Interactive License?

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  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited October 2018
    Chohole said:

    Woody

    2. If you are selling a product that allows the end user to strip the moedling data. For example a 3d game.

     

    As far as I remember, you are obligated to "protect" the meshes in such a case... Would a sort of encrypted packaging be enough for that, or what would be required?

    (And how should your program access these encrypted files then - I'd guess having the encryption-code in the exe might be considered risky nowadays, too?)

    The mesh needs to be protected in such a way as to prevent anyone stripping it out of the game. The is noted in the license -

    3.0 Interactive License Addendum

    *snipped* User may not in any case: publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any CRT Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the CRT Content can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format.

     

     

    I used the word allow, maybe a better why would have been. If possible You are not going to be able to preventing people taking models. People take the models from AAA games all the time. The sad truth is if you have the code to encrypt the data then others have the code to decrypt it Also I miss spoke the first time on 3D printing. You can print for personal use jyst not for commercial
    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • Chohole said:

    Woody

    2. If you are selling a product that allows the end user to strip the moedling data. For example a 3d game.

     

    As far as I remember, you are obligated to "protect" the meshes in such a case... Would a sort of encrypted packaging be enough for that, or what would be required?

    (And how should your program access these encrypted files then - I'd guess having the encryption-code in the exe might be considered risky nowadays, too?)

    The mesh needs to be protected in such a way as to prevent anyone stripping it out of the game. The is noted in the license -

    3.0 Interactive License Addendum

    *snipped* User may not in any case: publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any CRT Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the CRT Content can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format.

     

     

     

     

    I used the word allow, maybe a better why would have been. If possible You are not going to be able to preventing people taking models. People take the models from AAA games all the time. The sad truth is if you have the code to encrypt the data then others have the code to decrypt it Also I miss spoke the first time on 3D printing. You can print for personal use jyst not for commercial

     

    That's why I asked - I wanted to know what sort of encryption would be deemed sufficient...

     

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,137

    I guess Daz 3d  or maybe a forum member who is a games making expert, would be the best ones to answer that question.  It's not something the the general run of forum members would know much about imo

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,345

    I seem to be in the minority with the following opinion:

    People rip stuff from games mostly because they get a kick out of using their favorite characters for personal stuff. A tiny market seems to cater to this, rips and illegally sells this content to those who don't want to rip on their own, which is a bit technical. Or it is shared for free. This is an absolute none-issue for Daz content because there is a way easier way to get it for free: pirating. Our content is shared illegally on pirate sites around the world, just like any digital content in existence. The content for a popular game is only available through ripping. Daz content can also be had for cheap in the Daz store, a free end user centric application can be used to easily play around with the content. The notion that anyone would instead rip the same easily available stuff from a game is such a niche inside a niche inside a niche scenario that having an interactive license that is supposed to cover that unlikely case seems really bewildering to me.

    If the real reason for the license is another one, rooted in history perhaps or other legal issues, fine. I just wish we wouldn't confuse people with this ripping/decompile nonesense.

    Anyway, if you want to use Daz content in a game, you need interactive licenses. And that's just that. Unless all you use is prerendered stuff and no 3d data. Say sprite-based characters where each sprite is just a prerendered image of a Daz character. I don't think any amount of encryption is going to change that. Think of it more as a license to distribute the 3d data and forget about what could or could not be done with it

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 5,069

    People rip stuff from games mostly because they get a kick out of using their favorite characters for personal stuff. A tiny market seems to cater to this, rips and illegally sells this content to those who don't want to rip on their own, which is a bit technical. Or it is shared for free. This is an absolute none-issue for Daz content because there is a way easier way to get it for free: pirating. Our content is shared illegally on pirate sites around the world, just like any digital content in existence. The content for a popular game is only available through ripping. Daz content can also be had for cheap in the Daz store, a free end user centric application can be used to easily play around with the content. The notion that anyone would instead rip the same easily available stuff from a game is such a niche inside a niche inside a niche scenario that having an interactive license that is supposed to cover that unlikely case seems really bewildering to me.

    You're assuming that a potential "ripper" actually knows that the content comes from Daz and so would consider other ways to get it. But a good number of those people have probably never heard of Daz...

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,345
    Leana said:

    People rip stuff from games mostly because they get a kick out of using their favorite characters for personal stuff. A tiny market seems to cater to this, rips and illegally sells this content to those who don't want to rip on their own, which is a bit technical. Or it is shared for free. This is an absolute none-issue for Daz content because there is a way easier way to get it for free: pirating. Our content is shared illegally on pirate sites around the world, just like any digital content in existence. The content for a popular game is only available through ripping. Daz content can also be had for cheap in the Daz store, a free end user centric application can be used to easily play around with the content. The notion that anyone would instead rip the same easily available stuff from a game is such a niche inside a niche inside a niche scenario that having an interactive license that is supposed to cover that unlikely case seems really bewildering to me.

    You're assuming that a potential "ripper" actually knows that the content comes from Daz and so would consider other ways to get it. But a good number of those people have probably never heard of Daz...

    Do we really believe that someone who wants to rip a character from a game does not also know about Daz and how they are the go-to place for exactly such characters?

    So let's yes for the sake of argument. That still leaves a very low chance that someone wants to rip Daz content from a game, because none of their favorite game characters made by AAA game studio use Daz content for such things. Even if it somehow did happen, what's the big deal when the same content is already available on pirate sites in a much more usable format? Sharing that stuff on pirate sites or ripping it from a game first and then sharing it on pirate sites seems like the same illegal thing to me. Except in one case, someone paid for an additional license. Nothing was prevented at all.

     

  • Leana said:

     

    Do we really believe that someone who wants to rip a character from a game does not also know about Daz and how they are the go-to place for exactly such characters?

    So let's yes for the sake of argument. That still leaves a very low chance that someone wants to rip Daz content from a game, because none of their favorite game characters made by AAA game studio use Daz content for such things. Even if it somehow did happen, what's the big deal when the same content is already available on pirate sites in a much more usable format? Sharing that stuff on pirate sites or ripping it from a game first and then sharing it on pirate sites seems like the same illegal thing to me. Except in one case, someone paid for an additional license. Nothing was prevented at all.

     

    WHile I agree with you that the people ripping game characters is a very small percentage. Seeing that all the people who rip character data do not care baout the laws they are breaking, I wouldn't be to shocked to learn they know nothing about daz. But let us look deeper into your example

          A rip thief sees a character in a game they want. For the sake of discussion let us say they know it is a daz character. They have 2 choices

            1. Take a few minutes and rip the character from the game

            2. Downlaod daz, find the chracter and items needed. If they are lucky everything will be free and nothing custom made by the game dev

       Seeing that rippers do not care about the law or copyright, it would make sense that most would chose option 1

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 8,121

    Oh yeah, there are plenty of people interested in models that have no clue DAZ exists or if they do know nothing of what it is or how it works. I develop mods for games and know of plenty of forums/sites where people (use that term loosely) are ripping/stealing 3D mesh from all sorts of places including DAZ. I have seen users at sites post genesis models to d/l and say they made it. I have seen people at sites post genesis models to d/l and think it's ok because of creative commons which it isn't. In my experience users rip/steal mesh for their 15 seconds of fame on the internet because they shared it. It's all about "look what i got for you guys to download!" and then the other users post "you da man!", "great job!" "can you rip this also", etc.. I have sent many reports into DAZ CS to have genesis models taken down and every user here should do the same.

    As pointed out, unfortunately it's possible to rip mesh from any game or 3d app that relies on mesh objects so no licensing will prevent it, but it's a good way to help recoup the cost knowing you are losing money on your hard work due to piracy.

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,345
    edited October 2018
    Leana said:

     

    Do we really believe that someone who wants to rip a character from a game does not also know about Daz and how they are the go-to place for exactly such characters?

    So let's yes for the sake of argument. That still leaves a very low chance that someone wants to rip Daz content from a game, because none of their favorite game characters made by AAA game studio use Daz content for such things. Even if it somehow did happen, what's the big deal when the same content is already available on pirate sites in a much more usable format? Sharing that stuff on pirate sites or ripping it from a game first and then sharing it on pirate sites seems like the same illegal thing to me. Except in one case, someone paid for an additional license. Nothing was prevented at all.

     

     

            1. Take a few minutes and rip the character from the game

    I've never done it. Is it really that simple? I would've thought it's a lot more technical than just outright downloading something from a pirate site.

     

    As pointed out, unfortunately it's possible to rip mesh from any game or 3d app that relies on mesh objects so no licensing will prevent it, but it's a good way to help recoup the cost knowing you are losing money on your hard work due to piracy.

    Sure, but what if 99.9% of piracy happens with content straight out of the Daz store? Has anyone even ever seen a Daz model that was ripped from a game instead? It seems such unlikely case. CG is a niche, Daz content is a niche inside of that, ripping game content is even more of a niche (or so I thought). Ripping a Daz model that was put into a game seems like such incredible niche, I'd be surprised if this has ever happened at all. But maybe you know of such cases.

    Post edited by bluejaunte on
  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited October 2018

    I've never done it. Is it really that simple? I would've thought it's a lot more technical than just outright downloading something from a pirate site.

     

    Without going into much detail there are tools and tutorials. Takes minutes I also agree with you that 99.9% of the stolen daz content no doubt is from people sharing items they buy on the daz store. To be honest I am not aware of a game that uses daz characters that people are stealing from. Of course it seems a lot of the games using Daz characters are using default free assets, nothing anyone would want to steal
    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • nmargie_d65db43582nmargie_d65db43582 Posts: 152
    edited October 2018
    Double post
    Post edited by nmargie_d65db43582 on
  • Hi guys, may i ask  one thing? i readed almost all the pages on this thread, but still have a question, as Standart licence says  about this three features

     Render out images,Render out videos,Render out an HDRI or Virtual Reality scene

    if for exemple , if I have a 3D model that I didn’t buy, and I don’t have a license for it, if I render a scene with it, I can use it in my game right? because I do not provide the model itself to other people, but only the render?

     

  • Hi guys, may i ask  one thing? i readed almost all the pages on this thread, but still have a question, as Standart licence says  about this three features

     Render out images,Render out videos,Render out an HDRI or Virtual Reality scene

    if for exemple , if I have a 3D model that I didn’t buy, and I don’t have a license for it, if I render a scene with it, I can use it in my game right? because I do not provide the model itself to other people, but only the render?

    If you don't have a license you can't use it at all, for anything. If you don't have an Interactive License then you can still use 2D renders in your game, yes, but you can't supply the original files (such as an HDRI, even at reduced size, or soemthign like a brick texture applied to walls in your 3D scene).

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 686
    edited November 8

    ... guess not, nm

    Post edited by Catherine3678ab on
  • But i mean, if i  find some kind of 3d model on internet for free that obviosly don't have any license i still can  do 2d renders with that model without any problems right? I'm talking about Visual novel game on Ren Py that dont  provides any meshes or textures, only rendered images.

  • But i mean, if i  find some kind of 3d model on internet for free that obviosly don't have any license i still can  do 2d renders with that model without any problems right? I'm talking about Visual novel game on Ren Py that dont  provides any meshes or textures, only rendered images.

    If it doesn't have a license you can't do anything with it - if people want their models used they must include some kind of license, even if it's only a note saying they are releasing it as public domain. However, since it would not (for a legitimate offering) be daz content Daz imposes no restrictions on what you can do with it - the interactive licenses are for content, not the application.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,137
    edited November 8

    But i mean, if i  find some kind of 3d model on internet for free that obviosly don't have any license i still can  do 2d renders with that model without any problems right? I'm talking about Visual novel game on Ren Py that dont  provides any meshes or textures, only rendered images.

    Daz 3d licenses only apply to Products bought from Daz, including freebies.  3rd party freebie content you need to check the license, usually given on the readme.  You will often find that creators are not licensing freebies to be used in a commercial venture

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 8,121

    But i mean, if i  find some kind of 3d model on internet for free that obviosly don't have any license i still can  do 2d renders with that model without any problems right? I'm talking about Visual novel game on Ren Py that dont  provides any meshes or textures, only rendered images.

    the issue is that many of the models you find for free on the internet are there illegally, either posted from a file sharing site or ripped from a game. for example, you find a 3d model of Mickey Mouse on a website, then rig it to work in Daz Studio and then create renders with it to use in your 3D novel or game, Disney legally own the rights to that and can take action against you for using it.

    Someone had to create the 3d model being used and that person has the rights to that work and how it's used.

  • But i mean, if i  find some kind of 3d model on internet for free that obviosly don't have any license i still can  do 2d renders with that model without any problems right? I'm talking about Visual novel game on Ren Py that dont  provides any meshes or textures, only rendered images.

    If it doesn't have a license you can't do anything with it - if people want their models used they must include some kind of license, even if it's only a note saying they are releasing it as public domain. However, since it would not (for a legitimate offering) be daz content Daz imposes no restrictions on what you can do with it - the interactive licenses are for content, not the application.

    Okey i got you, thank you.So its gonna be hard to make a Visual novel without much free assets, but anyways with the standart ones i can do almost everything, to learn how   to do diferent stuff and then maybe buy some  assets in i advance enough in this:) Thank you again, and sorry for my bad english.

  • the issue is that many of the models you find for free on the internet are there illegally, either posted from a file sharing site or ripped from a game. for example, you find a 3d model of Mickey Mouse on a website, then rig it to work in Daz Studio and then create renders with it to use in your 3D novel or game, Disney legally own the rights to that and can take action against you for using it.

    Someone had to create the 3d model being used and that person has the rights to that work and how it's used.

              Im just starting i can't alredy think about commercial use  i have to learn it first :) But if i make Mickey mouse model by my self i can use it right or not? i was talking about simple stuff in general like background        details, car models etc.. even if i find a mesh without texture and make my own texture i can't use  it ? i mean who  can check this  there is a million of models around internet

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 56,543
    edited November 8

    the issue is that many of the models you find for free on the internet are there illegally, either posted from a file sharing site or ripped from a game. for example, you find a 3d model of Mickey Mouse on a website, then rig it to work in Daz Studio and then create renders with it to use in your 3D novel or game, Disney legally own the rights to that and can take action against you for using it.

    Someone had to create the 3d model being used and that person has the rights to that work and how it's used.

              Im just starting i can't alredy think about commercial use  i have to learn it first :) But if i make Mickey mouse model by my self i can use it right or not? i was talking about simple stuff in general like background        details, car models etc.. even if i find a mesh without texture and make my own texture i can't use  it ? i mean who  can check this  there is a million of models around internet

    You could not use a Mickey Mouse model, even if you made it yourself, as Disney owns the copyright and trademark. Generally you cannot make your own (or use another person's) version of an item or character designed by another entity - and especially not if it belongs to Disney. Trademarks in particular you do not want to infringe upon as the owners are obliged to protect them or risk losing them. Do your best to make sure that the items you use are original, that they are being offered by the maker, and that there is soem kind of license included saying what you can use them for.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • donskookdonskook Posts: 3

    OK. Couple questions.

     

    I understand that you need an interactive license to use Genesis 8 in Unity.

    There are, however, clothing made by Daz3D Originals that don't have "Interactive License" Option when you buy them. Am I right in assuming you can't use those or are they included with any "Genesis 8 Interactive License" options?

  • Silent WinterSilent Winter Posts: 1,780

    Interactive licenses are on a per-item basis - so no, a G8 license doesn't apply to clothing. If a DO item doesn't have an interactive license available on its page, maybe try asking Daz through the contact form (they'll probably add one). Can you give an example of one?

  • Interactive licenses are on a per-item basis - so no, a G8 license doesn't apply to clothing. If a DO item doesn't have an interactive license available on its page, maybe try asking Daz through the contact form (they'll probably add one). Can you give an example of one?

    That's what I thought.

    This one for example: https://www.daz3d.com/agate-noir-for-genesis-8-females

    Although, it's unfortunate but the only thing that's useful from Daz for games purpose is the actual base mesh. Hair and clothing have way too much polys and the texture size is too big. Sure, there are ways to mitigate, but it's better to just make new clothes by yourself at this point.

    It's quite a shame, really, that they got rid of their "Game Developer License". It was nice when you could pay for the license once and use everything without worries. The way it works now, just by playing around with what we have purchased and the freebies you lose track of all the items and well, you don't know which one you have the license for and which ones you're illegally using.

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