Victoria 4 for Genesis 2 Female a post from the PA

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Comments

  • BarubaryBarubary Posts: 1,159
    edited December 1969

    heinz0r said:
    While complaints about compatibility and the business model are mostly valid, I still say that this is just the same that it was when genesis "happened" a few years ago. Everyone was raging hard and probably the same ppl are now rooting for the first mesh and hating on the new one. I believe that all those things that people are now crying out for will eventually be included. DAZ are a business and they usually try to please their customers.

    We do seem to remember things differently then. I think people were generally pretty happy about Genesis. The biggest complaint was Poser compatibility and I don't think you'll find too many Poser users today "rooting for the first mesh and hating on the new one". Because, by the lookds of it, many of them still use V4. Instead, what many people feared (and what I personally, back then, was pretty sure would not happen) seems to have come true. The market has been split into V4 and Genesis or, if you're talking in shops, into DAZ and pretty much everyone else (safe for a few small exceptions at Rendo and RDNA).

    As for me, I think I was among the few ones who didn't like Genesis so much. I actually don't disagree with V6 as a figure as much as many others. Unlike Genesis, I somewhat like her. As V5, I would be all over her. I just think she'll damage the market even further, kill Genesis and herself in the process. As I wrote in another thread, there's still so much stuff one could have done for Genesis, that I'm pretty sure we'll never see. But at least, if the market gets any more fragmented, we won't see it for V6, either :D


    Just one request to you at DAZ : Make sure to update all the functionality options, especially Gen3 stuff, and try to support the GenX creator as much as you can. Those things will be big factors in how fast people might adapt to the new one.

    From what I understand, if it wasn't for MallenLane, apparently there wouldn't be any Gen4 backwards compatibility. So I think your advise will fall on deaf ears. Who knows, maybe with how little popularity Genesis gathered in other places, they were trying to force the issue with V6.

  • BTLProdBTLProd Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Based on what facts?

    Victoria 6 has been out one day, there is no indication that this is all there is to Genesis Female 2 or even Victoria 6.


    I'm taking a wait and see attitude for now. If/When Genesis 2 Male and Michael 6 come out, if you can't cross fit clothing, skins, and morphs between the two, I won't be buying.Clothing? As has already been shown PA's can and have produced clones to allow autofit to work between various figures. I don't see an issue there, even if DAZ3D doesn't do it themselves.

    Skins? I never did see the fascination with putting female skins on male bodies and vice versa, however the technology is in there to add UV sets, so again, if DAZ3D doesn't do it, someone else can, and probably will.

    Morphs? DImension 3D has altready said GenX is coming for Genesis 2 Female, but I will point out that, many of the "Universal" Morphs for Genesis 1 weren't truly Universal. Muscle mass, for example, is not the same on women as men and trying to do muscles that would work on both is a disservice to both male and female.

  • The Vertex DoctorThe Vertex Doctor Posts: 82
    edited June 2013

    I never did see the fascination with putting female skins on male bodies and vice versa

    More options is always better. Sometimes I have a specific character look in mind and can't find the right skin on the male side so I go through my female skins and find what I want and vice versa.

    As for the morphs, I sometimes add a touch of a morph meant for one sex to the opposite for the same reason I might use the opposite sex's skin. Going for a certain look.

    Post edited by The Vertex Doctor on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited June 2013

    Being able to leverage one's content is a big issue for many people, whether it's skins, clothing, poses... This is very understandable, as is the ability to mix male/female/age etc to create new and unique characters.

    I really liked the post someone (forget who now) posted about making children using morphs from the Male/Female parents to create the family resemblance. That is something one couldn't do without Genesis very easily.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,623
    edited December 1969

    Based on what facts?

    Victoria 6 has been out one day, there is no indication that this is all there is to Genesis Female 2 or even Victoria 6.

    I'm taking a wait and see attitude for now. If/When Genesis 2 Male and Michael 6 come out, if you can't cross fit clothing, skins, and morphs between the two, I won't be buying.

    Sorry, but you just don't know that for sure. Why put such a negative spin on the figures? It is, after all, Genesis.

    If you dial in the Androgynous "morph" it's Genesis as we know. I think it's sort of reverse engineering of the morphs. In what I'm seeing is that the female morph you get when you first load up Gene02 is a morph of the Genesis base. When you dial up the Androgynous morph it's putting Genesis back to it's default form or turning off the female morph we see when we load up Gene02!

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited June 2013

    Even if it wasn't officially Genesis, it doesn't rule out conversion products, but it is an understandable concern.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • The Vertex DoctorThe Vertex Doctor Posts: 82
    edited June 2013

    RAMWolff said:
    Sorry, but you just don't know that for sure. Why put such a negative spin on the figures? It is, after all, Genesis.

    Which is why I stated: "I’m taking a wait and see attitude for now. If/When Genesis 2 Male and Michael 6 come out, if you can’t cross fit clothing, skins, and morphs between the two, I won’t be buying."

    Post edited by The Vertex Doctor on
  • BTLProdBTLProd Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    I never did see the fascination with putting female skins on male bodies and vice versa

    More options is always better. Sometimes I have a specific character look in mind and can't find the right skin on the male side so I go through my female skins and find what I want and vice versa.

    As for the morphs, I sometimes add a touch of a morph meant for one sex to the opposite for the same reason I might use the opposite sex's skin. Going for a certain look.I said I never saw the fascination, I didn't say there wasn't; a solution. Multiple UV sets is something that DAZ Studio supports, Genesis and Genesis 2 Female both support and use them. I am sure that some PA will produce one for M5's and/or M6's UV's on Victoria 6 if there is truly a market for it.

    And, as I posted, Dimension 3D has already stated that Gen-X will cover Genesis to Genesis 2 Female morphs.

    Your concerns are covered.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited June 2013

    First, I want to say thank you for being patient with me Kattey.

    I don't know which direction DAZ will ultimately take, but I should clarify what I hope they will do.

    I hope they will maintain the Genesis concept as a full character line in and of itself with all of it's advantages. It should (imo) be an option for people to choose to stick to the Genesis line from now forward and never look sideways. Which means I hope there is a true succession to the original Genesis concept.

    I further hope (perhaps idealistically) there is enough market to support and enough interest by DAZ to produce separate specialized lines for those who would value focus on optimized retopos for specific character lines. Not just m/f .. but fantasy characters, etc... One of the things I noticed is that some fantasy characters lost some of their detail going from separate characters to Genesis versions. I would like both (I'm greedy that way.)

    These two do not have to be mutually exclusive, in fact they can feed each other, taking innovations gained from one focus and feeding it back into the other line.

    All of this might be idealistic, but it is my hope.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • BTLProdBTLProd Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    Being able to leverage one's content is a big issue for many people, whether it's skins, clothing, poses... This is very understandable, as is the ability to mix male/female/age etc to create new and unique characters.

    I really liked the post someone (forget who now) posted about making children using morphs from the Male/Female parents to create the family resemblance. That is something one couldn't do without Genesis very easily.

    And DAZ has generally adapted the one generation back concept for previous generations of characters.

    The sole exception being Michael 4.

    Note that nothing is stopping you from using Victoria 3, Victoria 4, Victoria 5, Victoria 6, and even Victoria 1/2 in the same render.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    I just wanted to say that the autofit for V4 to genesis2 is really working for me on high heels. Very satisfied with this, it has given me back dozens of options that I didn't really want to use before because of the effort required to correct issues.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    Gedd, I share your hopes a lot but being probably (much) more of a skeptic I just don't have high expectations and look how to deal with situation by myself if it turns for worse.

  • OctaveaOctavea Posts: 25
    edited December 1969

    How would this work in Poser? Is the process of switching UVs and material setups compatible? I think I am still missing some of the steps. Thank you!

    I'm wondering this also. Is there a way to switch UV's in Poser for Genesis 2 to V4?

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited December 1969

    ...]And DAZ has generally adapted the one generation back concept for previous generations of characters....
    Note that nothing is stopping you from using Victoria 3, Victoria 4, Victoria 5, Victoria 6, and even Victoria 1/2 in the same render.

    The problem with the first is that much of the product made for Genesis was actually retrofitted from V4, especially in the case of skins... so going back one generation would not work very well in this case.

    As to the second point, this touches on the issues of managing increasing complex libraries of content, which is a whole can of worms in itself. There should be a better solution, and I believe that is possible, re: my previous post.

  • BTLProdBTLProd Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    OnyxRayne said:
    How would this work in Poser? Is the process of switching UVs and material setups compatible? I think I am still missing some of the steps. Thank you!

    I'm wondering this also. Is there a way to switch UV's in Poser for Genesis 2 to V4?Like Carrara it requires a Preset that has the different UV set in it. Since you have to create a DUF file out of a V4 preset in the first place, that should suffice.

  • BTLProdBTLProd Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    ...]And DAZ has generally adapted the one generation back concept for previous generations of characters....
    Note that nothing is stopping you from using Victoria 3, Victoria 4, Victoria 5, Victoria 6, and even Victoria 1/2 in the same render.

    The problem with the first is that much of the product made for Genesis was actually retrofitted from V4, especially in the case of skins... so going back one generation would not work very well in this case.

    As to the second point, this touches on the issues of managing increasing complex libraries of content, which is a whole can of worms in itself. There should be a better solution, and I believe that is possible, re: my previous post.And yet here we are in a thread where a PA has created that UV set and a clone to autofit the clothing already.

    Your concern is already addressed and solved.

    As for managing your content, it isn't all that complex. You can use the built in Database in DS, use one of the third party Databases, or organize your content in a manner that makes sense to you in the Content Library Pane of DS/Carrara/Poser. Since organization is not a one size fits all situation....

  • MallenLaneMallenLane Posts: 130
    edited December 1969

    I am still reading but, I'm not commenting as much. All I can say is that I think you will like what I have in mind for the future.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,623
    edited December 1969

    I am still reading but, I'm not commenting as much. All I can say is that I think you will like what I have in mind for the future.

    You have never disappointed so I'm sure we will all be pleased! :-)

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 4,036
    edited December 1969

    I posted this in another thread but as this one is actually by a PA I no one minds if I re-post it here. I am not buying anything for G2F now (partially do to the oversights listed below) but will get V4 for G2F when I do (going to wait for Genesis 2 Male).

    First of all I appreciate the PA's that have tried to explain what they know and can tell without getting in trouble with DAZ. I am now more confident that Genesis 2 is not going to replace Genesis and that this is another case of bad name choice by DAZ. I will continue to purchase Genesis ( I refuse to call it Genesis 1, I am a cranky old fart after all) and have nearly $400 worth in my wishlist. I hope there will be an update to G2F to fix one major oversight and one minor. Major oversight is that there still isn't separate left and right eye surface which is odd as the head morph pack has several asymmetrical left right morphs (as does the body pack). Minor oversight is the new toes only have one joint instead of two, if you are going to the trouble to rig the toes do it right not half right.

  • OctaveaOctavea Posts: 25
    edited December 1969

    OnyxRayne said:
    How would this work in Poser? Is the process of switching UVs and material setups compatible? I think I am still missing some of the steps. Thank you!

    I'm wondering this also. Is there a way to switch UV's in Poser for Genesis 2 to V4?

    Like Carrara it requires a Preset that has the different UV set in it. Since you have to create a DUF file out of a V4 preset in the first place, that should suffice.

    Thanks ! That worked great.

  • vienastoksvienastoks Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Instead of criticism or praise (and I probably could do both) let me ask a stupid question:

    Could Genesis 2 be a new figure, but a versatile one too? Meaning that DAZ and MallenLane would've identified parts of the original Genesis mesh, that didn't work so well for gender specific roles and improved on them for Genesis 2 so that better males, females, kids and monsters could be made of it.

    The only drawback to this approach could be significantly more vertices (or whatever they're called), but that's OK - we are used to new software/tools requiring more powerful computers and more memory. This could be understandable even if some people would complain. What you would keep in such case is the innovativeness of the product and that proud award Genesis 1 won for versatility and vision.

  • siocsioc Posts: 300
    edited December 1969

    Thanks MallenLane for your good products and explanations.

    Don't let the few always "the previous one was better and the new one is not what I dreamed of" bother you. You did an amazing works.

    Looks how well your package is sell and work for the happy one!!!

    Please go on with your products and talk to us :) and ignore the stupid/angry one.

  • MarchosiusMarchosius Posts: 69
    edited December 1969

    Hi, just tried to convert a V4 Skin to Genesis 2. Under the Genesis 2 uv selection I do not have V4 maps available, but do have V4 installed. Can anyone help me with this issue?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 65,831
    edited December 1969

    Hi, just tried to convert a V4 Skin to Genesis 2. Under the Genesis 2 uv selection I do not have V4 maps available, but do have V4 installed. Can anyone help me with this issue?

    You have the Victoria 4 for Genesis 2 female installed, not plain Victoria 4?

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 7,918
    edited December 1969

    I just wanted to add my thanks for providing a solution enabling us to use V4 stuff on G2F :)
    G2F is definitely an interesting figure, and I see it as a companion to Genesis rather than a replacement, both having their strong points and weaknesses. I personally wouldn't have labeled it "Genesis 2", for reasons already stated, but I suppose building on an established brand is better for marketing (which is a field that never interested me ^^)

  • Melissa ConwayMelissa Conway Posts: 565
    edited December 1969

    drdancm said:
    You need to switch the surfaces to use Victoria 4 as the UV set. It will be at the top of the Surface panel. Just select them all and switch it.

    I'm in the same boat as Nyala who said:

    "I need a little help, please.

    I load an skin on V4 and save it as “Material Preset” and then I load the preset to the gen 2. Correct?

    Not working for me, do not know why. "

    I was ready to dump this program and ask for a refund, but after someone sent me to this forum thread and read Mallen Lanes' posts I realized that here's someone nice who is trying to help.

    So I'm asking for help. Those of you who understand the difference between UV set and Texture sets, Surface shading etc. probably have no trouble understanding these terse instructions. However, newbies, or oldies who simply use with DStudio, but have never created any clothes or done complicated things in Studio, really would like some simple easy to follow step by step instructions, possibly with some screen captures if it's not way too much trouble. By step by step I mean using a V4 example and going through the whole thing one menu at a time.

    It would be much appreciated, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who really needs this type of tutorial. Better yet if Mallen or someone else could do a video tutorial and upload to youtube, with a link here, that would probably be a lot less work for the blessed person.

    Thanks,

    Dan

    Hi Dan.

    It doesn’t look like anyone answered you..? This is what I did:
    Open Daz Studio and delete genesis.
    Load Victoria 4.2.
    Select her, find the character material mat intended for V4 that you want to use and double-click to load.
    Click File, Save as, Material(s) preset. Name the file and click Save. If the Material(s) Preset Save Options box pops up, click Accept.
    Delete V4.
    In the Smart Content tab under Figures, load Genesis 2 base female.
    If you want the V4 shape, go to the Shaping tab, find Victoria 4 and set the slider to 100%.
    In the Surfaces tab under Editor, click on Genesis 2 Female so it is highlighted. To the right, you will see (28): UV Set.
    Click the down arrow for the UV Set and choose Victoria 4.
    You will see the Genesis 2 Female mat become distorted.
    Find your saved material file (unless you changed the location, it should have saved in the same place as the original material mat under the Content Library tab).
    Double-click to load.
    Hope this works.

    M.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,989
    edited December 1969

    drdancm said:
    You need to switch the surfaces to use Victoria 4 as the UV set. It will be at the top of the Surface panel. Just select them all and switch it.

    I'm in the same boat as Nyala who said:

    "I need a little help, please.

    I load an skin on V4 and save it as “Material Preset” and then I load the preset to the gen 2. Correct?

    Not working for me, do not know why. "

    I was ready to dump this program and ask for a refund, but after someone sent me to this forum thread and read Mallen Lanes' posts I realized that here's someone nice who is trying to help.

    So I'm asking for help. Those of you who understand the difference between UV set and Texture sets, Surface shading etc. probably have no trouble understanding these terse instructions. However, newbies, or oldies who simply use with DStudio, but have never created any clothes or done complicated things in Studio, really would like some simple easy to follow step by step instructions, possibly with some screen captures if it's not way too much trouble. By step by step I mean using a V4 example and going through the whole thing one menu at a time.

    It would be much appreciated, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who really needs this type of tutorial. Better yet if Mallen or someone else could do a video tutorial and upload to youtube, with a link here, that would probably be a lot less work for the blessed person.

    Thanks,

    Dan

    Hi Dan.

    It doesn’t look like anyone answered you..? This is what I did:
    Open Daz Studio and delete genesis.
    Load Victoria 4.2.
    Select her, find the character material mat intended for V4 that you want to use and double-click to load.
    Click File, Save as, Material(s) preset. Name the file and click Save. If the Material(s) Preset Save Options box pops up, click Accept.
    Delete V4.
    In the Smart Content tab under Figures, load Genesis 2 base female.
    If you want the V4 shape, go to the Shaping tab, find Victoria 4 and set the slider to 100%.
    In the Surfaces tab under Editor, click on Genesis 2 Female so it is highlighted. To the right, you will see (28): UV Set.
    Click the down arrow for the UV Set and choose Victoria 4.
    You will see the Genesis 2 Female mat become distorted.
    Find your saved material file (unless you changed the location, it should have saved in the same place as the original material mat under the Content Library tab).
    Double-click to load.
    Hope this works.

    M.

    Well there was a short answer for the 1st question I'll link to here as this is a fast moving thread atm.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24152/P60/#357384

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,384
    edited June 2013

    Greetings,
    Here's a video walking through the process of saving out a V4 texture and applying it to V6. No sound, but the steps should be pretty obvious.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J39mcUV5rCE

    The images below are the 'Before the video' and 'After the video' shots. Of special note is the dusting of freckles across V6 and V4's chest after the conversion, showing them as the same.

    This was a quick demo, only slightly edited to remove the occasional long pauses and that I actually started with my Surfaces tab on a second screen, and had to collapse it into the app to show the surfaces changes.

    -- Morgan

    V6_Texture_Transfer_After.png
    800 x 933 - 465K
    V6_Texture_Transfer_Before.png
    800 x 933 - 447K
    Post edited by CypherFOX on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,989
    edited December 1969

    Thank you MallenLane. I've now had to install and try out the product and it works great!

  • DkgooseDkgoose Posts: 1,450
    edited December 1969

    Any plans to make products to allow use of other Gen5 textures on Genesis 2 Female

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