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No encrypted for me.

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  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,773

    That's fair enough, and if people don't feel comfortable with this, they certainly don't have to use it. I only started speaking up in this thread because I really think some people are panicking and spreading misinformation over something that isn't going to affect most customers in any real way.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,575

    The fact that has been a lot of misinformation and poorly considered speculation in this thread is something I think we can all agree on, the fact that this is an issue of concern, is clearly not something we agree on

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830
    SnowSultan said:

    Its not the actual mechanism of DazConnect that is what has us all upset , SnowSultan.  Its the encryption that is being used as DRM that has us concerned. The two things are very different. 

    Alright, then please explain why, in simple terms and with as little Chicken Little-esque "they're punishing paying customers!!1" claims as possible, how encryption and DRM will hurt us. We can still access the OBJs and textures, we can still export to other software, we have to download the products at least once to get them to begin with, and there is a method (perhaps a bit of work, but it's there) to get content working on a computer than has no internet access. I'm not mocking you, I'd honestly like to hear a real reason that doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory coming from the same group of people who complain about everything DAZ does anyway.

     

    One of the biggest issues with the encryption is that it removes the ability to make changes in the asset on certain levels. This ability comes in handy at many different times but most often when a "buggy" asset is released.  The content creators are human. This has happened before and will most likely happen again.  I am not criticising anyone with this statement. Its just something that "is" People are not perfect.

    Another thing is that even though an asset may be able to be exported as another file type, those exports are often not 'perfect" and generally dont give you full functionality of the figure as it was created.   This has long been an issue but as I understand it, the difficulty is increased now with the encryption.  This facet is something that perhaps another user here on these forums may be able to answer in a more detailed fashion than I can as I have just started to learn to use other 3D programs.

    Another concern with the DRM is the possibility of failures in the activation/authentification scheme.  This has happened with bigger and more staffed companies than DAZ3D when they encrypted their products.  Its a very real concern especially given the fact that many of the people that shop at DAZ3D use their assets professionally.  An example of this would be something that happened with Adobe when they took their packages to a subscription based DRM scheme that required periodic authentification.  Their authentification servers failed.  People - including professional graphic artists- could not access their legally acquired software for several days while this was sorted out.  Magazine artists missed deadlines.  People that design various  art and video for books , movies, tv shows and such failed to meet deadlines costing other companies lots of money.

    A further concern with encryption based DRM is what happens if DAZ3D goes out of business.  Yes, there has been mention of a "poison pill" method to de- encrypt our content but the mentions have been contradictory with one DAZ employee stating that it was already developed and later on in the game another DAZ employee saying that it was "being looked into".  No company is immune to the possibility of going out of business.  The market shifts, people make bad decisions, fads and trends change.  Its just part of life and business.

    And finally, ( though you may consider this chicken little-ish ) there is the very real possibility that this is the first step if you will on the way to putting all of DAZ's customers into a "walled garden".  By this I mean that the only place we could use our encrypted DAZ3D content is within DAZ Studio itself.  This stifles the creativity and freedom of choice for everyone and that is never a good thing.   Yes, I know that it has been said by employees of DAZ 3D that this is not in the works but they are the same people that said there were "no plans for encrypted connect only content in the forseeable future" and since we saw encrypted content on the very first day that 4.9 was "live" we all know how far that worked out.   Other companies have done exactly this same thing before and attempted to lock their users into a walled garden.  Apple and Microsoft and Adobe, are three that come to mind immediately. It did not work out well for them and it most likely won't work out well for DAZ.   This is not "chicken little" it's examples out of past history.

    There is a lot of distrust of anything coming out of DAZ3D right now and its not from people that are the onees that always complain. A lot of this appears to be from people that have been loyal customers for quite a long time.  People who have loyalty and an emotional connection to the company.  That is NEVER a good thing because people know they have been around for a while and will follow their lead much more readily than "new" people OR employees of the company especially when there has been as much flip-flopping on "official "statements as there has been with this product release.  This is going very badly and the fault of that lies mostly on DAZ3D.

    I do hope I have answered your questions at least in part.

     

     

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,582
    SnowSultan said:

    Its not the actual mechanism of DazConnect that is what has us all upset , SnowSultan.  Its the encryption that is being used as DRM that has us concerned. The two things are very different. 

    Alright, then please explain why, in simple terms and with as little Chicken Little-esque "they're punishing paying customers!!1" claims as possible, how encryption and DRM will hurt us. We can still access the OBJs and textures, we can still export to other software, we have to download the products at least once to get them to begin with, and there is a method (perhaps a bit of work, but it's there) to get content working on a computer than has no internet access. I'm not mocking you, I'd honestly like to hear a real reason that doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory coming from the same group of people who complain about everything DAZ does anyway.

    There have been several examples of how this hurts legit users throughout this thread. But let me reiterate a couple.

    If there's an error in a plaintext .duf, I can go in and edit it myself if I choose rather than waiting on a ticket process. This is impossible in an encrypted .duf

    If I wish to relocate parts of a product to suit whatever setup I'm running, I can do so. Not so with encrypted products which must remain where they install to as I can't simply rewrite where they look for components.

    This isn't even touching on things DAZ could choose to add in order to sell DRM. We already have a half dozen items that were DRMed solely to sell everyone on it. They could do more to lock things down and if we sit back and take it, then we deserve the walled garden.

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562

    Speculation occurs when there is a lack of official information...  And I am sorry, random messages in a forum that has no search function is not an efficient form of official communication.

    If information was being communicated properly, I wouldnt have been paniking and cancelling 4.9 from starting when I saw "Migrating xxx of 124,632 files" happening immediately at start up.

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830
    Jason Galterio said:

    Speculation occurs when there is a lack of official information...  And I am sorry, random messages in a forum that has no search function is not an efficient form of official communication.

    If information was being communicated properly, I wouldnt have been paniking and cancelling 4.9 from starting when I saw "Migrating xxx of 124,632 files" happening immediately at start up.

    Yeah.. that would have had me in a panic too.

     

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562

    I am going to guess that most of the people here don't remember the early days of DRM. And how painful they were...

    Like Bard's Tale having you "enter word 4 from sentence 7 on page 23" and then you realize your buddy borrowed the book without telling you.

    Or Infocom's "turn the the inner dial to..." and "line up the outer dial with" and enter the number. And finding out that someone in your family used the cardboard disk as a coaster and melted it?

    And for one more example, Electronic Art's "you must create a save disk to play." And then randomly asking for the save disk to be inserted into the floppy drive for confirmation of who you are.

    When you are burned by one of those, often without ever being able to unlock the game again, you get extremely wary of DRM.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    The thing is, the people who communicate 'this isn't what Daz intends' aren't usually the people who are actually making the decisions, and there are good reasons the decision-makers aren't telling people stuff.

    And, well, things change. People change their mind.

     

    None of this is bad or evil, but to expect people to be calmed by words of 'we have no plans' is silly. Is Daz planning a walled garden? Who knows. Might they decide to move further that way? Who knows.

    What we DO know is that DRM clears the weeds, to flog the analogy, in that direction.

     

  • Jan19Jan19 Posts: 1,109
    edited January 2016
    No Connect 4 Me said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Actually the best way to curb piracy is to use a watermark or a code stamp someplace in the content that won't be notice maybe in a code snippit embed into the product with individual serial# for each customer that bought it., its ls less intrusive to the customer and privacy & that way each product sold would have its own customer ID# with out exposing the custer to the public making it traceable and easier find the person responsible and to prosecute them. put a watermark or a code ID into the product  your piracy will stop almost over night and if there is pirated copies issue you will know who was the one who released it.   Many  web site developers are doing this now and it works  even Amazon & Kindle has adopted this policy for their e-books

    Thanks to those who are explaining encryption.  :-)  I know very little about it.

    As for the embedded watermark, I wondered if something like that was possible.  It'd zero in on who is doing what with the content -- using it in the wrong way, I mean.

     

     

    Post edited by Jan19 on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    Jan19 said:
    No Connect 4 Me said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Actually the best way to curb piracy is to use a watermark or a code stamp someplace in the content that won't be notice maybe in a code snippit embed into the product with individual serial# for each customer that bought it., its ls less intrusive to the customer and privacy & that way each product sold would have its own customer ID# with out exposing the custer to the public making it traceable and easier find the person responsible and to prosecute them. put a watermark or a code ID into the product  your piracy will stop almost over night and if there is pirated copies issue you will know who was the one who released it.   Many  web site developers are doing this now and it works  even Amazon & Kindle has adopted this policy for their e-books

    Thanks to those who are explaining encryption.  :-)  I know very little about it.

    As for the embedded watermark, I wondered if something like that was possible.  It'd zero in on who is doing what with the content -- using it in the wrong way, I mean.

     

     

    Dont confuse DRM for encryption; DRM uses encryption, but other tools on the internet also use encryption; you are likely aware of the https (indication a safe connection) which is used for passing private personal data, which is done by encryption. This is without any risk of the customer being tempoarily or permenantly locked out. That is often a result of issues with the company and its servers becoming unavailable or the company cancelling/stopping a service that uses DRM.

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,880

    Encrypted is pretty much a no-go for Carrara users.

    Unfortunately, for all Carrara users, DAZ3D has once again told us through their actions, that we don't matter to them (which is probably true because I'm sure now that we are a very small portion of their overall sales). We still can't use any G3 products in Carrara, and have no Idea when (or at this point if) they will have the update available. In addition, we now have G3 content that will be totally unusable in Carrara when (if) the update is released thanks to Lynsey, Dragon Queen, and the Lulu Outfit for G3F being connect encrypted only, as well as other content  like the  Troubador for G2F that is not usable in Carrara because of encryption. Yes, for items like the Medieval Storage Room, we can export it from DS and use it in Carrara. But IMHO that is a real PITA and huge step backwards. This is yet another slap in the face for Carrara users (intentional or not, that is the result). If DAZ3D plans on dropping future content support for Carrara, the proper thing to do would be to let your users, and potential users know.

    Being able to move forward knowing that Carrara is either going to be supported as a full member of the DAZ content "family", or basically be pushed aside and ignored would be a huge plus. As it is now, Carrara users are just playing a guessing game. which seems as if the only sure win to this game is to move on to another software. Unfortunately there isn't another software available that provides the features of Carrara, and integration of DAZ content, so even by moving on Carrara users end up losing something, features if we go with DS or Poser, integrated pre-made content if we use something else.

    While I realize that Carrara users are seen as not being DS content users, I just did a total, and I have spent a little over $700 on content here in the last year (much more than I had realized blush). True, compared to many that is not a lot, but for me it is a very significant amount, and makes me realize that my annual spending is getting closer to being able to afford something better than Carrara (or go with Blender and save A LOT). Seriously though, we do buy a lot of DS content for use in Carrara,

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,582
    Jan19 said:
    No Connect 4 Me said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Actually the best way to curb piracy is to use a watermark or a code stamp someplace in the content that won't be notice maybe in a code snippit embed into the product with individual serial# for each customer that bought it., its ls less intrusive to the customer and privacy & that way each product sold would have its own customer ID# with out exposing the custer to the public making it traceable and easier find the person responsible and to prosecute them. put a watermark or a code ID into the product  your piracy will stop almost over night and if there is pirated copies issue you will know who was the one who released it.   Many  web site developers are doing this now and it works  even Amazon & Kindle has adopted this policy for their e-books

    Thanks to those who are explaining encryption.  :-)  I know very little about it.

    As for the embedded watermark, I wondered if something like that was possible.  It'd zero in on who is doing what with the content -- using it in the wrong way, I mean.

     

     

    Problem is a user id tag in a plaintext is a visible item that can be duplicated, and it may only tell who has a compromised PC and not who is distributing stuff. Still better than this encryption garbage.
  • Jan19Jan19 Posts: 1,109
    kyoto kid said:
    Jan19 said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...also not pleased with the idea having to sign in to use the programme or newer encrypted content. I avoid going online when working on a scene or rendering as it competes for processor and memory resources (and I've seen FF, particularly the newer versions, bloat to almost 1GB in memory). 

    A lot of us don't have 32 or 64 GB or memory as we have slightly older systems. Just running Windows alone leaves me with 11 GB of useable memory which when rendering a large scene can disappear real quick, dumping the process into "glacial" swap mode.

    You can work offline -- I think you only have to sign in once.  Working while connected last nite -- Iray render -- did coincide w/a hard freeze of my computer.  First one in a long time.  (I'm running Windows 10.)  I'm not sure that the freeze and 4.9 are connected, but that's the last program I had open, and closing it preceded the freeze. 

    That said, installing content thru DS is convenient, even though it takes awhile.  Better than DIM, which hasn't worked for me in months and months.  But the Connect stuff goes into a new library, not my old one.   

     

    ...I've had little if any issue with the DIM ever since I got a fast, stable connection. It really isn't that much of a bother to open it once a day, even if I haven't purchased anything, to see if there are any product updates.

    Never was a big fan of auto updating. 

    I tried to use it.  I just couldn't connect to my account, no matter what.  DAZ tech support couldn't help me connect.  I CAN connect to DAZ Connect, so I like it better than DIM. smiley  Doesn't mean I'm FOR the encryption thing though -- actually I don't know enough about DRM to offer an intelligent opinion.  Just hoping for the sake of all that another solution can be found.  I like harmony. 

    Plus, customer exodus might lead to price hikes.

     

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830
    Jan19 said:
    kyoto kid said:
    Jan19 said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...also not pleased with the idea having to sign in to use the programme or newer encrypted content. I avoid going online when working on a scene or rendering as it competes for processor and memory resources (and I've seen FF, particularly the newer versions, bloat to almost 1GB in memory). 

    A lot of us don't have 32 or 64 GB or memory as we have slightly older systems. Just running Windows alone leaves me with 11 GB of useable memory which when rendering a large scene can disappear real quick, dumping the process into "glacial" swap mode.

    You can work offline -- I think you only have to sign in once.  Working while connected last nite -- Iray render -- did coincide w/a hard freeze of my computer.  First one in a long time.  (I'm running Windows 10.)  I'm not sure that the freeze and 4.9 are connected, but that's the last program I had open, and closing it preceded the freeze. 

    That said, installing content thru DS is convenient, even though it takes awhile.  Better than DIM, which hasn't worked for me in months and months.  But the Connect stuff goes into a new library, not my old one.   

     

    ...I've had little if any issue with the DIM ever since I got a fast, stable connection. It really isn't that much of a bother to open it once a day, even if I haven't purchased anything, to see if there are any product updates.

    Never was a big fan of auto updating. 

    I tried to use it.  I just couldn't connect to my account, no matter what.  DAZ tech support couldn't help me connect.  I CAN connect to DAZ Connect, so I like it better than DIM. smiley  Doesn't mean I'm FOR the encryption thing though -- actually I don't know enough about DRM to offer an intelligent opinion.  Just hoping for the sake of all that another solution can be found.  I like harmony. 

    Plus, customer exodus might lead to price hikes.

    Customer exodus WILL lead to price hikes and if too many customers leave, DAZ won't be in good fiscal shape

     

  • Jan19Jan19 Posts: 1,109
    nicstt said:
    Jan19 said:
    No Connect 4 Me said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Actually the best way to curb piracy is to use a watermark or a code stamp someplace in the content that won't be notice maybe in a code snippit embed into the product with individual serial# for each customer that bought it., its ls less intrusive to the customer and privacy & that way each product sold would have its own customer ID# with out exposing the custer to the public making it traceable and easier find the person responsible and to prosecute them. put a watermark or a code ID into the product  your piracy will stop almost over night and if there is pirated copies issue you will know who was the one who released it.   Many  web site developers are doing this now and it works  even Amazon & Kindle has adopted this policy for their e-books

    Thanks to those who are explaining encryption.  :-)  I know very little about it.

    As for the embedded watermark, I wondered if something like that was possible.  It'd zero in on who is doing what with the content -- using it in the wrong way, I mean.

     

     

    Dont confuse DRM for encryption; DRM uses encryption, but other tools on the internet also use encryption; you are likely aware of the https (indication a safe connection) which is used for passing private personal data, which is done by encryption. This is without any risk of the customer being tempoarily or permenantly locked out. That is often a result of issues with the company and its servers becoming unavailable or the company cancelling/stopping a service that uses DRM.

    Ok -- well, obviously I know less about DRM than I think. :-)  Thanks for the info.

     

     

  • Kaleb242Kaleb242 Posts: 344
    edited January 2016
    nicstt said:

    Kaleb242 said:

    I appreciate the efforts that have gone into making content delivery and content management faster and more efficient in DAZ Studio.
    Quite frankly, the development of DAZ Install Manager (and DAZ Connect) have been life-savers for me personally.

    The way content installation used to be (especially on a Mac) was time-consuming and terrible. Installer VISE... and BitRock after that, were so bad, that I would burn hours on installation alone. By the time I had everything installed, I would be too exhausted by the process to even use it creatively. Often times the mac installers would even stop working when newer versions of the mac operating system were released, or they would no longer remember where content was supposed to be installed (at the start of every single install), or would be so confusingly packaged that they would install incorrectly (creating a nested content folder inside the content folder for instance).

    Boy was I grateful when Install Manager came along. Suddenly, I could queue up my entire purchase history, check for updates, and install without having to babysit installers manually. At this point, I think it would take me over a month to install all of my licensed content the old manual ways... I have 13,215 installed products in DIM, and still growing. It's simply no longer practical for me to reinstall everything manually.

    With some new purchases this weekend celebrating the release of DS 4.9, I picked up some of the latest "free" encrypted content, and am going to give them a try tomorrow. I'm also going to try installing some non-encrypted content from outoftouch that I purchased through DAZ Connect, and see how installation through DAZ Connect compares to DIM.

    I'm still very concerned about this new trend of encrypted-only content though... I really don't like working with black boxes.

    The thing is, your post says you don't like it; but getting the encrypted only content says you do. Daz listens to sales, not posts.

     

    Oh don't worry, I'm definitely going to be voting with my wallet — if the free encrypted content doesn't give me the creative freedom I need, I certainly won't be buying any Encrypted DAZ Connect products in the future.

    Post edited by Kaleb242 on
  • CrescentCrescent Posts: 333

    Issues with DRM:

    1) Upgrade hardware (or drivers in some cases) and risk locking yourself out of your software because your new configuration doesn't match what the software expected.  Oh, hey, you're out of license keys and it's the weekend so you can't get your stuff unlocked by customer service until Monday.  And that's assuming customer service believes you and resets your # of available keys.

    2) You *have to* put each computer online to get a key for that machine. Not everyone can do that for various reasons.  

    3) With software keys, you're at the mercy of the company as to how many you have at a time.  DAZ said they haven't figured out how many keys each person can have.  They could easily limit it to just 1 or 2 machines, so no render farms.

    4) You can't modify or fix files.  Products aren't always fixed in a timely manner (or at all).

    5) If the software key gets corrupted I hope you're not on a machine or in a location with no Internet access.

    I see several edge case possibilities on top of what I listed above, but since I haven't had time to test them, I won't list them.  On top of the encryption aspect, DAZ Connect causes several problems for me (worse than DIM). If they go to DC only I won't be a customer here any longer. 

  • DkgooseDkgoose Posts: 1,451

    So, I got the Daz connect freebies, I figured why not, can't install them until I get internet but was wondering if there is a reason to download the offline files for all my past products or will it not make a difference either way?  I'm not against Daz Connect, I'm actually thankful they made an offline option, I'm just impatient and my partner doesn't get it,  i'm so tempted to buy a straight talk card for my old cell phone so I can use it as a hotspot to connect to the Internet but have to wait a but longer lol

  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 3,054
    Jason Galterio said:

    Like Bard's Tale having you "enter word 4 from sentence 7 on page 23" and then you realize your buddy borrowed the book without telling you.

    I'm sorry, but that's too funny. It sounds like your buddy either wanted to run a bootleg copy of the software, or make a photocopy of the book so that he could run a bootleg copy.

    I know there may be another reason, but it sounds like you were hurt not by the authors of Bard's Tale, but by your friend, a software pirate. wink 

    At any rate, a number of your examples sound like, "I don't lock my doors anymore because I keep losing my keys, so locks are bad."

    -- Walt Sterdan

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    icecrmn said:

    You should probably set it to something so in the future if you do decide to use it , you will know where your stuff is going.

    If you don't want to use Connect you just don't login.That's really about it.Connect works similar to DIM in this regard. You login to download stuff from your account.If you don't want to use one or the other, just don't login to whatever one you don't want to use.

    Thanks for the advice about setting it to something.

  • CrescentCrescent Posts: 333
    wsterdan said:
    Jason Galterio said:

    Like Bard's Tale having you "enter word 4 from sentence 7 on page 23" and then you realize your buddy borrowed the book without telling you.

    I'm sorry, but that's too funny. It sounds like your buddy either wanted to run a bootleg copy of the software, or make a photocopy of the book so that he could run a bootleg copy.

    I know there may be another reason, but it sounds like you were hurt not by the authors of Bard's Tale, but by your friend, a software pirate. wink 

    At any rate, a number of your examples sound like, "I don't lock my doors anymore because I keep losing my keys, so locks are bad."

    -- Walt Sterdan

    Oddly enough, my friends had a habit of buying the same games as I did because we had similar tastes in games.  If one of us lost our manual, we could borrow it from someone else and make a copy so we could continue to play the games we'd paid for.

    Using your key analogy, it's like being told that because you lost your key you have to spend over $100 for a locksmith to come to your home and make you a new key instead of borrowing your roommate's key and spending $2 at Walmart to get a new copy made.

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562
    wsterdan said:
    Jason Galterio said:

    Like Bard's Tale having you "enter word 4 from sentence 7 on page 23" and then you realize your buddy borrowed the book without telling you.

    I'm sorry, but that's too funny. It sounds like your buddy either wanted to run a bootleg copy of the software, or make a photocopy of the book so that he could run a bootleg copy.

    I know there may be another reason, but it sounds like you were hurt not by the authors of Bard's Tale, but by your friend, a software pirate. wink 

    At any rate, a number of your examples sound like, "I don't lock my doors anymore because I keep losing my keys, so locks are bad."

    -- Walt Sterdan

    Nope. He took every game pretty seriously. And was a voracious reader. He borred the book. Read it over night; it was actually a 20 odd page story comprising the background of the game. Then went out and bought his own copy.

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,582
    wsterdan said:
    Jason Galterio said:

    Like Bard's Tale having you "enter word 4 from sentence 7 on page 23" and then you realize your buddy borrowed the book without telling you.

    I'm sorry, but that's too funny. It sounds like your buddy either wanted to run a bootleg copy of the software, or make a photocopy of the book so that he could run a bootleg copy.

    I know there may be another reason, but it sounds like you were hurt not by the authors of Bard's Tale, but by your friend, a software pirate. wink 

    At any rate, a number of your examples sound like, "I don't lock my doors anymore because I keep losing my keys, so locks are bad."

    -- Walt Sterdan

    fine, you want an example of screwed by DRM that involves no piracy?

    I have Fable III.  Purchased it and its DLC. Microsoft shut down Games for Windows Live, and as of this year decided that they couldn't be bothered to keep up a server for the PC DLC for this game. There is now no legit way to get the content I paid for. This is after telling users it would remain available, and with the X-Box versions still available.  So here's a I got locked out because the lock company didn't feel like maintaining a server for 'old content' and gleefully directed me to ways I can pay them even more money to get a different version of the content I paid for.

     

    Do I think Daz would do something like that? I don't know, and it sounds like neither do they.

     

  • SuperdogSuperdog Posts: 765
    SnowSultan said:
    ghastlycomic said:
    SnowSultan said:

    Yeah noticed the Rederosity e-mail today that contained the phrase "Don't let DRM Products limit your creativity..." in big bold letters.

     

    What that shows is how quick they are to take advantage of people's hysteria and lack of understanding about this entire situation to try and sell their products.

     

    I updated and used Connect.  I can still use my content offline, nothing exploded, nothing stopped working, and I'm pretty sure DAZ isn't getting any more information from me than when I downloaded my products through DIM. I am impressed with how calm Richard and the other DAZ staff have been in dealing with this lunacy.

    But has Daz ever, and I mean EVER, listened to it's customers? Lunatic or otherwise?

    What have we asked for since... well forever?

    • Better integration of Daz Studio assets in Carrera/Poser/etc.
    • Better animation tools in Daz Studio.
    • A proper functioning, updated version of Hexagon.
    • Dynamic cloth and hair in Studio (not Optitex which only 1 person in the world has the rights to create clothing for in Daz Studio)
    • Physics in Studio.

    What have we ever gotten from them? Yet another Genesis figure nobody asked for and DRM that nobody asked for. What will we get from them in the future? Probably another Genesis figure nobody asked for.

    We're assuming anybody who matters at Daz even knows or cares that people are confused and pissed off about DRM restrictions on their software.

     

    I can't speak for DAZ, but a lot of those points have answers:

    * Carrara, Bryce, and Hexagon appear to have pretty much become DAZ's backburner projects that they'll never really get around to concentrating on again. Most software companies do this though, so it's not unprecedented.

    * Adding KeyMate and GraphMate to Studio along with aniMate will give it very good animation tools.

    * I don't have a good reason why we don't have better dynamics in Studio yet, but I doubt it's just "DAZ doesn't want to do what we want".

    * Technical advancements made it too difficult to keep compatibility with Poser when developing new figures and content.

     

    DAZ has listened to customers many times, they've given rebates and changed the rules of sales because people couldn't understand them. They continue to release content for Genesis 2 (for which many of us are thankful) even though they're pushing Genesis 3. The arguments against DRM sound like the arguments I hear regarding gun safety laws. "Well criminals don't follow the law!"...so let's do nothing to help curb piracy because some people may find a way around it anyway? 

    As a Carrara and Carrara content owner I don't have such a cavalier attitude to its lack of development and potential redundancy. As a long term owner of products by Adobe, Sony, BorisFX, FXHome, Autodesk, Red Giant, Cakewalk, Ableton, Cockos etc. the only example of a company stopping the development of one of its product line that I can recall is when Sony stopped developing ACID Pro without even announcing it.

    Even with Animate, Graphmate and Keymate, animation in DAZ is like trying to thread a needle with boxing gloves on. Join up a few aniblocks from different vendors and see if the feet still touch the ground. Then spend days manually editing keyframes to make it so.

    The amount of threads requesting physics and dynamic cloth and hair over the years are pretty hard to ignore. Instead the R&D time and budget were spent developing DRM and a third content filing system which very few, if any, have requested.

    As a Poser owner with large amounts of DAZ content it's a shame I can't take advantage of its features with newer content I own when DS just isn't the right tool for the job.

  • SuperdogSuperdog Posts: 765
    SnowSultan said:
    ghastlycomic said:
    SnowSultan said:

    Yeah noticed the Rederosity e-mail today that contained the phrase "Don't let DRM Products limit your creativity..." in big bold letters.

     

    What that shows is how quick they are to take advantage of people's hysteria and lack of understanding about this entire situation to try and sell their products.

     

    I updated and used Connect.  I can still use my content offline, nothing exploded, nothing stopped working, and I'm pretty sure DAZ isn't getting any more information from me than when I downloaded my products through DIM. I am impressed with how calm Richard and the other DAZ staff have been in dealing with this lunacy.

    But has Daz ever, and I mean EVER, listened to it's customers? Lunatic or otherwise?

    What have we asked for since... well forever?

    • Better integration of Daz Studio assets in Carrera/Poser/etc.
    • Better animation tools in Daz Studio.
    • A proper functioning, updated version of Hexagon.
    • Dynamic cloth and hair in Studio (not Optitex which only 1 person in the world has the rights to create clothing for in Daz Studio)
    • Physics in Studio.

    What have we ever gotten from them? Yet another Genesis figure nobody asked for and DRM that nobody asked for. What will we get from them in the future? Probably another Genesis figure nobody asked for.

    We're assuming anybody who matters at Daz even knows or cares that people are confused and pissed off about DRM restrictions on their software.

     

    I can't speak for DAZ, but a lot of those points have answers:

    * Carrara, Bryce, and Hexagon appear to have pretty much become DAZ's backburner projects that they'll never really get around to concentrating on again. Most software companies do this though, so it's not unprecedented.

    * Adding KeyMate and GraphMate to Studio along with aniMate will give it very good animation tools.

    * I don't have a good reason why we don't have better dynamics in Studio yet, but I doubt it's just "DAZ doesn't want to do what we want".

    * Technical advancements made it too difficult to keep compatibility with Poser when developing new figures and content.

     

    DAZ has listened to customers many times, they've given rebates and changed the rules of sales because people couldn't understand them. They continue to release content for Genesis 2 (for which many of us are thankful) even though they're pushing Genesis 3. The arguments against DRM sound like the arguments I hear regarding gun safety laws. "Well criminals don't follow the law!"...so let's do nothing to help curb piracy because some people may find a way around it anyway? 

    As a Carrara and Carrara content owner I don't have such a cavalier attitude to its lack of development and potential abandonment. As a long term owner of products by Adobe, Sony, BorisFX, FXHome, Autodesk, Red Giant, Cakewalk, Ableton, Cockos etc. the only example of a company stopping the development of one of its product line that I can recall is when Sony stopped developing ACID Pro without even announcing it.

    Even with Animate, Graphmate and Keymate, animation in DAZ is like trying to thread a needle with boxing gloves on. Join up a few aniblocks from different vendors and see if the feet still touch the ground. Then spend days manually editing keyframes to make it so.

    The amount of threads requesting physics and dynamic cloth and hair over the years are pretty hard to ignore. Instead the R&D time and budget were spent developing DRM and a third content filing system which very few, if any, have requested.

    As a Poser owner with large amounts of DAZ content it's a shame I can't take advantage of its features with newer content I own when DS just isn't the right tool for the job.

  • Kaleb242Kaleb242 Posts: 344
    edited January 2016
    Superdog said:
    SnowSultan said:
    ghastlycomic said:
    SnowSultan said:

    Yeah noticed the Rederosity e-mail today that contained the phrase "Don't let DRM Products limit your creativity..." in big bold letters.

     

    What that shows is how quick they are to take advantage of people's hysteria and lack of understanding about this entire situation to try and sell their products.

     

    I updated and used Connect.  I can still use my content offline, nothing exploded, nothing stopped working, and I'm pretty sure DAZ isn't getting any more information from me than when I downloaded my products through DIM. I am impressed with how calm Richard and the other DAZ staff have been in dealing with this lunacy.

    But has Daz ever, and I mean EVER, listened to it's customers? Lunatic or otherwise?

    What have we asked for since... well forever?

    • Better integration of Daz Studio assets in Carrera/Poser/etc.
    • Better animation tools in Daz Studio.
    • A proper functioning, updated version of Hexagon.
    • Dynamic cloth and hair in Studio (not Optitex which only 1 person in the world has the rights to create clothing for in Daz Studio)
    • Physics in Studio.

    What have we ever gotten from them? Yet another Genesis figure nobody asked for and DRM that nobody asked for. What will we get from them in the future? Probably another Genesis figure nobody asked for.

    We're assuming anybody who matters at Daz even knows or cares that people are confused and pissed off about DRM restrictions on their software.

     

    I can't speak for DAZ, but a lot of those points have answers:

    * Carrara, Bryce, and Hexagon appear to have pretty much become DAZ's backburner projects that they'll never really get around to concentrating on again. Most software companies do this though, so it's not unprecedented.

    * Adding KeyMate and GraphMate to Studio along with aniMate will give it very good animation tools.

    * I don't have a good reason why we don't have better dynamics in Studio yet, but I doubt it's just "DAZ doesn't want to do what we want".

    * Technical advancements made it too difficult to keep compatibility with Poser when developing new figures and content.

     

    DAZ has listened to customers many times, they've given rebates and changed the rules of sales because people couldn't understand them. They continue to release content for Genesis 2 (for which many of us are thankful) even though they're pushing Genesis 3. The arguments against DRM sound like the arguments I hear regarding gun safety laws. "Well criminals don't follow the law!"...so let's do nothing to help curb piracy because some people may find a way around it anyway? 

    As a Carrara and Carrara content owner I don't have such a cavalier attitude to its lack of development and potential redundancy. As a long term owner of products by Adobe, Sony, BorisFX, FXHome, Autodesk, Red Giant, Cakewalk, Ableton, Cockos etc. the only example of a company stopping the development of one of its product line that I can recall is when Sony stopped developing ACID Pro without even announcing it.

    Even with Animate, Graphmate and Keymate, animation in DAZ is like trying to thread a needle with boxing gloves on. Join up a few aniblocks from different vendors and see if the feet still touch the ground. Then spend days manually editing keyframes to make it so.

    The amount of threads requesting physics and dynamic cloth and hair over the years are pretty hard to ignore. Instead the R&D time and budget were spent developing DRM and a third content filing system which very few, if any, have requested.

    As a Poser owner with large amounts of DAZ content it's a shame I can't take advantage of its features with newer content I own when DS just isn't the right tool for the job.

    Oh, I can site plenty from Adobe... remember Adobe GoLive (CyberStudio)? Yeah, they discontinued it for a competing product they also acquired: Adobe Dreamweaver. They also discontinued ImageReady for Fireworks. Then discontinued development for Fireworks, pushing Photoshop instead. The list goes on. Also, Autodesk discontinued Softimage... that was a big deal to a lot of folks in VFX.

    But I get your point. I too have Carrara and Carrara content — I was lured into it, but the snails pace of development drew me away from it, and DAZ Studio's free Iray implementation got all of my attention. I am still disappointed by the lack of Genesis 3 DSON Importer support for Poser though.

    Post edited by Kaleb242 on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,575
    Jan19 said:
    No Connect 4 Me said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Actually the best way to curb piracy is to use a watermark or a code stamp someplace in the content that won't be notice maybe in a code snippit embed into the product with individual serial# for each customer that bought it., its ls less intrusive to the customer and privacy & that way each product sold would have its own customer ID# with out exposing the custer to the public making it traceable and easier find the person responsible and to prosecute them. put a watermark or a code ID into the product  your piracy will stop almost over night and if there is pirated copies issue you will know who was the one who released it.   Many  web site developers are doing this now and it works  even Amazon & Kindle has adopted this policy for their e-books

    Thanks to those who are explaining encryption.  :-)  I know very little about it.

    As for the embedded watermark, I wondered if something like that was possible.  It'd zero in on who is doing what with the content -- using it in the wrong way, I mean.

     

     

    Whilst some sort of watermarking or signing of material would be preferrable to encryption, it would never work for one main reason, DS must also work with unsigned content, ie content you create yourself, download as freebies, or purchase from a different store. That means DS would have to able to recognise that the content you are trying to load is DAZ content, and look for the signature, and refuse to use the content if it failed to find the signature, or the signature was wrong. So all a pirate would need to do is alter the stolen content in some way so that DS no longer thinks it is protected DAZ content. DS could be clever, having a secret record of how to determine something was DAZ, for example looking for a certain word, in a certain file, on a certain line, but they would have to be very careful not to match accidently with some other content, that is not DAZ, and that would really annoy the user if they could not load that.

    In short signatures seem a good idea, but are very difficult to work in a relatively free for all content market that we have now. I am sure DAZ considered it, and then realized that it was not workable.

  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 4,112

    Wait till they find out there's a personal ID in each file that traces back to the buyer Lol! Just kidding guys don't take it seriously wink

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,685
    TesseractSpace said:
     

    If there's an error in a plaintext .duf, I can go in and edit it myself if I choose rather than waiting on a ticket process. This is impossible in an encrypted .duf

    Not true, you can load the item, make the change and save it as a new version until the error is fixed.

    TesseractSpace said:

    If I wish to relocate parts of a product to suit whatever setup I'm running, I can do so. Not so with encrypted products which must remain where they install to as I can't simply rewrite where they look for components.

    Not true.  Daz has already provided a capability to provide links to the Connect-installed files (encrypted or not) so you can move them around in your file browser.  As for components, why do you need to move around the components?  If you routinely like to move around files in Data or in Runtime:Textures, why?

  • MorpheonMorpheon Posts: 738
    edited January 2016
    icecrmn said:
     

    Daz is the only store I know of that will give you free fixes and updates to products, after you have bought them.

    Renderosity has done that for years. Have you never received an email from them telling you that an item you purchased has been updated and the new files are waiting for you to download?

    Post edited by Morpheon on
This discussion has been closed.