Tutorial Uber Area Lighting: The Basics

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  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Ambient will not make the light brighter...ambient in DS is a visual effect. You need to increase light Intensity to get brighter light. I show the light intensity adjuster in http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14536/ pic one. :)

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited June 2014

    Szark said:
    Ambient will not make the light brighter...ambient in DS is a visual effect. You need to increase light Intensity to get brighter light. I show the light intensity adjuster in http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14536/ pic one. :)

    Hi, sorry I should have been clearer.

    I realise that the light intensity is the control used to increase the light cast by the candle. I have that (and the falloff) set ok and it's giving the effect I want.

    What I am talking about is the look of the candle flame itself. I want it to appear burned out (you know how a candle flame in a dark room appears to be a big blob of overexposure - see this photo below for what I am trying to achieve). I assume this is the ambient setting. But even at 800% it still looks like a well defined oval primitive with sharp edges (ie not a burned out blob)

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    Post edited by Sertorial on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    I am just now at a point, I think I may have a vague clue about the lighting settings. I have pushed the simple can-lights to the extremes of there abilities, and have only some shadow issues to figure out.

    I am off to start reading page one of this thread. I hope to be back here by the end of the day. Weather or not I understand anything written is another matter, tho time will tell.

    Here is an example of a nose cross-shadow that No Amount of softness with a can-light (Spotlight) will fix, Tho for the sake time. That candle first, I have lots of reading to do, please. That render looks super-cool Sertorial.

    Phobe02001cam9f1_pr001_NoseShadowCrop1.png
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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    Is there a list of simple definitions? I got to Pic 3 of the first post, and...
    What is a "HeadLamp Blocker"? Am I supposed to do something with it when/before/after I attach the light to the camera?
    (edit)
    I would like to save this thing as a scene-subset, so I can load them easily. Do I include that blocker thing in the save, or not?
    oops Uber not Ubr.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,349
    edited December 1969

    I think this is right, a headlamp blocker is there to 'replace' the default light, Area lights aren't actually 'light' to DS so if you don't have the headlamp blacker the default light will remain. I usually just leave them.

  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,588
    edited June 2014

    Sertorial said:
    What I am talking about is the look of the candle flame itself. I want it to appear burned out (you know how a candle flame in a dark room appears to be a big blob of overexposure. I assume this is the ambient setting. But even at 800% it still looks like a well defined oval primitive with sharp edges (ie not a burned out blob)

    I think what you're looking at is one of the many optical effects we see due to the deficiencies in cameras (and our vision).
    ('glow', 'lens flare' and 'halos' etc.).
    In Cinema I would use 'Glow' which is a post-render effect. I don't know if there's a Studio equivalent to 'Glow'.

    Post edited by prixat on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    silly thought. Can you load a point light thing, make that ball surface thing larger, and then apply "D-Form" to it?

    It would be allot of inside-out plungers and disks, I would not want to go that wrought.

    I had seen something a few posts back with an elevator door, where the door was the light. Just thinking outloud, I don't know how to make that washout the camera. You need something with a "Soft" surface, not a smooth ball. A fuzzy thing.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • srieschsriesch Posts: 4,241
    edited December 1969

    A low-budget method for the candle that might work if it isn't up close would be to simply duplicate the flame (if it's a separate piece), or create a slightly deformed sphere, that is just a little larger than the flame, and make it mostly but not completely transparent; enough to catch some of the light and add a little fuzzy glow around it. Multiple larger and even more transparent copies could make a gradient that fades as it gets farther away from the light. One could also draw a fake candle flame in black&white; and apply it as an opacity/transparency to a plane, then just stick it right by the candle flame but between the flame and the camera.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    All the Above. Ambient in DAZ Studio is just going to make the mesh seem to light with a faked light. It really does not do Glow as you are thinking. I think the sphere with opacity set and possibly some color in both the Diffuse Surface and the Ambient Channel may be what your after.

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 2,407
    edited December 1969

    Another option you can use is to use [url=http://www.daz3d.com/atmospheric-effects-cameras-for-daz-studioAtmospheric Effects Camera. The Volumetric camera should give you the effect you're looking for.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    Tramp Graphics, sounds good if it can be applied to just one spot in the render and not the entire field of view, as I've seen in the renders using that.

    That link is giving a 404 at the moment (server maintenance), is there a setting to look at to limit that camera affect to just a small area?

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 2,407
    edited December 1969

    Tramp Graphics, sounds good if it can be applied to just one spot in the render and not the entire field of view, as I've seen in the renders using that.

    That link is giving a 404 at the moment (server maintenance), is there a setting to look at to limit that camera affect to just a small area?

    Yes, it comes with an "easy" Volume Camera as well as the true volumetric camera. The Easy Volume Camera allows you to flag certain lights to be volumetric or not.
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    http://www.daz3d.com/atmospheric-effects-cameras-for-daz-studio
    There you are. that link works now, extra stuff at the end got in there somehow before.

    Tramp Graphics, that is sounding like a plan, and exactly what 'prixat' was referring to as a "Post process" effect.
    Sertorial will have allot to read this morning (assuming the chance to get on the form).

    I just managed to figure out what to do with the "HeadLight Blocker" (parent to camera as well), saved the combo as a scene subset, and pulled it up in a new scene. Class 3 of the first post accomplished, lol.

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 2,407
    edited December 1969

    http://www.daz3d.com/atmospheric-effects-cameras-for-daz-studio
    There you are. that link works now, extra stuff at the end got in there somehow before.

    Tramp Graphics, that is sounding like a plan, and exactly what 'prixat' was referring to as a "Post process" effect.
    Sertorial will have allot to read this morning (assuming the chance to get on the form).

    I just managed to figure out what to do with the "HeadLight Blocker" (parent to camera as well), saved the combo as a scene subset, and pulled it up in a new scene. Class 3 of the first post accomplished, lol.

    The beauty of the Atmospheric effects cameras is that the effects are done during the actual render by the camera. No post work required.
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Sorry folks had to hit the bed a lot earlier than normal due to heat stroke. Much better now so here goes.


    I agree with all the suggestions, thanks guys for stepping in there

    zarcondeegrissom Headlamp is another term for the Preview light and since Area lighting isn't a light per say it needs this to tell DS that there is a light in the scene and will not render the preview light.

    Sertorial yes we are now talking about volumetric light which as already said in a whole new thing one for which Area lighting doesn't do well when using Uber Volume or AoA's cams. I always stick with normal lights for Volumetrics.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    So were back to a plane between the camera and the candle, with an opacity and uber-light map... of sorts.
    something to create that washed out spot from the candle?

    As for my fumbling. is there an easy way to set that uber plain to a known size? Say 18 inches by 4 inches (for a light fixture)?

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited June 2014

    what for the glow look?

    I make the glow via Postwork.

    How I do that is to delete any area lighting or at least set them to 0% intensity and make sure there is one proper standard light in the scene set to 0% intensity.
    Yes blackout time.
    What this will do is allow you to render out any surface with Ambient
    I then use this render as a layer on top of the original render in PS or GIMP.
    Set this ambient only layer to Screen, duplicate and apply some blur, duplicate and repeat.
    Play with the layer opacity until you are happy.

    And no resizing is always guess work given we don't have real world measurements in DS by default.

    Post edited by Szark on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    a) for Sertorial's candle.

    b) so my setting primitives to exact measurements for the set, is just a wash, lol. I thought it was strange, inches/cm for the cube size, and then percent for moving it around the scene. lol.

    (edit)
    Well I will leave this to Sertorial, I need to fiddle with the Uber-light-cam from step 3 of the first post to see how this all works. As I try to visualize just how that samples thing works (8 vs 32 vs 128)

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    b) you can buy an addition product that will give us real world measurements. Shame they didn't include it with DS as default. Oh well such as life.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    Why is the Uner lights causing such a whiteout condition in the view-screen?
    Both panels are at 50% intensity, the the lights they have replaced have been turned off.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,588
    edited June 2014

    for resizing stuff, have a look at one of Casual's scripts in the Freepository:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/42792

    Post edited by prixat on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Why is the Uner lights causing such a whiteout condition in the view-screen?
    Both panels are at 50% intensity, the the lights they have replaced have been turned off.
    because they are not like the standard lights...the are shader/surface lights that can not show their true intensity until rendered. I am not sure what light we see, I think it is from the headlamp blocker.
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    I'll look at the headlight blocker now. The floor is mat gray (128), and the walls mat 192 gray shade, they shouldn't look that bright.

    I have about a dozen things to work on with these two uber-lights. shadow bias is 0.10 on all lights, just like ALL my former renders. Shadow Samples 64, Sample Rate 0.10, etc.

    Why the graininess on the dress? Is that what the Uber samples is all about? Is that # of light-points on the panel, or is that # of rays per point?

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  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    the light output in the viewport when using Area lights are not adjustable. Just something we have to liv with.

    As for your scene well you do have a lot of lights in there so any one or all of them could be a problem.

    Graininess; what are the area light samples set to?

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    spotlight 8-point (corners) fundamentals, OK. All Lights Ray-trace Shadows, No Exceptions.
    Floor-Flood lights front left 1,and back 2 (back right for hair corona highlights).
    White 255..., intensity 25%, Spread Angle 90, Shadow Color 32r32g32b, Shadow Intensity 100%, Softness 50%, Shadow Bias 0.10

    Sky (Spot light 5) 1 back top left corner for body and hair edge light effect.
    White 255..., intensity 25%, Spread Angle 60, Shadow Color 0r0g0b, Shadow Intensity 100%, Softness 33%, Shadow Bias 0.10

    Other two front corner sky lights (3&4) disabled and replaced with Uber light panels.
    I started out with both Uber-panels at 50% intensity (now 50% left, 75% right), everything else default. 8 samples.
    (End of specs)

    I discovered that turning on ray trace shadows on the Headlight Blockers, made things a tad bit more tolerable, I haven't fussed more then that yet. I'll give that color thing a try.

    Should I turn "Off" the "Visible in Render" for the Headlight blockers, or leave that default "On"?

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited December 1969

    Hey everyone looking to get "glow" sans postwork!

    Volumetrics are great, but slow. Here's a faster suggestion...
    In the Shader Builder pane, go to "Surface" - "Renderman Companion", select "Glow" and compile it. Then create a primitive, like a sphere, and apply this shader to its surface. It basically is ambient with a softer edge and can look very cool without a hit in the render time. Adjust the "Attenuation" parameter to control the falloff. See the quick render attached for how it can look =D



    ...
    spotlight 8-point (corners) fundamentals, OK. All Lights Ray-trace Shadows, No Exceptions.
    Floor-Flood lights front left 1,and back 2 (back right for hair corona highlights).
    White 255..., intensity 25%, Spread Angle 90, Shadow Color 32r32g32b, Shadow Intensity 100%, Softness 50%, Shadow Bias 0.10
    ...

    Oh, what a complicated setup... If I were you, I'd ditch all the "fill"/"bounce" lights and add a single UE2 to the scene with AO in soft shadows mode and a suitable IBL map. The "Studio" one from the default UE2 package might work for your scene. Keep the key light - make it an area light - and backlighting (the fewer lights, the better; using only one key light will also help you combat those nose shadows). Shadow colour is best left black - it is always black in reality, it only gets lighter due to other lights, light bounce around the room or skydome illumination; full GI is possible in DS but not particularly fast, so the best option for speed is to use an environment light (like UE2) to simulate bounce.

    8 samples on an area light is way too low, graininess is guaranteed. Try 16 for starters.

    If you are using shadow softness on non-area lights, you may also want to increase shadow samples to combat graininess (the "built-in" DS lights only respond to the general parameter in the render settings, dzLights and UberLights have their own setting per-shader).

    --

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    Working on first cup of coffee so I may have read something wrong there. That box is what I use for playing with simple textures on a cube or sphere in the center of that room. Normally, lol. It's large enough that I can move around the target without getting cams lights walls etc in my face or blocking the target.

    So your suggesting turning the two Sky lights back on (sky blue tint left and sun yellow tint right as there colors were last set).
    taking the Uber-Light-Cam and set them down low the to deal with the neck and chin shadow? (Replacing the Lfld1 light)?

    you have no idea where these lights are, I need to label that screen-cap?

    "O" render settings... 1200x900 test renders.
    Bucket 64, Max ray trace 3, pixel samples XY 4, shadow samples 48, shading rate 0.25, etc
    "Progressive Rendering" was done on that test, not always tho. It was a quick dirty test render to adjust the replaced lights.

    When I do 1600x1200 finals, I bump shadow up to 64, and shading rate down to 0.020 (or lower), and ray trace depth out to 4, occasionally 8 For "Casting Reflections" Set.

    Szark, brain-fart moment, "32 to 128, my shadow samples are at 48, I'm fine", not that "Samples". I'll change that 8 to 32.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/211165/

    I'm equally confused about this light texture surface thing. I want to work with real light rays coming from a real "softbox" light, eventually. It really sounds like your saying (to an outsider / freshman / me), The lights don't emit light, they make All the other surfaces in the scene Glow on there own without any regard to where the light was supposed to come from???
    that's not exactly what I'm seeing in the render???

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2014

    well that is better at 32 instead of the default 8 for the Uber lights. Much happier with the shadows on the face, tho it is dancing the fine edge of plastic. I need to mess with that fall-off Range (Falloff End) a bit more, and back the lights off.
    (edit)
    Much better, backing off the lights to the corners, and scaling (X&Z) them up 200% in size.

    "O" B.T.W. Mustakettu85, Shadow Samples only goes up to 64 with Daz Studio 3Delight, How do I make it go higher, 'IF' that is what you were thinking?

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  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,588
    edited June 2014

    Zarcon, the Glow shader was suggested as a way to mimic the 'bloom' on a candle flame without postwork.

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    Post edited by prixat on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited December 1969

    "O" that render is perfect! I like it. I hope Sertorial see's that.

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