Runtime DNA Merges With Daz 3D

DAZ_ann0314

lx said:

I think it's quite complicated because if the skimpwear sells best then you make that, but then if you only make that it really narrows in the options of your customer base and it's not long before you're thought of as only creating that sort of thing for that sort of market. I would argue that poser-type things are already very niche and if Daz wants to increase its customer base by any real amount, they're going to have to branch out into offering things for more groups. Of course it's not as simple as simply making other items, but it's something to keep in mind.

I wouldn't disagree with that  Honestly, sorting out what a majority will be happy with is complicated IMHO LOL And I do think it is worth branching out or trying things that potentially haven't done well in the past on occasion because sometimes it's a matter of "what it was specifically" vs " the general style it was". People may like everyday clothing but perhaps did not like "that specific" outfit. And you can paint yourself into a specific genre doing it so much people become unsure about how well you do something else. Personally, I wish there was some solid way to be able to gauge how well something will be received but if there is a way, I've not personally found it other than going by plain ole trial and error and then crunching numbers

TesseractSpace

lx said:

GumpOtaku said:

mtl1 said:

GumpOtaku said:

mtl1 said:

I'm just laughing at the whole DAZ 'conservative' thing. Much of the content here is already cheesecakey and borderline NSFW. There's plenty of grimdark/grotesque/monstrous content, but that amount is understandably less for a variety of reasons: sales, PAs/creators, community requests, platform, and so forth.

 

This is the most rational post about this. This is just selective outrage with a little bit of valid concerns mixed in.

Thanks!

I mean, I could tongue-in-cheek rant about stores being anti-scifi because of the relative lack of scifi content, but the genre in reality is limited by market forces, IP, and so forth. The same applies to so-called 'dark' content, because, like scifi, horror take a lot of effort to get right and the monetary value to the creator is very small when selling on any amateur/hobbyist storefront. Contract work, pro-level work, or even designing game assets are always more lucrative when it comes to "maximum effort!" products.

 

Yeah. I mean last I checked, aren't there a good amount of folks whining about skimpware? DAZ is hardly conservative, rather going through the wisdom of the market. Selling content is priority #1, followed by making the people happy.

Technically the complaints aren't so much that the skimpware exists; just that it's almost all of the clothing content.

Things like http://www.daz3d.com/fire-hazard-for-genesis-2-female-s have their place - but if you wanted a firefighting scene, it'd be little help and as far as I know there aren't really any outfits at Daz that would help. Ironically, males seem to get only practical outfits and barely anything skimpy~

Sad thing is if the pants morphed closed, the top was replaced with a tank top or t shirt, and a heavy jacket added it'd be a proper practical set.

Luv Lee

GumpOtaku said:

mtl1 said:

GumpOtaku said:

mtl1 said:

I'm just laughing at the whole DAZ 'conservative' thing. Much of the content here is already cheesecakey and borderline NSFW. There's plenty of grimdark/grotesque/monstrous content, but that amount is understandably less for a variety of reasons: sales, PAs/creators, community requests, platform, and so forth.

 

This is the most rational post about this. This is just selective outrage with a little bit of valid concerns mixed in.

Thanks!

I mean, I could tongue-in-cheek rant about stores being anti-scifi because of the relative lack of scifi content, but the genre in reality is limited by market forces, IP, and so forth. The same applies to so-called 'dark' content, because, like scifi, horror take a lot of effort to get right and the monetary value to the creator is very small when selling on any amateur/hobbyist storefront. Contract work, pro-level work, or even designing game assets are always more lucrative when it comes to "maximum effort!" products.

 

Yeah. I mean last I checked, aren't there a good amount of folks whining about skimpware? DAZ is hardly conservative, rather going through the wisdom of the market. Selling content is priority #1, followed by making the people happy.

GumpOtaku said:

 

GumpOtaku said:

 

GumpOtaku said:

\\

GumpOtaku said:

 

GumpOtaku said:

I get you guys are saying but you have to understand that while DAZ has a rigth to sell whatever content they want,  for whatever reason, folks like me went to altenative sites like RDNA  for the style of art/designs we required.  DAZ's dark style content  just doesn't suit what I need storyline wise so I went to off sites. Now,  those of us who had to do that worry about not finding what we need in the future, because, as noted, it isn't a big thing here.  Whatever the reason, it is a concern, esp for those who make some money with it, like I do.    I think ppl are lamenting the conservative outlooks/restrictions not so much skimpiness of attire. I do have to agree there though. I have a character who works at a univeristy and most office attire on DAZ is more DEBBIE DOES THE PRINCIPAL than Campus realistic.

 

lx_2807502

I guess most of us just don't understand what the RDNA people mean by "dark." Is it mostly that the Daz store is seen as overly curated, i.e. they aren't willing to sell things they think won't be hits?

Serene Night

There are so many reasons content may or may not sell I think it is difficult to make assumptions about buying habits based on sales. Price is a big factor I think. 

As far as dark goes it isn't my bag. I'm sure scifi isn't other people's bag. 

mjc1016

DaWaterRat said:

A cynical part of me thinks that's part of the 2 year development cycle... because they haven't quite exhausted Skimpwear options before getting to start all over again with a new figure... :p

I had to chuckle at that...

DAZ_ann0314

*Smacks self*

I seem to have attributed to steering this thread off topic a bit which was not my intention. Sorry about that. We probably should get this thread back to the general topic of the merger and any questions that relate specifically to that topic.

(Moderator Moderates self, news at 11 PM )

Khory

Lx I would guess it has more to do with creative direction. There just are not many PA's (were not?) who are properly inspired or have the right skill sets to properly do "dark". It seriously doubt it is because people don't think it would be a hit. Look at Rawn. He does some darkish stuff and his things are big hits. I think that one of the most exciting things about the merger will be the potential to have new blood that has new perspective. I hope and really expect it to improve us all.

Luv Lee

lx said:

I guess most of us just don't understand what the RDNA people mean by "dark." Is it mostly that the Daz store is seen as overly curated, i.e. they aren't willing to sell things they think won't be hits?

I just think the point  of  the concern is they won't be able get what they want , for instance, I am not into vampires, zombies, werewovles and the like, so I looked for really unique dark stuff--RDNA had a ton of that.  In other words, it was easier to get what we wanted in that realm when there was another place ot go.  The expectation is that the reasons  DAZ didn't provide such stuff won't change--so whatever the reason, legitimate though it may be, we won't have access ot those things anymore. Dude, that's a bummer, but whacha gonna do? Sorry to keep straying off topic...my last two cents.

 

lx_2807502

Luv Lee said:

lx said:

I guess most of us just don't understand what the RDNA people mean by "dark." Is it mostly that the Daz store is seen as overly curated, i.e. they aren't willing to sell things they think won't be hits?

I just think the point  of  the concern is they won't be able get what they want , for instance, I am not into vampires, zombies, werewovles and the like, so I looked for really unique dark stuff--RDNA had a ton of that.  In other words, it was easier to get what we wanted in that realm when there was another place ot go.  The expectation is that the reasons  DAZ didn't provide such stuff won't change--so whatever the reason, legitimate though it may be, we won't have access ot those things anymore. Dude, that's a bummer, but whacha gonna do? Sorry to keep straying off topic...my last two cents.

 

Yeah, that makes sense.

I would say that's on topic though: we got distracted by what content is specifically being made and why, but customer concerns over what will or won't be sold anymore is a valid issue for the merger.

Luv Lee

lx said:

Luv Lee said:

lx said:

I guess most of us just don't understand what the RDNA people mean by "dark." Is it mostly that the Daz store is seen as overly curated, i.e. they aren't willing to sell things they think won't be hits?

I just think the point  of  the concern is they won't be able get what they want , for instance, I am not into vampires, zombies, werewovles and the like, so I looked for really unique dark stuff--RDNA had a ton of that.  In other words, it was easier to get what we wanted in that realm when there was another place ot go.  The expectation is that the reasons  DAZ didn't provide such stuff won't change--so whatever the reason, legitimate though it may be, we won't have access ot those things anymore. Dude, that's a bummer, but whacha gonna do? Sorry to keep straying off topic...my last two cents.

 

Yeah, that makes sense.

I would say that's on topic though: we got distracted by what content is specifically being made and why, but customer concerns over what will or won't be sold anymore is a valid issue for the merger.

It's a hard spot to be in to be sure, trying to figure out what will satisfy the majority...I think it will even out in a few months when the dust settles and  we see what we are left with.  Thanks for  chewing it over though--it always helps :-)

Kerya

TesseractSpace said:

Greybro said:

evilded777 said:

I am dumbfounded.

I hope it works well for all parties involved.

But I still remember Poser-Pros.

I'm glad they didn't delete this post because it expresses my sentiments exactly. I'm a user and buying customer of both sites. I hope RDNA doesn't get the PPros treatment. I really enjoyed that site's forum and store.

Daz bought PoserPros in 2005. PoserPros stayed open till 2008 when the store was sort of migrated to ArtZone. From what I can tell the forums and galleries were around in archive form till 2010. Yet I keep seeing this reaction like PPros was shut down overnight or something.

There was the promise that we will be able to download ... or contact Gary and get downloads ... well, it is about promises, not about the timeframe.

Shozai

I wish you the best inside the new Family :)

ColemanRugh

Congrats Syyd, Colm and Traveler... and all RDNA folks!! You all have set the bar high with your quality works over the years!!

lx_2807502

Okay well their releases certainly seem to be starting out on a strong foot.

jakiblue

I have that Ultra Genesis Studio Vol 1 - iray lights, and htey are FANTASTIC!

and gosh, do my eyes deceive me?? is that an actual POSER ONLYproduct there??? Nooooo can't be. I mean, the merger means that DAZ is going to kill every single poser product out there! Must be a store glitch. 

/s 

lx said:

Okay well their releases certainly seem to be starting out on a strong foot.

 

Cris Palomino

jakiblue said:

I have that Ultra Genesis Studio Vol 1 - iray lights, and htey are FANTASTIC!

and gosh, do my eyes deceive me?? is that an actual POSER ONLYproduct there??? Nooooo can't be. I mean, the merger means that DAZ is going to kill every single poser product out there! Must be a store glitch. 

/s 

lx said:

Okay well their releases certainly seem to be starting out on a strong foot.

 

Steve said:  We will be migrating old Poser content, and accepting new Poser content.  The store there will be going away over a period of months. 

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1019922/#Comment_1019922

SissyB

I'm not really happy about that but nobody told us before the officiel announcement or asked us our opinion... so the show must go on... the future will tell us... Fingers crossed...

Linton

SissyB said:

I'm not really happy about that but nobody told us before the officiel announcement or asked us our opinion... so the show must go on... the future will tell us... Fingers crossed...

Could be worse in that the entire RDNA site shut down permanently instead.

jakiblue

Cris, I was being sarcastic *grin* I know poser stuff is coming over and there will be more poser stuff created by RDNA peeps. Just had to get my snark in there.  

Cris Palomino said:

jakiblue said:

I have that Ultra Genesis Studio Vol 1 - iray lights, and htey are FANTASTIC!

and gosh, do my eyes deceive me?? is that an actual POSER ONLYproduct there??? Nooooo can't be. I mean, the merger means that DAZ is going to kill every single poser product out there! Must be a store glitch. 

/s 

lx said:

Okay well their releases certainly seem to be starting out on a strong foot.

 

Steve said:  We will be migrating old Poser content, and accepting new Poser content.  The store there will be going away over a period of months. 

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1019922/#Comment_1019922

 

Cris Palomino

jakiblue said:

Cris, I was being sarcastic *grin* I know poser stuff is coming over and there will be more poser stuff created by RDNA peeps. Just had to get my snark in there.  

Cris Palomino said:

jakiblue said:

I have that Ultra Genesis Studio Vol 1 - iray lights, and htey are FANTASTIC!

and gosh, do my eyes deceive me?? is that an actual POSER ONLYproduct there??? Nooooo can't be. I mean, the merger means that DAZ is going to kill every single poser product out there! Must be a store glitch. 

/s 

lx said:

Okay well their releases certainly seem to be starting out on a strong foot.

 

Steve said:  We will be migrating old Poser content, and accepting new Poser content.  The store there will be going away over a period of months. 

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1019922/#Comment_1019922

 

Just in case they didn't get it was sarcasm. ;)

mjc1016

Cris Palomino said:

Just in case they didn't get it was sarcasm. ;)

I've always said forum software needs <sarc> tags...

 

Cris Palomino

Please remain civil and address topics and not other members.  Take a moment to reread your posts before posting to assess if you have strayed into addressing "you" as opposed to a general comment without accusations.  People have opinions and can express them without accusing anyone of anything.  We understand that there are concerns and fears.  Calm discussion allows room for differing opinions without adding heat to the words.  

selias19

Richard Haseltine said:

There is a Figure filter you could use to restrict the search to certain figures, perhaps one of the bokmarklet hackers coudl make one that would simply exclude Genesises.

But what if you are searching for a vehicle or an environment. Many of those have no figure compatibility at all.

A software filter would be much easier to use, not only for Poser users but also for Carrara or Bryce users.

LocusSolus

[french]   BIENVENUE A BORD !

rippme99

Might be silly thing but does that mean all RuntimeDNA figures will now be fully dressed in the promos ?

You know one thing that is nice about buying at other stores is that I don't need underwear piercing glasses to know how a character looks undressed, especially concerning full body tatooes and such.

jakiblue

Why is everyone so determined to believe that a merger between RDNA and DAZ means poser support is going out the window? RDNA is FULL of poser products - they were primarily a very poser orientated store, and it was only recently with the advent of iray and genesis 3 that we started to see more DS compatible products there. There are still gazillions of vendors there who do poser only products. There are still gazillion of poser only products there. They will be coming over here to the daz store. Do people honestly think that Syyd and Co said yes to a merger where DAZ said "oh btw, we dont' want any Poser products at all from your store and your vendors that come over here won't be allowed to do poser products either"?? 

Ok, so RDNA galleries were a bit more lenient on nudity etc than DAZ galleries are - well, there's DeviantArt who are also very very lenient on nudity and gore so art can be uploaded there. People will follow you if they liked your art and will look at it there. The official Poser forum at RDNA? Well, I'm fairly certain that it will turn up elsewhere so everyone can check it out. 

I just don't quite get the vitriol that is being thrown around. I mean, I am far from a DAZ Fangirl - I'm one of the first to jump up and down and complain, but to be honest, I can't see anything wrong with this merger. I think it'll increase the store products, we'll start getting "different" and possibly more unique and original products in here, and with a bit of luck, DAZ will buy some of them outright so the DAZ Originals will start consisting of something other than skimpy fantasy outfits with stiletto heels. 

 

FSMCDesigns

larsmidnatt said:

Masterstroke said:

Not that happy. If you merge two shops, you won't get a bigger shop. No, you'll loose one shop.

Exactly. Good for business I am sure. And I don't hate them for it. RNDA tends to have more interesting products than here at Daz.

But Daz is a very sterile convervative draconian site, and RDNA was always very expressive, creative and artistic.  To people who say daz has dark themes, I think you are missing a lot. It's not about indivudual crummy products, it's the entire feel and support for themes in a genuine way. RNDA had some great lines on their site. RNDA was never scared of embracing ART, Daz still is :/

I do wish them luck on the merger. But I really can't find it in me to actively support Daz or any of their partners anymore. If I can't be expressive on an "art" site/forum and only expected to be a dumb consumer, there is no way I can really invest in that treatment. Even if some of the partners are some of my most cherished and respected artists in this niche.

I still render here and there, still have a few years left in my plat membership. I'll be around. Maybe I'll be tempted by something unique, brave and exciting :)

Agreed, DAZ is way too conservative in many areas,I enjoy going to RDNA and seeing the new products, the sales, the forums and the overall creative feel of the site, it will be missed. I hope DAZ adopts some of the RDNA features and "vibe" to go along with this merger

Great, one less store I can buy characters from since there are no nude promos at DAZ.

andya_b341b7c5f5 said:

Hmph.  Less competition, less variety, not good for the marketplace.  Not seeing an upside for customers, unless you really need to install all your content through DIM or Connect.

Agreed, the more sites to choose from the better IMO

fred9803

rippme99 said:

Might be silly thing but does that mean all RuntimeDNA figures will now be fully dressed in the promos ?

You know one thing that is nice about buying at other stores is that I don't need underwear piercing glasses to know how a character looks undressed, especially concerning full body tatooes and such.

I reckon Daz will not change their policy on that matter. Everything will remain PG-13 in their promos. Buy some x-ray specs.

RavenMoonDesigns

jakiblue said:

Why is everyone so determined to believe that a merger between RDNA and DAZ means poser support is going out the window? RDNA is FULL of poser products - they were primarily a very poser orientated store, and it was only recently with the advent of iray and genesis 3 that we started to see more DS compatible products there. There are still gazillions of vendors there who do poser only products. There are still gazillion of poser only products there. They will be coming over here to the daz store. Do people honestly think that Syyd and Co said yes to a merger where DAZ said "oh btw, we dont' want any Poser products at all from your store and your vendors that come over here won't be allowed to do poser products either"?? 

Ok, so RDNA galleries were a bit more lenient on nudity etc than DAZ galleries are - well, there's DeviantArt who are also very very lenient on nudity and gore so art can be uploaded there. People will follow you if they liked your art and will look at it there. The official Poser forum at RDNA? Well, I'm fairly certain that it will turn up elsewhere so everyone can check it out. 

I just don't quite get the vitriol that is being thrown around. I mean, I am far from a DAZ Fangirl - I'm one of the first to jump up and down and complain, but to be honest, I can't see anything wrong with this merger. I think it'll increase the store products, we'll start getting "different" and possibly more unique and original products in here, and with a bit of luck, DAZ will buy some of them outright so the DAZ Originals will start consisting of something other than skimpy fantasy outfits with stiletto heels. 

 

If you've read the RDNA forum you may understand a bit more... alot of people are posting that they refuse to buy from DAZ, period. Even if it means not supporting their fav vendors and keeping Poser content flowing. My personal fear is that they hold to their word and don't buy the Poser content that is released here. Because if the Poser content isn't making DAZ money, even from the top RDNA Poser vendors, then Poser support goes bye-bye. It's what happened when Genesis first came out.

Me, I'll buy from anywhere if I can afford it and if it's something I want and can use. I haven't been burned by any store...so it's all good on my end. I just worry that the support from the customers won't be there...and then the support from the vendors dries up.