Tutorial Uber Area Lighting: The Basics

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  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited December 1969

    prixat said:
    Zarcon, the Glow shader was suggested as a way to mimic the 'bloom' on a candle flame without postwork.

    WOW!! That's perfect! How did you do that?! Exactly what i am looking for

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    Hey everyone looking to get "glow" sans postwork!

    Volumetrics are great, but slow. Here's a faster suggestion...
    In the Shader Builder pane, go to "Surface" - "Renderman Companion", select "Glow" and compile it. Then create a primitive, like a sphere, and apply this shader to its surface. It basically is ambient with a softer edge and can look very cool without a hit in the render time. Adjust the "Attenuation" parameter to control the falloff. See the quick render attached for how it can look =D --


    I'll secon that, how did you do that? What is a "Shader Builder pane", and where is it? If that is what you used Prixat?
  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,583
    edited June 2014

    Yes, that was done with the Glow shader in Shader Builder as Silver Fox suggested.

    1-create a primitive
    2-select the surface
    3- Shader Builder is the next one down from Shader mixer.
    4-find the Glow shader
    5-If you selected the surface correctly in step 2 then right click will offer you the 'Apply' option.

    The rest depends on your particular needs...
    I used a point light in the middle of the Glow, with a high shadow softness.
    UberEnvironment with it's Candle map
    etc.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    O.K. need to right-click and "ad pain" that (shader builder) to the pane.
    I don't have that right column of icons.

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    Do I put the point light in the center of the primitive (sphere), or behind it?
    should I mess with the opacity of the primitive? Or leave it at 100% opacity?

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  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,583
    edited December 1969

    I centred the light and sphere and put them in place of the flame.

    If you want to use the shadow of the point light like I did then the sphere has to be transparent.
    Attenuation set to 10 on the sphere, worked for me.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    O.K. the center of the light and effect-sphere is at the top of the wic.
    the red part is 1ft tall, and the size of the effect sphere-primitive is also the same size (1 ft).
    Opacity of the effect-sphere is 0%
    point light was the default settings, nothing touched.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,583
    edited December 1969

    I got some unwanted effects if I let the sphere intersect other objects.
    Looks like you might be getting something similar with the vertical edge of the box disappearing.

    ...unless it looks good, in which case just pretend it was what you intended all along. :-)

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    here's what it looks like without that effect-sphere-primitive. Awfully small point light, lol.
    (edit)
    we doubled. that might be the gloss of the tile texture on that cube, or as you say, the sphere is in there a bit.
    The point light is at 100% intensity, white, etc. I forgot to set ray-trace shadows on that, oops.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    O.K. backed off the cube, and turned on ray-trace.
    with and without the effect-sphere-primitive,
    (edit)
    I had a light on that side as well, I just turned it off, will replace these pics in a sec.
    There we go!

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,583
    edited December 1969

    Try 5% softness on the point light shadow.

    Are you using ue2?

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    sorry, got sucked into tv. It is just a plane old point light, nothing special. soft shadows would add to the effect, also having an uneven top to the candle perimeter would (like melted wax).

    ue2 ? yes I'm that new, lol. what is "UE2"? Uber something?
    (edit)
    Uber Environment ?
    no, that's just "The Box" from the former post, no Uber anything lights.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/632951/

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited December 1969

    prixat said:
    Yes, that was done with the Glow shader in Shader Builder as Silver Fox suggested.

    1-create a primitive
    2-select the surface
    3- Shader Builder is the next one down from Shader mixer.
    4-find the Glow shader
    5-If you selected the surface correctly in step 2 then right click will offer you the 'Apply' option.

    The rest depends on your particular needs...
    I used a point light in the middle of the Glow, with a high shadow softness.
    UberEnvironment with it's Candle map
    etc.

    I don't have Shader Builder (it's presumably something you have bought, as it's not in my DAZ Studio installation). You say it's the next one down from Shader Mixer - only if you have that installed! On my content library, the next one down from shader mixer is Sperhic Labs!

  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,583
    edited December 1969

    I'm using the 'City Limits' Layout in case that makes a difference.

    Shader Builder is included in Studio Pro and since it's free, everybody can have the Pro version

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    right click the blank part of either pain, "Add pain (Tab)"
    (edit)
    or

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited December 1969

    right click the blank part of either pain, "Add pain (Tab)"
    (edit)
    or

    OMG! there's all kinds of extra tabs you can add! How come I didn't know this? I've been using DS for two years! What cool things am I missing??

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    "Sperhic Labs", now that I don't see. Are we on different Studio versions? Or is that an Add-On?

  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,583
    edited December 1969

    Spheric Labs is the Luxus plugin.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    I added that tab in the "Actors, Wardrobe & Props" 'Room' (Activity tab), as that is where the surfaces tab is in my default setup.
    (edit)
    B.T.W. I didn't save that candle scene from the former page. So I can make it from scratch again, lol.
    I was just checking out the effect, with a regular point light. thinking about some free lanterns I picked up, with no flame in them.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    Before you mess with the interface setup to much...
    "Save The Universe"

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  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited June 2014

    wow! this works fantastically! But tell me... how did you find all these new shaders? I had no idea there was even something called shader builder and that it was full of all kinds of cool extra shaders?! How did you know that?

    (and more disturbingly, what other amazing goodies could be hidden in this program and why are they not on the regular menus?!)

    Post edited by Sertorial on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    Don't know about the shades, as for the 'Rooms' (Activity tabs). I stumbled across it when I asked about how to do face morphing, and kind of fumbled threw it. That 'FaceMorph101' thing in my screen-caps, I ended up adding that, for dual view of stuff.

    A funny read threw if I may say, lol.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/40556/

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    "O" before I forget. Thanks Mustakettu85 & prixat, and Sertorial (for asking about that light effect), and Szark.
    I need to try to make a simple light fixture now, using that Uber-Light-Cam thing.

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    edited December 1969

    I added that tab in the "Actors, Wardrobe & Props" 'Room' (Activity tab), as that is where the surfaces tab is in my default setup.

    A word of caution here: not everyone will see what you're seeing. I use the Layout set to "City Limits" and the Style set to "Highway" since it's the only way I can get as close as possible to the way things looked and worked in D|S3 — I literally can't use the rooms/activity tabs, I don't think or work that way — and a lot of the old-timers here have D|S set up in similar ways. The problem is, many people starting out in D|S with a clean install just stick with the default "for beginners" layout, never realising that this is a limited version of the full interface and doesn't let you see all of the features.

    I won't say "my way is the best way" of course (because that's only true for me), but it is important to keep in mind that the D|S interface can be set up in almost any way you might fancy. Some are good for learning the basics of the program, some are good for efficiently using the advanced features. It all depends on what you're most comfortable using, and which layout lets you work most efficiently.

    Oh, and thanks a lot to Prixat and everyone else who provided the info on setting up that Glow shader, I've never used the Shader Builder before, so I didn't realise it could do that. Just ran a few quick test renders and (with a few parameter tweaks) it works beautifully! :cheese:

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited December 1969

    I added that tab in the "Actors, Wardrobe & Props" 'Room' (Activity tab), as that is where the surfaces tab is in my default setup.

    A word of caution here: not everyone will see what you're seeing. I use the Layout set to "City Limits" and the Style set to "Highway" since it's the only way I can get as close as possible to the way things looked and worked in D|S3 — I literally can't use the rooms/activity tabs, I don't think or work that way — and a lot of the old-timers here have D|S set up in similar ways. The problem is, many people starting out in D|S with a clean install just stick with the default "for beginners" layout, never realising that this is a limited version of the full interface and doesn't let you see all of the features.

    I won't say "my way is the best way" of course (because that's only true for me), but it is important to keep in mind that the D|S interface can be set up in almost any way you might fancy. Some are good for learning the basics of the program, some are good for efficiently using the advanced features. It all depends on what you're most comfortable using, and which layout lets you work most efficiently.

    Oh, and thanks a lot to Prixat and everyone else who provided the info on setting up that Glow shader, I've never used the Shader Builder before, so I didn't realise it could do that. Just ran a few quick test renders and (with a few parameter tweaks) it works beautifully! :cheese:

    I don't know what people mean when they refer to "rooms" but I have never changed the layout of DAZ since i first started learning it. I guess I am afraid I will lose something or confuse myself (as it's been a painful process getting to grips with this immensely complex artform as well as a new piece of highly complicated software). I am not sure what my layout is called, but it's the one that DAZ first comes with. Should I be using a different one then? I seem to be able to add tabs quite easily (such as this new shader builder thingy) provided I know they exist, of course!

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    I wont say yea or nay, to changing your layout. However I figured that was the confusion. I stick with this layout for the very reasons you describe, not wanting to get confused any more then I already am.

    That and most of the Daz Studio 4.6 tutorial vids, are in this layout I'm using, not some other one.

    In my opinion, if you know the program threw and threw, then change it as you like, other wise stick with the simpler one to learn for beginners.
    (edit)
    don't put me threw yet another "Multi-Axis Trainer" experience, with showing me buttons I can't find easily, lol.

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    Back to Uber Lights.

    What color setting in the surface tab, do I use to change the color of the light? All of them?

    What is that Samples thing actually do? Is it the number of points on the panel that emit light, the number of rays emitted from each pixel on the surface, or something else?

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Again I sincerely apologise for my absence. On top of getting over heat stroke or boiler went pop and had to get a new one installed. So I have been running around moving stuff for the new installation and at night I have even turned on the PC.

    Thanks to everyone who helped in my absence it really made my day today reading through the pages. Yes the thread has been a little side tracked but from the Uber Light questions posed I see what the original text is missing. Which will make the rewrite all that much better.

    prixat man thanks for that Glow solution. I got to try that out soon.

    I'm equally confused about this light texture surface thing. I want to work with real light rays coming from a real "softbox" light, eventually. It really sounds like your saying (to an outsider / freshman / me), The lights don't emit light, they make All the other surfaces in the scene Glow on there own without any regard to where the light was supposed to come from???
    that's not exactly what I'm seeing in the render???

    Sorry I am not sure how you got there but no that is not what I meant in any of my posts. Which part of my comments does this refer to just so I can try to understand why you think that.

    I see that you are getting somewhere now from reading you posts. You did have a lot of light pouring in to the scene. ;)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Back to Uber Lights.

    What color setting in the surface tab, do I use to change the color of the light? All of them?

    What is that Samples thing actually do? Is it the number of points on the panel that emit light, the number of rays emitted from each pixel on the surface, or something else?


    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14536/#211165 in pic one down towards the bottom have of the settings is Light Intensity and Colour channels, that is you light colour. Remember Ambient does emit light in DS, it is only a visual effect not a light emitting effect, the same as Diffuse colour.

    Samples is where the render engine will sample one pixel and render it, the more samples it takes of one pixel the better quality that pixel should be. It is all about coding and calculations in how the render engine works. For certain things like Area light, Sub Surface Scattering etc you may need more samples. It doesn't mean that you should max out the settings for every render, it depends on what lights are being used and what the surfaces are.

    I have been working on a image recently and got some nice soft shadows from some of AOA's lights at low samples settings. As soon as I added the Uber Environment Global Illumination light the AOA's shadow and surface samples had to go a lot higher than the default.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    light surfaces, it was a merging of all the posts up to that point, nothing in your first page wright-up. lol.
    Some comment about "Uber light panels don't actually cast light, it is a surface effect."
    It made no sense to ma at all, thus my confusion with how Uber lights illuminate a surface.

    Hens the name, Magnesium-Candle, lol. I forgot to turn off the lights on that side, and left the point light at 100% intensity at point-blank range.
    (Edit)
    I got four Uber-panels here in place of three spot-lights. Much to learn about that fall-off with the lights at some distance away.

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