Fiddling with Iray skin settings...

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  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 13,486
    edited April 2015

    The problem, I finally realized, is that the surface is too smooth. Water on skin is often bumpy with droplets or whatnot.


    (I'm having reasonable results using base thin film, not top coat, and making sure the skin has decent bump values)

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • 8eos88eos8 Posts: 166
    edited December 1969

    That's interesting....I've been wondering if we should be using thin film for something. :)

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,321
    edited December 1969

    8eos8 said:
    Some more experimentation....I finally got a more noticeable SSS effect by increasing translucency, but the skin tone became a bit darker as a side-effect. Need to play with the translucency and transmission colors more. What I did this time:

    - Removed all specular maps
    - Translucency Weight: 0.8; Color: HSV 48/72/240
    - Glossy Layered Weight: 0.5; Color: white; Roughness: 0.8
    - Refraction Index: 1.44 (not sure this has any effect though, as Refraction Weight is 0)
    - Top Coat Weight: 0.02 (or 0.05 for face); Roughness: 0.1 (0.2 for less shiny skin); Layering Mode: Fresnel; IOR: 1.34; and add bump maps with weight 2
    - Transmitted Measurement Distance: 2; Color: HSV 300/48/240; Scattering Distance: 0.5
    - SSS Amount: 0.8; Direction: -0.5

    Thank you for sharing your settings! I have to try this mapless spec idea. *Off to re-render Sebastian again*

  • 8eos88eos8 Posts: 166
    edited April 2015

    Glad I could help :) I've also been finding that inverting the specular maps and plugging them into the roughness channels (Glossy and Top Coat) helps to break up the specular highlights and not make the skin look so smooth. (I tried inverted bump maps too, but that didn't work as well, I guess because they're too much in midrange grays.)

    Post edited by 8eos8 on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,321
    edited April 2015

    This is a before and after! I'm going to experiment with some of my no-spec M4 textures next. It's not a perfect comparison because I also changed my HDR to a more skin-friendly one.

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    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 13,486
    edited April 2015

    Well, that's weird.

    Doing some tests, I'm finding that with, say, Victoria 6HD, top coat (.8 weight, flat white, fresnel 1.3 IOR) looks fine for 'wet skin' and thin film barely registers.

    (scratches his head)

    Here's a 'dry skin' vs. 'wet skin' with top coat test, which looks pretty cool.


    SO CONFUSING

    (You know, looking at the 'top coat' render, I wonder if it would look better with diffuse put back in as top coat color...)

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    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,321
    edited December 1969

    Well, that's weird.

    Doing some tests, I'm finding that with, say, Victoria 6HD, top coat (.8 weight, flat white, fresnel 1.3 IOR) looks fine for 'wet skin' and thin film barely registers.

    (scratches his head)

    Here's a 'dry skin' vs. 'wet skin' with top coat test, which looks pretty cool.


    SO CONFUSING

    That looks good!

    I changed the Trans/SSS colors on mine for Sebastian's very pale, not-at-all-olive skin compared to Olympia's, I forgot to say.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 13,486
    edited April 2015

    Hrm. I THINK putting Diffuse in the top coat color might be a good idea?

    hrrrrm

    First image: Top coat white (.8 weight, 1.3 IOR fresnel)
    Second image: Top coat = diffuse map

    But the second image just ends up looking more... metallic than wet.

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    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,321
    edited December 1969

    Okay, this is behind deviantart's maturity filter, so I think it's okay to post the link. It has male nudity, but the skin shaders are MUCH better than I've been doing to this point!

    Lighting really matters. I had to just throw out the .exr I made in Blender, it was muddying up my skins.

    http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/art/Taric-in-Iray-Male-Nudity-525814922

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,321
    edited December 1969

    And here is Fawne by Silver with 8eos8's suggested settings! I'm getting closer on the eye settings, finally. Here's a preset for her if anyone else wants to try. Adjusting the degree of bump for render distance is recommended.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zuzoc98tblu8h1p/FawneMatIray.zip?dl=0

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  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 13,486
    edited December 1969

    Have people seen much point to using SSS for skin rather than just translucence?

    The effects are small, have people really noticed a difference?

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,321
    edited December 1969

    Have people seen much point to using SSS for skin rather than just translucence?

    The effects are small, have people really noticed a difference?

    SSS shows up most in dim or indirect lighting. So how much it shows up depends entirely on the scene.

  • RarethRareth Posts: 1,458
    edited December 1969

    I don't know I tried adjusting the skin settings based on what I've gotten from this thread but.. the glossy is just too uniform, doesn't look right.

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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,321
    edited December 1969

    Rareth said:
    I don't know I tried adjusting the skin settings based on what I've gotten from this thread but.. the glossy is just too uniform, doesn't look right.


    What's your lighting?

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,305
    edited December 1969

    And here is Fawne by Silver with 8eos8's suggested settings! I'm getting closer on the eye settings, finally. Here's a preset for her if anyone else wants to try. Adjusting the degree of bump for render distance is recommended.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zuzoc98tblu8h1p/FawneMatIray.zip?dl=0

    oh! :cheese: As soon as I get threw the past two days of missed messages, messing with that SubDragonLE mats, lol. I still have some Benches to run as well. Thanks!
  • TjohnTjohn Posts: 10,048
    edited December 1969

    Rareth said:
    I don't know I tried adjusting the skin settings based on what I've gotten from this thread but.. the glossy is just too uniform, doesn't look right.



    Raise the Glossy Roughness until you're happy with it, maybe. :)
  • RarethRareth Posts: 1,458
    edited December 1969

    Rareth said:
    I don't know I tried adjusting the skin settings based on what I've gotten from this thread but.. the glossy is just too uniform, doesn't look right.


    What's your lighting?

    sun positioning, and I am pretty sure I remembered to turn the headlamp off.. tried again with some minor tweaks but still not sure.
    (same sun position, again no headlamp.)

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  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,244
    edited April 2015

    Why are male skins so much easier to make convincingly realistic? Is it that they are more photographic and less painted?

    My guys, even older textures like M4, can look pretty convincing with some attention to settings... the women, however, even with the newest V6 et al, soooo much harder. Best i've come up with so far is Olympia's base texture... and I'm still not at all happy with it.

    Post edited by evilded777 on
  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,244
    edited December 1969

    Rareth said:
    Rareth said:
    I don't know I tried adjusting the skin settings based on what I've gotten from this thread but.. the glossy is just too uniform, doesn't look right.


    What's your lighting?

    sun positioning, and I am pretty sure I remembered to turn the headlamp off.. tried again with some minor tweaks but still not sure.
    (same sun position, again no headlamp.)

    Are you using top coat? How's it set? and have you put the bump maps in top coat?

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 13,486
    edited December 1969

    Not quite 'skin,' but what refraction do folks suggest for 'Eye Reflection'?

  • RarethRareth Posts: 1,458
    edited December 1969

    Rareth said:
    Rareth said:
    I don't know I tried adjusting the skin settings based on what I've gotten from this thread but.. the glossy is just too uniform, doesn't look right.


    What's your lighting?

    sun positioning, and I am pretty sure I remembered to turn the headlamp off.. tried again with some minor tweaks but still not sure.
    (same sun position, again no headlamp.)

    Are you using top coat? How's it set? and have you put the bump maps in top coat?

    No I don't have bumps in the top coat.. should probably work on that
    top coat weight 0.5
    top coat color white
    top coat color effect scatter & transmit
    top coat roughness 0.4
    top coat laying mode fresnel
    top coat IOR 1.5
    anisotropy 0
    roations 0
    thin film 0
    ior 1.4

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,244
    edited December 1969

    Rareth said:
    Rareth said:
    Rareth said:
    I don't know I tried adjusting the skin settings based on what I've gotten from this thread but.. the glossy is just too uniform, doesn't look right.


    What's your lighting?

    sun positioning, and I am pretty sure I remembered to turn the headlamp off.. tried again with some minor tweaks but still not sure.
    (same sun position, again no headlamp.)

    Are you using top coat? How's it set? and have you put the bump maps in top coat?

    No I don't have bumps in the top coat.. should probably work on that
    top coat weight 0.5
    top coat color white
    top coat color effect scatter & transmit
    top coat roughness 0.4
    top coat laying mode fresnel
    top coat IOR 1.5
    anisotropy 0
    roations 0
    thin film 0
    ior 1.4

    Definetly put in the bumps, the wgt is kinda high for me and the roughness kinda low (preference). Try changing the color to 230,230,230 (.8.8.8) for base and top coat.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,305
    edited April 2015

    tjohn said:
    Rareth said:
    I don't know I tried adjusting the skin settings based on what I've gotten from this thread but.. the glossy is just too uniform, doesn't look right.



    Raise the Glossy Roughness until you're happy with it, maybe. :)or try using a map in the strength control. I haven't mentioned it before, as I'm still not sure what map and where it would go in the Iray shader. Just the Where the gloss is, and Where the Velvet is, makes or breaks the look of skin and scales, even in 3delight.

    To quote myself sort of referring to that SubDragonLE experimentation. Peach-fuzz on the cheeks and back of the hands is good, not so much on the lips, palms of the hands, and knuckles. Translucency on the ears is good with super-bright lights, not so much elsewhere there is bone in the way.

    It may also require altering some maps as I had done with the SubDragonLE for 3DL.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/799887/
    "O" and Rogerbee was absolutely correct for the 'Amount' of reflection on eyes, 29%. It's just a matter of figuring out what layer to apply the settings to, on people. and translating this to the equivalent Iray shader settings.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/799951/

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • MusicplayerMusicplayer Posts: 515
    edited April 2015

    Not quite 'skin,' but what refraction do folks suggest for 'Eye Reflection'?

    With the thin coat shader set at around a refraction of 1.33 I could never seem to get any eye reflections. Once I put the eye reflection settings refraction to 1.86 I got reflections 'All the time".

    In certain instances I have lowered this rate, but fiddling with all the cornea, and tear surface settings turned out for me to be a waste of time, because once the eye reflections refraction rate was increased from the default Iray shader setting, I got reflections with no problems.

    Hope this helps and works for you. :-)

    Post edited by Musicplayer on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,305
    edited April 2015

    And here is Fawne by Silver with 8eos8's suggested settings! I'm getting closer on the eye settings, finally. Here's a preset for her if anyone else wants to try. Adjusting the degree of bump for render distance is recommended.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zuzoc98tblu8h1p/FawneMatIray.zip?dl=0

    uh, perhaps I was a little optimistic at first. The only 'Fawne' that showed up in a search is an old V4 figure. :smirk: Nope, a V4 outfit, lol.
    https://www.daz3d.com/fawne-v4
    Well, in any case, folder folder folder, hmmm? Time to look and see if tinkering is even possible, or if Dragon Storms V4-to-G2F script will even function on Iray shaders.

    I honestly just don't feel like fussing with V4's backwards joint controls, and Iray at the same time, lol. I'll find another way to have fun with this.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • TjohnTjohn Posts: 10,048
    edited December 1969

    Fawne is a Silver character in the Marketplace for the Site beginning with "R". :)

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,305
    edited April 2015

    tjohn said:
    Fawne is a Silver character in the Marketplace for the Site beginning with "R". :)
    lol. As I think I discovered, I'll spare you the Error log, lol.

    I can think of two sites that start with 'R', and they specialize in Poser only stuff.

    Do not have Poser, Do not want Poser-only content, Do not like how it dose not function half the time in Studio, Sam I am. lol.

    Still, If it can be Ctrl-clicked onto another figure, it's a start. An example of sorts.
    (EDIT)
    Especially if it only takes switching the UV mapping back to whomever.
    (EDIT2)
    Now I do have Sapphira, IF it is the 'R' site I'm thinking of. Or is Silver at RuntimeDNA?

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • TjohnTjohn Posts: 10,048
    edited December 1969

    tjohn said:
    Fawne is a Silver character in the Marketplace for the Site beginning with "R". :)
    lol. As I think I discovered, I'll spare you the Error log, lol.

    I can think of two sites that start with 'R', and they specialize in Poser only stuff.

    Do not have Poser, Do not want Poser-only content, Do not like how it dose not function half the time in Studio, Sam I am. lol.

    Still, If it can be Ctrl-clicked onto another figure, it's a start. An example of sorts.

    Not Poser-only although some products are. Fawne for example comes with a V4 and Genesis version, and textures for both Poser and DS.
    Just like a lot of products here at DAZ.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,305
    edited April 2015

    We doubled when I edited my post, lol. I think there is something worth trying here. I'm sure some maps are in the wrong slots, tho this is much better already.
    (EDIT)
    Well, not so good in Iray, tho not horrid either. And there is a bad setting somewhere still, tho It is at least tolerable for experimenting with Iray now. Spot-renders don't take over an hour to get anywhere, lol.
    (EDIT2)
    Sapphira needs hair, and Taigafaeri posted some settings for that I want to try.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/800407/

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • RarethRareth Posts: 1,458
    edited December 1969

    still playing around with settings

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