Encryption discussions go here

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  • lxlx Posts: 2,991
    edited January 2016

    There's a whole lot of this trying to trap every post under any tiny grammatical point, and it's all so irrelevent. Obviously if the encrypted system was being built it was going to be used, and obviously testing it on release doesn't mean promises (whatever those are) are being broken.

    I asked this in the other thread that got locked, but what I'm really interested in is how the encrypted sales went compared to their nonencrypted similar items, how they sold when they weren't being offered as freebies or cheap items, if that's even enough to go on for gauging the popularity or usefulnesss, etc. What the plans are going forward, which types of content if not all will be encrypted, if prices will change, if products might be offered in both formats for varying prices (discount for encryption) etc.

    Hopefully this coming soon (tm) announcement answers at least some of this, but it seems not really useful to close down most of the threads because of an announcement of an announcement, and then leave us sitting around waiting with nowhere to continue are wild speculations.

    Post edited by lx on
  • ByrdieByrdie Posts: 1,592

    Announcement is here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/70624/you-ve-been-heard-response-re-4-9-and-encryption#latest

    Good news: Daz is listening to our concerns and are proposing some solutions. Bad news: They're keeping DRM/encryption.

  • frogimusfrogimus Posts: 200

    At least they have a solution for a "master key" if they ever abdicate their responsibility to authorize our computers. Personally, I'm only shopping open-content items for the near future. That may change once I see how they implement the things outlined by DAZ_Steve. I want the ability to use my stuff in Poser without jumping through hoops.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,494
    edited January 2016

    not formatting correctly - so deleted; will try again.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,494
    edited January 2016
    DAZ_Jon said:
    hphoenix said:
    Chohole said:

    Daz 3D has stated that it has no intention in applying encryption retroactively.

    Sorry, but after it ALSO stated "...no plans for encrypted only content...." and two months later it was already changed.........you'll forgive me if that assurance isn't very convincing.

     

    So, this seems like a big misconception or repetition of either user statements or casual statements that were later being clarified by the one I made at the start of this thread. This statement clarifying what our plans were with encrypted content was actually the first post of this thread was posted here.

    • There are no current products planned for release as Daz Connect only, meaning only available encrypted. We don’t have a firm date on when 4.9 is going to ship because we’re still in Beta. It will definitely happen though, and the rate it happens is going to be dependent on a number of factors we’ll keep an eye on to make the transition as smooth as possible.

    And then also this statement..

    • All previously released content will always be available unencrypted. 

    If we haven't stuck to what I stated in the first post of this thread (made on the 5th of November), or feel that statements from Daz (meaning an employee so having the DAZ_ in front of their name) from that remark onward have been unclear or ambigious or misleading, please point them out and I'll be happy to look into them and address them.

    My post below - still not formatting correctly

    Well considering the number of deleted and changed posts, it is hard to be sure what actually was said; I did say doing such things can have a greater impact than leaving them unaltered.

    Of course, this too will get deleted.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • lxlx Posts: 2,991

    Putting a master key in the hands of a third party is a good step toward providing security for users buying encrypted products. I still don't see any real reason to buy encrypted products in the first place though. While I understand the value being provided by the Daz store and the hard work that goes into making products, they're still really expensive compared to other forms of entertainment for a hobby. Encryption vastly reduces the value of that item in my eyes.

    If I'm going to buy an encrypted item designed for a hobbyist to buy, it'd either have to be around 75% off current main prices (with some sort of no commercial use clause) or it needs to do something that no other similar items offer.

    It's not about DRM being good or evil; it's about what I see as worth purchasing beyond what I already have.

  • frogimusfrogimus Posts: 200
    lx said:

    Putting a master key in the hands of a third party is a good step toward providing security for users buying encrypted products. I still don't see any real reason to buy encrypted products in the first place though. While I understand the value being provided by the Daz store and the hard work that goes into making products, they're still really expensive compared to other forms of entertainment for a hobby. Encryption vastly reduces the value of that item in my eyes.

    If I'm going to buy an encrypted item designed for a hobbyist to buy, it'd either have to be around 75% off current main prices (with some sort of no commercial use clause) or it needs to do something that no other similar items offer.

    It's not about DRM being good or evil; it's about what I see as worth purchasing beyond what I already have.

    Pretty much my feelings on the matter. With what I've saved and what I've returned since 4.9 went live, I'm very close to a shiny new upgrade for Poser.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,991
    frogimus said:
    lx said:

    Putting a master key in the hands of a third party is a good step toward providing security for users buying encrypted products. I still don't see any real reason to buy encrypted products in the first place though. While I understand the value being provided by the Daz store and the hard work that goes into making products, they're still really expensive compared to other forms of entertainment for a hobby. Encryption vastly reduces the value of that item in my eyes.

    If I'm going to buy an encrypted item designed for a hobbyist to buy, it'd either have to be around 75% off current main prices (with some sort of no commercial use clause) or it needs to do something that no other similar items offer.

    It's not about DRM being good or evil; it's about what I see as worth purchasing beyond what I already have.

    Pretty much my feelings on the matter. With what I've saved and what I've returned since 4.9 went live, I'm very close to a shiny new upgrade for Poser.

    I'm basically putting what I'm saving on content into software too.
    1. Donate to Blender
    2. Marvelous Designer
    3. Substance Live (now there's a good rent type deal.)

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,241

    Like I said in the other thread... does anyone really expect them to react to forum posts? The volume of complaints here bears no strong correlation to actual problems.

     

    If Daz is smart (and they seem smart), they will release a fairly random list of Encryption-only and regular content, and see how each do. After a large number of cases, it should be clear whether the protestations actually amount to anything.

    I don't expect them to heel turn after spending this much work on it without some clear indication. Our commentary about the problems of DRM are decades old, so it's not like we've told them something they never heard before.

     

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 7,934
    edited January 2016

    .

     

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,948
    icecrmn said:
    Pendraia said:

    If you said that a few years back I would have agreed but now for me at least that's not true...my money is spent for the most part here or at the Hive but I also spend quite a bit these days at RDNA and Rendo...in fact they have some really good stuff for Gen3 and the other figures I use. RDNA just released a beautiful figure for Gen3 female it's in their current newsletter. I don't really buy into the iconic characters though all the pro packs and even the starter packs are just too expensive especially with the Australian dollar where it is. Years back I bought stuff as it was released and owned pretty much everything but when you have 100's of gb's of runtime you start to be a little bit more choosy or at least I have. I'm not sure that I will buy into encrypted content...

    :) 

    what I meant was that we will be installing and using the content in Studio first, not that the Daz Store would be the first choice for shopping.

    I shop at other stores , but I like whats being done here, so I shop here the most.We all have our individual preferences, and thats a good thing :)

    I'm planning on my tax returns this comming week, so I'm going to get to go on a shopping spree soon. Can't wait.

    I may miss out on some of the freebies that are available now, but I plan to get an annual membership, and the new dragon outfit for G3F is tops on my list.

    Fair enough all though some of us do use more than one rendering program I would use most things I buy in DS first also...and yes it is good that we have our own unique qualities...would be a boring world otherwise.

     

    lx said:

    I'm shopping here a lot less, mostly because I've already bought all the "essentials" to make whatever I want. Since then I've just been buying things I think look cool or fun, because the death of the Australian Dollar has made shopping online very painful. Buying encrypted content isn't appealing to me, but honestly I was already winding down on purchases. This'll just be another reason for me to tell myself "no, I don't actually need this new item." Though for me instead of going to other stores I've been learning other software to make my own things so that I don't have to wait for someone to release a thing I happen to need/want.

    I've been hit by the Australian dollar also...so I feel your pain. I've got to the point where I have a very large runtime and often will make my own things also...so I don't buy as much as I used to.

     

    jestmart said:

    You can read them but if it is not built in or there is an importer script/utility then the other 3D apps can't use them anyways.

    Most (not all I freely admit) can use object files which DS can export and I haven't used a modeller so far that doesn't allow importing of object files but it is much easier if there is a bridge between the program and studio...I love my goZ.

     

  • gregbogregbo Posts: 39
    hphoenix said:

    Well, I just started a list of the PAs who have released Encrypted DAZ-Connect ONLY content.  I won't be buying anything they release or sell at this point, even if it is non-encrypted.  I don't agree with DRM, in any shape or size, no matter what you call it.


    I do hope it was their decison, and not DAZs, to make these particular releases this way.  I would hate to punish them for the actions of their distributor.  But if they support it, well.......

     

    +1 Same here. Voting with my wallet and have been spending elsewhere. I for one will not purchase and use Encrypted content. I cannot really imagine any content that could be created and offered in this store that would entice me away from my stance on DRM. The only true way that you can let a company know you are displeased with how it is conducting itself is to take away the money.

  • Not only will I not buy encrypted content, I will not buy ANY content from DAZ until ALL plans for encryption are abandoned.  I used to spend $150-$300 in a typical month here (more if the sales were good), but my purchases have been exactly $0 for two months now.  Sorry to my favorite PAs, but you'll not get another dime from me as long as you sell products through a store that supports encryption, even if your content is not encrypted.  You see, DAZ doesn't trust me not to pirate, so I won't trust DAZ to not lock me out of my content someday.

    I promised the same thing at Cornucopia 3D when they began locking content to specific insallations of Vue.  I've never bought a single thing from their store - locked or unlocked.

    Although I am a Carrara user who has been anxiously awaiting the next release to finally get Genesis 3 support, I will NOT buy the new Carrara if your encryption plans are still in place.  I'll just spend a lot more time with Modo, which I should have done a long time ago.

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,195

    I bet G4F is released in a few months as encrypted only lol.

  • ByrdieByrdie Posts: 1,592
    edited February 2016

    G4F, no. But Vicky 8 and Michael 8, those I'd bet on most likely being encrypted. Probably won't work in Carrara or Poser or anything other than DS 5 -- when it comes out -- either. sad

    Post edited by Byrdie on
  • ncampncamp Posts: 345
    redhorse said:

    Not only will I not buy encrypted content, I will not buy ANY content from DAZ until ALL plans for encryption are abandoned.  I used to spend $150-$300 in a typical month here (more if the sales were good), but my purchases have been exactly $0 for two months now.  Sorry to my favorite PAs, but you'll not get another dime from me as long as you sell products through a store that supports encryption, even if your content is not encrypted.  You see, DAZ doesn't trust me not to pirate, so I won't trust DAZ to not lock me out of my content someday.

    I promised the same thing at Cornucopia 3D when they began locking content to specific insallations of Vue.  I've never bought a single thing from their store - locked or unlocked.

    Although I am a Carrara user who has been anxiously awaiting the next release to finally get Genesis 3 support, I will NOT buy the new Carrara if your encryption plans are still in place.  I'll just spend a lot more time with Modo, which I should have done a long time ago.

    Like Redhorse said, I am mainly a carrara user.  With the advent of the encrypted content, I have dropped my PC membership, upgraded to Poser 11 Pro, am buying more from other stores and have quit purchasing content here at DAZ.

    Good luck everyone.

    ncamp

  • ncamp said:

    Like Redhorse said, I am mainly a carrara user.  With the advent of the encrypted content, I have dropped my PC membership, upgraded to Poser 11 Pro, am buying more from other stores and have quit purchasing content here at DAZ.

    Good luck everyone.

    ncamp

    Thanks for the reminder, ncamp.  I just cancelled my Platinum Club subscription.

    Good luck DAZ and PAs getting that encrypted content to put food on your tables.

  • ByrdieByrdie Posts: 1,592

    Mine automatically renewed right in the middle of this kerfluffle, so for now I'll let it be. But it might be my last renewal too, since it's getting ever harder to see the benefits of sticking around. A pity, too, I've been here 12 years now.indecision

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,074
    edited February 2016

    Well, this might be a slightly better test of how deeply DAZ stepped in it — this week's freebie, the Toll Booth, is encrypted.

    I normally get every freebie, whether normal or PC. I like the look of this, I'm sure I'd be able to come up with scene ideas to use it in with very little bother.

    I won't be getting it, unless it comes out unencrypted.

    Edit: I just noticed, the "Artist:" slot only names DAZ, the actual creator is usually named. Coincidence, or yet another store page glitch, or...?

    Post edited by SpottedKitty on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,327

    Well, this might be a slightly better test of how deeply DAZ stepped in it — this week's freebie, the Toll Booth, is encrypted.

    I normally get every freebie, whether normal or PC. I like the look of this, I'm sure I'd be able to come up with scene ideas to use it in with very little bother.

    I won't be getting it, unless it comes out unencrypted.

    Edit: I just noticed, the "Artist:" slot only names DAZ, the actual creator is usually named. Coincidence, or yet another store page glitch, or...?

    Maybe none are stated because a few forumites have been calling for PAs appearing on encrypted contents to be black listed, a tactic I have to add I personally deeply disagree with, particularly on DO's where the PA has no say in what happens after they have been paid. Of course many DOs have no additional PAs listed, so there may be nothing to read into this at all.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,991
    edited February 2016

    Yeah DO items happen all the time.

    Jack posted this in another thread:

    Posted my comment here about the freebie - can we keep the discussion about it to either this one or that? Save the mods having to merge them later.. ;)

     

    Post edited by lx on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,494

    Well, this might be a slightly better test of how deeply DAZ stepped in it — this week's freebie, the Toll Booth, is encrypted.

    I normally get every freebie, whether normal or PC. I like the look of this, I'm sure I'd be able to come up with scene ideas to use it in with very little bother.

    I won't be getting it, unless it comes out unencrypted.

    Edit: I just noticed, the "Artist:" slot only names DAZ, the actual creator is usually named. Coincidence, or yet another store page glitch, or...?

    I bought it, and sent a ticket to refund all items on the purchase order.

  • Yeah, I noticed it as well though only when double-checking my cart prior to check-out. And I almost didn't - why encrypt a freebie?  But encrypt it they did, and removed it from my cart I did.

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 11,732
    edited February 2016

    Yeah, I noticed it as well though only when double-checking my cart prior to check-out. And I almost didn't - why encrypt a freebie?  But encrypt it they did, and removed it from my cart I did.

    Many have asked for a freebie to be encrypted so that they can check out how it works, how it does or does not hinder their workflow, etc.  They wanted this so they didn't have to spend any money on this experiment.  I'm not defending it, just answering your question "why encrypt a freebie?"

    I am out of the PC so I can't get it anyway.  I have not moved to 4.9, either. 

    Dana

    Oh, I just noticed it is free, not just free for PC.

    Post edited by DanaTA on
  • Gr00vusGr00vus Posts: 312

    No DRM tollbooth for me. I wonder if distributing a free tollbooth to test out DRM is just a coincidence.

  • Gr00vus said:

    No DRM tollbooth for me. I wonder if distributing a free tollbooth to test out DRM is just a coincidence.

    As I saidf in repsonse to your other comment, see http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1004408/#Comment_1004408 - this was a case of crossed wires (though there may be connect-only encrypted freebies to come, separate from the refgular PC+ freebies).

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,703

    No, as has been said, it was a mistake.  It is not actually meant to be encrypted.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,494
    Chohole said:

    No, as has been said, it was a mistake.  It is not actually meant to be encrypted.

    Sorry, but too late.

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 11,732
    Chohole said:

    No, as has been said, it was a mistake.  It is not actually meant to be encrypted.

    Has that been corrected?  I'll download it in DIM if it's available that way!

    Dana

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 18,344
    DanaTA said:
    Chohole said:

    No, as has been said, it was a mistake.  It is not actually meant to be encrypted.

    Has that been corrected?  I'll download it in DIM if it's available that way!

    Dana

    Yes, long since.

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