one over again. The only two somewhat save options I see at the moment is to either buy all core content + license one will need at the start (for the ones who are able to do that) or not rely on daz content to heavily. In my opinion most of the daz environments and some other items can't compete with good items from other stores anymore. What remains are the characters. Upside for me would be there is one artist with genesis figures who fit for my game which weren't usable before. Downside is I could use with my budget now only very few ones when going the daz route.

    Post edited by mikek on
  • AtanaciusAtanacius Posts: 330
    edited November 2017

    My guess is.. this interactive license make run / flee many game developpers that are indie.

    Is that the thing DAZ want? .. Not Sure..

    Then, I think DAZ will revamp entirely their pricing for license but.. this never happened this year, I will say.. next middle year !

    Who take the bet :) ?

    Post edited by Atanacius on
  • It is unfortunate that the blanket licenses have been removed. I was just about to purchase the Daz 3D indie license on sale, then when I looked next, it was gone. Would it not have been a better strategy to offer both the blanket licenses and the individual ones? This way, it would cater to both those who want to use their larger Daz asset collections, as well as those who want a piecemeal selection.

  • If this really was a move motivated by Daz thinking that the older licenses were too expensive for some, why not use both license methods? That way, customers who only want a few assets for Interactive could just buy one for those items, and those who want one for thier larger collections had a viable way to aquire those. I was just on the verge of buying the Indie one when it was on sale, and when my money came in it was gone. This was a big disappointment, as the new license model is not viable for me.

  • pruggipruggi Posts: 151
    Atanacius said:

    My guess is.. this interactive license make run / flee many game developpers that are indie.

    Is that the thing DAZ want? .. Not Sure..

    Then, I think DAZ will revamp entirely their pricing for license but.. this never happened this year, I will say.. next middle year !

    Who take the bet :) ?

    I don't know about that. I mean, I think it's stuck between a rock and a hard place. If Daz decides to change their license and pricing structure again - let's say next year, and decides to re-introduce blanket licenses - then this will piss off a lot of people yet again. If someone spends thousands on interactive licenses now, just to find out that in 6 months a blanket license is re-introduced - can you imagine how angry that person might be? This all feeds into the uncertainty thing I was talking about; it's hard to feel certain about any license structure, as there is that fear that it will suddently change again without notice. One might think, I don't want to spend 50$ per item now, since maybe, one day, blanket licenses will be re-introduced. But on the other hand, one might think, I need to buy those at 50$ per item NOW, since those license prices could increase without notice or be removed completely. Again, it's really hard to plan effectively without just biting the bullet and buying those interactive licenses up-front, or much more sensibly (like @mikek wrote), stop relying on Daz for large amounts of content.

  • jillval8jillval8 Posts: 50
    edited November 2017
    pruggi said:
    Atanacius said:

     

    pruggi said:

    I don't know abot that. I mean, I think it's stuck between a rock and a hard place. If Daz decides to change their license and pricing structure again - let's say next year, and decides to re-introduce blanket licenses - then this will piss off a lot of people yet again. If someone spends thousands on interactive licenses now, just to find out that in 6 months a blanket license is re-introduced - can you imagine how angry that person might be? This all feeds into the uncertainty thing I was talking about; it's hard to feel certain about any license structure, as there is that fear that it will suddently change again without notice. One might think, I don't want to spend 50$ per item now, since maybe, one day, blanket licenses will be re-introduced. But on the other hand, one might think, I need to buy those at 50$ per item NOW, since those license prices could increase without notice or be removed completely. Again, it's really hard to plan effectively without just biting the bullet and buying those interactive licenses up-front, or much more sensibly (like @mikek wrote), stop relying on Daz for large amounts of content.

    thing is a lot of people us "customers" dedicated a lot of time on daz, and a brick wall was put up, so imagine how we feel, which is why a lot of people are upset. Also, trust me when I say this, no one is or has.. as far as indies are concerned, are going to spend thousands of dollars on models, because the captial is not there, because like said before if someone had that type of money, they would already have hired pofessional artist. Most indies don't have it like that though.

     

     

    It would have been good if daz would have included interactive license in the membership club thingy, it would have actually been worth buying. PS: has anyone heard anything from daz yet, and gotten a actual answer from them?

    Post edited by jillval8 on
  • pruggipruggi Posts: 151
    edited November 2017
    jillval8 said:
    pruggi said:
    Atanacius said:

     

    pruggi said:

    I don't know abot that. I mean, I think it's stuck between a rock and a hard place. If Daz decides to change their license and pricing structure again - let's say next year, and decides to re-introduce blanket licenses - then this will piss off a lot of people yet again. If someone spends thousands on interactive licenses now, just to find out that in 6 months a blanket license is re-introduced - can you imagine how angry that person might be? This all feeds into the uncertainty thing I was talking about; it's hard to feel certain about any license structure, as there is that fear that it will suddently change again without notice. One might think, I don't want to spend 50$ per item now, since maybe, one day, blanket licenses will be re-introduced. But on the other hand, one might think, I need to buy those at 50$ per item NOW, since those license prices could increase without notice or be removed completely. Again, it's really hard to plan effectively without just biting the bullet and buying those interactive licenses up-front, or much more sensibly (like @mikek wrote), stop relying on Daz for large amounts of content.

    thing is a lot of people us "customers" dedicated a lot of time on daz, and a brick wall was put up, so imagine how we feel, which is why a lot of people are upset. Also, trust me when I say this, no one is or has.. as far as indies are concerned, are going to spend thousands of dollars on models, because the captial is not there, because like said before if someone had that type of money, they would already have hired pofessional artist. Most indies don't have it like that though.

    It would have been good if daz would have included interactive license in the membership club thingy, it would have actually been worth buying. PS: has anyone heard anything from daz yet, and gotten a actual answer from them?

    I definitely agree with you about this. I was the one (or among those) who said (earlier in this thread) that if someone had that type of money, they would already have hired a professional artist - really no one with an indie budget can afford anywhere near those costs, and those who can are going to hire a full-timer to develop custom content. I definitely disagree with the way these licenses were removed without warning, which gave developers 0 chance of preparing for that change and potentially losing them thousands that they already spent on Daz content, now deemed useless in their game without the tens of thousands to purchase those licenses. My comment was more towards the uncertainty that this has created, both for those who hold and don't hold licenses. 

    What I meant above was that if they change the structure once again and re-introduce blanket licenses, it would again create uncertainty and could make those who purchased interactive licenses angry as well - there will be those who already spent months or years on a game using Daz content and need to buy those very expensive individual interactive licenses (even if it's just for some items) to release their game, since they have no other choice really. This wasn't to say I don't think blanket licenses should be re-introduced, as I personally do think they should - it was just to say that it would again create more uncertainty, particularly if this was done in a long time - past 6 months or 1 year.

    Post edited by pruggi on
  • CortexCortex Posts: 95
    edited November 2017

    I was going to buy the "Commercial Licence" and a large amount of Daz clothes for my project once it entered its final phase.

    The program for automatically converting in the Daz exported models to our format, converting their skeletons etc has been written in c++ and tested and works on the free models. The graphics is currently being completely re-written in dx12, (the project started in dx11) and is optimised to be able to display a large amount of different high polygon meshes simultenously (ideal for hundreds of different clothes and avatars all at their full polygon count)

     

    Now I guess I will have to look elsewhere and Daz loses my money. (intended initial budget on these models $5000 with more later)

    Its very frustrating. I hope Daz reconsiders and decides to bring back the licences.

    Post edited by Cortex on
  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,729

    Write to DAZ. Not post here in the forum. Write snail mail to the DAZ CEO, put in a ticket to Customer support. That way, it will count and perhaps make a difference.

  • mikekmikek Posts: 160
    Atanacius said:

    What I meant above was that if they change the structure once again and re-introduce blanket licenses, it would again create uncertainty and could make those who purchased interactive licenses angry as well - there will be those who already spent months or years on a game using Daz content and need to buy those very expensive individual interactive licenses (even if it's just for some items) to release their game, since they have no other choice really. This wasn't to say I don't think blanket licenses should be re-introduced, as I personally do think they should - it was just to say that it would again create more uncertainty, particularly if this was done in a long time - past 6 months or 1 year.

    A simple way around that uncertainty would be to inform developers about changes early enough like other companies do it. Some companies like valve go even so far to ask the developers what kind of costs work for them.
    Beside that lowering the costs/good changes are never a really big issue. Pushing prices up 100 times as high as it was (for some developers) with no warning like they did is.

  • They could solve this by just making the old indie and commercial licenses still available. For PA's, being able to grab one or two items with the new license is great. And they should let PA's decide if they want to sell the old store wide license for a single game. What's the harm in adding options? I never understood removing options.

    And lots of us have issued tickets. We've been told they're overwhelmed with tickets. I haven't receieved a response to my suggestions to bring back the old licenses yet though they did answer my other questions.

     

     

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited November 2017

    What shocks me is the per item license cost. How does an item that cost $30 have a license cost of $50? Also why do some items even have a license option? Not name products but some examples include: Toon shaders and lights; I did not know you could take these outside daz studio which makes gettting a license for them pointless

     PC+ membership also appears to have a license option, why? Does it give you a licnese for any PC+ items you buy and how do they keep track of which items you have license for as items go on and off the PC+ list

    One other thing, the base genesis models should not have a license cost, they should atleast be free

    Other than that looking at the prices makes me think they are pushing bundles. You pay more for Victory Pro than you do starter or base but you get alot more items for your 50 license fee

     

     

    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • What shocks me is the per item license cost. How does an item that $30 have a license cost of $50? Also how some strang items seems to have a license fee; I will not name a product but some examples include

      Toon shaders and lights; I did not know you could take these outside daz studio which makes gettting a license for them pointless

     PC+ member ship also appears to have a license cost, why? Does that give you a licnese for any PC+ items you buy and how do they keep track of which items oyu have license for as items go on and off the PC+ list

    One other thing, the base genesis modles should not have a license cost, they should atleast be free

    Other than that it looking at the prices makes me think they are pushing bundles. You pay more for Victory Pro than you do starter or base but you get alot more items for your 50 license fee

     

     

    I agree, thats what I tend to believe. But the bundles are overpriced when you think about it, there like 100 dollars plus the IL. From my personal opinon its not worth it, especially the assets the comes with the bundle.

  • jillval8jillval8 Posts: 50
    edited November 2017

    They could solve this by just making the old indie and commercial licenses still available. For PA's, being able to grab one or two items with the new license is great. And they should let PA's decide if they want to sell the old store wide license for a single game. What's the harm in adding options? I never understood removing options.

    And lots of us have issued tickets. We've been told they're overwhelmed with tickets. I haven't receieved a response to my suggestions to bring back the old licenses yet though they did answer my other questions.

     

     

    Wow, really??? Plus there's no way they/ daz havent read the fourms and somehow overlooked the costumers complaints, plus I'm pretty sure PAs  who have a directline to daz have brought this up to daz in a discussion by now, rather they were for bringing back the licesne or against it. Hopefully the PA's can help speak up for us, because this does they did indeed lose comstumers too, especially if they are a PA with store pages filled with enviroments and props. I'm not going to mention who, but I was going to buy indie license to his catalog, but since this happen, I've been looking elsewhere for enviroments and I found 2 or 3 other sites with a truck load of high quality environments and props for 10 dollars and up. Most of the enviroments they made me go wow, were less then 20 bucks, and that was a flat fee with the external license included with it. So, I'm indeed happy about that. But,there's no way daz and PAs havent had a disscuion about now. So I'm so daz know about our concerns and frastratiions,else they would have given us a straight answer. 

    Post edited by jillval8 on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 13,040

    What shocks me is the per item license cost. How does an item that $30 have a license cost of $50? Also how some strang items seems to have a license fee; I will not name a product but some examples include

      Toon shaders and lights; I did not know you could take these outside daz studio which makes gettting a license for them pointless

     PC+ member ship also appears to have a license cost, why? Does that give you a licnese for any PC+ items you buy and how do they keep track of which items oyu have license for as items go on and off the PC+ list

    One other thing, the base genesis modles should not have a license cost, they should atleast be free

    Other than that it looking at the prices makes me think they are pushing bundles. You pay more for Victory Pro than you do starter or base but you get alot more items for your 50 license fee

     

     

    It's been a while since I first read that the PC+ has a license available since DAZ 3D started this new license scheme. If that's true it should mean every item marked PC+ when you buy it has an interactive license which is almost good as the old game license for all DAZ Original products. You should inquire with the DAZ 3D help desk to clarify what that PC+ interactive license actually buys and if it is all PC+ items you buy are licensed for interactive use with that license buy it by all means if you really want a cheap license for cheap content.  

  • What shocks me is the per item license cost. How does an item that $30 have a license cost of $50? Also how some strang items seems to have a license fee; I will not name a product but some examples include

      Toon shaders and lights; I did not know you could take these outside daz studio which makes gettting a license for them pointless

     PC+ member ship also appears to have a license cost, why? Does that give you a licnese for any PC+ items you buy and how do they keep track of which items oyu have license for as items go on and off the PC+ list

    One other thing, the base genesis modles should not have a license cost, they should atleast be free

    Other than that it looking at the prices makes me think they are pushing bundles. You pay more for Victory Pro than you do starter or base but you get alot more items for your 50 license fee

     

     

    It's been a while since I first read that the PC+ has a license available since DAZ 3D started this new license scheme. If that's true it should mean every item marked PC+ when you buy it has an interactive license which is almost good as the old game license for all DAZ Original products. You should inquire with the DAZ 3D help desk to clarify what that PC+ interactive license actually buys and if it is all PC+ items you buy are licensed for interactive use with that license buy it by all means if you really want a cheap license for cheap content.  

    I have an indie license so I am good with that. Just seems like if they are going to sell a license for PC+ membership they shoudl clearly define what the terms are. 

          Do you keep the license if you do not renew your PC+ membership

          If you buy an item on the PC+ list that is later removed from it do you still keep your license

    Those are just two questions that hsould be clearly answered when they offer to sell you a license  

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 13,040

    What shocks me is the per item license cost. How does an item that $30 have a license cost of $50? Also how some strang items seems to have a license fee; I will not name a product but some examples include

      Toon shaders and lights; I did not know you could take these outside daz studio which makes gettting a license for them pointless

     PC+ member ship also appears to have a license cost, why? Does that give you a licnese for any PC+ items you buy and how do they keep track of which items oyu have license for as items go on and off the PC+ list

    One other thing, the base genesis modles should not have a license cost, they should atleast be free

    Other than that it looking at the prices makes me think they are pushing bundles. You pay more for Victory Pro than you do starter or base but you get alot more items for your 50 license fee

     

     

    It's been a while since I first read that the PC+ has a license available since DAZ 3D started this new license scheme. If that's true it should mean every item marked PC+ when you buy it has an interactive license which is almost good as the old game license for all DAZ Original products. You should inquire with the DAZ 3D help desk to clarify what that PC+ interactive license actually buys and if it is all PC+ items you buy are licensed for interactive use with that license buy it by all means if you really want a cheap license for cheap content.  

    I have an indie license so I am good with that. Just seems like if they are going to sell a license for PC+ membership they shoudl clearly define what the terms are. 

          Do you keep the license if you do not renew your PC+ membership

          If you buy an item on the PC+ list that is later removed from it do you still keep your license

    Those are just two questions that hsould be clearly answered when they offer to sell you a license  

     

    I'm only interested in some work from individual PAs as I also have the earlier DAZ Originals license too.

     

  • mikekmikek Posts: 160

    Also why do some items even have a license option? Not name products but some examples include: Toon shaders and lights; I did not know you could take these outside daz studio which makes gettting a license for them pointless

    Better not complain to much about things which don't work well. Shader packages can come with textures and maybe there will be some who are of use for some developers even if they don't port well. Daz doesn't seem to understand the developer side so its better they let us decide what we can use then them removing to much and hitting usefull items.

    For Monique 8 they already don't offer a interactive license for starter or pro bundle. If you want the Monique 8 Pro bundle for a game its now 440 license costs alone. It's already getting worse.

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