Interactive License?

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Comments

  • marander3dmarander3d Posts: 50
    edited November 2017
    mikek said:

     

    + You said that OBJ files are useless in game engine, but I read somewhere you can import them to some game engines like Unity. That doesn't sound useless to me. Again these HD Add-on contain new 3d mesh, and they can be used in games. Maybe it doesn't suit your needs, but for some it does, and they have to pay to use it in 3D games.

     

    HD morphs don't export. Its a inhouse solution by daz which only PAs have access to. If you export a model to obj or fbx from DS it exports without the HD morphs. 

    Yes they do in my opinion, see my tests below (Ivan HD and Gen8 custom morph with vascularity), exported as obj to Cinema 4D. However I prefer using fbx (which dosn't export HD morphs) for animation.
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    Post edited by marander3d on
  • mikekmikek Posts: 160

    Yes they do in my opinion, see my tests below (Ivan HD and Gen8 custom morph with vascularity), exported as obj to Cinema 4D. However I prefer using fbx (which dosn't export HD morphs) for animation.

    What kind of settings are you using for the obj export? I tried and its just the default model for me.

  • PadonePadone Posts: 1,302
    edited November 2017

    @marander3d

    As I said. They export to obj, but to do it you need to crank-up the subd so they are not usable in games. To use HD in games, you have to export a normal map, and this is not possible inside DS. So mikek is right.

    @minhdinheeit

    As I said. I'm not interested in the interactive license myself. Since it is clear to me that DAZ assets don't fit game engines. But, should I need to get an interactive license for some strange reason, I will not miss to ask details before to DAZ and the PA about the asset usability in games. I would strongly advise you all to do the same. Since once you get the license there is no way to return it back.

    @Dream Cutter

    In the case of HD morphs you just can't export them in a suitable format. So there's no way you can use them. This is not about optimization.

    EDIT: and, in my opinion, even when the asset is usable by "optimizations", they should at least make it clear in the product page since the license has no refund. Something like: WARNING THIS ASSET IS NOT USABLE AS IS IN GAMES IT NEEDS TO BE OPTIMIZED.

     

    Post edited by Padone on
  • marander3dmarander3d Posts: 50
    edited November 2017
    Padone said:

    @marander3d

    As I said. They export to obj, but to do it you need to crank-up the subd so they are not usable in games. To use HD in games, you have to export a normal map, and this is not possible inside DS. So mikek is right.

    @minhdinheeit

    As I said. I'm not interested in the interactive license myself. Since it is clear to me that DAZ assets don't fit game engines. But, should I need to get an interactive license for some strange reason, I will not miss to ask details before to DAZ and the PA about the asset usability in games. I would strongly advise you all to do the same. Since once you get the license there is no way to return it back.

    @Dream Cutter

    In the case of HD morphs you just can't export them in a suitable format. So there's no way you can use them. This is not about optimization.

     

    Yes correct, you have to crank up the subd for exporting. And yes, baking the HD morphs into normal maps would be great. However I can load into C4D, create different versions with poly reduction and LOD and then export as fbx with LOD settings (so that the object has different detail levels depending on camera distance for example). But I understand your concerns about game compatibilty.
    Post edited by marander3d on
  • mikek said:

    Yes they do in my opinion, see my tests below (Ivan HD and Gen8 custom morph with vascularity), exported as obj to Cinema 4D. However I prefer using fbx (which dosn't export HD morphs) for animation.

    What kind of settings are you using for the obj export? I tried and its just the default model for me.

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  • PadonePadone Posts: 1,302

    @marander3d @mikek

    I see in your picture you marked the render subd. It's not the render subd that gets exported to obj. It's the viewport subd (2 in the picture). To get a good approximation of the HD morphs you need at least a level 3 subd. To get a level 3 subd you have to unlock the use limits option (go to the gear icon). Again, this will not be usable in an interactive game though because of the high poly count. And making LODs will of course get rid of the HD too. The only way for games is by normal maps.

  • mikekmikek Posts: 160

    @marander3d
    Ok thats working now. Interesting.Could be used as basis to paint the own normal map for it.
    Some of the interesting ones like HD expressions won't work with normal maps either way.

  • marander3dmarander3d Posts: 50
    edited November 2017
    Padone said:

    @marander3d @mikek

    I see in your picture you marked the render subd. It's not the render subd that gets exported to obj. It's the viewport subd (2 in the picture). To get a good approximation of the HD morphs you need at least a level 3 subd. To get a level 3 subd you have to unlock the use limits option (go to the gear icon). Again, this will not be usable in an interactive game though because of the high poly count. And making LODs will of course get rid of the HD too. The only way for games is by normal maps.

    Ah great thanks alot! This is why I saw some HD details but not all. Very good to know.
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    Post edited by marander3d on
  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,221
    edited November 2017
    Padone said:

    @marander3d

    As I said. They export to obj, but to do it you need to crank-up the subd so they are not usable in games. To use HD in games, you have to export a normal map, and this is not possible inside DS. So mikek is right.

    @minhdinheeit

    As I said. I'm not interested in the interactive license myself. Since it is clear to me that DAZ assets don't fit game engines. But, should I need to get an interactive license for some strange reason, I will not miss to ask details before to DAZ and the PA about the asset usability in games. I would strongly advise you all to do the same. Since once you get the license there is no way to return it back.

    @Dream Cutter

    In the case of HD morphs you just can't export them in a suitable format. So there's no way you can use them. This is not about optimization.

    EDIT: and, in my opinion, even when the asset is usable by "optimizations", they should at least make it clear in the product page since the license has no refund. Something like: WARNING THIS ASSET IS NOT USABLE AS IS IN GAMES IT NEEDS TO BE OPTIMIZED.

     

    Are you familiar with Alembic?  The critique that morphs can not be exported for your conception IS the limitg factor here.  Its a USE license.  The same technical restrictions on content format apply to the standard 2D rendering rghts too - unless you ONLY use DS for rendering, which is optimal for the DUF content. 

    These critiqes are becoming a moving target lookig for a problem rather than a problem hunting for a solution.. These are hypothetical assertaions based on your determination of value rather than actual development pipeline situation.

    Never let techncal limitations obscure your dream, just find another way to skin the cat.  If I determined I must have DAZ products in my next blockbuster project I would consider contacting a DAZ sales agent directly and propose ab deal that works within your budget. Most COTS vendors also have a division to handle special customer services and custom solutions that are negoatiated on a case by case basis. Commercial enterprises like EA and large clients who buy in bulk or mission critical content are not buying COTS from a on-line stores. They negatiate agreements directly agents of its out-source supliers .  Quality Art os is not cheap, but the advantage of a outsurce supplier is that the costs are predictable and can baked into the business model. This is often prefered for a guarranteed outcome even if is more expensive up front because in-house development depends on many risky variables for success 

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • PadonePadone Posts: 1,302
    edited November 2017

    @Dream Cutter

    The interactive license is for games. If you only do renderings or animations you don't need it. And alembic does not resolve this issue. The only way to resolve the issue inside DS is to provide a normal map exporter for HD morphs. So, as I already said, and this is not hipotetical, it is a fact.

    "EDIT: Put it another way, if I am a customer and I purchase the interactive license for a HD Addon, then I have no way to use it and I have no way to return it back. This does not seem a customer friendly sales policy to me."

    Post edited by Padone on
  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,221
    edited November 2017
    Padone said:

    @Dream Cutter

    The interactive license is for games. If you only do renderings or animations you don't need it. And alembic does not resolve this issue. So, as I already said, and this is not hipotetical, it is a fact.

    "EDIT: Put it another way, if I am a customer and I purchase the interactive license for a HD Addon, then I have no way to use it and I have no way to return it back. This does not seem a customer friendly sales policy to me."

    Heres an idea... only buy the interactive upgrade for the product AFTER you tested the product's sutibility for your choice of game engine. No need to have the intersctive license to do your own R&D Q&A.  If it does not work out - return the produt within a month for a refund. If it does work out, purchase the interactive license upgrade when your game's pre-release orders start rolling in. After all it the interactive use license not the software product we are discussing right.  If you have a developmet team opperativly working on the scene, your corporation needs to be the license holder, otherise each independant developer will need thier own DAZ library to work from.  

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • PadonePadone Posts: 1,302

    My bad. I didn't get that you need to buy both the standard and the interactive license. I was under the impression that the interactive would include the standard as well. If it is so then the customer will always have a way to test before purchasing. Though I don't know if it will work .. "I got the standard to test the asset for interactive and it doesn't fit, so I want a refund" sounds a bit odd to me.

    And said that, the HD case stills a nonsense anyway.

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited November 2017
    Padone said:

    My bad. I didn't get that you need to buy both the standard and the interactive license. I was under the impression that the interactive would include the standard as well. If it is so then the customer will always have a way to test before purchasing. Though I don't know if it will work .. "I got the standard to test the asset for interactive and it doesn't fit, so I want a refund" sounds a bit odd to me.

    And said that, the HD case stills a nonsense anyway.

    Isn't the standard license the basic one you get if you do not buy the interactive license? In any event the items themselves can be returned, just not any add on license (interactive).  So if your test do not work out, then you can return the item, on the other hand if they do work then just go back and pick up the interactive license for the items you tested

    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • PadonePadone Posts: 1,302

    In any event the items themselves can be returned

    By common sense I thought there should be some valid reason to return an asset. Well if it's true that you can always return it in any case then I guess it will work fine enough for everyone. Though I still believe the HD case is odd. Thank you.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 5,878
    Padone said:

    In any event the items themselves can be returned

    By common sense I thought there should be some valid reason to return an asset. Well if it's true that you can always return it in any case then I guess it will work fine enough for everyone. Though I still believe the HD case is odd. Thank you.

    The 30 days moneyback guarantee at Daz does not require a reason to return the asset beside "I want to return it" ;) Daz support will probably ask you if the return is due to a problem they could help you fix, but that's all.

    There have been a few cases in the past years of specific sales where they suspended the guarantee due to the way the sale worked (eg buying x items on day 1 gave you a discount on day 2 items, so returning items from day 1 could lead to complex situations if you had used day 2 discount before the return), but usually returning a product is not a problem.

  • dazamoniumdazamonium Posts: 17
    edited November 2017

    Has anyone gotten a response to their support tickets on this fine Monday morning / afternoon?

    Post edited by dazamonium on
  • Has anyone gotten a response to their support tickets on this fine Monday morning / afternoon?

    Yeah I asked the follwoing

    1. Should purchased Daz originals still say Standard license for people who bought a dev licenses

    2. For people who bought an Indie license, is there a way to upgrade if their income hits over 100,000

    They responded with something along the lines of

         We try to answer every question as soon as possible but it may take 1-2 business days. Till then check the FAQ page 

    No doubt they are swamped with tickets so may take a few days

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 10,821

    Yes they are swamped

  • We have an answer with respect to upgrading to the Commercial License froma  previously purchased Indie License if your income grows sufficiently. It is required, so i was wrong in thinking otherwise, and if you open a Sales Support ticket they will help with that (and the price you paid for the Indie License will be set against the cost of the Commercial License).

    Those of you who have existing licenses should still be able to view the terms by going to the license's page in your Product Library.

  • We have an answer with respect to upgrading to the Commercial License froma  previously purchased Indie License if your income grows sufficiently. It is required, so i was wrong in thinking otherwise, and if you open a Sales Support ticket they will help with that (and the price you paid for the Indie License will be set against the cost of the Commercial License).

    Those of you who have existing licenses should still be able to view the terms by going to the license's page in your Product Library.

    When did they answer that, I must have missed it. Did the price go up on the commercial licnese? 

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 10,821

    We inquired and they answered us to tell you guys.

  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited November 2017
    frank0314 said:

    We inquired and they answered us to tell you guys.

    OOh ok cool, thought I missed some announcement or something. Did they happen to tell you if the license cost has gone up any?

     

    Sorry I did not realize that youa nd Richard are also admins. 

    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 10,821

    Richard just said what we were told and told if you guys had questions to submit a ticket

  • frank0314 said:

    We inquired and they answered us to tell you guys.

    OOh ok cool, thought I missed some announcement or something. Did they happen to tell you if the license cost has gone up any?

     

    Sorry I did not realize that youa nd Richard are also admins. 

    The cost for the Commercial License as an upgrade would be the old base price for the Commercial License - amount paid for the Indie License.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,303
    edited November 2017

     

    ​Updated: 2017 - 11 - 08

    Sales support staff provided a new invoice including the detailed terms of the license.

    ​The pages in the product library now also include the information of the previous product pages.

    - - -

     

     

    Those of you who have existing licenses should still be able to view the terms by going to the license's page in your Product Library.

     

    Updated: 2017 - 11 - 08:

    The Product Library pages have been updated and now feature all the information that was available on the former product pages.

     

    Unfortunately the terms in the Product Library are incomplete.

    Relevant additional information that was on the product pages is still missing as far as I can observe:

     

    - - -

     

    Has anyone gotten a response to their support tickets on this fine Monday morning / afternoon?

     

    Sales support staff was able to provide the terms of the old licenses for DAZ Originals that was only available on the product pages:

     

    "Developers with Personal or Business income of MORE than $100,000.00 annually.
    This license is good for DAZ 3D owned models ONLY! (Artist: DAZ Originals). If another artist is listed after DAZ Original, it is still a DAZ Original product.
    This license is governed by the DAZ 3D Game Developer EULA.
    Note: DAZ 3D published or brokered content <b>MAY NOT</b> be distributed under this license and is subject to the regular DAZ 3D EULA. All discounts are not applicable to this item."

    - - -

    Updated: 2017 - 11 - 08

    Sales support staff provided a new invoice for the Commercial Game Developer License that included the detailed terms previously listed on the product pages.

    - - -

    Thanks to everyone who helped resolving this.

    - - -

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • a-sennova-sennov Posts: 331
     

    Those of you who have existing licenses should still be able to view the terms by going to the license's page in your Product Library.

    You're wrong (again :) ). These terms were never displayed in Product Library previously nor they're displayed now. They always were stated in EULA like this (good that I have a habit of archiving important parts), additional conditions like 100000$ limit were stated on store pages (now gone):

     

    3.0 DAZ Commercial Real-time Addendum

    The terms of this addendum 3.0 are in force only when User has purchased one of the following products from the online DAZ store:

        Indy Game Developer License (sku: 12113)
        Commercial Game Developer License (sku: 12479)
        RawArt Commercial Game Developer License (sku: 12618)

    The terms of this addendum 3.0 apply to all products the User has purchased via their online DAZ store account that can be identified in the online DAZ store using the following criteria:

        In the description field for the product, the DAZ icon appears: DAZ Icon
        When the User moves the mouse pointer over the icon, a text box appear with the words “DAZ Original”
        And if User has purchased RawArt Commercial Game Developer License (sku: 12618)
            View the product page in the online DAZ store, under the title of the product a field appears labeled “Shop more by:” and the field must be populated with the term “RawArt” and only the term “RawArt”

    All Content that can be identified according to the above criteria shall hereinafter be referred to as “CRT Content”. The terms of this addendum 3.0 do not apply to any other Content the User has licensed via their online DAZ store account.

        Modified Terms of Use. This section replaces Section 1.0 Paragraph E “TERMS OF USE” for CRT Content ONLY. User may also (i) incorporate, copy and modify the CRT Content which they have purchased from the DAZ online store in the creation and presentation of animations and renderings which may require access to the CRT Content by the User’s customer during electronic execution of the User’s application, and (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three dimensional objects) derived from the Content in other works and publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense such combined works; provided that User may not in any case: (a) separately publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any CRT Content or any part thereof; or (b) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any CRT Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the CRT Content can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format. Subject to the foregoing limitations, and the rights, if any, of third parties in or to the objects represented by the CRT Content, User may copy, distribute, and/or sell User’s animations and renderings derived from the CRT Content. All other rights with respect to the CRT Content and their use are reserved by DAZ and its PAs. User warrants and is responsible to ensure that the CRT Content used in the User’s application are not available to end users in their native formats and that every effort is made to protect the CRT Content from theft or copyright infringement by employing technology, asset protection, encryption or any other resources at User’s disposal.

        Notwithstanding the foregoing, DAZ wishes to encourage user expansion of the catalog of CRT Content available to users. Therefore, User may also access, use, copy, and modify the CRT Content stored on such computers in the creation of one or more derived or additional works provided that:
            any derived or additional works are designed to require or encourage the use of Content available through the online DAZ store either by (i) requiring the use of such Content to function, or (ii) allowing only limited function when not used in conjunction with Content from the online DAZ store; and
            User hereby agrees that upon receipt of a written request from DAZ, to cease any and all distribution of the User’s art that User has created from the CRT Content if DAZ has determined, at its sole discretion, that (i) the art User has created from the CRT Content is substantially similar to or is a clone of existing Content; or (ii) the derived or additional works fail to require the use of Content available through the online DAZ store.

        Physical images (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any art derived from the Content is permitted only by User’s purchase from DAZ, via the User’s online DAZ store account, permission to deliver User’s derived works (art), including necessary Content, to an entity that creates 3D-images in a physical medium. User may then deliver User’s art in file format to the 3rd-party to have physical images printed or created, up to the limitations set forth in the online DAZ Store delineated on the purchase page associated with the permission product. These limitations govern (i) personal and/or commercial use of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of 3-D printed images allowed.
        Restrictions on separate sale of content within other works While incorporation of the Content into User’s applications is authorized as set forth above, User expressly agrees and acknowledges that any discrete sale of CRT Content separate from a purchase of the User’s application is allowable ONLY with express written consent of DAZ. Thus, for example, within the context of a game, the sale or purchase of the CRT Content, portions thereof, or either 2D or 3D derivatives thereof as a separately-purchased commodity or upgrade using items of actual or virtual worth is prohibited without prior written consent of DAZ. Written consent of DAZ may be sought at the address set forth herein.

     

  •  

    Those of you who have existing licenses should still be able to view the terms by going to the license's page in your Product Library.

    Unfortunately the terms in the Product Library are incomplete.

    As I explained in my previous post the product library pages of  both the Indie and Commercial Game Developer License contain the information

    "Developers with Personal or Business income of MORE than $100,000.00 annually. All discounts are not applicable to this item"

    "Developers with Personal or Business income of LESS than $100,000.00 annually. All discounts are not applicable to this item"

    Relevant additional information that was on the product pages is still missing as far as I can observe:

    I don't have one of the Developer Licenses to check, but if you check you should find the Product Library page now has the full text of the original product page including the terms.

  • edited November 2017

    Actually the Daz indie license is good for unlimited number of project, it was the 3rd party PAs that had limits on their stuf

     

     So the indie license is a lifetime license? really? cool

    Is it the same thing after the recent license change (for the actual owners of the indie license?)

    Post edited by hexadecimalentertainment on
  • pruggipruggi Posts: 151

    Actually the Daz indie license is good for unlimited number of project, it was the 3rd party PAs that had limits on their stuf

     

     So the indie license is a lifetime license? really? cool

    Is it the same thing after the recent license change (for the actual owners of the indie license?)

    Yes, and yes

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 10,821

    Actually the Daz indie license is good for unlimited number of project, it was the 3rd party PAs that had limits on their stuf

     

     So the indie license is a lifetime license? really? cool

    Is it the same thing after the recent license change (for the actual owners of the indie license?)

    Yes to both, its a lifetime license.

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