formerly male content creation thread

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  • lxlx Posts: 2,979

    Question: earlier it was mentioned that Zbrush is usually responsible for the super smooth pretty meshes and that Blender is still really bad at them. Is there a specific name for a tool that evens out the mesh? And does Carrera have those capabilities?

  • j cadej cade Posts: 1,595
    lx said:

    Question: earlier it was mentioned that Zbrush is usually responsible for the super smooth pretty meshes and that Blender is still really bad at them. Is there a specific name for a tool that evens out the mesh? And does Carrera have those capabilities?

    I think you misunderstood what was said a bit. What was said was that zbrush creates much better meshes via automatic retopologizing than blender, but that is only something used when using a mesh that was sculpted or something coming in from a program like marvelous designer

    Provided you're building the mesh up yourself, blender can absolutely create smooth meshes

    In case it was retopologizing you were talking about, nothing does it like zbrush. It's one of those things that zbrush just does so much better so everyone uses and loves zbrush despite its bizzare ui

  • lxlx Posts: 2,979
    j cade said:
    lx said:

    Question: earlier it was mentioned that Zbrush is usually responsible for the super smooth pretty meshes and that Blender is still really bad at them. Is there a specific name for a tool that evens out the mesh? And does Carrera have those capabilities?

     

    I think you misunderstood what was said a bit. What was said was that zbrush creates much better meshes via automatic retopologizing than blender, but that is only something used when using a mesh that was sculpted or something coming in from a program like marvelous designer

    Provided you're building the mesh up yourself, blender can absolutely create smooth meshes

    In case it was retopologizing you were talking about, nothing does it like zbrush. It's one of those things that zbrush just does so much better so everyone uses and loves zbrush despite its bizzare ui

    Ohh, I see what you mean. That was what I was talking about except I thought it was a tool used for cleaning up meshes in general. Thanks for clarifying.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,430
    daveleitz said:
    Sonja11 said:
    lx said:

    UV mapping bewildered me for quite awhile, until I finally realised that the unwrapped shapes in the map window are just dots and lines that you can rearrange anywhere you want to. I was so scared to touch them because I thought it'd break the model and the image or something.

    I saw that. Not sure how you can move the dots around and not change the outfit.  I'm still going what? How can you straighten a line that is curvy on the dress and not have it effect the dress?

     

    The tricky part of UV mapping is that if you decide to change your mesh in some way, you need to unwrap it again.  You may have to adjust the unwrap seams, too.  If you've already started making a texture that matches your old UV pattern, it may not work with the changed UV.  That's not a problem with repeating textures, but it can be with custom designs where the seams might become visible on your object.

    Once your mesh is "finished" and unwrapped, any 3d texture painting that you do on your object can fix the seems, but then your texture depends on that mesh staying exactly as it is (meaning you can't add or delete vertices).  You can do anything you like to the object mesh and its UV before texturing, but changes to the mesh and UV anytime after texturing starts will likely require redoing the textures over again for best results.  Painting a straight line on the object might make a curved line on the texture, because the UV layout needs to convert 2d space to 3d.

    In other words, make sure I am finished completely with the object before mapping it until I have more experience lol. 

  • j cadej cade Posts: 1,595
    One thing to note all the modelling programs do have tools to retopologize. It's just zbrush makes it stupidly easy and fast.

    We're actually approaching an interesting point in modelling, where a lot of the technical aspects are going away. Zbrush has really led the charge with the whole dynamic topology > automatic retopologizing and oh by the way you can texture this without uvs.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,979
    j cade said:
    One thing to note all the modelling programs do have tools to retopologize. It's just zbrush makes it stupidly easy and fast.

    We're actually approaching an interesting point in modelling, where a lot of the technical aspects are going away. Zbrush has really led the charge with the whole dynamic topology > automatic retopologizing and oh by the way you can texture this without uvs.

    Mostly I've just been doing whatever until I get the shape I want (or the main edge loops all on) and then just use a mix of ctrlR, manually moving vertices, smoothing and subd then sliding edges and removing doubles until I get the simplest shape I can that does the job and subdivides nicely. I'm sure there are many better ways, but that's about as far as I've gotten for organic shapes (mostly I've been having fun with furniture.)

    Zbrush looks and sounds really interesting, but that's a seriously steep entry cost for me (as a non-professional.) It's about 7 years of what I pay for the entire Adobe suite, or 3-4 weeks of shopping on Daz (now that's a painful realisation.)

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,430

    Just went and had a look at Zbrush.  I didn't realize that scuptris was made by Zbrush

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,430
    lx said:
    j cade said:
    One thing to note all the modelling programs do have tools to retopologize. It's just zbrush makes it stupidly easy and fast.

    We're actually approaching an interesting point in modelling, where a lot of the technical aspects are going away. Zbrush has really led the charge with the whole dynamic topology > automatic retopologizing and oh by the way you can texture this without uvs.

    Mostly I've just been doing whatever until I get the shape I want (or the main edge loops all on) and then just use a mix of ctrlR, manually moving vertices, smoothing and subd then sliding edges and removing doubles until I get the simplest shape I can that does the job and subdivides nicely. I'm sure there are many better ways, but that's about as far as I've gotten for organic shapes (mostly I've been having fun with furniture.)

    Zbrush looks and sounds really interesting, but that's a seriously steep entry cost for me (as a non-professional.) It's about 7 years of what I pay for the entire Adobe suite, or 3-4 weeks of shopping on Daz (now that's a painful realisation.)

    Ya I took one look at the price and walked away lol.  No way can I justify spending that amount on something that doesn't make money (yet lol)

     

  • 3dcoat also has good retopo tools.  You can sculpt using voxels or a high res mesh and then create a low res mesh any way you want from that.  It's also a much less expensive program than Zbrush.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,481

    I build all my meshes in ZBrush from scratch.  One of the tricks for getting a really straight UV is to build your mesh very boxy, UV it and then form it to the shape your building it for. Now if you turn around and ZRemesh it then your UV work will be gone because even if you use the SAME button to keep the same amount of verts the order will be different.  I often end up not liking the uv's generated from ZBrush, allot of the times, if map it using the polygroup option you end up with the maps all over the place.  I bought a little known program called Ultimate Unwrap3D UV Pro and it's my go too program for UV mapping.  The guy continues to support it and does listen to ideas and if he likes them he will update the program to include them (like my idea of exporting maps to JPG or PNG rather than just to PSD or BMP). 

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,358

    I do my UV mapping and materials assignment as a final step in Blender because yes, Zbrush eats UVs and mat groups.

  • mjc1016 said:

    There is a Great Kilt for M4...Poser dynamic...

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/55095/gallery/11/Poser/Great-Kilts-Dynamic-Props-for-M4

    I've always wanted to take a stab at actually rigging it, but never really made the time to do it.

    Can you take something like that for the Poser cloth room and rig it for DS?  Since I don't use Poser, I wasn't aware this might be possible.

    Oh, yeah: the Poser 5+ cloth room can use any ordinary mesh.  It's the DS4 "cloth room" that's finnicky about that.

    Crazy thing is, Mudbox (by AutoDesk, the King-Of-All-Things-CAD and self-annointed Design Industry Leader, also owner fo 3DS-Max and Maya) is barely over half the price per solo-user license that Z-Brush is.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,979

    I figured I should upload something to show that we can be sort of actually productive.

    I don't expect anyone to approve of or be impressed by (or even understand) the way I make things.

    I'm now dithering between adding more styling as actual modelling or just leaving it basic and getting to the what is rigging part so that then I can model something actually useful. I do want to at least add buttons so I can mess with the horror of rigid attachments.

    _progress1.jpg
    1360 x 1508 - 467K
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,744
    edited November 2015

    Ix.  Great stuff.  Thank you so much for joining in.  I love your captions.  And the fact that "decide what to make" is number 9 instead of number 1 made my morning, LOL.  You are doing a great job.  A vest is the perfect project. 

     

    I encourage anyone and everyone who wants to play along to continue to search for reference materials similar to the #9 in Ix's attachment.  You dont have to start modeling yet, in fact I am not starting my official model yet.  However, I do doodle with my modeler based on some of the reference material that I found.  All of these items were derived from my saved envelope mesh.

     

    Remember my CRAPPY GLOVES?  Well, here is an entire set of CRAPPY VINTAGE SPEEDWAY OUTFIT.  Here are some of the elements that I found in my background research. 

     

    CRAPPY SPEEDWAY OUTFIT  (called crappy because still just doodling - eg., no wrinkles or other details)

    - Pants front has a panel with two rows of buttons, and then a strap and buckle in back that can be adjusted to fit slim and fat people.

    - Pant legs will be close fitting, not the wide thighs like WWI pilots or horse riders.

    - Boots have no straps or buckles, and rise high on shin. 

    - Pants tuck inside boots.

    - Undershirt in tank top style.

    - My crappy gloves from before with no cuff, and the option with alpha map to remove thumb and fingers.

    - Coat with overlapping front, with two vertical rows of buttons. 

    - Coat also has high collar that can dangle a medallion.

    - Coat has seams at shoulders and seams for cuffs.

    - Racing cap can also be used to create a villainous mask.

    - May add an optional overcoat or cape for more potential for a villainous character.  Of course, villainy would depend on a second texture set.

    - Needs goggles!

     

    In some ways, this outfit has similarities to The Rocketeer and to WWI pilot uniforms.  Anyway, I encourage more people who want to play along to post some of their reference material and other background research.  I will probably keep doodling and experimenting with different ideas at least through the weekend.  For example, I think that either the pants or the coat need pockets.

     

    Personally, I am still inviting conceptual suggestions.  Constructive criticism definitely invited.  I will probably finalize my own conceptual idea this weekend.  Then I will start on the actual meshes of the models.

    t1a phantom front no coat.jpg
    640 x 480 - 11K
    t2 phantom no coat back.jpg
    640 x 480 - 9K
    t3 phantom with coat front.jpg
    640 x 480 - 10K
    t4 phantom coat and mask.jpg
    640 x 480 - 9K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • lxlx Posts: 2,979

    Awesome stuff, diomede. Now I feel super slow xD And thanks for taking the time to look at my beginnings. I've never really done clothing before, but regardless I tend to not plan out anything and just start moving vertices around until I get an idea for what I might be interested in. For reference images, I used my newfound love pinterest and searched "male vest" and found a whole range of photos which I won't use and lovely infographics explaining the tiny details of what makes suits work, which is what my reference image is from.

    p.s. In case it wasn't obvious, I have no idea what I'm doing, so any feedback on what I should be doing or adding is appreciated.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,744

    Ix, don't feel slow at all.  you are doing great.  As mentioned by several others above, it is best to start simple.  Even though I am doodling an entire outfit right now, when it comes time to start for real, I will follow the advice to pick just one item, a simple one, and go through the steps for that.  For example, if you do a vest, I could start with the undershirt.  I found some hilarious ads for underwear. 

    vintage mens underwear pattern 40s.jpg
    570 x 725 - 128K
  • diomede said:

    Ix, don't feel slow at all.  you are doing great.  As mentioned by several others above, it is best to start simple.  Even though I am doodling an entire outfit right now, when it comes time to start for real, I will follow the advice to pick just one item, a simple one, and go through the steps for that.  For example, if you do a vest, I could start with the undershirt.  I found some hilarious ads for underwear. 

    Wow!!! 35 cents for a pattern?!!! Now, I have to watch the sales and I'm lucky if I can get one for under $5.  Love the waistband on those undershorts!!!

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 10,744
    edited November 2015

    Question

    Which would be easier, a coat that opens on the side with a double row of buttons like my doodle above, or a coat that opens in the middle with straps with buckles instead of buttons?  I think straps would more easily accommodate both a racer and a villain.  If you look more closely at my Bob Burman inspirational print above, his top has a more simple version of the following.

    Suggestions?

    Also, it would help distinguish more from the Rocketeer.

     

    coat with straps.jpg
    300 x 300 - 10K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • lx said:

    I figured I should upload something to show that we can be sort of actually productive.

    I don't expect anyone to approve of or be impressed by (or even understand) the way I make things.

    I'm now dithering between adding more styling as actual modelling or just leaving it basic and getting to the what is rigging part so that then I can model something actually useful. I do want to at least add buttons so I can mess with the horror of rigid attachments.

    OMG! If you can get some nice open morph going on that, I'm first in line to get it.

  • lx said:

    I figured I should upload something to show that we can be sort of actually productive.

    I don't expect anyone to approve of or be impressed by (or even understand) the way I make things.

    I'm now dithering between adding more styling as actual modelling or just leaving it basic and getting to the what is rigging part so that then I can model something actually useful. I do want to at least add buttons so I can mess with the horror of rigid attachments.

    OMG! If you can get some nice open morph going on that, I'm first in line to get it.

    Ditto!!! I don't know about which would be easier, though.  I would think each has it's own challenges especially if you plan on doing any morphs to ope the jacket.  I really like the buckle one myself.

  • Liked your Farmerboy render, Knittingmommy. Kind of reminded me of Lady Chatterley's Lover.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,430
    lx said:

    I figured I should upload something to show that we can be sort of actually productive.

    I don't expect anyone to approve of or be impressed by (or even understand) the way I make things.

    I'm now dithering between adding more styling as actual modelling or just leaving it basic and getting to the what is rigging part so that then I can model something actually useful. I do want to at least add buttons so I can mess with the horror of rigid attachments.

    Looks great!  I am working my way through some vidoes and hope to try something soon

     

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,430
    diomede said:

    Ix.  Great stuff.  Thank you so much for joining in.  I love your captions.  And the fact that "decide what to make" is number 9 instead of number 1 made my morning, LOL.  You are doing a great job.  A vest is the perfect project. 

     

    I encourage anyone and everyone who wants to play along to continue to search for reference materials similar to the #9 in Ix's attachment.  You dont have to start modeling yet, in fact I am not starting my official model yet.  However, I do doodle with my modeler based on some of the reference material that I found.  All of these items were derived from my saved envelope mesh.

     

    Remember my CRAPPY GLOVES?  Well, here is an entire set of CRAPPY VINTAGE SPEEDWAY OUTFIT.  Here are some of the elements that I found in my background research. 

     

    CRAPPY SPEEDWAY OUTFIT  (called crappy because still just doodling - eg., no wrinkles or other details)

    - Pants front has a panel with two rows of buttons, and then a strap and buckle in back that can be adjusted to fit slim and fat people.

    - Pant legs will be close fitting, not the wide thighs like WWI pilots or horse riders.

    - Boots have no straps or buckles, and rise high on shin. 

    - Pants tuck inside boots.

    - Undershirt in tank top style.

    - My crappy gloves from before with no cuff, and the option with alpha map to remove thumb and fingers.

    - Coat with overlapping front, with two vertical rows of buttons. 

    - Coat also has high collar that can dangle a medallion.

    - Coat has seams at shoulders and seams for cuffs.

    - Racing cap can also be used to create a villainous mask.

    - May add an optional overcoate or cape for more potential for a villainous character.  Of course, villainy would depend on a second texture set.

    - Needs goggles!

     

    In some ways, this outfit has similarities to The Rocketeer and to WWI pilot uniforms.  Anyway, I encourage more people who want to play along to post some of their reference material and other background research.  I will probably keep doodling and experimenting with different ideas at least through the weekend.  For example, I think that either the pants or the coat need pockets.

     

    Personally, I am still inviting conceptual suggestions.  Constructive criticism definitely invited.  I will probably finalize my own conceptual idea this weekend.  Then I will start on the actual meshes of the models.

    This is doodling?  Good grief lol!  Well I am going to continue to follow along and work on learning this anyway

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,134

    The pinnacle of good clothing design, for me, is the Ultra Bodysuit ( http://www.daz3d.com/ultra-bodysuit-for-genesis-2-female-s )

     

    It is ASTONISHINGLY well-done, with a host of morphs to turn it into all sorts of different things. Moreover, the carefully layed out and labeled material zones make it INCREDIBLY easy to design all sorts of styles without ever having to touch texture maps. (Although you can, of course, fancy things up with different texture maps)

     

    Granted, I'm not sure everyone wants to spend 1-3 years (or however long that thing took) to design clothing, but... wow. That's the high bar.

     

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,481

    As they say, it's easy to model clothing but getting it rigged and weight mapped properly, that's the trick that's quite off putting to allot of us.  I keep asking DAZ to make more and more improvements to the creation tools but they are more into shiny NEW things and now this "Connect" stuff....... perhaps some day they will revisit the creation tools with new imroved ways to get the jobs done quickly and mo better!  lol

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,430
    Lotharen said:

    I have Blender and its okay, me and UV mapping didn't get along for some reason. User error I'm sure.

    I have Silo 2, it has a nice interface and is easy to learn for the most part. Take a look at it if your need something Hexagon like with a bit more power.

    Silo 2: http://www.nevercenter.com/silo/

    This is much more reasonable

     

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,430

    The pinnacle of good clothing design, for me, is the Ultra Bodysuit ( http://www.daz3d.com/ultra-bodysuit-for-genesis-2-female-s )

     

    It is ASTONISHINGLY well-done, with a host of morphs to turn it into all sorts of different things. Moreover, the carefully layed out and labeled material zones make it INCREDIBLY easy to design all sorts of styles without ever having to touch texture maps. (Although you can, of course, fancy things up with different texture maps)

     

    Granted, I'm not sure everyone wants to spend 1-3 years (or however long that thing took) to design clothing, but... wow. That's the high bar.

     

    this one is actually high on my wishlist

  • j cadej cade Posts: 1,595
    RAMWolff said:

    As they say, it's easy to model clothing but getting it rigged and weight mapped properly, that's the trick that's quite off putting to allot of us.  I keep asking DAZ to make more and more improvements to the creation tools but they are more into shiny NEW things and now this "Connect" stuff....... perhaps some day they will revisit the creation tools with new imroved ways to get the jobs done quickly and mo better!  lol

    What is you're issue with rigging and weightmapping in daz? I honestly find it kind of criminally easy, especially in comparison to modelling. Men's stuff, which tends to be tighter and not have skirts in general, is even easier.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,481

    Well I'm not technically savvy so this is my sore spot.  I'm not making stuff for Genesis but for Hivewire and since their figures work in both DS and Poser I can't take shortcuts or depend on smoothing to making things appear to work fine.  I actually don't add a smoothing modifier until the very end and that's only for the DS users benefit so getting weight mapping, JCM's and rigging working VERY well out of the box can be a bit time consuming to say the least.   Stuff like this, for those that have been at it a lot longer than I have, is second nature but for my old brain it's like walking a 100 lbs bowling ball uphill! 

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,358
    j cade said:
    RAMWolff said:

    As they say, it's easy to model clothing but getting it rigged and weight mapped properly, that's the trick that's quite off putting to allot of us.  I keep asking DAZ to make more and more improvements to the creation tools but they are more into shiny NEW things and now this "Connect" stuff....... perhaps some day they will revisit the creation tools with new imroved ways to get the jobs done quickly and mo better!  lol

    What is you're issue with rigging and weightmapping in daz? I honestly find it kind of criminally easy, especially in comparison to modelling. Men's stuff, which tends to be tighter and not have skirts in general, is even easier.

     

    Hey, great!  Finally, someone for whom rigging G3 clothes is easy.  How's the multilayered floor-length robe with dangling sleeves and matching high-heeled boots coming?  Is there a matching bi-layered loincloth?

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