3Delight Surface and Lighting Thread

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited April 2015

    Rogerbee said:
    Just did what you did, and he-e-llo! Worked like a charm, get in!

    Write a full tutorial and post that, it'll be a winner!

    CHEERS!

    PS (Why bother with velvet? That is essentially for peach fuzz on human skin and dragons are reptiles. I never use velvet anywhere.)

    The preset, had it already on, and at 60% strength everywhere, so I decided to control Where it was with a map.

    Looks better then what I got with the Displacement set so high, I had to back it of to -0.1 +0.1, left bump min/max alone.
    (EDIT, and here we go, now for the eyes, lol)

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  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Ok, whatever floats the boat. Did you buy a set of poses? I used one that came with MilDragon 2 which is why some bits look odd.

    CHEERS!

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited April 2015

    Rogerbee said:

    Ok, whatever floats the boat. Did you buy a set of poses? I used one that came with MilDragon 2 which is why some bits look odd.

    CHEERS!

    no, I just got a few tutorials that use whatever came with Daz Studio (SubDragon, SubDragonLE ?). All of my posing is using the bend/twist/etc dials for each joint. Sometimes, I'll start with a caned person pose on the Figures and adjust the joints from there. Tho not here, that is all from scratch. There are No South-paw sward poses in my collection, not even a hold a sward preset.
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  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited April 2015

    Not that you'd notice, but, on the eyes on mine, I added an opacity colour of 240 253 244, then I set up refraction with an index of 1.4, and turned Reflection on to raytraced with a strength of 29%. Specular at 100%, glossiness 75% and sharpness 85%.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:

    Ok, whatever floats the boat. Did you buy a set of poses? I used one that came with MilDragon 2 which is why some bits look odd.

    CHEERS!

    no, I just got a few tutorials that use whatever came with Daz Studio (SubDragon, SubDragonLE ?). All of my posing is using the bend/twist/etc dials for each joint. Sometimes, I'll start with a caned person pose on the Figures and adjust the joints from there. Tho not here, that is all from scratch. There are No South-paw sward poses in my collection, not even a hold a sward preset.

    I see, it's a bit annoying it doesn't come with poses, but, I guess that's why it's LE and free!

    CHEERS!

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    Rogerbee said:

    Ok, whatever floats the boat. Did you buy a set of poses? I used one that came with MilDragon 2 which is why some bits look odd.

    CHEERS!

    no, I just got a few tutorials that use whatever came with Daz Studio (SubDragon, SubDragonLE ?). All of my posing is using the bend/twist/etc dials for each joint. Sometimes, I'll start with a caned person pose on the Figures and adjust the joints from there. Tho not here, that is all from scratch. There are No South-paw sward poses in my collection, not even a hold a sward preset.

    I see, it's a bit annoying it doesn't come with poses, but, I guess that's why it's LE and free!

    CHEERS!That, and caned poses don't always work, especially on uneven ground like that Flipmode set.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    LOL, over here in the UK, 'caned' means the same as stoned! You should save any poses you do and stick them on ShareCG.

    CHEERS!

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited April 2015

    Rogerbee said:
    Not that you'd notice, but, on the eyes on mine, I added an opacity color of 240 253 244, then I set up refraction with an index of 1.4, and turned Reflection on to raytraced with a strength of 29%. Specular at 100%, glossiness 75% and sharpness 85%.

    CHEERS!

    OK after looking at what the default settings are for the eyes... opacity color??? There isn't even a cornea layer!?

    And that Reflection map (Yes that's what it dose there with reflection turned on with that "DAZ Studio Default" shader), It dose not even come close to the tutorials it's used in, lol. A modern house hallway inside a stone arch cavern chamber, really, lol.

    Only came with the two maps, I don't think there is anything I can do with this. I'll remove that stupid map, and see what is possible, tho I'm expecting nothing at all. There just is not enough to work with for maps.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited April 2015

    Then again. Ditch the Specular Color map. Kill the stupid Gloss, and set 'Actual' reflection to 50%.

    It's a start at least.
    (EDIT)
    And drop the Eye color map, into that 'Ambient Color' slot.

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  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Opacity settings are just below Diffuse. You don't do anything with the specular except the sharpness.

    CHEERS!

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  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    No, ditch the specular map, leave the gloss alone, set the opacity to what I did, reflection and refraction to what I did, ambient to what you did and you get eyes like below.

    CHEERS!

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited April 2015

    Rogerbee said:

    Opacity settings are just below Diffuse. You don't do anything with the specular except the sharpness.

    CHEERS!

    I see that in your screen-cap, yet this is what I got on the Eye's only surface... There is nothing other then what's shown.

    Leaving the Glossiness dial at the default 0%, and removing that stupid map from the "Specular Color" just gives you a pure white eyeball. Kind of makes it impossible to aim the eyes when you can't see where there looking.

    (EDIT)
    Your dragon loaded with a different shader on the eyes, didn't it? AoA, Omni, Iray, Other?

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    LOL! Yes, sorry, I selected the entire creature when I loaded UberSurface, I thought you'd done likewise. My bad.

    CHEERS!

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited April 2015

    Rogerbee said:

    LOL! Yes, sorry, I selected the entire creature when I loaded UberSurface, I thought you'd done likewise. My bad.

    CHEERS!Ah, no. I selected the dragon, and set the "Attacking Dragon" preset. The Omni was part of that. My attempt to translate the settings, kind of went south for the 'Reflection' of the rest of the temple, lol. The reflection strength is going to have to go way up with this, lol.

    The daz default shader 'Glossiness' dial is just a fake reflection of sorts, the 'reflection' dial is far better for real reflections, with the daz default shader. Omni, well, I'll go and find that...

    Caned effects, caned samples, etc. It's a music slang for presets from the manufacturer that is not perfect for a particular song, just good enough to get you by in a pinch for most stuff. Often ending up with the end result of the song sounding like it was recorded in a tin can, lol.

    (EDIT)
    What Omni??? (EDIT2, OK, UberSurface, got it, thanks)
    (EDIT3, That is drastically better. Thanks)
    Had another play, I set the bump to min -0.035 and max 0.025 and set displacement to min 0 max 0.4. Oh, the skin has a glossiness of 75% with Fresnel set to 91%, fall off 2 and sharpness 15%.

    tad bit confusing to follow along, lol.
    Specular Color 240r 222g 180b, Specular Strength of 100% plus map, glossiness of 75%, Specular Sharpness of 0%.

    Specular2 Color 255r 255g 255b, Specular2 Strength of 100% plus map, Specular2 Roughness 65%, Specular2 Sharpness of 0%.

    Fresnel Strength 91%, Fresnel fall off 2 and Fresnel sharpness 15%.
    Again, Thanks. (EDIT added render of SubDragonLE with eyes, and skin errrr scales instead of velvet)
    I'm still not sure if the texture sets I should get are for the "Millennium SubDragon", or the "Millennium SubDragon LE".

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited April 2015

    Ok then, load UberSurface for the eye and then do what I suggested and you'll get there. Then I think we should stop as Kettu and Wowie haven't been on yet, we're heading towards P100 and we don't know what Kettu has done about a new thread. We'll pick up when we know what Kettu is up to.

    CHEERS!

    EDIT:

    Turn down the ambient strength to zero.

    I tried resizing the textures to 4096x4096, which seems to be the new Daz standard.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited December 1969

    These are some awesome dragon renders you've got, guys!

    I will start a new thread later this evening (it's evening where I am) or tomorrow. "The 3Delight Laboratory Thread", it's your last chance to suggest something else.

    -----------

    Granted, 1024x1024 is not entirely great, however I've had better looking surfaces with far smaller mats.
    256x256 tiles on the floor http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/761164/
    My test chamber floor tiles are only 100x100 pixels in size.

    Zarcon, the key word is "tiles". Tiling maps is like using a huge map flood-filled with the pattern.

    And hand-editing is the way to go. It's what I do at least 75% of the time (it's also why I can't share a lot of my materials as presets, because of no redistribution rights for the edited maps).

    One thing I do with ancient small textures (and I run into them a lot, what with my fondness for Gen3 and older content) is resize them larger (via a nice upsampling algorithm, I think IrfanView can help you choose, although I use Paint.NET usually), and then run this Pixel Sharpener plugin on them:
    http://forums.getpaint.net/index.php?/topic/26783-trs-pixel-sharpener-plugin-v20-dec-21-2014/

    It's strictly for Paint.NET, though. But PdN is free, so why don't you try it out =)


    Now the other adjustment. The Specular strengths was set to 15% everywhere, with no strength maps at all. So the crevices between the scales was glowing on the body, especially with the UE2 light coming from everywhere.

    Correction: UE2 couldn't have caused the specular glow, since it's a non-specular light. UE2 will trigger the velvet, though. Mapping the velvet was a smart move, it can add nice "dusty" effects, but a strength map is a must for this to look nice.

    What may cause glowing shiny bits when they don´t belong is a specular-only light without shadows (or any directional light without shadows that isn't diffuse-only).

    -----------

    I don't think I enabled Fresnel on any of the reflective bits, what settings do you recommend!?

    Try 75% with a sharpness of about 10% and falloff 4, for starters, and tweak from there. We have "artistic" Fresnel in the UberSurface family, so there's always several ways of setting it up to look good. Either way, noticeable Fresnel attenuation (strength-wise) is important for all reflective things that aren't metallic.

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited December 1969

    Seems two people are trying their best to get to the 99 pages. Don't open a new thread too soon. Let them fill up

    And before you open a thread, here is my suggestion : the eternal three daylight in some mindless spot

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited December 1969

    Seems two people are trying their best to get to the 99 pages. Don't open a new thread too soon. Let them fill up

    And before you open a thread, here is my suggestion : the eternal three daylight in some mindless spot

    It won't take them long to get to the 99th one.

    Neat suggestion, although I didn't like that movie that much ;) Kate Winslet's hair had some nifty colours in it, of course.

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited April 2015

    Trying to find something fun and in the mood/spirit. First thing that came to my mind even though I don't really remember the movie but I know I liked it
    I hope my brain comes up with something else

    Post edited by Takeo.Kensei on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Kettu's 3Delight Lab?

    I'll make a note of those fresnel settings and get back to you.

    CHEERS!

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    "I was working in the lab late one night
    When my eyes beheld an eerie sight..."

    Yep...3Delight Lab...sounds good to me.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:

    Kettu's 3Delight Lab?

    I'll make a note of those fresnel settings and get back to you.

    Oh man, but it should be a lab for everybody. Too much of Kettu-this-Kettu-that could scare some people away.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    I don't think so, anyone that's been in this thread knows you do good work and they know they can learn a great deal from you. In just shy of 2 weeks, I've learned more from you than I ever have in 2 years. Don't hide your light! Lay down what you can do in the first post and you'll be well in.

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited April 2015

    This is my next little project, it's the Sanctum Arts Horde figure and it deserves to be given the full UberSurface2 treatment. This will be fun!

    CHEERS!

    PS (The render shows it as it loads.)

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    Kettu, The point was, that the one-foot tile only had a hundred pixels going across the floor tile. Fare les then a 1-to1 texture pixel to renderd pixel, and it still had good contrast between dark and light areas. Yea, the SubDragon stock mats are not much better, tho the color map had far more color and contrast, then what was in the rendered result.

    As you point out, and I was horrified to see, by default, there is no maps to control where any of the Specular or velvet is on the SubDragonLE. That combined with the presence of light from every direction, made for a low-contrast dragon. I see people experimenting with Iray skin textures, and with a lack of good maps, well. Peach-fuzz on the cheeks is good, on the lips, not so much. Peach-fuzz on the backs of hands looks good, Peach-fuzz on the knuckles and palms of hands, well, lol. Translucency on the nose and ears is good with bright lights, translucency elsewhere, that depends, lol.

    I will look at that program, tho I'm sure in a roundabout way, I did that using IrfanView after figuring out a good set of adjustments for the existing maps.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited April 2015

    Rogerbee said:
    This is my next little project, it's the Sanctum Arts Horde figure and it deserves to be given the full UberSurface2 treatment. This will be fun!

    CHEERS!

    PS (The render shows it as it loads.)

    Yep, looks like Poser only mats forced down Studio's throat, lol. I've had my share of ripping out my hair over similar situations, only to discover that the rigging also needed to be completely redone from scratch.

    It looks like that figure is missing allot of strength control mats.

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    This is my next little project, it's the Sanctum Arts Horde figure and it deserves to be given the full UberSurface2 treatment. This will be fun!

    CHEERS!

    PS (The render shows it as it loads.)

    Yep, looks like Poser only mats forced down Studio's throat, lol. I've had my share of ripping out my hair over similar situations, only to discover that the rigging also needed to be completely redone from scratch.

    It looks like that figure is missing allot of strength control mats.

    Actually, the figure loads and performs better in DS than it did in Poser, all the maps are there, they just need a decent shader. All Sanctum Arts stuff looks better. Their Grim armour looked great, in Poser the helmet lenses were just transparent holes, in DS there were proper lit lenses. The beard hair on the Horde just sat there and looked silly in Poser, whereas there are control morphs for it in DS. It is odd then that they were distributed by Poser vendors and not here in Daz. Whatever, we'll never know now as Sanctum Arts are long gone, which is a crying shame, as I would love to have seen Marine armour from them.

    CHEERS!

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:

    I don't think so, anyone that's been in this thread knows you do good work and they know they can learn a great deal from you. In just shy of 2 weeks, I've learned more from you than I ever have in 2 years. Don't hide your light! Lay down what you can do in the first post and you'll be well in.


    Thank you very much for your kind words! I'm glad I was able to help you. Let's hope my pedantic personality does not antagonise too many people =)

    That werewolf (?) figure you plan to work on looks awesome! Can't wait to see what you come with for its materials.

    -------------

    Kettu, The point was, that the one-foot tile only had a hundred pixels going across the floor tile. Fare les then a 1-to1 texture pixel to renderd pixel, and it still had good contrast between dark and light areas. Yea, the SubDragon stock mats are not much better, tho the color map had far more color and contrast, then what was in the rendered result.

    I see now. I guess what may also play against SubDragon LE's microscopic textures is that the dragon's not flat... unlike the floor tile. So there may well be some distortion to the textures, particularly when the dragon is posed. It's very hard to get minimal UV distortions, especially in animatable models.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited April 2015

    Rogerbee said:
    Rogerbee said:
    This is my next little project, it's the Sanctum Arts Horde figure and it deserves to be given the full UberSurface2 treatment. This will be fun!

    CHEERS!

    PS (The render shows it as it loads.)

    Yep, looks like Poser only mats forced down Studio's throat, lol. I've had my share of ripping out my hair over similar situations, only to discover that the rigging also needed to be completely redone from scratch.

    It looks like that figure is missing allot of strength control mats.

    Actually, the figure loads and performs better in DS than it did in Poser, all the maps are there, they just need a decent shader. All Sanctum Arts stuff looks better. Their Grim armour looked great, in Poser the helmet lenses were just transparent holes, in DS there were proper lit lenses. The beard hair on the Horde just sat there and looked silly in Poser, whereas there are control morphs for it in DS. It is odd then that they were distributed by Poser vendors and not here in Daz. Whatever, we'll never know now as Sanctum Arts are long gone, which is a crying shame, as I would love to have seen Marine armour from them.

    CHEERS! Breakfast didn't sit well with me, so I had to lay down for a bit, feeling better now.

    A bit of glossiness, as is on the nose, is good. The body needs that velvet (peach-fuzz efect) with gloss turned off almost completely. I don't think they would look correct if both were everywhere.

    Also, Atticus Bones fur pelt would look awesome on that... If it could be turned into a proper mat for the fella.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/690946/
    Hmmm.

    Kettu Agreed. If it wasn't for the one render, personal interest render of sorts, I wouldn't bother. The DazDragon3 is still some time off for me. I kind of already got my massive bit of, "flushing the wishlist threw the shopping cart" , for the month. The final result in the last posted render is more then sufficient, It's just pending an 8 hour stretch to do an All-Out render, window of opportunity. I have some more testing to do on the new Graphics card first, and to figure out how to turn off that obnoxious OpenGL sound in the view-field.

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited April 2015

    Thank you very much for your kind words! I'm glad I was able to help you. Let's hope my pedantic personality does not antagonise too many people =)

    It won't, the tone is just right, people take in what you say and learn and that is what is needed for any tutorial.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
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