Garibaldi Express: Hair and Fur Plugin [Commercial]

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,986

    btw - after the Garibaldi wearable presets have been created, they can be loaded on "normal" G3 figures, no need to keep using the Collapsed UVSets until making more hair of course ;-)

  • Gone said:

    Ok - looks like the TRT is too high. The TRT is the overall shine on the hair, similar to the glossy setting in the standard shader. You may want to play with intensity, colour, and blend values. The blend value determines how much of the blend colour is combined with the base/tip colour set in the Garibaldi distribution pane. The closer the value is to 1 the more blend colour is used (in this case white). The closer to 0 the more base/tip colour is used.

    It looks like the hair is pointing straight up so the hair facing ith camera is like looking at a needle straight on so you aren't going to see much. There are several choices here.

    - you can increase the length slightly then apply a bit of curl so the camera will always see some edge rather than looking straight down the tip.

    - you can change the seg length so you can apply some curl without lengthening the hair (or a combination of both).

    - you can significantly increase the base width of the hair to provide more surface coverage while the tip remains the same to show individual hair.

    In the lion image I posed on the previous page, for the main fur, I used longer hair curled over close to the body with a density amount of 20 and base/tip settings of 0.08/0.04.

    Ok, so I've introduced some curl and played around with the blend settings and we're getting better.

    Base width is maxed, but I can always enter a higher value and I'll try that after work tonight. My only issue is that it takes 10 minutes to test render. Oh, well; nothing new in the world of 3D rendering.

    Specularity is just about right now too.

    Thanks for the tips, all. I've got a good idea where to go from here now.

  • One other question? What exactly does TRT mean?

    From the diagram in the docs, I'd guess it's Transmission-Reflection-Transmission; i.e. the light ray passes through, part of the ray reflects on the opposite edge, the transmits out another point on the original entry edge.

    That would make the Primary Specular (R), "Reflection" and the Transmission (TT), "Transmission-Transmission" (i.e. Light ray passes in one edge and out the other.

    In image terms, for the non-physicists, R is the normal, usually white, specular highlight; TT is the colour as seen with the light behind it; and TRT is the colour when the light is reflected back.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,489
    Kerya said:
    Iray is not Nvidia-only. It has the ability to render in Nvidia GPU, but you can otherwise render with CPU regardless. And while that is often slower, and usually slower than 3dl, that varies a bit.

     

    But if you want to use Garibaldi (or LAMH) hair, you have to use 3Delight (or export as a very, very, very, very, very big obj and use that).

    ? reference to "very, very, very, very big ..."

    If you mean as in super large, after exporting it out of the plugin, in D/S import it in using the D/S settings for 1 cm. Should be landing on the head.

    If you mean "weight" ... little trick sometimes helps; after importing it into D/S {and it lands where it should}, empty the rest of the scene and export out the hair .obj again using "whatever normal settings you do for making clothing etc." Clear the scene. Import in that new .obj file. Sometimes it can be as much as half the weight. Bring in the figure and make the hair figure/prop. This trick works with .obj files created in Hexagon, how well it works with other .obj files would depend upon how they were made in the other programs.

     

    I meant the number of polygons ...

    But your trick of exporting and importing again sounds neat. I will have to try that (when I have a bit of time). Thank you!

  • One other question? What exactly does TRT mean?

    From the diagram in the docs, I'd guess it's Transmission-Reflection-Transmission; i.e. the light ray passes through, part of the ray reflects on the opposite edge, the transmits out another point on the original entry edge.

    That would make the Primary Specular (R), "Reflection" and the Transmission (TT), "Transmission-Transmission" (i.e. Light ray passes in one edge and out the other.

    In image terms, for the non-physicists, R is the normal, usually white, specular highlight; TT is the colour as seen with the light behind it; and TRT is the colour when the light is reflected back.

    Yes, you're right.

    Here's the original paper most hair shaders are based on today, in case you're curious: http://www.graphics.stanford.edu/papers/hair/hair-sg03final.pdf

    Note that these params handle reflection and transmission, but not actual scattering within the hair fiber (which gives colour to lighter hair). So this is why there is a "diffuse" term in the shader, too.

  • Hellllooooooooooo...

    Not sure how active this thread is but I've just scrolled through so much of it my head's spinning. I need to do some braids. I've started them but outside of adding some curl and then attempting to manually comb strands into a braid-like style... well... time consuming. Just wondering if anyone else has attempted braids and if there are any hints/tips/tricks???

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,876
    edited December 2015

    Yes - don't do braids with a hair app!  They will be far easier to make in a modelling program.

    Post edited by PhilW on
  • PhilW said:

    Yes - don't do braids with a hair app!  They will be far easier to make in a modelling program.

    Aw, c'mon, where's the fun in that?
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,876

    Well you asked for hints and tips - I have tried doing braids as dynamic soft body objects and they have a tendancy to just unravel when the dynamic simulation has run.  If it is helpful, each strand of a braid basically traces a figure of eight when viewed along the axis of the braid (so from above if the braid is vertical) and a typical braid has three strands, so each strand is identical but offset by a third of a complete figure of eight.  Best of luck!

  • PhilW said:

    Well you asked for hints and tips - I have tried doing braids as dynamic soft body objects and they have a tendancy to just unravel when the dynamic simulation has run.  If it is helpful, each strand of a braid basically traces a figure of eight when viewed along the axis of the braid (so from above if the braid is vertical) and a typical braid has three strands, so each strand is identical but offset by a third of a complete figure of eight.  Best of luck!

    Thanks, Phil. I did consider modelling them, but was hoping there might be some trick to forming them in GE. I'm pretty good at braiding my own hair. A dwarf's mustache... not so much.

  • LIVALIVA Posts: 112

    Bought it.

    Software needs a serial number.

    Mistery

    Where is it?

  • LIVALIVA Posts: 112

    Pain in Butty. With no serial number i cant start DAZ3D.

    If i click exit the plugin will be deactivated :-(

     

     

  • GoneGone Posts: 793

    The serial number should be in the list of serial numbers under your account page.

  • LIVALIVA Posts: 112

    Thank you, all my sorrows are GONE :-D

    Merry Christmas in 3D!

  • LIVALIVA Posts: 112
    marble said:

    Two images here comparing Studio Render and Reality - which only ran for 23 minutes but you get the idea.

    This means, if i render in DAZ3D i dont see shadows?

    Can i use Iray to render?

  • LIVA said:

    This means, if i render in DAZ3D i dont see shadows?

    Can i use Iray to render?

    I believe the only way to render in IRay is to export the hair from GE as an object, bring it in, shade it, texture it, etc. I know there was quite a bit of discussion on that earlier in this thread. Back in the page 30ish area, maybe????

  • LIVALIVA Posts: 112
    edited December 2015

    eeeep, thats a big downer then. I hope that problem will be solved soon.

    The old render engine style looks too cartoonish for my taste.

    If i have to do that export / import / retexture hazzle i can create hair in Cinema 4D and import to DAZ3D.

    I thought the Garibaldi Hair is a professional solution to use DAZ3D internal and works with the state of the art quality features.

    Will better put it on ice then and wait until this tool has matured.

     

    Post edited by LIVA on
  • LIVA said:

    eeeep, thats a big downer then. I hope that problem will be solved soon.

    The old render engine style looks too cartoonish for my taste.

    If i have to do that export / import / retexture hazzle i can create hair in Cinema 4D and import to DAZ3D.

    I thought the Garibaldi Hair is a professional solution to use DAZ3D internal and works with the state of the art quality features.

    Will better put it on ice then and wait until this tool has matured.

     

    Perhaps it's your settings that make the hair look cartoonish?? I've seen some pretty phenominal renders of the hair so I have to believe it's possible. I'm still very much a rooky even though I've had it for quite some time. I'm beginning to play with it again for some characters I'm developing. Even if I do a bit of tweaking in post process, I like ot have the hair there to begin with. Particularly facial hair.

  • GoneGone Posts: 793

    There are still plenty of professionals that use Renderman compliant render engines. 3dl (the original DS render engine) is Renderman compliant.

    Garibaldi was created at a time when 3dl was the only render engine in DS and uses the Renderman strand hair system (RiCurves). Iray currently does not support any strand hair system so the only way to do hair in Iray is to use object based hair - regardless of how it was originally created.

  • LIVALIVA Posts: 112

    Oh, sorry, i didnt mean the look of the hair with cartoonish. I mean the look of skin.

  • LIVA said:

    Oh, sorry, i didnt mean the look of the hair with cartoonish. I mean the look of skin.

     

    Maybe you just haven't seen it done right. Check out Wowie's work. If you like it, he is a vendor here. http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/users/181/
  • LIVALIVA Posts: 112
    edited December 2015

    That looks really great but not like a rl photography. it's different.

    Its the subsurfaces i think.

    I think if the older standard would give us photo realistic results DAZ3D would not invest so much effort and money in Iray technology.

    Iray quality looks like Cinema 4D standard rendering if done right.

     

    We can do a great artwork as long it has its own cartoonish look / style.

     

    99% photo realistic is worse than 80% when it comes to photo realistic works. That's the uncanny valley effect.

     

    In our closed community we judge our works relative to "its freeware" and we all spend a lot effort, money and time.

    In open jury our works must be competative to Hollywood standard.

     

    Post edited by LIVA on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 1,542

    There's always compositing. For complex hair I have rendered it in 3delight and then composited it on top of a character rendered in Iray. As long as you're moderately comfortable with postwork, its not too difficult

     

    This render here for instance has hair rendered in 3delight skin in Iray (and the background was rendered in blender)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,191

    ...crikey, that almost looks like the hair for the character Merida.  How long did it take to create that (and was it done in Garibaldi?).

    Yeah my compositing skills are pretty poor (particularly with fine detailed images like hair where I tend to always get a "fringe" around it) and I don't have PS.

  • LIVA said:

    Its the subsurfaces i think.

    In open jury our works must be competative to Hollywood standard.

    What you find lacking in most DAZ Studio 3DL renders but present in Iray is likely to be not SSS but global illumination in the sense of indirect light. It's the biggest difference. But it's not an inherent limitation of 3Delight - it's the limitation of the shaders shipping with DS. 

    The funny thing is that 3Delight has actually been used in "Hollywood" (film industry in general) for years (not via DAZ Studio, of course, but via the Maya plugin most often). If you click the link in my signature, it will take you to the developers' webpage with a list of projects. There was also at least one project where a digital double of an actor was made... https://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/light-stage-brings-the-robot-to-life-in-india/?ua=ipad

    The learning curve to get the max out of 3DL is steep compared to Iray - because Iray seems to have been designed with a one-man studio in mind (think a lot of archviz work), while 3Delight is geared more towards teamwork with a dedicated shader writer ("technical director"), which is quite common in VFX studios.

    To avoid hijacking this thread any further (for which I apologize to everyone), I invite you to check out our dedicated 3DL laboratory. www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/55128/3delight-laboratory-thread-tips-questions-experiments/p1

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,191
    edited December 2015

    ...already did as well as the scripted rendering thread and most of it just went Whooooosh! right over my head like a low flying X-Wing   I know 3DL/Renderman is powerful, the latter is what Pixar uses. I just don't have that kind of technical mind to deal with all the nuts & bolts.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • kyoto kid said:

    ...most of it just went Whooooosh! right over my head like a low flying X-Wing 

    *snork* Love it. ;)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,191

    ...yeah, saw the new Star Wars yesterday.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,876

    I saw it last week - but I wouldn't mind seeing it again...

  • Is it possible to increase the hair density above 500?

    I am modelling a ponytail using a separate prop to spawn the ponytail itself (as described earlier). Works well, but as the prop is quite small, the hair density in the ponytail is quite low.

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