formerly male content creation thread

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  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 7,045
    edited November 2015

    Yay!

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    Post edited by Cris Palomino on
  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 4,753

    I have made a tutorial for believable looking textured tattoos on DA

    Here is the link:  http://rawart3d.deviantart.com/art/Tattoo-on-skin-texturing-329660194

    Also with iray, it should give alot more possibilities for really natural looking tattoos...I may have to play with that idea someday.

     

    Rawn

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,672
    RawArt said:

    I have made a tutorial for believable looking textured tattoos on DA

    Here is the link:  http://rawart3d.deviantart.com/art/Tattoo-on-skin-texturing-329660194

    Also with iray, it should give alot more possibilities for really natural looking tattoos...I may have to play with that idea someday.

     

    Rawn

    OMGosh, I love Mario!!! Thanks for the information, may give it a try one of these days!

  • lxlx Posts: 2,976
    edited November 2015

    It's been quiet, so I thought I'd update.

    Experimented with making my own mesh over the top for deforming, but it didn't really work out due to the overlapping front parts of the vest. Created the buttons, straps, and inside layer, marked out pockets and linings, made button holes and made them fit (I know a lot of clothes don't bother with this, probably because of how impractical it all is.) Marked out all the seams and created material zones for each part for easy shader assigning. I think I'm done with the model? Or at least bored of it.

    Next up: UV unwrapping. Alternatively, another mocha. Yes, I think the second. 

    Part 2 attached

    Any comments, feedback, things I did wrong, and reasons why you don't approve of my material zone colours are appreciated~

    Part 1

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    Post edited by lx on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,426
    RawArt said:

    I have made a tutorial for believable looking textured tattoos on DA

    Here is the link:  http://rawart3d.deviantart.com/art/Tattoo-on-skin-texturing-329660194

    Also with iray, it should give alot more possibilities for really natural looking tattoos...I may have to play with that idea someday.

     

    Rawn

     

    RawArt said:

    I have made a tutorial for believable looking textured tattoos on DA

    Here is the link:  http://rawart3d.deviantart.com/art/Tattoo-on-skin-texturing-329660194

    Also with iray, it should give alot more possibilities for really natural looking tattoos...I may have to play with that idea someday.

     

    Rawn

    This is awesome thank you!

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,707

    Fantastic update.  I am so jealous.  That is a great vest model.  I especially like the detail for the slits near the buttons.  If I am right that you have already done the UVs and material zones, then you are ready to go to the next task (the transfer utility).  If folks look at your #14 and #19 they can see what a wonderful mesh you have - all quads, relatively evenly sized polygons, good edge flow,...  This vest model is not "crap."  It is the complete opposite of crap. 

    I haven't completed my boots yet in part due to being easily distracted, and in part because I've been trying to learn a new modeler and am having the standard problems of getting used to a new interface. I'll post a first draft soon.

     

    lx said:

    It's been quiet, so I thought I'd update.

    Experimented with making my own mesh over the top for deforming, but it didn't really work out due to the overlapping front parts of the vest. Created the buttons, straps, and inside layer, marked out pockets and linings, made button holes and made them fit (I know a lot of clothes don't bother with this, probably because of how impractical it all is.) Marked out all the seams and created material zones for each part for easy shader assigning. I think I'm done with the model? Or at least bored of it.

    Next up: UV unwrapping. Alternatively, another mocha. Yes, I think the second. 

    Part 2 attached

    Any comments, feedback, things I did wrong, and reasons why you don't approve of my material zone colours are appreciated~

    Part 1

     

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,707
    edited November 2015

    However, because your mesh is so good, I hope you don't mind if I start a conversation that I was going to initiate with my own undershirt. I was hoping folks  could discuss at least 2 of the choices for the clothing creator. And I really mean artistic CHOICE because there are advantages and disadvantages to be considered. No right answer.

    1) Apparently draped folds and wrinkles - if, when, and how to incorporate in the product? These add realism and in principle can be added to a clean mesh with morph dials under the control of the user - but that would add much work to try to finish the product. Or, the folds and wrinkles can be baked into the mesh. Some people use Marvelous Designer as the modeler in order to get the nice folds, but MD is based upon triangles, I believe. One could also use the cloth function in Blender or Poser. Or, one can try to model the folds and wrinkles by hand (I think people have referred to ZBrush in ths way). Or, one can leave the mesh without folds and wrinkles.

    2) Bending and the underlying figure mesh - should the cloth model preserve a clean mesh in reference only to itself (clean vertical and horizontal edge flow like Ix has provided)? Or, should the model at least loosely follow the edge flow of the underlying figure? For example, the G2M has sort of a circular edge flow around the chest muscles. I think that a model that has a similar edge flow in the chest will deform more closely with the chest. However, then it is more difficult for a user to customize the cloth using a polygon select tool or similar function. That is, if the mesh has clean horizontal lines then it is relatively easy for a user to create their own material zone, apply tanparency, and create their own cropped version of the model.

    In the following pics, {click to see the detail} I have excerpted just the chest area of the G2M mesh, along with the chest area of cloth items from the Daz store. You can see that vendors make their own choices. Some meshes have the classic even quads with relatively straight vertical and horizontal edge flow in the center but circular edge flow at the armpits. Other quad meshes don't have straight horizontal and vertical edges, yet are actually very realistic products with edge flow more closely matching G2M with good conforming and bending properties. Yet other meshes look like a mess, but the model has the most realistic draping of all.

    I am not identifying the products and am just showing excerpts of the meshes for educational reasons. Please focus any discussion on the choices the artists face and keep any criticism constructive.  Please don't post any guesses as to the identity of the products, and keep in mind that they are all in the Daz store.

    uu 01 g2m mesh torso.JPG
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    uu 02 mesh of amos outfit.JPG
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    uu 03 mesh another store outfit.JPG
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    uu 04 mesh yet another.JPG
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    uu 05 mesh circles for nips.JPG
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • lxlx Posts: 2,976
    edited November 2015

    .Thanks, diomede~

    I haven't unwrapped it yet (putting it off) but I've done all the seams and material zones.

    The reason I have such straight lines instead of conforming is because I envisioned it as a sort of stiffer suit vest fabric (well not actually stuff, but you know what I mean, more straight perfectly fitting suit, rather than baggy or skin tight.) Also the tank top I randomly loaded in Studio also used straight lines (with horizontal wrinkles in the mesh.)

    Obviously I'm no expert since this is the first piece of clothing I've made, but personally speaking, anything other than image #2 would make me cry (OCD much?) "Make pretty squares" is the first thing I learned and the thing that makes me happiest when modelling. I'd be interested in some PAs opinions and reasons though.

     

    btw if anyone's trying to get used to Blender, I highly recommend going into options then input and setting it to select with left. Or not depending on what you like but that helped with a lot of the alienness for me.

    Post edited by lx on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,707

    Well, the post about the advantages and disadvantages of having a mesh with straight horizontal/vertical edge flow compared to trying to match the underlying figure's mesh appears to have been a non-starter.  Lord knows I am no expert.  As a user who likes to apply the polygon editor to create custom material zones and otherwise adapt content for other uses, I generally like it when content has straight horizontal and vertical lines of edges.  However, I'd be curious to hear from others, given that folds/wrinkles and bending are sometimes better accommodated with a different mesh.   

  • lxlx Posts: 2,976
    diomede said:

    As a user who likes to apply the polygon editor to create custom material zones and otherwise adapt content for other uses

    Everyone seems to have disappeared in general.

    Am I reading this right in that you can set material zones and do other things within Studio? I have no idea how to do any of that, but it is frustrating when items you buy have really poorly defined zones that make using different textures hard, so it'd be great if there was a way to adjust them.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,358
    edited November 2015

    Yes, you can set or change mat zones in Studio through the Polygon Group Editor.  You can't change the UV.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • lxlx Posts: 2,976

    So many mysterious tools the help menu tells you nothing about o.o I honestly still have no idea what half of Studio does.

  • DarkSpartanDarkSpartan Posts: 1,092
    lx said:
    diomede said:

    As a user who likes to apply the polygon editor to create custom material zones and otherwise adapt content for other uses

    Everyone seems to have disappeared in general.

    Am I reading this right in that you can set material zones and do other things within Studio? I have no idea how to do any of that, but it is frustrating when items you buy have really poorly defined zones that make using different textures hard, so it'd be great if there was a way to adjust them.

    I've been watching, and considering something... Ambitious. Not a clothing item, but a morph for G3F, in the spirit of Vittorio.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,707

    That would be great.  I hope you share some of your progress.  I have never tried to customize the G3F, or customize content for the G3F, so I'd be interested to follow along.  Eventually, in Daz soon, they will release the G3M, so to the extent there are morph issues for G3F, those lessons would also be good for people who want more content for males to know (thank you again to SickleYield for those great posts at the beginning which detail some of the new rotation axist issues, for example).

     

    lx said:
    diomede said:

     

    I've been watching, and considering something... Ambitious. Not a clothing item, but a morph for G3F, in the spirit of Vittorio.

     

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,707
    edited November 2015

    OK, it is going to take me a while to get used to some new tools, etc., but I don't want to hold anyone back.  Here is a mesh for some boots that I will use to illustrate what tasks will need to be done in the morph department.  I will return to uvmapping when I put together a better boot mesh later. 

    First, you can see the mesh for a draft of some boots in the Hexagon bridge.  Just a couple of notes.  See the sole that I attached.  I created it by selecting the bottom duplicating adding thickness and using the bridge tool.  You could use an extrusion or any number of other ways.  I did it that way because I felt more confident selecting the resulting edge loops of the sole. I also added thickness to the boot itself, then deleted the interior of the foot (selected the outside and the used the plus tool to slide down the interior, inverted selection, and then deleted).  I assigned material zones for the sole, the boot exterior, and the boot interior.  Having a separate material zone for the interior is convenient because if there are problems you can apply transparency to hide the interior.

    I then brought the boots back to Daz Studio.  You can see that they fit the base shape fine.  I also applied different surface colors to the MAT zones, brown for the boots, blue for the sole, white for the interior.

    I then used the transfer utility (source G2M, target boot obj) to convert the boots to a conforming figure.  I saved the resulting boots as a support asset. 

     

    Making sure that the boots are "fit to" the genesis 2 male, I did some bending and rotating of the foot in the default shape.  The boots perform reasonably well, I think.

     

    However, I then applied the Superfreak morph set.  You can see awful poke through and the boots lose their generic shape and take on the bulges of the superfreak. 

     

    Part of the poke through can be addressed by applying a smoothing modifier to the boots figure.  However, then the interior of the boots shows through (white portion on top).  If the only problem was the interior, that could be solved by making the MAT zone for the interior transparent.

     

     

    OK, so now the hard work will begin.  First, a good uvmap must be constructed that yields an even pattern if a checkered texture map is applied.  Then, any additional bones, but I don't think one is needed in this case but I'd be interested if the experts think a thigh bone would be helpful.  In addition, each joint rotation needs to be checked and adjusted for fixing.  Also, any utility morphs (for example unzipping a zipper, or changing a collar).  And then a decision has to be made about which common character and shaping morphs should get custom support.  For example, the artist can create a morph to replace the default projection for Michael 6 or Freak or whatever.

     

    So, those of you who are ready can use the transfer utility and start testing joint bending and shaping morphs. 

    dd 01 boots in hexagon.JPG
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    dd 02 boots in studio with mat zones.JPG
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    dd 3 transfer utility.JPG
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    dd 05 bend boot one direction.JPG
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    dd 06 bend again.JPG
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    dd 07 superfreak morph poke through.JPG
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    dd 08 applysmoothing modifoier poke through fixed but now interior shows.JPG
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,358

    Super Freak is generally going to poke through on generated morphs, yes.  If you want to support that one you will usually need to do it with a custom.

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 7,045
    edited November 2015

    When doing boots and shoes, remember to shape them over the feet and not mimic the feet to closely (for instance, most shoes have a little room, depending on the style, in the toe box) or they will look like leather/rubber socks.  The sole is generally larger, by a little or a lot on shoes/boots (athletic shoes are a completely different animal).  Also, to make the material of the shoe/boot not look like it was poured on to the leg/ankle/foot, there will be compression wrinkles and wear cracks on the surface.  Just a few things to keep in mind.

    Post edited by Cris Palomino on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,707

    Great tips, Chris, thank you.  My boots need work. 

     

    While I sort that out, people playing at home should try to create MAT zones, do a priliminary uvmap, and apply the transfer utility.  Save the result as a support asset.  

     

    Then start some preliminary testing.  Open a new scene.  Load your base figure (in my case genesis 2 male),  Load your clothes and "fit to" your base figure.  One by one, rotate all of the joints of the base figure covered by or near your cloth item.  Note how the mesh of your new figure deforms.  Is there ever any poke through?  Are you satisfied with the bending or any stretching?  Are any buckles, buttons, or similar items behaving realistically?  Or, is the underlying cloth mesh separating from, or partially covering, any surface decorative items (including buttons)?  

     

    After testing the joint rotations, try applying some common full body morphs.  For G2M, it would make sense for me to test applying the Michael 6 character, for example.  Other common morphs to test mght be thin, bodybuilder, etc.  Now, in addition to testing rotations, you might want to consider how the clothing item looks when a morph is applied to the base figure.  For example, if your item fits loosely, then a morph for well defined stomach muscles would not really affect the lower part of a shirt.  Would a smoothing modifier be enough to address that?  Or, should there be a custom replacement for the character/FBM morph? 

     

    Watch for straps, buttons, and similar items. During the tests, they may bend unnaturally when joints are rotated, or they may deform unnaturally when a character morph is applied.  There are a number of ways to address such problems, but it does depend on what is causing it.   While adjusting a weightmap to exclude a button might help solve a problem caused by joint rotation, it would not solve a problem caused by a full body morph. 

     

     

  • lxlx Posts: 2,976
    edited November 2015

    This one's a bit rushed and lame but progress 3~

    There are clearly parts that stretch with morphs, but since I haven't read all the guides to try and make the mind numbing parts stick into my head I currently have no idea what to do with it now. 

     

    Part 1
    Part 2
    Part 3

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    Post edited by lx on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,707

    Ix, I think you are nearly done.  That looks pretty good to me.  Happy to have the PAs chime in, but a main concern that I am operating under is to make sure that the model is finalized before making any morphs because the number and order of verteces can't be changed in a morph.  I see that you included some body morphs in your screngrabs. 

    So I would just encourage you to check the behavior of the buttons.  Do the buttons pull away from, or sink into, the vest fabric if you bnd or moprph the base figure?  If so, you may have to make some adjustments, and one possible kind of adjustment might be changing the mesh density under the buttons.  In that case, you wouldn't want to make any morphs until you addressed the mesh density.  If not, and you are reasonably confident that you won't need to change the mesh any further, then you can start working through all of the rotations for each affeced joint (abdomen,...) and checking for any abnormalities.  Check for each rotation direction.  The transfer utility should have done a reasonably good starting job, and you don't have any problem areas like the shoulder/armpits in your vest, but if any problems arise you will want to either adjust the weights or make a make a morph.

    Here are someyoutube tutorials.

    weightmap brush https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjgIC2vhRII

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k52wwyv234U

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIIM1oAan7o

    and then the joint bending tools

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9OqFK5m7w

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJIa55eSDZY

     

    rigging modification https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cV3VaC7eIs

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,358

    With buttons and FBM distortion there are basically three things you can try.

    1.  Rigidity mapping.  This bears repeating because people keep using the wrong definition on the forums here: rigidity controls how much the mesh is affected by a generated FBM (it is overriden by customs).

    2.  Custom FBMs for each morph that distorts the buttons.  Nobody wants to do this because late in a figure's cycle this can be dozens of morphs.

    3.  Remove the buttons from the base mesh (you would have to rerig, and I'm sorry about that) and set them up as rigid follow nodes.  To do this you select the polys on the vest where the button will go, go to Polygon Group Editor, right-click in the main window, and find it from the Assign options ("Create Rigid Follow Node").  It will create a node in the Scene Tab, which you can drag onto the appropriate bone (one of the chests or abdomens, presumably) and then import your button and drag it onto the node.  You have to save out the button geometry as a prop and then delete the library entry but leave the data files for this to work in a product, but you can use the same geometry for all the buttons and just translate it, saving polys.

     

    A rigid follow node will translate away from the mesh with morphs.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,129

    Ah, so it IS possible to do that with buttons. But hard.

    Sad so few people seem to do it.

     

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,426

    Haven't disappeared just haven't had much time to do anything.  Still following along though

     

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,948

    Fantastic job LX and Diomede! 

    Thanks for the tutorials Sickle and Rawn...

  • Just popping in to say that I'm still following this thread.  Love all of the tutorials that have been put up.  I've been bogged down with a render, but I'm starting the first part of my Great Kilt.  I'm working on the shirt right now.  I'll post a pic when done.  Right now I'm working on it in Hexagon, but seriously thinking of giving Blender a try so the next part of the outfit might be done there.  I love what everyone is doing so far.  It is nice to see this thread just taking off.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,477

    That rigidity info is priceless Sickle.  Thanks! 

  • lxlx Posts: 2,976
    edited November 2015

    Thanks for the tutorials - I've been watching them and honestly I'm still completely lost. I autofit the vest and got weight panting panting onto the vest, but nothing seems to happen when I adjust morphs or posing at all. I'm pretty sure I just don't understand it at all, and rigging seems to be one of those things that really doesn't come naturally to me. It just feels like a million concepts already in their advanced state at once. 

    Post edited by lx on
  • This thread is amazing! I'll have to take a better glance at it over the weekend, because I've had this itch to make male-centric clothing (albeit based more on my personal tastes and for my own personal reference. Because for all my internal griping, at my core I'm a "if you want something done, do it yourself"-type, haha), but I haven't had a clue where to possibly begin and what programs to use. Some of this should come in handy!

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,426

    there are currently two modelling tutorials in the fast grab section for $5.99 each. One takes you through modelling a shirt and one teaches you how to make a bikini from scratch both for Genesis and seems to be from start to finish including importing, exporting, uv mesh and morphs as well.

  • DarkSpartanDarkSpartan Posts: 1,092

    Well, we can apply them to G3M now >:)devil

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