formerly male content creation thread

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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,358

    This is a matter of individual artist preference.

    My rule of thumb has generally been that if the clothing's back side will ever be visible, it needs a back layer.  Thus, yes on loincloths and capes; maybe on long skirts and dresses/robes; no on pants, stockings, regular shirts and underwear.  Shirts with collars I generally give a sort of "hybrid" geometry where there is a back layer only to the lapel and collar areas (admittedly it's been a very long time, and now I might just do a full dual layer).  Body suits are most often given thickness only at collar and hem areas.

    I gave my last clothing products full thicknesses.  Both were cocktail-length dresses with shoes and jewelry, so they had a lot of exposed back-layer and hems.

    If you're doing this with Blender alone (not with for e.g. Zbrush's Extract Subtool function) I've gotten better results using E - hold Alt - S (that's Extrude plus scale the extruded geometry along normals) rather than Solidify; but by all means do your own experiments.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,979

    Okay, thanks for the advice. I haven't really gotten used to moving/scaling using anything other than global yet; every time I tried changing the transform tool setting in properties to something else, it never seemed to do what I'd had in my mind. I also had no idea you could combine extrude set to normals with scale. I did a quick tests and after a few false starts, it looks better to me (or at least will need less adjusting) than solidify.

  • In Blender, I prefer image empties for loading images.  Background images only work in ortho view or camera view.  With image empties, I can see them in perspective which I find very helpful.

  • KevinHKevinH Posts: 975

    Diomede...I'm wondering about your "Not great but better" picture. Did you create the ring in red by creating a loop slice? Couldn't you the ring that comes after that? And maybe extrude a new row? Or would you still have the same problem. It's hard to get a good look at that area to know for sure.

    So how do they get the nice rows in the figure...was it genesis?

    Would you be able to create a separate ring around the arm and then join it to the rest of the shirt?

  • RCTSpankyRCTSpanky Posts: 803
    edited November 2015

    If this should go to be a kind of group (maybe "Male Clothes Creators Guilde"), someone should make base models of G2M (and later for G3M too) in the real size for DAZ Studio for different modellers like Hexagon, Blender etc. So anyone who participate here can use the same model as base for his own creations.

    This would make it later easier to ask anyone for help, because all models should work on other modellers without big resizing. A few basemeshes for clothes (in OBJ-format) would also be great.

    I can model some clothes, but I have no experiences with rigging etc. So i would appreciate any help of other artists, when my models are "done". But to send my models to other creators I think we need a kind of base so that other artists can import and work on my models too without great problems with resize, different file formats etc.

    Please take that just as a suggestion.

    Post edited by RCTSpanky on
  • It would be nice to have clothes real men would wear. I don't know any man over the age of 30 that wears skinny jeans.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,358
    RCTSpanky said:

    If this should go to be a kind of group (maybe "Male Clothes Creators Guilde"), someone should make base models of G2M (and later for G3M too) in the real size for DAZ Studio for different modellers like Hexagon, Blender etc. So anyone who participate here can use the same model as base for his own creations.

    It's a violation of the Terms of Service because it would entail re-releasing DAZ's geometry, or it would've been done long ago.  This is an early step for any artist, exporting your meshes out at the scale you want to use.

  • It would be nice to have clothes real men would wear. I don't know any man over the age of 30 that wears skinny jeans.

    Have you checked out the Morphing Business Suit Bundle in the store?  There's a lot of content in it that can be mixed and matched for formal and casual dress.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,133
    daveleitz said:

    Have you checked out the Morphing Business Suit Bundle in the store?  There's a lot of content in it that can be mixed and matched for formal and casual dress.

    Really hoping that gets on sale at some point. ;)

     

  • daveleitz said:

    Have you checked out the Morphing Business Suit Bundle in the store?  There's a lot of content in it that can be mixed and matched for formal and casual dress.

    Really hoping that gets on sale at some point. ;)

     

    It was in the Fast Grab last days. But I'm sure it will be avaialble for sale soon again.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,133

    Well... hopefully in a month when I next have money. Heh.

    This month, went 'ok, be sure to leave half of budget for sales...'

    That lasted a day. Now down to $12 and hoping there aren't too many more PC+ sales to miss.

  • RCTSpankyRCTSpanky Posts: 803
    edited November 2015

    deleted by myself

    Post edited by RCTSpanky on
  • lxlx Posts: 2,979
    RCTSpanky said:

    If this should go to be a kind of group (maybe "Male Clothes Creators Guilde"), someone should make base models of G2M (and later for G3M too) in the real size for DAZ Studio for different modellers like Hexagon, Blender etc. So anyone who participate here can use the same model as base for his own creations.

    It's a violation of the Terms of Service because it would entail re-releasing DAZ's geometry, or it would've been done long ago.  This is an early step for any artist, exporting your meshes out at the scale you want to use.

    Personally I just set the scale for Blender to match Daz figures at their "real" heights. Set it once, save as startup, never think about resizing ever again. I don't know if other programs can do the same thing but it seems like something they should?

    Also wouldn't that suggestion just be posting scaled OBJs of g2m? Didn't someone already link that near the start of the thread? You can't do that?

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,728

    Great questions. 

    Regarding improving a crappy mesh like the one I posted earlier with the yellow circles, there are almost always several ways to solve a problem. If I understand your suggestion correctly, I believe that could work.  That is, someone could delete the entire outer loop that I said had the problematic polygon that I highlighted in yellow, then select the edge of the loop that is in red (the better loop), and then extrude a new loop to replace the deleted region.  Of, course, you would have to then do some editing of the extruded replacement.  Some other tools that a person might consider include dissolving a couple of polygons in just the problem region and then editing to add another edge vertex and connect that edge to the middle of the dissolve.  Dissolve eliminates interior lines so that multiple polygons become a single polygon.  Or, one could break up the yellow problem vertex that is the highlighted polygon's only point on the edge.  Once broken into multiple vertexes, there would be room for a new polyon to replace the problem vertex that is flush against the edge. If any of those didn't make any sense, I am trying to say that there are several ways that would result in an outer loop in which each polygon is 4-sided and has 2 of its vertexes along the arm hole. 

    Regarding creating a separate ring around the arm and joining it to the torso mesh, yes absolutely.  In fact, some people align multiple primitive shapes to one side of a figure (a cylinder for the forearm, a cylinder for the shoulder, a trapezoid for the torso, etc., and then weld them and edit to get a low poly start, then use duplicate with symmetry to mirror for the other side. 

    RE: the figure - it is the genesis 2 male.

     

     

     

     

    KevinH said:

    Diomede...I'm wondering about your "Not great but better" picture. Did you create the ring in red by creating a loop slice? Couldn't you the ring that comes after that? And maybe extrude a new row? Or would you still have the same problem. It's hard to get a good look at that area to know for sure.

    So how do they get the nice rows in the figure...was it genesis?

    Would you be able to create a separate ring around the arm and then join it to the rest of the shirt?

     

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 7,071
    edited November 2015
    RCTSpanky said:

    If this should go to be a kind of group (maybe "Male Clothes Creators Guilde"), someone should make base models of G2M (and later for G3M too) in the real size for DAZ Studio for different modellers like Hexagon, Blender etc. So anyone who participate here can use the same model as base for his own creations.

    This would make it later easier to ask anyone for help, because all models should work on other modellers without big resizing. A few basemeshes for clothes (in OBJ-format) would also be great.

    I can model some clothes, but I have no experiences with rigging etc. So i would appreciate any help of other artists, when my models are "done". But to send my models to other creators I think we need a kind of base so that other artists can import and work on my models too without great problems with resize, different file formats etc.

    Please take that just as a suggestion.

    As long as you are exporting the model from Daz Studio to use in your 3D program, you are all using the same model.  As for scale, as lx says, you can choose the output scale recommended for your particular program.  You can also try other scales.  For morphs, it's important that the export and import scales match.  These same scalings are provided when importing an obj as opposed to loading a morph through MLP.  So there is really no reason to provide anything else but what you have in DS already.

    The other artists you work with would just need to own the same assets you do and export them as obj the same way as you do if they need to work with it outside of DS.  Again, to match scale, let them know what scale you used for export and import.

    Post edited by Cris Palomino on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    There is no rule stating that you HAVE to use the 'native' scale of your modeling program.  If you are willing to use Daz native scale and build everything to a reference object in that scale, it can be the 'uniform' scale.  Or passing the obj back and forth on a collaborative effort item, a simple trip through studio can set it to any scale you want (yeah it can introduce some 'rounding' errors, but usually not enough to matter).

  • mjc1016 said:

    There is no rule stating that you HAVE to use the 'native' scale of your modeling program.  If you are willing to use Daz native scale and build everything to a reference object in that scale, it can be the 'uniform' scale.  Or passing the obj back and forth on a collaborative effort item, a simple trip through studio can set it to any scale you want (yeah it can introduce some 'rounding' errors, but usually not enough to matter).

    And to emphasize, the OBJ being the clothing and not the Daz figure object since the figures can't be redistributed.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    mjc1016 said:

    There is no rule stating that you HAVE to use the 'native' scale of your modeling program.  If you are willing to use Daz native scale and build everything to a reference object in that scale, it can be the 'uniform' scale.  Or passing the obj back and forth on a collaborative effort item, a simple trip through studio can set it to any scale you want (yeah it can introduce some 'rounding' errors, but usually not enough to matter).

    And to emphasize, the OBJ being the clothing and not the Daz figure object since the figures can't be redistributed.

    That should be a given...it's very simple for everyone to export a uniform set of figures.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,728
    edited November 2015
    mjc1016 said:

    Is this what people are asking for?

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,358
    edited November 2015

    Those are new topology, not direct copies of geometry - just a look at the thigh and bicep areas and their lack of loops where the muscle groups come together makes that obvious.  Muscle sculpts are easier in Genesis 2 and 3 partly because of the mesh construction (making my own Orc character from Fantastical Features much simpler), so looking for those loops at the edge of the abs, etc. is a good giveaway if it's violating TOS or not.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • lxlx Posts: 2,979

    Legalese kinda makes my head hurt.

    Not being allowed to export G2M and supply it to many, I absolutely understand. The product can't come from someone who isn't Daz. That makes sense.
    Now say I am a clothing design company and we have two computers next to each other with the exact same installs.
    Both computers can export G2M for use as a mannikin to model on top of so long as it isn't distributed to anyone. 
    However if you transfer the G2M OBJ from the first computer to the second it's illegal, despite both computers having the content already and/or being able to generate it?

    Also how do body suits work? If the outfit is completely skin tight it seems to make sense to just follow the topology of the existing figure, but obviously you can't distribute that... or can you only make items like that with some sort of licence or agreement?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,240

    That is covered in the EULA, you can have the same content on multiple computers, as long as they are under the control of the person paying for the content license.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,979

    Ah right. Sorry, sometimes I just need things spelled out.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,358

    The second one, unless you've found a way to basically follow those edge loops without copying them perfectly; which would be very difficult, and I will say from experience, few are going to do that.  What will happen is that they'll retopo over it in another program, then use something like Zremesher to refine the geometry, then hand-edit the parts that need tweaking (especially the nipple and joint areas).  Many of us will use remeshed geometry and just make it denser than the default in order to ensure a closer fit, if we're making a bodysuit.

    If an artist felt that only a direct copy of the base geometry would do, they might be able to get away with that if they asked in advance and the product was intended only for sale in the Daz store itself.  Daz will never approve that for sale elsewhere, so if you ask but they end up not liking the final product, you can neither sell it nor give it away and you are out your time on it, a heartbreaking result for any artist.  That's a big risk when you can get a good fit with using retopology instead.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,979

    That makes sense, thanks. Sigh, back to the kingdom of can't afford Zbrush.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,358
    lx said:

    That makes sense, thanks. Sigh, back to the kingdom of can't afford Zbrush.

    It's not like there are no options.  You can create something with box or strip modeling; you can transfer utility convert JoeQuick's freebies (which you need to learn to do anyway, it gives you WAY more options for content creation).

    Load the G2M bodysuit (or whatever) into the scene.

    Load G3F (or whatever, it has to have a G2M clone though) into the scene.

    Start Transfer Utility.

    Set the source as G3F and the target as the bodysuit.

    Under the source set Clone: G2M.

    Down in the options check "reverse source shape from target."

    Click OK.

    Now the mesh is converted to the new shape.  You can export it as obj and still use it as a base for other items if you wish.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,728
    edited November 2015

    OK - I have my idea finalized.based on my background research, references, and my imagination  (See attached silly composite pic!)

    a) Leather boots, rather plain, rising higher on front of shin than back.

    b) Simple tank top undershirt

    c) Pants tucked in boots (and designed to be worn with boots), squarish front panel with two sets of side buttons and gather strap in back, NOT the wide thigh WWI pilot pants.

    d) Coat straps down middle, high collar, pockets in lower front, cuffs at wrists

    e) Gloves with Mat zones to remove thumbs and fingers

    f) Helmet/mask that comes to cheek bone

    g) Accessories: Goggles, neck dangling badge, medals for chest

     

    Pretty ambitious, but I know folks will encourage me through the rough spots.

     

    I will start with the boots and go through the full process.  Here is what I think the process is  (you will soon see that making the initial mesh for the boots is the easy part).

    My Planning  (based on SickleYield earlier)
    1.  Concept design, including seeking reference and other background materials.  (Yay, actually completed a task!)
    2. Model clothing mesh to default G2M base figure in zero pose.  This includes initial material zones and uvmap.
    3. Convert obj to figure.  Transfer utility: source = G2M, Target = cloth obj.  (optional templates in transfer utility, will ask whether it is worth using for shoes)
    4. Add any new bones with associated weightmaps, if appropriate (depends on how lower part of coat behaves). 
    5. Adjust rigging for bending / posing, including joint control morphs (JCMs) and weightmaps
    6. Adjust for full and partial body morphs (FBM, PBM)
    7. Create base textures (probably a task in Gimp, Photoshop,...) - will need lots of advice

    - then repeat 1-7 for other items


    8. Create promo images - will need lots of advice
    9. Submit to Daz store, get rejected
    10.  Tell myself not to take it personally, figure out why initial rejection, and then revise and resubmit, or offer as freebie and then start another project intended for store taking into account lessons from initial project.

    EDIT - Note, I do not intend to have lacy cuffs!

     

    composite pic.jpg
    800 x 800 - 83K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • diomede said:

     

    EDIT - Note, I do not intend to have lacy cuffs!

     

    Damn!

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,728

    Well, I could have a Mat preset for people who want lacy cuffs.  wink

  • KevinHKevinH Posts: 975

    Thanks, Diomede. You understood what I was asking exactly.

    It kind of sounds like you are going to show us what you are doing as you go through your project. I hope I'm understanding correctly. I'm looking forward to it.

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