You've been heard. Response re: 4.9 and Encryption
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I also don't see anything negative regarding this whole Connect thing...I embrace change generally and I like these changes made in 4.9. I don't see it effecting what little I buy just the way I buy and install. I love the idea of not leaving DAZ Studio to purchase items. Mind you I don't moan about much, never have really I can't see the point not when my favourite piece of software is free. :)
If you only shop at Daz, and/or don't mind your libraries being split in two (or are willing to redownload all your things to move them to the Connect library) then Conenct will be just fine. The problem is that a lot of those if's don't cover a number of users.
As for the store windowlette in Studio, if you are a person who purchases items via seeing a thumbnail or limited info and hits buy, then it'll be handy there too. Personally I (and I know a lot of regulars) look at the new release page each day and which sales are on, what items are in fast grab, wishlist things and only purchase them when it's a better deal, etc. Unless something has changed, you can't do any of this in the Studio store (or view large images.) Meanwhile opening a webpage is pretty easy to get the much better proper store that isn't in a tiny corner of another pane. (If the store got massive upgrades late in the beta then ignore this.)
agree to 100%
For me encryption and connect is no problem, if DAZ goes the way just to offer encrypted and connect only products I will not buy any more stuff here. That´s it.
Yeah I only shop at DAZ3D generally. Yes I have my content split up DIM only and then everything else, like freebies and a few other store items. I used to have everything categorised in DS2 and 3 but after redoing it a few times I gave up and split all the free and other store items into separate folders like, Animals, Buildings, Characters, Environments all the way down to Weapons, I think 30 odd folders. I can find everything no problem.
Good points but I don't really have an issue with the rest as I can open up the store web page to look at the item in more depth etc.
I mostly come to the forum to report an issue or to "lobby" for a certain feature.
If I am happy about the situation there is no reason to post.
In all the time I spent on the DAZ forum the lesson I learned is that trying to reason with people who are against something is in most cases not going to change their mind.
@ DAZ Connect
DAZ Connect is exactly what I have been waiting for since 2011. Finally I can search, install and update directly inside DAZ Studio. I am happy that DAZ3D is providing a category system that orders the files in a logicial way for me so I do not have to invest time doing that myself.
I want to click on buy, install and start creating images. And DAZ Connect let's me do that.
@ DRM
- The current form of encryption does not in any way interfere with the ability to export geometry to other applications.
- It seems reasonable that artists want to protect their hard work instead of having it uploaded to file sharing sites within hours after the release.
- - -
Bottom line:
To me it seems that the same people are voicing the exact same arguments in countless threads over and over.
But please do not expect those users who are happy with DAZ Studio 4.9, DAZ Connect and DRM in its current implementation to invest time to argue with those users who are not.
Those users who are happy with the situation may be busy rendering...
Right there's no reason every user should have an issue - everything will work fine for lots of people.
You don't need to argue with anyone. What I'm saying is that someone who isn't actively saying no on a forum isn't necessarily saying yes. There's more to it than that.
It is the ole adage linvanchene "you can please some of the people some of the time" but with that I am not going to force my opinion (not saying you are btw :) ) on to anyone I just don't see the fuss that others see. Now if it works in halting piracy for a time then I am all for it. But I do agree that nothing seems to be pirate proof these days.
and by the looks it is. I haven't updated yet due work but as soon as I have the projects finsihed I will be. I tried out the beta to give myself an idea on what was coming.
Examining sales figures is the best method DAZ can use to measure true feeling. If a significant proportion of customers truly feel that DRM is unacceptable then they'll not buy encrypted products. DAZ will notice that very quickly.
In the long term that is obviously correct. It's also posible that by then it may be too late for Steve Spencer to come up with an alternative strategy, but best not to speculate on that one.
In the event of encrypted content not selling well enough, the most obvious alternative strategy is simply to not release any more encrypted content.
I think what others have said regarding the motivation of DRM, ie it is meant to stop casual copying, is probably closer to the truth. DAZ can not stop the hardened pirates, and I am sure it is well aware of that. However DRM can stop friends and relatives that swap content by emailing each other zips they bought, the kind of people that would feel no guilt about handing a friend a book they had already read. These people would often not (or would not know how) to look for pirated content, but the DRM as implemented should put a brake on casual copying.
Remember that when 4.9 beta first arrived the idea was that connect would encrypt everything, and I suspect that is the way they wanted it, even for existing content which is highly pirated already. Again this would stop casual copying of older content. It was only after the outcry in the beta forum they changed their mind on that.
Naturally the amount of casually copying that goes on, and how much that represents lost sales, is even more difficult to guess than the losses through pirate sites.
I know there are people who feel that the objectors are few in number, but if that was the case DAZ would have ploughed through with their original plan, and not made the number of amendments it has to placate such a small number of people. I have been posting on this forum for a couple of years now, and I recognise a lot of the names from regular posters. Quite a lot of those regulars appear to be opposed to this, more so than other controversies that have come along recently (for example the release of Genesis 3, which many people thought arrived too soon). How far these regulars represent the general non-posting user base is impossible to say. Everyone likes to claim that they speak up for the so called "Silent Majority", but the truth is no one can, for the obvious reason, that they are silent!
This is basically the point of the things I've been saying. There are many statements by people on here and also changes made by Daz that have been claimed to be for reasons that there's simply no way to calculate. You can't raise prices over lost sales that you can't actually count having lost. You can't say that anyone who isn't actively complaining about an issue approves of it. Saying that DRM won't stop piracy doesn't mean that you must give up and do absolutely nothing. The truth is there are a lot of questions and issues that no one has any way to obtain the answers to, but are ploughing on as if they can.
Everything doesn't have to be black and white. It's okay to not know things. It may be simpler to put everything in a good or bad box, but it creates a whole lot of issues when you do.
Yes, obviously. The point I was making is the potential impact of lost sales and damaged reputation on the company's bottom line by then. Anyway, Steve Spencer seems to have it all under control so I'm sure there's no need to speculate further on that point.
Havos: I strongly believe that Daz can't possibly know how many 'casual pirates,' people who pirate but don't ever check warez sites but just trade back and forth, exist.
I think you have too much faith in logic and reason.
Now, mind you, I DO think piracy hurts sales. There are people who will never pirate, there are people who will pirate just for kicks, and a whole range of people in between. Logically, it's obvious there are some numbers of people who will, say, avoid piracy because they can reasonably afford content and they have some fears or reservations. This middle range of people might swing either way, depending on stuff like 'eh, Daz annoys me' or 'eh, encrypted content is annoying.'
The thing is, unless one has a magic ball capable of perusing the multiverse to see behavior and sales across dimensions, there's nothing but faith and circumstantial evidence to go on.
Encryption WILL cut down on some piracy. Even if it's, like, 3 guys who decide to buy content rather than deal with pirate sites. The question is, how much will that save Daz, compared to the costs of implementing Encryption? I mean, that's manpower and development time, and QA, and so forth -- encryption isn't a simple 'oh, let's switch on encryption magically.'
Also, how many lost sales from people going 'encryption?? Nuts to that.'
I have no idea what kind of lost sales are going to occur. Could be a lot, more likely to not be so much... but I don't know. Neither does Daz. More importantly, Daz has no idea how much Encryption will save them, but past history of DRM suggests it's not going to be a lot.
I go back to what I said: this is a decision clearly driven by non-engineers. I would bet any amount of money that engineers opposed this, and would much rather be working on piles of bugs and new features.
As such, there's no point making rational arguments. If it was a decision driven by facts and reason, it wouldn't have happened.
So, again, we're not going to see a change until evidence is overwhelming that this is a bad thing.
Oh, and as for the 'checking your receipt'... yeah, but we already have that.
We have a store, and security, and accounts, and login. We have bank security to protect our cards and validate purchases.
There already is a bunch of store-like security related to purchasing on Daz.
But the analogy breaks down, because when we walk out of the store with donuts, we don't have the capacity to chuckle and go over to a Replicator and make 100 copies to sell cheaply to other people.
I will point out that people have been dealing with how to solve piracy issues in novel and interesting ways. Things like Patreon and Kickstarter exist to help solidify support. If people pirate Kickstartered content, that sucks, but it provides a measure of community and support.
DRM is a product of old school thinking. Again, a sign of corporate thinking.
Are you sure you didn't misinterprete what he said? In any case, your interpretation is very different from mine.
What I read is that he's blaming those probably few costumers who are involved in piracy at the expense of DAZ, PA's and all the honest customers [who may have to pay higher prices because of the loss (assuming there is one, which DAZ apparently do), as well as being possible suspects because no one knows for sure which of the customers are the pirates] . Maybe he should have said "if some people" or "if certain people" or whatever rather than "if people" but from the context it should be rather easy to understand what he means, IMO.
As for chasing down the pirates it is well known that this can be very difficult if they reside in other countries, especially certain ones, for different reasons, which has also been addressed elsewhere here.
And seeing a downturn in sales figures doesn't tell you why the sales figures are falling, leading to the possibility (many paying attention here for the last few years would say "probability") of misinterpretation of the cause/s. Poor sales / high returns on the Detective Bundle are a case in point -- is it because of the encryption? Because "male products don't sell"? Because of the initial confusion on if it was/wasn't encrypted products? Because the encryption was solved in a few hours and cracked versions are currently available on pirate sites? (So we've been told, I don't go there.) Or are we going to be assured that sales on the Detective Bundle have been excellent so encryption/DRM obviously isn't a major issue for any but the "vocal few", a dubious assertion that can't be directly refuted because we don't have access to the sales figures?
For years, after every unpopular decision, DAZ has assured us that they're doing better than ever so obiously they're doing the right thing, while also sounding warnings that they have to do whatever the latest (and the next, and the next, and the next) nastiness is to keep the business afloat. There are plenty of people on these forums both able and willing to believe both simultaneously. It must be merely a personal failing that I'm not one of them.
[edited for spelling & punctuation -- shouldn't post pre-coffee]
Steve, how would the hypothetical scenario of Studio becoming a subcription based service fit in with that?
Obviously customers who didn't want to adopt this hypothetical subscription Studio could still access their encrypted content via their older version of Studio, at least as long as their computer lasts and/or you continue to activate the decryption in that older version. But if they, for whatever reason, end up having to use the hypothetical subscription Studio, then they'll end up having to pay again (continuously) to decrypt their previous purchases.
In this hypothetical scenario, the letter of your agreement with the escrow company might be met - yet customers still end up having to pay again.
(note to mods, I am discussing a hypothetical situation - not presenting speculation as fact)
Of course, everything is open to interpretation based upon the reader's initial bias - that stands to reason. You're free to interpret it how you see fit, just like I am. To me, what he said basically boiled down to "if people were not illegally distributing our products, then we wouldn't have to do this to you all". Now, that implies that we bear some responsibility for what those people he mentions are doing when, of course, we are not responsible in the slightest. We have nothing to do with it at all.
Its like when a teacher says to their pupils, "some of you were being rowdy (but they don't know who), so I'm going to keep the whole class behind today as punishment", as if the rest of the class could possibly have prevented the rowdiness. Punishing a whole group because you can't or won't identify the real culprits is not justice - its laziness.
For what it's worth, I have no problem being treated like a potential criminal by being subject to security measures. I mean, I already deal with needing to log into my account, and verifying personal information, and using a card that is checked for veracity.
That's fine.
My problem is entirely that it costs customers and Daz time, effort, and chaos, in exchange for nothing remotely like the security Daz is suggesting.
Meh my teachers actually pulled that crap which made me miss busses and trains home across town
Hello,
I use Octane Renderer, but do not use the Octane plugin. I simply export my figures and props as .obj and import into Octane. Will I still be able to do this with encrypted products?
One: all the products you list work on the content inside DS, they don't access the .duf file and therefore they are not affected by encryption. There are a few scripts which do read a directory of .duf files, I think, and those would be a different matter (some simply apply selected files to the scene, and would need a change in the way they select the files installed with Connect but would otherwise work; others may actually directly process the file contents and they would need more extensive changes to work with encrypted content).
Two: the "both" refers to Iray settings optimised for 4.8 and Iray settings optimised for 4.9+, nothing in that thread is about 3Delight settings.
yes because the products are not encrypted after they have been installed.
Thanks a bunch Szark!
my pleasure