How to Use dForce: Creating a Blanket, Draping Clothes on Furniture, and Much More [Commercial]

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  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,532

    Just speculating here, but it might be worth playing with the expand/contract dial under the dforce surface settings, maybe dial to 105% or 110% and see what happens. I personally would have tried to plant the wind node on the figure's lower back and parent to lower abdomen or equivalent bone for an animated drape, but I don't have much experience working with wind, so this is just spitballing.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,591
    edited June 2018

    Well part of what I think aggravates so many content creators is that for each pose there is an art to making the morphs for the conforming cloth look as dynamic as possible.  If my figure is in a standing pose the created morphs, using the sym, looks good but you pose him in another pose and the cape does strange things like the area I have set up to NOT move away from the figure DOES move away from the figure (talking about the fasteners and the top of the cape I have set up to be less affected by the drape sym).  So now I get why some published artists include support for some pose packs as they just sym the cloth and save that out as a morph target that correlates with the figures pose, but trust me, it won't look good if you try that pose preset for the clothing with another pose, it just won't look good.  So a cape that looks realistic will HAVE to be sym'd in order to get it looking just right but figuring out the wind nodes to get the effects I want is kind of a nose bleed!  lol 

    EDITED to fix some sentence structuring and info! 

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • N_R ArtsN_R Arts Posts: 710

    I love this thread.

    I've been looking at Silo 2, as it's one of the cheapest modellers that is avaliable (at just under £80). But I'm worried that I won't be any good at using it. 

    I have also wanted to make clothes for a while, but I've not been inspired, I've got no idea where to start, and very little confidence in my own ability.

    But thanks to this thread, I finally have a starting point.

    Thanks for uploading your tutorials as PDFs too. 

     

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,876
    N_R Arts said:

    I love this thread.

    I've been looking at Silo 2, as it's one of the cheapest modellers that is avaliable (at just under £80). But I'm worried that I won't be any good at using it. 

    I have also wanted to make clothes for a while, but I've not been inspired, I've got no idea where to start, and very little confidence in my own ability.

    But thanks to this thread, I finally have a starting point.

    Thanks for uploading your tutorials as PDFs too. 

     

    Hexagon 2.5 is free, and they're actually working on it. :)  I know, it does crash a bit, and I don't know what advantages Silo has over Hexagon (though not unlike Daz Studio, Hex actually does more than people think, it just doesn't have great documentation)  But I thought I'd point it out. :)
    I got Hex a while ago as a cheap purchase via the Platinum club, and I've been fairly successful with making clothes with it, especially stuff that's suitable for dForce.  I'd show a render of my latest, but haven't rendered it yet, so this is an older dress that predates Dforce, but still draped beautifully (especially as I jumped it from Genesis to Genesis 3)

    Dynamic Genesis IIi.png
    1600 x 1200 - 1M
  • N_R ArtsN_R Arts Posts: 710

     

    Hexagon 2.5 is free, and they're actually working on it. :)  I know, it does crash a bit, and I don't know what advantages Silo has over Hexagon (though not unlike Daz Studio, Hex actually does more than people think, it just doesn't have great documentation)  But I thought I'd point it out. :)
    I got Hex a while ago as a cheap purchase via the Platinum club, and I've been fairly successful with making clothes with it, especially stuff that's suitable for dForce.  I'd show a render of my latest, but haven't rendered it yet, so this is an older dress that predates Dforce, but still draped beautifully (especially as I jumped it from Genesis to Genesis 3)

     

    That is both a beautiful dress and render.

    I do have Hexagon.  But I see the things that other people do with the likes of Marvelous Designer, Zbrush and Silo, and think that there's better out there.

    To be honest, your dress is the best item of clothing that I've seen, which has been made in Hexagon. So you've given me inspiration to persevere with the program.

    Plus, I've only been making props. I just can't seem to work out which shapes to use for making clothing. 

    f. Apply a dForce dynamic modifier to the cone.

    g. Select the Belt surface and set Contraction-Expansion Ratio to 62%.

     

    This is from the Cone skirt tutorial. 

    I assume I go into the dForce Simulation Settings menu and select dForce --> Add dForce Modifier: Dynamic Surface 

    Do I add it to the whole cone, or just the belt?

    And I can't find the Contraction-Expansion ratio either.

    Thanks for any help.

     

     

     

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,492
    edited June 2018

    f. Apply a dForce dynamic modifier to the cone.

    g. Select the Belt surface and set Contraction-Expansion Ratio to 62%.

     

    This is from the Cone skirt tutorial. 

    I assume I go into the dForce Simulation Settings menu and select dForce --> Add dForce Modifier: Dynamic Surface  YES

    Do I add it to the whole cone, or just the belt? It will be added to the entire cone (belt and dress) IF you created the belt surface before adding the dForce modifier. If you create a new surface after adding the dForce modifier, you'll need to add it again.

    And I can't find the Contraction-Expansion ratio either. Go to the Surfaces pane and expand the surface hierarchy until you see the subsection labeled Simulation. You'll find Contraction-Expansion there just below Density. Each surface has a Simulation subsection, so you can modify the settings surface by surface.

    Thanks for any help.

    The early sections of this thread had more details and screen shots of the various menu actions and how to find them. In later sections I simplified on the most common actions.

     

     

     

    Post edited by RGcincy on
  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,492
    N_R Arts said:

    I love this thread.

    I've been looking at Silo 2, as it's one of the cheapest modellers that is avaliable (at just under £80). But I'm worried that I won't be any good at using it. 

    I have also wanted to make clothes for a while, but I've not been inspired, I've got no idea where to start, and very little confidence in my own ability.

    But thanks to this thread, I finally have a starting point.

    Thanks for uploading your tutorials as PDFs too. 

    Glad you like the thread!

    I got Silo 2.5 on Steam when it was on sale for a lot less than the current sales price. Not sure how often it drops lower. 

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,876
    N_R Arts said:

     

    Hexagon 2.5 is free, and they're actually working on it. :)  I know, it does crash a bit, and I don't know what advantages Silo has over Hexagon (though not unlike Daz Studio, Hex actually does more than people think, it just doesn't have great documentation)  But I thought I'd point it out. :)
    I got Hex a while ago as a cheap purchase via the Platinum club, and I've been fairly successful with making clothes with it, especially stuff that's suitable for dForce.  I'd show a render of my latest, but haven't rendered it yet, so this is an older dress that predates Dforce, but still draped beautifully (especially as I jumped it from Genesis to Genesis 3)

     

    That is both a beautiful dress and render.

    I do have Hexagon.  But I see the things that other people do with the likes of Marvelous Designer, Zbrush and Silo, and think that there's better out there.

    To be honest, your dress is the best item of clothing that I've seen, which has been made in Hexagon. So you've given me inspiration to persevere with the program.

    Plus, I've only been making props. I just can't seem to work out which shapes to use for making clothing. 

    I use cylanders a lot.  Small ones, with lots of edge extruding and moving vertexes around. :)  I also tend to go a while between finishing clothing items, so the outfit I made recently is like the ... 4th thing I've done that I've been happy with completing.  However, I am aware that some store vendors use Hexagon for modeling their clothes  (Or at least did.  The only one I knew for certain was Will DuPree, and he retired sometime around Genesis I think)  So it's not like it's only for beginners/hobbist.

    I only brought up Hexagon because it's free, and while buggy it is a decent program once you learn its quirks, and one thing I have learned is that besides the specifics of where various controls are and what they're called, most of the basic modeling techniques used in any given tutorial can be cross applied no matter what progam you're using.

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,492
    edited July 2018
    RAMWolff said:

    Been making morphs for my cape today but I can NOT get the wind node to cooperate with me on one pose.  I'd like a set up that would create a spread out cape going back.  I've tried to use one under the figure and one on top of the figure to create that wind velocity and while that works sort of the cape just keeps folding in on itself rather than spreading out.  Quite annoying.  I've been at this a couple of hours now but it's time to reach out for some instruction if there is anyone that knows or has other ideas.  

    Thanks so much

    Richard 

    @RAMWolff I finally had a chance to take a look at a cape. I wouldn't say the result shows it spreading out as it goes back but it's also not clumping together.

    44. Flying Cape.The cape is just a primitive plane stuck into the neck just above the shoulders. A dynamic dForce modifier was added. To finish this off, I would add a positive and negative push modifier to get the cape to sit on the shoulders. There are two surfaces created using the geometry editor: a thin strip at the shoulders and then the bulk of the cape. 

    Settings were:

    • Shoulder: dForce surfaces at default except Stretch Stiffness at 0.1, Buckling Stiffness at 80%, and Buckling Ratio at 5%
    • Cape: dForce surfaces at default except Stretch Stiffness at 0.1, Contraction-Expansion Ratio at 110%, and Buckling Ratio at 5%
    • Wind: directed parallel to cape at 1 mph
    • Gravity: -0.02 (to give a slight upward movement)
    • Air Resistance: 0
    • There is a dForce modifier weight node added with no influence painted around the neck

    Two renders, the first with the body and clothing hidden during the simulation, the second with them visible. The body does block the wind so you get a more turbulent result.

    Body Hidden during simulation:

    Body showing  during simulation:

     

    EDIT: Below is a screen capture of the wind node.I also did an animated simulation. The uptick at the end in the first render above  (body hidden) kept moving back and at 40 frames got it that position, I think 45-50 would likely have it disappear but I didn't run it that long.

     

    EDIT 2: See update where using low denisty values alone gave good results.

    dForce cape w-o body.jpg
    600 x 480 - 88K
    dForce cape w body.jpg
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    dForce cape wind.jpg
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    Post edited by RGcincy on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,591

    Thanks so much!  :-) 

  • N_R ArtsN_R Arts Posts: 710
    RGcincy said:

    f. Apply a dForce dynamic modifier to the cone.

    g. Select the Belt surface and set Contraction-Expansion Ratio to 62%.

     

    This is from the Cone skirt tutorial. 

    I assume I go into the dForce Simulation Settings menu and select dForce --> Add dForce Modifier: Dynamic Surface  YES

    Do I add it to the whole cone, or just the belt? It will be added to the entire cone (belt and dress) IF you created the belt surface before adding the dForce modifier. If you create a new surface after adding the dForce modifier, you'll need to add it again.

    And I can't find the Contraction-Expansion ratio either. Go to the Surfaces pane and expand the surface hierarchy until you see the subsection labeled Simulation. You'll find Contraction-Expansion there just below Density. Each surface has a Simulation subsection, so you can modify the settings surface by surface.

    Thanks for any help.

    The early sections of this thread had more details and screen shots of the various menu actions and how to find them. In later sections I simplified on the most common actions.

    Thank for your reply and patience. I've not used dForce very often, let alone to create any clothing with. 

    I've created the skirt and, I'm trying to save it as a prop asset, but Daz keeps crashing. I've made a thread about it, but I don't think there's a solution. I've also created my first material texture for it using GIMP. I haven't had a chance to render it, as I've been trying to make the bandeau top, but it keeps bunching up (or imploding slightly) at the back (I've attached a couple of screenshots).

    I use cylanders a lot.  Small ones, with lots of edge extruding and moving vertexes around. :)  I also tend to go a while between finishing clothing items, so the outfit I made recently is like the ... 4th thing I've done that I've been happy with completing.  However, I am aware that some store vendors use Hexagon for modeling their clothes  (Or at least did.  The only one I knew for certain was Will DuPree, and he retired sometime around Genesis I think)  So it's not like it's only for beginners/hobbist.

    I only brought up Hexagon because it's free, and while buggy it is a decent program once you learn its quirks, and one thing I have learned is that besides the specifics of where various controls are and what they're called, most of the basic modeling techniques used in any given tutorial can be cross applied no matter what progam you're using.

     

    You must have a lot of patience.

    I'm one of those people that like to dive-in head first. I want to start creating right away. But, when I mess up, I take it pretty hard (and normally have to start all over again). 

    Hexagon is a great program. Although there are times when it has driven me mad. 

    I've made a few props with it, but not clothes. At the moment, I'm trying to find out how to make trousers/pants. At some point, I'd like to try and make my own male content.

    bandeau.png
    413 x 489 - 139K
    top.png
    634 x 328 - 84K
  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,492
    N_R Arts said:

    I've created the skirt and, I'm trying to save it as a prop asset, but Daz keeps crashing. I've made a thread about it, but I don't think there's a solution. I've also created my first material texture for it using GIMP. I haven't had a chance to render it, as I've been trying to make the bandeau top, but it keeps bunching up (or imploding slightly) at the back (I've attached a couple of screenshots).

    It looks like part of the bandeau may be intersecting the skin at the start (or during animation) and so is getting locked into place. To test if that's the case, increase the Z or X scale a bit to be sure all is clearing the skin. If that's not a problem, you can try a lower Dynamic Strength (like 0.95 or 0.97) on the middle band material.

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 1,451
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

    I don't have any experience with the primitives in that set, but I use normal primitives quite often to push things around when dForcing stuff. As this set is not too cheap, you might want to play around with the built in primitives a bit to see if You can achieve what you intend with them.

  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,532
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

    I own an Optitex dynamic cloak from the same PAs that worked on the same principle: "Cloth" loops modelled into the fabric, elongated toroid helper props that you were supposed to position inside the loops and then move during animated drape (or parent to the figure's hands, after using a starter pose that would reposition the arms and hands to a place that wouldn't make the cloak freak out when it simulated.) When it worked, it was the most awesome thing ever, but you had to get the helper props positioned *just* so, or they wouldn't hold onto the fabric loops properly. 

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735
    edited June 2018
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

    I don't have any experience with the primitives in that set, but I use normal primitives quite often to push things around when dForcing stuff. As this set is not too cheap, you might want to play around with the built in primitives a bit to see if You can achieve what you intend with them.

    I wasn't going to buy the set (yikes), but was wondering if it could be done in dforce.

     

    Odaa said:
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

    I own an Optitex dynamic cloak from the same PAs that worked on the same principle: "Cloth" loops modelled into the fabric, elongated toroid helper props that you were supposed to position inside the loops and then move during animated drape (or parent to the figure's hands, after using a starter pose that would reposition the arms and hands to a place that wouldn't make the cloak freak out when it simulated.) When it worked, it was the most awesome thing ever, but you had to get the helper props positioned *just* so, or they wouldn't hold onto the fabric loops properly. 

    I don't have any modeling knowledge, so I wouldn't be able to model things into the fabric.  I just thought I could add a torus and figure out how to make the 'cloth' drape through it.  Way beyond my skill set.  That's why I was wondering if it's doable or not. I have some Optitex stuff, but not the cloak. frown


     

    !!_V4 dynamic clothing.JPG
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    Post edited by sapat on
  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 2,907
    sapat said:
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

    I don't have any experience with the primitives in that set, but I use normal primitives quite often to push things around when dForcing stuff. As this set is not too cheap, you might want to play around with the built in primitives a bit to see if You can achieve what you intend with them.

    I wasn't going to buy the set (yikes), but was wondering if it could be done in dforce.

     

    Odaa said:
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

    I own an Optitex dynamic cloak from the same PAs that worked on the same principle: "Cloth" loops modelled into the fabric, elongated toroid helper props that you were supposed to position inside the loops and then move during animated drape (or parent to the figure's hands, after using a starter pose that would reposition the arms and hands to a place that wouldn't make the cloak freak out when it simulated.) When it worked, it was the most awesome thing ever, but you had to get the helper props positioned *just* so, or they wouldn't hold onto the fabric loops properly. 

    I don't have any modeling knowledge, so I wouldn't be able to model things into the fabric.  I just thought I could add a torus and figure out how to make the 'cloth' drape through it.  Way beyond my skill set.  That's why I was wondering if it's doable or not. I have some Optitex stuff, but not the cloak. frown


     

    Concerning that set there is this notation on it This product is currently incompatible with DAZ Studio 4.6 and up.

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735
    sapat said:
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

    I don't have any experience with the primitives in that set, but I use normal primitives quite often to push things around when dForcing stuff. As this set is not too cheap, you might want to play around with the built in primitives a bit to see if You can achieve what you intend with them.

    I wasn't going to buy the set (yikes), but was wondering if it could be done in dforce.

     

    Odaa said:
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

    I own an Optitex dynamic cloak from the same PAs that worked on the same principle: "Cloth" loops modelled into the fabric, elongated toroid helper props that you were supposed to position inside the loops and then move during animated drape (or parent to the figure's hands, after using a starter pose that would reposition the arms and hands to a place that wouldn't make the cloak freak out when it simulated.) When it worked, it was the most awesome thing ever, but you had to get the helper props positioned *just* so, or they wouldn't hold onto the fabric loops properly. 

    I don't have any modeling knowledge, so I wouldn't be able to model things into the fabric.  I just thought I could add a torus and figure out how to make the 'cloth' drape through it.  Way beyond my skill set.  That's why I was wondering if it's doable or not. I have some Optitex stuff, but not the cloak. frown


     

    Concerning that set there is this notation on it This product is currently incompatible with DAZ Studio 4.6 and up.

    Another reason not to buy it....other than the price.  Thanks, I didn't see that.

  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,532
    sapat said:
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

    I don't have any experience with the primitives in that set, but I use normal primitives quite often to push things around when dForcing stuff. As this set is not too cheap, you might want to play around with the built in primitives a bit to see if You can achieve what you intend with them.

    I wasn't going to buy the set (yikes), but was wondering if it could be done in dforce.

     

    Odaa said:
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    https://www.daz3d.com/controllable-dynamic-shapes

    I own an Optitex dynamic cloak from the same PAs that worked on the same principle: "Cloth" loops modelled into the fabric, elongated toroid helper props that you were supposed to position inside the loops and then move during animated drape (or parent to the figure's hands, after using a starter pose that would reposition the arms and hands to a place that wouldn't make the cloak freak out when it simulated.) When it worked, it was the most awesome thing ever, but you had to get the helper props positioned *just* so, or they wouldn't hold onto the fabric loops properly. 

    I don't have any modeling knowledge, so I wouldn't be able to model things into the fabric.  I just thought I could add a torus and figure out how to make the 'cloth' drape through it.  Way beyond my skill set.  That's why I was wondering if it's doable or not. I have some Optitex stuff, but not the cloak. frown


     

    Dforce really doesn't like things poking directly through (intersecting with) the mesh of the dynamic object (as opposed to things touching the dynamic object and letting the dynamic object drape around the static one). Taking a static prop that's just kind of touching the dynamic object at the start of an animated sequence and then moving the static prop to a different position so that the dynamic object follows it...that should be doable. I'm just skeptical about how well it would work with the static object intersecting the dynamic mesh.

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,492
    edited June 2018
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    Funny you should ask. About a week and a half ago I started playing around with helper primitives. The thought was you could use animated primitive(s) to move fabric around during the simulation, and then hide them at the end. It worked but I haven't had time to properly document it for a tutorial yet. In the meantime, here's a couple of screen shots and a render to show what's possible.

    45. Cylinder Helpers. These are primitives used to move fabric around. Part of the fabric is embedded in an animated primitive and moves with along with it. Start with a primitive plane with two primitive cylinders positioned at either end. The plane has a dForce modifier added, the cylinders do not. The cylinders are animated, the plane is not - it follows along as the ends are stuck to the cylinders.

    Frame 0:                                             Frame 4:                                              Frame 8:

       

    Frame 12:                                         Frame 16:                                    Frame 20:

      

    Finished Render:

    EDIT: I rearranged the original to put it in a format more consistent with previous topics.

    dForce shawl frame 0.jpg
    319 x 482 - 35K
    dForce shawl frame 4.jpg
    340 x 482 - 34K
    dForce shawl frame 8.jpg
    342 x 467 - 32K
    dForce shawl frame 12.jpg
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    dForce shawl frame 16.jpg
    283 x 466 - 30K
    dForce shawl frame 20.jpg
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    dForce shawl.jpg
    608 x 760 - 241K
    Post edited by RGcincy on
  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 1,451
    RGcincy said:
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    Funny you should ask. About a week and a half ago I started playing around with helper primitives. The thought was you could use animated primitive(s) to move fabric around during the simulation, and then hide them at the end. It worked but I haven't had time to properly document it for a tutorial yet. In the meantime, here's a couple of screen shots and a render to show what's possible. It starts with a primitive plane with two cylinders at either end. The plane has a dForce modifier added, the cylinders do not. The cylinders are animated, the plane is not but follows along as the ends are stuck to the cylinders.

    Great "tutorial" yes

    Just want to add, that

    a) the two "control" cylinders are only interjecting with the plane and are in no way physically connected to it. DForce makes the plane "stick" to them
    b) to change the flow of the plane you can use a different scales and angles for the cylinders during parts of the "animation" and/or different properties for the plane (set in the "simulation" part of the surface tab).

  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 3,890

    @RGcincy "the plane is not but follows along as the ends are stuck to the cylinders"

    @maikdecker "DForce makes the plane "stick" to them"

    Wait a sec. How do you do that, or does dForce do it "automagically"?

  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,532
    RGcincy said:
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    Funny you should ask. About a week and a half ago I started playing around with helper primitives. The thought was you could use animated primitive(s) to move fabric around during the simulation, and then hide them at the end. It worked but I haven't had time to properly document it for a tutorial yet. In the meantime, here's a couple of screen shots and a render to show what's possible. It starts with a primitive plane with two cylinders at either end. The plane has a dForce modifier added, the cylinders do not. The cylinders are animated, the plane is not but follows along as the ends are stuck to the cylinders.

    Finished Render:

    Frame 0:                                             Frame 4:                                              Frame 8:

       

    Frame 12:                                         Frame 16:                                    Frame 20:

      

     

    Wow awesome, I would not have thought that possible!

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,492

    Great "tutorial" yes

    Just want to add, that

    a) the two "control" cylinders are only interjecting with the plane and are in no way physically connected to it. DForce makes the plane "stick" to them
    b) to change the flow of the plane you can use a different scales and angles for the cylinders during parts of the "animation" and/or different properties for the plane (set in the "simulation" part of the surface tab).

    Good clarification! The cylinders are just there, sitting with the ends of the plane stuck into them. The plane is not parented to the cylinders. As you move the cylinder, the plane will follow along because its end is stuck inside. The movement will cause air effects to be applied to the plane even thought there is no wind node. Gravity is also being applied at the same time, so the speed the cylinders move affect the result. 

     

    fastbike1 said:

    @RGcincy "the plane is not but follows along as the ends are stuck to the cylinders"

    @maikdecker "DForce makes the plane "stick" to them"

    Wait a sec. How do you do that, or does dForce do it "automagically"?

    dForce just does it. It is a benefit and a curse. The curse comes if you have a part of clothing embedded inside a figure at frame 0, that part gets stuck and you'll get funny draping.

     

    Odaa said:

    Wow awesome, I would not have thought that possible!

    I wasn't sure it would work when I first tried it. It would be nice if you could somehow "release" the effect of the cylinder near the end of the simulation so gravity could affect the final positioning.

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,492
    edited June 2018

    46. Cylinder Helpers - Part 2. This illustrates how embedding the end of a plane into a cylinder results in the plane following the animated primitive. In the illustration below, one plane is embedded while the other is not. 

    • Create two cylinders. No dForce modifier.
    • Create two planes, add a dynamic dForce modifier to both.
    • No parenting.
    • On the animation timeline, the cylinders move to the left. No animation of the planes.
    • In the front pair, the plane is not embedded nor is it touching the cylinder.
    • In the back pair, the plane is embedded in the cylinder (in this case, all the way through so a small amount is sticking out the far side).
    • Air Resistance is default 0.15.
    • Gravity is 0.1, just so everything doesn't fall too fast.

    Animation setup Frame 0:                                              Animation setup Frame 20:

      

    Simulation Frame 0:                                                      Simulation Frame 4:

      

    Simulation Frame 16:                                                    Simulation Frame 20:

      

    As you can see, the non embedded plane is left behind while the embedded plane moves and experiences some distortion from the movement.

    In the following image, the front plane was just barely inside the cylinder. This shows you don't need to fully embed it to get the result. Since less is in the cylinder, you get slightly different draping.

    EDIT: Original text slightly modified to follow the format used on previous sections.

    dForce embedded cylinder anim setup frame 0.jpg
    434 x 225 - 17K
    dForce embedded cylinder anim setup frame 20.jpg
    508 x 243 - 19K
    dForce embedded cylinder frame 0.jpg
    458 x 239 - 34K
    dForce embedded cylinder frame 4.jpg
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    dForce embedded cylinder frame 16.jpg
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    dForce embedded cylinder frame 20.jpg
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    dForce embedded cylinder slight touch.jpg
    532 x 474 - 56K
    Post edited by RGcincy on
  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,532
    RGcincy said:
     
    Odaa said:

    Wow awesome, I would not have thought that possible!

    I wasn't sure it would work when I first tried it. It would be nice if you could somehow "release" the effect of the cylinder near the end of the simulation so gravity could affect the final positioning.

    Well, you can setup a custom animation range for an animated simulation...maybe set the cylinders' final position at frame 25, simulate frames 1-25, then hide the cylinders and simulate 26-30? Or is it just going to freak out and try to resimulate from scratch on frame 26-30, and lose all the work you've already done?

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,492
    Odaa said:
    Or is it just going to freak out and try to resimulate from scratch on frame 26-30, and lose all the work you've already done?

    It freaks out.

    You could animate to the end, hide the cylinders and export the plane as an object, then reimport as a morph and simulate from there. A bit of work though.

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735
    RGcincy said:
    sapat said:

    Rich, I have a question.  I was browsing through the store and happened on a product that used primitives to control the movement of (mostly) fabrics, but is this something that dforce could do?  Like use the primitive to shape the fabric then remove it after the sim?  Or the very least make it invisible?  What do you think?

    Funny you should ask. About a week and a half ago I started playing around with helper primitives. The thought was you could use animated primitive(s) to move fabric around during the simulation, and then hide them at the end. It worked but I haven't had time to properly document it for a tutorial yet. In the meantime, here's a couple of screen shots and a render to show what's possible. It starts with a primitive plane with two cylinders at either end. The plane has a dForce modifier added, the cylinders do not. The cylinders are animated, the plane is not but follows along as the ends are stuck to the cylinders.

    Rich....what are the odds that you've been working on this at the same time I saw a version of it in the store?  So it appears that it is doable then.  Great news! 

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,492
    sapat said:

    Rich....what are the odds that you've been working on this at the same time I saw a version of it in the store?  So it appears that it is doable then.  Great news! 

    One of those coinicidences that also show no idea is unique!

    I'm not sure if the idea of torus-like helper props that are shown in the product you reference work in dForce..From the few promo images I can't tell how they are suppose to function.

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,492
    edited June 2018

    47. Sphere Helper. I took a look at a using a sphere to move a cloth into a torus and then draping it down. I wouldn't call the torus a helper as it's the sphere that is doing the work. The result is like a washcloth hanging from a circular towel rack.

    • Create a 12 inch plane with 50 divisions, add a dynamic dForce modifier. Add a smoothing modifier too.
    • Create a 1 inch sphere with 16 sides and 16 divisions and embed it in the top of the plane.
    • Create a 4 inch torus with 250 segments and 32 sides. I used such a high number as it helps keep the cloth from sliding into the torus. Angle it as 90 degrees. Add a static dForce modifier and set Friction to 0.001
    • Set up an animation that raises the sphere to the same height as the top of the torus, then moves it through the opening, then moves it down and around. The cloth will be held back by the surface of the torus even with the low gravity. You have to experiment to see how far you can pull the cloth with the sphere before the cloth by the sphere starts to deform too much.

    Frame 0:   

    Frame 4:                                                                        Frame 10:   

      

    Frame 16:                                        Frame 20:

      

    Frame 24:                                     Frame 30:

      

    Render:

     

    dForce torus cloth frame 0.jpg
    509 x 348 - 23K
    dForce torus cloth frame 4.jpg
    453 x 377 - 37K
    dForce torus cloth frame 10.jpg
    345 x 388 - 23K
    dForce torus cloth frame 16.jpg
    297 x 390 - 22K
    dForce torus cloth frame 20.jpg
    277 x 384 - 22K
    dForce torus cloth frame 24.jpg
    260 x 359 - 16K
    dForce torus cloth frame 30.jpg
    261 x 399 - 15K
    dForce torus cloth.jpg
    608 x 760 - 154K
    Post edited by RGcincy on
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