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No encrypted for me.

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  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited January 2016
    RCTSpanky said:
     

    DAZ_Spooky said:

    How do you install Content now? (Note this is not a "Cloud Service.")

    I download all files manually from my Product Library, (on this way I have a backup at the same time). Then I open the zipped IM-Files and copy the files to the locations, where I want to have them. I use DIM only for DAZ Studio Program Updates.

    So you connect to Daz 3D.com from your work computer and download your content? 

    If I am understanding you correctly, then the only difference is you are connecting to the web site from Daz Studio, instead of using a browser. So for you, there is no issue here.

    Organizing content is a topic for a different thread. As soon as I get a few minutes I'll start such a thread. (Though I might not get to it before tomorrow.) 

    Post edited by DAZ_Spooky on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,082
    RCTSpanky said:
    Leana said:
    RCTSpanky said:

     

    I download all files manually from my Product Library, (on this way I have a backup at the same time). Then I open the zipped IM-Files and copy the files to the locations, where I want to have them. I use DIM only for DAZ Studio Program Updates.

    I also manually download the zips, then unzip them then move the files to the places I want them.  I don't use DIM at all.  Very happy to not be DIM'd or Connect'd

     

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Ivy said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Actually the best way to curb piracy is to use a watermark or a code stamp someplace in the content that won't be notice maybe in a code snippit embed into the product with individual serial# for each customer that bought it., its ls less intrusive to the customer and privacy & that way each product sold would have its own customer ID# with out exposing the custer to the public making it traceable and easier find the person responsible and to prosecute them. put a watermark or a code ID into the product  your piracy will stop almost over night and if there is pirated copies issue you will know who was the one who released it.   Many  web site developers are doing this now and it works  even Amazon & Kindle has adopted this policy for their e-books

    Unencrypted DSON is a human readable text file. It is not something you can add a watermark or even a customer ID to without encrypting it. 

  • RCTSpankyRCTSpanky Posts: 850
    edited January 2016
    DAZ_Spooky said:

    DAZ_Spooky said:

    How do you install Content now? (Note this is not a "Cloud Service.")

    I download all files manually from my Product Library, (on this way I have a backup at the same time). Then I open the zipped IM-Files and copy the files to the locations, where I want to have them. I use DIM only for DAZ Studio Program Updates.

    So you connect to Daz 3D.com from your work computer and download your content? 

    If I am understanding you correctly, then the only difference is you are connecting to the web site from Daz Studio, instead of using a browser. So for you, there is no issue here.

    Organizing content is a topic for a different thread. As soon as I get a few minutes I'll start such a thread. (Though I might not get to it before tomorrow.) 

    No, I connect to DAZ from my home computer save the files to my external harddisc and copy them from there. No DAZ Servers are harmed that way via my Work Computer.

    Post edited by RCTSpanky on
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited January 2016
    RCTSpanky said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:

    DAZ_Spooky said:

    How do you install Content now? (Note this is not a "Cloud Service.")

    I download all files manually from my Product Library, (on this way I have a backup at the same time). Then I open the zipped IM-Files and copy the files to the locations, where I want to have them. I use DIM only for DAZ Studio Program Updates.

    So you connect to Daz 3D.com from your work computer and download your content? 

    If I am understanding you correctly, then the only difference is you are connecting to the web site from Daz Studio, instead of using a browser. So for you, there is no issue here.

    Organizing content is a topic for a different thread. As soon as I get a few minutes I'll start such a thread. (Though I might not get to it before tomorrow.) 

    No, I connect to DAZ from my home computer save the files to my external harddisc and copy them from there. No DAZ Servers are harmed that way.

    No Daz servers are harmed either way. :) IN fact not connecting to them makes them feel lonely and under appreciated. :) 

    Are you able to connect one time to the server from the work computer? 

    Post edited by DAZ_Spooky on
  • RCTSpankyRCTSpanky Posts: 850

    I could, but I want keep my job!

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    RCTSpanky said:

    I could, but I want keep my job!

    Then, at this time, no encrypted data on that computer. The other products work just fine. 

  • gregbogregbo Posts: 39

    @Ivy - Thanks for allowing use of this icon... Pretty much says it all when it comes to my feelings on this. ;)

     

    Ivy said:

    yes you may  its free to all who would like it  as a peaceful protest

     

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,935

    A lot of people seem to have decided that my cinema ticket analogy was meant as a defence of the whole encryption system - it wasn't. It was specifically addressing the idea that daz is showing it doesn't trust honest users, or is treating honest suers as crooks, with the encrytption - and I believe it stands as a valid analogy there (though I do accept that it's more restrictive than simply showing your ticket at the door, or entering a PIN to show you do in fact own the card you are using).

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,935
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Piracy has been getting worse.

    You are begging questions there - not least, "does nVidia give Daz free licenses for Iray in DS?" (I am not privy to the terms of the deal, but it's certainly not soemthing that should be blithely assumed).

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830

    In order to determine if piracy is indeed getting worse, I started looking for studies and hard data to see if this is indeed the case.  I was not able to find ANY data or studies that referred to the piracy of 3D assets.  Movies, music, games, ebooks, and audio books all have information and some hard numbers out there.  From what I am seeing, it looks to be about the same over the last few years and some companies don't even bother with DRM anymore.  

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,582
    Richard Haseltine said:

    A lot of people seem to have decided that my cinema ticket analogy was meant as a defence of the whole encryption system - it wasn't. It was specifically addressing the idea that daz is showing it doesn't trust honest users, or is treating honest suers as crooks, with the encrytption - and I believe it stands as a valid analogy there (though I do accept that it's more restrictive than simply showing your ticket at the door, or entering a PIN to show you do in fact own the card you are using).

    To continue your analogy, what we had before was a ticket check at the door. Now DAZ wants to check tickets if we step out of the movie to get more popcorn or use the bathroom. It's a move to a lesser degree of trust.
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited January 2016
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Ivy said:
     

    Unencrypted DSON is a human readable text file. It is not something you can add a watermark or even a customer ID to without encrypting it. 

    Sir I disagree . when I publish books with createspace for kindle ebooks on Amazon those books are not encrypted.  But they are given a embed IUN number that matches the UPC bar code on each book, if that book ends up being prited its traceable to  by the IUN to the person that bought the original copy.

    Daz could very easily place a UPC/ or UIN code in a snippet embed in the part of the product that is used to make the product load in the studio software making it a product with out in encryption  just like a UPC code on a  cereal box only its electronic embedding ... it would work because because if you remove the iun number which is part of the product load workings  the product would error on load  & it would render the product useless because its part of the product loading data.. it may not work for all products especially like poses and some types of texture maps  But it would work for models that use Geometry .obj for its base.or Character texuture s that use the data file to load with. .Just the thought of  it being a traceable products to pirates is a very big deterrent & plus daz would not even need to info their customers of this practice of putting IUN in the TOS because they are not putting their customer at risk of being compromised its just a embedded Serial number that would match a number on the sale invoice that on the product inventory sheet for each thats sold 

    this makes each product that has been embed with this UPC or UIN number would be traceable if it were to be pirated and useless if removed from the product. and even If you have to encrypt the product  issue serial numbesr  for each product sold  with out cloud  like you do for plugins to be validated. I for one would support something like that over a  DRM cloud based servers controlling my content.

     But that is just my opinion

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Ivy said:
     
    Ivy said:

    Sir I disagree . when I publish books with createspace for kindle ebooks on Amazon those books are not encrypted.  But they are given a embed IUN number that matches the UPC bar code on each book, if that book ends up being prited its traceable to  by the IUN to the person that bought the original copy.

    Daz could very easily place a UPC/ or UIN code in a snippet embed in the part of the product that is used to make the product load in the studio software making it a product with out in encryption  just like a UPC code on a  cereal box only its electronic embedding ... it would work because because if you remove the iun number which is part of the product load workings  the product would error on load  & it would render the product useless because its part of the product loading data.. it may not work for all products especially like poses and some types of texture maps  But it would work for models that use Geometry .obj for its base.or Character texuture s that use the data file to load with. .Just the thought of  it being a traceable products to pirates is a very big deterrent & plus daz would not even need to info their customers of this practice of putting IUN in the TOS because they are not putting their customer at risk of being compromised its just a embedded Serial number that would match a number on the sale invoice that on the product inventory sheet for each thats sold 

    this makes each product that has been embed with this UPC or UIN number would be traceable if it were to be pirated and useless if removed from the product. and even If you have to encrypt the product  issue serial numbesr  for each product sold  with out cloud  like you do for plugins to be validated. I for one would support something like that over a  DRM cloud based servers controlling my content.

     But that is just my opinion

    Clearly we are using different definitions for plain text. I'll let you get back to it. 

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,575
    Richard Haseltine said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Piracy has been getting worse.

    You are begging questions there - not least, "does nVidia give Daz free licenses for Iray in DS?" (I am not privy to the terms of the deal, but it's certainly not soemthing that should be blithely assumed).

    Could you please point out any references you have for why you say: "Piracy has been getting worse". It may indeed be true, but I have heard contrary evidence. A friend of mine who is a part owner of a software company, whose own products have been widely pirated in the past, has told me the opposite. He said, that whilst his products are still undoubtable pirated, it is much less of an issue now than it was before.

  • wizwiz Posts: 1,100
    Superdog said:

    To put things into perspective, I have a sub at Videoblocks who sell video templates and loops. I also own hundreds of audio sample products. All of which are commercial content protected by copyright law but none of this is encrypted and these companies still manage to be profitable. I assume they too are exposed to piracy which has been debated ad nauseum elsewhere and none of the copy protections have worked so for those of us who value our computer systems too much to risk using that rubbish and who pay for everything, it's pretty annoyng to see R&D time and budget wasted on encryption systems that make no measurable difference to sales when this could have been better spent improving the software.

    Of course "but none of this is encrypted and these companies still manage to be profitable." Study after study points out that DRM hurts the content creators even more than it hurts the customers, and a lack of DRM results in increasing legitimate sales. I put this together for a forum post back in October.

    Study of DRM in the Korean music industry shows that DRM had a larger negative impact on sales than piracy did.

    https://ideas.repec.org/p/snv/dp2009/201072.html

    Arizona State found the same thing in a study of the buying habits of 2,000 test subjects. Lack of DRM increased sales.

    http://journals.ama.org/doi/abs/10.1509/jmkg.74.2.40

    Again at Rice

    http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/mksc.1110.0668

    TOR removes eBook DRM, piracy doesn't increase, but sales do.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/suwcharmananderson/2013/04/29/tor-no-discernible-increase-in-piracy-after-year-without-drm/

    O'Reilly found exactly the same thing.

    http://toc.oreilly.com/2011/01/book-piracy-drm-data.html

    To sum it up, DRM hurts content crteators, content vendors, and consumers. The only people it doesn't hurt are DRM vendors. Is there a Grimer Wormtongue licensing some encryption to DAZ, selling them a bill of goods?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,935
    Havos said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Piracy has been getting worse.

    You are begging questions there - not least, "does nVidia give Daz free licenses for Iray in DS?" (I am not privy to the terms of the deal, but it's certainly not soemthing that should be blithely assumed).

    Could you please point out any references you have for why you say: "Piracy has been getting worse". It may indeed be true, but I have heard contrary evidence. A friend of mine who is a part owner of a software company, whose own products have been widely pirated in the past, has told me the opposite. He said, that whilst his products are still undoubtable pirated, it is much less of an issue now than it was before.

    I meant specifically Poser/DS content piracy, rather than gernally, and even then it's based on perception rather than measure - including the "worse" of the growing number of sites that take payments (subscriptions, donations or whatever) up front for access to the content.

  • gregbogregbo Posts: 39
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Havos said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Piracy has been getting worse.

    You are begging questions there - not least, "does nVidia give Daz free licenses for Iray in DS?" (I am not privy to the terms of the deal, but it's certainly not soemthing that should be blithely assumed).

    Could you please point out any references you have for why you say: "Piracy has been getting worse". It may indeed be true, but I have heard contrary evidence. A friend of mine who is a part owner of a software company, whose own products have been widely pirated in the past, has told me the opposite. He said, that whilst his products are still undoubtable pirated, it is much less of an issue now than it was before.

    I meant specifically Poser/DS content piracy, rather than gernally, and even then it's based on perception rather than measure - including the "worse" of the growing number of sites that take payments (subscriptions, donations or whatever) up front for access to the content.

    Mmmmmm, what?!? indecision

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,582
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Havos said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Piracy has been getting worse.

    You are begging questions there - not least, "does nVidia give Daz free licenses for Iray in DS?" (I am not privy to the terms of the deal, but it's certainly not soemthing that should be blithely assumed).

    Could you please point out any references you have for why you say: "Piracy has been getting worse". It may indeed be true, but I have heard contrary evidence. A friend of mine who is a part owner of a software company, whose own products have been widely pirated in the past, has told me the opposite. He said, that whilst his products are still undoubtable pirated, it is much less of an issue now than it was before.

    I meant specifically Poser/DS content piracy, rather than gernally, and even then it's based on perception rather than measure - including the "worse" of the growing number of sites that take payments (subscriptions, donations or whatever) up front for access to the content.

    Gotta laugh there. I'd wager 99% of the sites that take payment have little to no content and exist solely to scam people who are left in no position to report it. (What could they say? "I paid these guys for illegal software and they ripped me off!" Police would get a chuckle out of that one.) All the DRM in the world won't make them go away because they don't need content. The fact that the content exists at all is enough to bait the trap. And anyone who gets ripped off like that should consider it a lesson learned.
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,575
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Havos said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Piracy has been getting worse.

    You are begging questions there - not least, "does nVidia give Daz free licenses for Iray in DS?" (I am not privy to the terms of the deal, but it's certainly not soemthing that should be blithely assumed).

    Could you please point out any references you have for why you say: "Piracy has been getting worse". It may indeed be true, but I have heard contrary evidence. A friend of mine who is a part owner of a software company, whose own products have been widely pirated in the past, has told me the opposite. He said, that whilst his products are still undoubtable pirated, it is much less of an issue now than it was before.

    I meant specifically Poser/DS content piracy, rather than gernally, and even then it's based on perception rather than measure - including the "worse" of the growing number of sites that take payments (subscriptions, donations or whatever) up front for access to the content.

    That may be true, I have no idea how many these there are. I have seen links to some in google searchs, but as far as torrent sites are concerned, I do not know as I do not use torrents. The main issue however is if potential customers are more or less likely to pick up pirated content than in the past, which is naturally far harder to prove one way or the other. My friend was referring to the drop in sales he saw when pirated versions of his software first appeared on pirate sites. His comment (and this was just a few weeks ago), was whilst before they saw a big drop in their sales, literally within hours of the pirate version arriving, that was less true now. I derive from that the conclusion that most people grabbing his applications illegally today are the sort that would never have bought a legal version anyway.

    Certainly the music scene is seeing robust sales of legal content, when a few years ago almost all online music was illegal, but naturally a lot of that can be explained by the fact that earlier getting legal digital music was not even possible.

    There are so many unknowns regarding the advantages or disadvantages of DRM, the only way we will know if this experiment DAZ is starting on is a success, is if there is a significant increase in the sales of encrypted content. I personally doubt it will (I suspect sales will stay largely as they are), but only time will tell.

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Havos said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Piracy has been getting worse.

    You are begging questions there - not least, "does nVidia give Daz free licenses for Iray in DS?" (I am not privy to the terms of the deal, but it's certainly not soemthing that should be blithely assumed).

    Could you please point out any references you have for why you say: "Piracy has been getting worse". It may indeed be true, but I have heard contrary evidence. A friend of mine who is a part owner of a software company, whose own products have been widely pirated in the past, has told me the opposite. He said, that whilst his products are still undoubtable pirated, it is much less of an issue now than it was before.

    I meant specifically Poser/DS content piracy, rather than gernally, and even then it's based on perception rather than measure - including the "worse" of the growing number of sites that take payments (subscriptions, donations or whatever) up front for access to the content.

    "Perception rather than measure" is not hard data, is completely subjective, and is not an accurate assessment of what may or may not be happening.  Just because something LOOKS worse does not mean it IS worse.  Give us some hard data that we can fact check for ourselves and should your perception prove out, more of us might be on board with you.  Also if you "perceive" that its the illegitimate subscription sites causing the issue, go after them rather than inconvenience the legitimate paying customers.

     

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,935

    -

    Daikatana said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Havos said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Piracy has been getting worse.

    You are begging questions there - not least, "does nVidia give Daz free licenses for Iray in DS?" (I am not privy to the terms of the deal, but it's certainly not soemthing that should be blithely assumed).

    Could you please point out any references you have for why you say: "Piracy has been getting worse". It may indeed be true, but I have heard contrary evidence. A friend of mine who is a part owner of a software company, whose own products have been widely pirated in the past, has told me the opposite. He said, that whilst his products are still undoubtable pirated, it is much less of an issue now than it was before.

    I meant specifically Poser/DS content piracy, rather than gernally, and even then it's based on perception rather than measure - including the "worse" of the growing number of sites that take payments (subscriptions, donations or whatever) up front for access to the content.

    "Perception rather than measure" is not hard data, is completely subjective, and is not an accurate assessment of what may or may not be happening.  Just because something LOOKS worse does not mean it IS worse.  Give us some hard data that we can fact check for ourselves and should your perception prove out, more of us might be on board with you.  Also if you "perceive" that its the illegitimate subscription sites causing the issue, go after them rather than inconvenience the legitimate paying customers.

    Since I asn't a decison-maker with respect to encryption 9and would have decided agaisnt if I had been) my perceptions are not entirely relevant, and I shouldn't have mentioned them in the quoted post. However, the way people perceive the market does affect their willingness tot ake part as vendors - which obviosuly affects us when it comes to the content available - so I don't think perception in general is irrelevant if it was a factor in the decision to implement the encryption component of Connect, of which I have no knowledge.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    Fixmypcmike said:

    This product now does not state anything. https://www.daz3d.com/victoria-7-attitude-bundle

    Bundles don't, only the individual products in the bundle do -- I'll ask Daz about it.

    Thought I'd caught an error. Since I don't want encrypted content I must now pay more attention to bundles before adding to cart.

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996

    Also a site that I won't name because it is evilly competing against Daz with its own products has an offer up "our content will always be DRM free!" with saving coupons promoting their lack of DRM.

    (Shame their sales suck and are so short term you're lucky if you get the email in time, but still amusing.)

  • AlienRendersAlienRenders Posts: 794

    Both rendo and rdna are having sales. rendo is actively promoting DRM-FREE content and rightly so. It's like we're back in the 80's and none of the lessons of DRM being evil have been learned.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,847
    Jan19 said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...also not pleased with the idea having to sign in to use the programme or newer encrypted content. I avoid going online when working on a scene or rendering as it competes for processor and memory resources (and I've seen FF, particularly the newer versions, bloat to almost 1GB in memory). 

    A lot of us don't have 32 or 64 GB or memory as we have slightly older systems. Just running Windows alone leaves me with 11 GB of useable memory which when rendering a large scene can disappear real quick, dumping the process into "glacial" swap mode.

    You can work offline -- I think you only have to sign in once.  Working while connected last nite -- Iray render -- did coincide w/a hard freeze of my computer.  First one in a long time.  (I'm running Windows 10.)  I'm not sure that the freeze and 4.9 are connected, but that's the last program I had open, and closing it preceded the freeze. 

    That said, installing content thru DS is convenient, even though it takes awhile.  Better than DIM, which hasn't worked for me in months and months.  But the Connect stuff goes into a new library, not my old one.   

     

    ...I've had little if any issue with the DIM ever since I got a fast, stable connection. It really isn't that much of a bother to open it once a day, even if I haven't purchased anything, to see if there are any product updates.

    Never was a big fan of auto updating. 

  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,603

    I've just found a Rendo email, the first words "DRM-FREE!"

    I have a feeling that rival companies are going to have a field day over this DRM/encryption stuff.

     

  • gregbogregbo Posts: 39
    lx said:

    Also a site that I won't name because it is evilly competing against Daz with its own products has an offer up "our content will always be DRM free!" with saving coupons promoting their lack of DRM.

    (Shame their sales suck and are so short term you're lucky if you get the email in time, but still amusing.)

    Saw that too. And I agree mostly about the sales.

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830
    Richard Haseltine said:

    -

    Daikatana said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Havos said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    millighost said:

    I do not think the content encryption has much to do with making the pirates' lives harder. It probably does make a pirate life harder, but i think it just does not matter (at least for DAZ). Nowadays vendors had 10 years time or so to become accustomed to piracy and probably have adjusted their prices and expected sales with the existance of piracy taken into account anyway. So why start fighting piracy now? Do they suddenly feel the urge to make all their products cheaper? Sounds unlikely to me.

    To prevent piracy, all the DS application would need to do is to check if the content is legit, i.e. if it was previously bought be the user (provided that the Dson content is mainly used in DazStudio). If one wants to throw cryptography at that challenge, one would use a so called signature algorithm. Most signature algorithms do not require the data to be unreadable. Think of Https (e.g. like in the personal account area of this site): Https authenticates the daz account area to the user, so the user can be sure that the page really comes from daz. It does not make it unreadable. So a pirate could copy the webpage, but it cannot be used as a replacement for the daz-page, because of the 's' in 'Https'. The same mechanism could be used to authenticate content. But DazConnect does not use signatures; it uses encryption. So the question naturally is: what is this encryption trying to accomplish besides restricting illegal usage of content? At least if this encryption scheme was engineered intentionally.

    One possibility it might be used for is a way to implement vendor-lock-in. Or to be more exact, it will happen, but if it will be a blessing or a curse can not be foreseen today. But the effect is not so much to lock out non-users (ie pirates) of using the products, but to lock in existing users with the software (and the content), so that they continue use the products (that can be a good or a bad thing, but its usually good for the vendor, i.e. Daz in this case). Like DAZ_* wrote more than once, they have no plans for the near future to do this and that. Above all they probably have no plans for the more far future. For example if DS will be free of charge forever. Might not be the question today, but maybe in a year or two? It might also be out of DAZ's control. Perhaps one day the NVIDIA's revenue stream originating from DS users buying high end graphics cards might trickle, and NVIDIA might say: "Sorry Daz, the free iray doesn't cut it any more, from now on you have to pay $100 for every iray license". I could imagine a lot of users would not pay that and look for alternatives. Who knows, by the time that happens some competitors (like Poser or 3dsmax)  might have implemented the Dson format, and might actually be cheaper and/or better in every aspect. But even if 3dsmax would cost only $10 and had a perfect Dson format reader: if a user had built a considerable $1000-library of encrypted content which only DS can read, the user would likely swallow the pill and pay the price for the newest DS version, just to keep that content.

    An example where that worked out rather well in the 3d-world is 3dmax. Once i have a considerable library of .max files, i will buy (or rent) the 3dsmax software. It does not really matter to me if 3dsmax contains bugs, provides no innovations or is worth its money. I will buy it anyway because no other non-autodesk application can read those .max files. It could also be called customer-loyalty instead of vendor-lock-in. Does not sound so negative.

    Piracy has been getting worse.

    You are begging questions there - not least, "does nVidia give Daz free licenses for Iray in DS?" (I am not privy to the terms of the deal, but it's certainly not soemthing that should be blithely assumed).

    Could you please point out any references you have for why you say: "Piracy has been getting worse". It may indeed be true, but I have heard contrary evidence. A friend of mine who is a part owner of a software company, whose own products have been widely pirated in the past, has told me the opposite. He said, that whilst his products are still undoubtable pirated, it is much less of an issue now than it was before.

    I meant specifically Poser/DS content piracy, rather than gernally, and even then it's based on perception rather than measure - including the "worse" of the growing number of sites that take payments (subscriptions, donations or whatever) up front for access to the content.

    "Perception rather than measure" is not hard data, is completely subjective, and is not an accurate assessment of what may or may not be happening.  Just because something LOOKS worse does not mean it IS worse.  Give us some hard data that we can fact check for ourselves and should your perception prove out, more of us might be on board with you.  Also if you "perceive" that its the illegitimate subscription sites causing the issue, go after them rather than inconvenience the legitimate paying customers.

    Since I asn't a decison-maker with respect to encryption 9and would have decided agaisnt if I had been) my perceptions are not entirely relevant, and I shouldn't have mentioned them in the quoted post. However, the way people perceive the market does affect their willingness tot ake part as vendors - which obviosuly affects us when it comes to the content available - so I don't think perception in general is irrelevant if it was a factor in the decision to implement the encryption component of Connect, of which I have no knowledge.

    Thank you for clarifying.  Your candor is appreciated.  :)

     

     

  • gregbogregbo Posts: 39
    AlienRenders said:

    It's like we're back in the 80's and none of the lessons of DRM being evil have been learned.

    Totally... I'm afraid DAZ is about to find out the hard way what happens when one "puts Baby in a corner".

    (Being a child of the 80's I had to go there) ;)

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