Making a face morph in Daz Studio, where to start?

ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
edited December 1969 in New Users

I am aware that you can't just Install Daz Studio, and be creating lifelike figure morphs and professional renders first day, with no former experience. In fact it is something that takes years of fumbling around and making mistakes to gain experience.

I'm not entirely sure that Daz Studio is a good program for making custom faces. There is some face morph products available for morphing existing figure faces to some extent. On the other hand, when I search the net for beginner guidance on using the morph products to make a face, all I find is demonstrations of other non-daz products for turning a single photograph into a head with less then convincing results.

So here I am. I have purchased a bunch of daz face morph products, installed them, and have no clue what I am doing. Case and point, I tried to create a face similar to the attached example, with 'less then desired' results. It looks nothing like I intended after days of fussing with sliders.

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Comments

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited December 1969

    Now I assumed I could find a side and head-on photo of some ones face, and have them open on another monitor to give me a reference to start with. That was an assumption, and about all I was able to figure out. I'm not entirely sure what each of the bewildering variety of face morph sliders do, nor what combinations and order they should be best used in.

    Just to drive the point home to some that have said, "Just fiddle with them, you'll figure them out". Here is a screen-cap of all the various face morph sliders I have, I don’t even know what morph package most of the sliders came from.

    I have fiddled with the morph sliders, and am now so lost, I'm trying to figure out what of the six surfaces around me is the floor so I can place my feet back on solid ground, after that spin in the "Multi-Axis Trainer".

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited April 2014

    So can we start at the beginning, and go a little slower for someone that doesn’t even know what a "Philtrum" is?

    There is a face in the first post that I would like to make the G2F face resemble, I am not looking for exact, just close.

    I open this up for desperately needed beginner help.


    It is probably best if you save the layout as is, before things get messed up by accident. I jokingly refer to it as "Saving The Universe".
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/596918/

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 3,921
    edited December 1969

    The first thing you need to do is click off 'Show Sub Items' at the bottom of the body part list. Second is to click on the little triangles in front of the body parts to expand and refine your morph options. Third is turn dials and see what happens, it really is the only way to get familiar with them as the names doesn't always match what you think they should do.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited April 2014

    O.K that reduces the number of sliders a bit for each 'category', and they are still there in sub categories. That's a bit more comprehensible layout. Thanks, I think I found the floor after that 'Multi-Axis Trainer' ride.

    That 'Show Sub Items' check-box was hit, to get 'transit', 'rotation', and 'scaling' all in one tab for manipulating primitives to make a scene, It's only about ten sliders to look at there. Apparently a bad thing for a beginner with face morphing to levee on while doing this.


    Is there a way to see the front and side of the face at the same time in the 'view field', or is that only possible with other 3D-softwear (Poser, Blender, etc)?

    If not, Should I stick with clicking that view-angle-cube-thing, or would it be better to set up two cameras at the same angle the reference photos were taken and switch between them?

    Is having the reference photos open on a second monitor a good or bad idea? Did I even pic good reference angle-photos for this?

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  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 59,281
    edited December 1969

    Is there a way to see the front and side of the face at the same time in the 'view field', or is that only possible with other 3D-softwear (Poser, Blender, etc)?

    Window>Viewports has options for dividing the viewport up, and you can then hover the mouse over the division between panes to resize them.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited April 2014

    O.K. That is a significant improvement right there. Many times I moved a slider thinking it was doing what I wanted, only to find out it was doing something drastic only visible from another angle.

    Now a note, You can not switch both windows to 'perspective view' and expect to move the view independently for each window. Both windows must be set to different 'views?' to move them around independently.

    "O" and the view split mode that is selected, is for each tab across the top. So if you want to morph a face, you first need to traverse over to the "Actors, Wardrobe & Props" menu tab across the top of the window first. Then select the split window in that 'pane?'.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited December 1969

    I can't thank y'all enough, the display I'm looking at now is so much better looking, and easier to figure out where things are. So to continue this a tidbit further.


    Is having the reference photos open on a second monitor a good or bad idea? Did I even pic good reference angle-photos for this?

    And, is there a best to start with slider list? Like over-all shapes first, or minute details first, or just start at the top of the list and work down?

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,370
    edited December 1969

    Just a suggestion- go over to the Art Studio section in the forums and post your progress. Those of us who know what to do can tell you what to adjust. Fresh eyes are always good. To get to the Art Studio, go up to Forums and click on it, the Art Studio is not in the dropdown menu.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,370
    edited December 1969

    And to answer your question, get the face shape first.
    If you are not a portrait artist, it also helps to overlay a transparency (acetate or even a document cover that is clear) over the face (and when I was beginning, I even did it on a computer screen, by placing the document cover over my screen) and drawing a line through the eyes (middle), the bottom of the nose, and the top of the lips. Then you can compare that to your face. But I start with the shape of the face.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited December 1969

    Now that sounds like something I have done in the past, to get an outline of Karnak (Precinct of Amun-Re) into a game engine map editor.

    Now as for concerns about the people out there using plastic-faced Flat-Panel monitors (OR anti-glare coated CRT displays), Once that surface is scratched, it is game over. That scratch will glimmer light for the rest of time. Use Extreme caution when taping anything to the monitor, and never get metal or similar 'hard' materials near the display part of the monitor.

    I used masking tape to tape some clear plastic office report covers to the screen. Before that tho, I had put the original drawing on a clipboard with the transparent 'report cover' on-top of the original drawing, and traced out the building onto the 'report cover'.

    There may be a way to put the face image onto the surface of a 'Primitive', then make the 'Primitive' semi-transparent, and put that between the view-port and the head. It's only a thought tho.


    As for posting my progress in the other form, I actually gave up on that face over a week ago, as I just could not get the nose anywhere close then. With the interface adjustments outlined in the former posts here, I may actually be able to do something with that, after I finish getting these lights and shadows figured out. There is allot of stuff I want to post with render settings and other environment tests, It's just going to take me a little time to get there (Not this weekend). Thanks for the offer, I will be there when this computer has more ram (7 days and counting).

  • StargazeyStargazey Posts: 120
    edited December 1969

    If you want to put an overlay on your screen you could try this "foreground reference utility" - http://www.digitalartistguild.com/misc/UtilityExplain/UtilityExplain.html.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Let me point you to the needed tools of the Trade for DAZ Studio Face creation. I use these on every character and they work just as well for males as they do for females. The investment is high but it is a once and your done thing....
    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-head-morph-resource-kit-1
    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-head-morph-resource-kit-2
    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-head-morph-resource-kit-3
    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-head-morph-resource-kit-4

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 3,921
    edited December 1969

    I have customized DS's interface to use a 'room' concept. It is similar to the Self Serve layout but further separated Posing and Shaping in to two rooms/panes. Both rooms have a Parameters tab, in Shaping the Show Sub Items is unchecked, in Posing it is left checked. The separate room concept also has the advantage that I can have a Content Library tab in each room and they can all be opened to different parts of my content libraries.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited April 2014

    As to your other questions: How to get started. I suggest a goolge or other search on drawing the human face. You will soon see that most work in a given order but that order is really up to you. I prefer to Shape the face first, this may include sizing the full figure so I start close to the finished figure size as well. Then comes the basic measurements for the face, height of eyes from the crown and width, under edge of nose and height of lips from chin and width. There are examples of all this in free hand drawing. Once you get the basic lay out down then you get into the tilt of the eyes which effects slope of the forehead and all those little touches that add up to the overall face. I prefer a top down method, so if I work on the eyes I drop to the mouth and from there up to the nose and back and forth in this method.

    Here is the best tip I ever got for a face. Work in stages. That means Walk away. Look at other things at least 10 minutes and then come back and look at your work again. This will allow you to spot things that you never will if you do it all in one long go.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited December 1969

    stargazey. Overlay Util install stumped? what exe starts the thing? Dose it work with XP? The vid only states it needs a real GPU (nVidia) not some fake ram-robbing on-board thing.


    Jaderail, nice list of mods for the G1 figure. I'm having some doubts that the complete collection of morphs I have found for G2F are anywhere near as complete as what I see there for the G1 figure.

    Case and point, Genesis has an upturned concave nostril side, where as 'Christina' in my first post has more of an 'S' shaped nostril side. I need to finish this post, move the web over to the other computer, and check the sliders again now that I have a dual-view of what is going on (instead of the old hopping back and forth in the Multi-Axis Trainer method).

    jestmart, are those 'rooms' the same thing as the tabs on the top of the screen that seam to remember what view I had open when I switch between them (pose vs lights, etc)? or is it more like further splitting the screen up? I ask as I don't have all three G220fb monitors I use to have, so the center monitor (B243PWL) is now locked at 1200 pixels in height. Gone are the days when I could go to QUXGA on all three screens, I only have one G220fb left after that power surge (CB antenna incident) a year ago.


    Jaderail, Yes, I'm finding that out as well, after a day of working on something, when I come back the next day I'm like "I have got to touch that up a bit". Like the displacement patrons I've been playing with all weekend.

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  • StargazeyStargazey Posts: 120
    edited April 2014

    "stargazey. Overlay Util install stumped? what exe starts the thing? Dose it work with XP? The vid only states it needs a real GPU (nVidia) not some fake ram-robbing on-board thing."

    I've used it with XP and Vista. Download it by clicking on "Get it here", then double click"ForeGroundReference.exe" - it doesn't actually install anything. The main problem is that after you click "Overlay" you can't adjust the setting, you have to close it and start again! It's pretty old, but better than putting tape on your monitor!

    Post edited by Stargazey on
  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 3,921
    edited December 1969

    By rooms I meant the large tabs across the top of some UI layouts.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited December 1969

    alright, one last thanks post...

    That room thing dose sound very good then. I can make a top-tab thing explicitly for morphing/shaping. I'll look into that after some shut-eye. See Y'all on the flip-side. [face hits keyboard, zzz] lol.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited April 2014

    After some fumbling around menus, I think I found part of adding a new 'room'.

    Now I just need to figure out how to get the side tabs back in that new "Activity Bar" Activity...

    P.S.
    'G2F6W' and 'G2F7W', were former failed attempts of making some one that resembles Lisa Wray. Perhaps now I will see what all them sliders are actually doing as I adjust them. When I get the shaping sliders into that new "Activity Bar" Activity.


    I think I found a hint in the User manual pdf, I'm looking into it now.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited May 2014

    O.k. Just opening a "Paines (Tabs)" isn't quite it, as it is covering up the View field unlike the (slide-out) side tab things I cant seam to figure out how to turn on in the new 'room' I just created.

    We must be getting more information about the plumbing of Olympus Mons from MRO's completely nonfunctional ground penetrating radar, then I can glean out of the drastically incomplete "User Manual".


    you may not have a "Scripts" item in the top bar menu, if you don't have any scrips installed.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited December 1969

    And this just tops it off. I've lost count of how many "Manual" web pages have given me this.

    What has it been, five hours that I've been trying to get a pane to dock to the left or right of the window. I'm in a "All Drums Go To Hell" mood at this point, I need to go kill lots of things on a game-server somewhere.

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  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 59,281
    edited April 2014

    Drag the pane to the side to dock it - you should see a line highlighting the edge when it's in place.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited December 1969

    this is starting to sound like using windows8 without a touch-screen, lol.

    I tried that, and it would only dock to the top of the screen. I don't have that check-box ticked in the menu. I even slid the thing clear across to the left and then right monitor, and it still refused to dock. There must be a magic boundary/zone somewhere where I un-click the pane to let it dock to the side of the window. I need to figure out why that highlight is not appearing on the side of the window.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited May 2014

    O.K. pathetic method, tho it works...

    1) Disable desktop on ALL your extended desktop monitors, leaving just the one 'Primary' screen going.

    2) Maximize the Daz Studio Window to "Full Screen" view.

    3) Grab (Left Click and hold the button down) the "Shaping" (pain tab) mini-window, about midway horizontally across the top of the mini-window in the dark gray. and Slam/mash the courser against the left side of the screen, then release the left-click-button.

    4) Save the Universe, before something breaks. lol. Save the window layout as something custom (name of your choice).

    5) Now you can go back and re-enable all your other monitors attached to the computer, and fuss with the layout of what monitor is to the left or the right.

    Now I can right click the thing and get some more tabs in that pain. Pain-in-the-back, is that why they call them things pains, lol.

    This process is exactly the same for 'Daz Studio 4.6' 32bit and 64bit versions on XP and Windows7. Including shutting down ALL extended desktop monitors, just to get the thing to stick to the side of the window.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited April 2014

    New Activity loose ends.

    The New Activity (tab, pain, thing) has a default background color of white. As a beginner following the guidance of all the web tooter things that use the 'Hollywood Blvd' layout. White is not going to do, and I already ran into difficulty with that color and locating a primitive. Time to make it the default blue.

    The Red (121), Green (141), & Blue (176) values shown, are for the default 'Hollywood Blvd' blue-ish background color. This may need to be done in other Activity tabs as well, to get things back to normal.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited June 2015

    Saving The Universe, what!?

    Also I wasn't that clear when I stated, "Save the Universe", as I had forgotten the exact names of the menu items at that time. I actually saved two different things as I'm not sure what is what yet, I'm a beginner myself.

    To start with, I don't need to save the layout of the default four activities, just the new one, and the global settings as well. so first off go to the newly created activity tab, then start saving things.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited December 1969

    Adding tabs to that pain. It's just a right click away, now that that thing is docked to the side of the Daz Studio Window..

    And don't forget to save things, so you can go back if something gets messed up.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,358
    edited December 1969

    After a short chat with "Jaderail" and "fixmypcmike" regarding "Morph settings" in different tabs, I started looking around the interface.

    I have decided that most of the stuff in the "Shaping" tab (If not ALL) happens to be in the "Parameters" tab along with much more control of stuff. I had previously only used this tab for moving things around (Transit, rotate, and. scaling), as that is how the workflow seamed efficient for other tasks with two docked window-pain-things.

    Here I'm looking to get a little more detail in the split-view view-field, so working inside a single window-pain-thing implies a slightly different work-flow. It is a mater of preference, that you may decide to change things up a bit different from what I have.

    Just don't forget to "Save The Universe" before things get irreparably messed up in the process of your tinkering with the interface.

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