It's Not Raining Men

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  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 16,965

    I admit when I go to new releases and its all v7 content and her bronzed sisters, I sigh. My wallet however leaps in joy!

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    my wallet hinges getting rusty  lol

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 16,965

    More money for Starbucks and those other stores...

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,257
    Hera said:

    I'm sick of hearing that male stuff won't sell. How can it sell when it's not being made?
    1. the G2M Bot Armor didnt' sell a single item  - well that was not because nobody wanted it but because it was never put out there for us to buy (according to legend it does exist. Just like Prince's black album) Same thing for the G2M Dragontech Ninja or the G2M Retro Scifi Bodysuite or G2M no suite, things I've been waiting for for ages for instance.

    2. So many of us are looking high an low for good SciFi outfits and military outfits and steampunk outfits for G2M but we are not seeing them. Anywhere. Or era specific, like rennaisance or victorian or roman (not military) or ancient egypt. I understand that in the 21th century the male outfit base is small and dull but look at the history. Back in the medieval and rennaisance times the male clothes were outshining the females. And so on.

    And what more - it does get worse! For every year, for every figure there are getting less and less male clothes in the stores. M4 used to have a reasonable selection and variation including quite a bit in the SciFi and the Gothic area. For Genesis - well as SciFi went, you could adapt most of the female outfits and fit them on the men (save for perhaps Freak). Like Jade Assasin http://www.daz3d.com/jade-assassin. But poor G2M was hardly getting anything in the Scifi genre and there was absolutely nothing gothic or steampunk coming his way. And even if it was possible to tweak some of the female things upon him, like the Retro Scifi Bodysuite, it didn't look really there. :-(

     

     

    Out of curiosity, do you own all male-focussed items - every single one?

  • DarkSpartanDarkSpartan Posts: 1,095
    edited November 2015

    Hrmmm... Time to go rummaging through my prop collection. There might be something in there to be tossed into the pool...

    Moving hourse today, but I can start polishing up a propkit later tonight to include in a hypothetical Men's Render challenge, whether as a freebie to work into the theme or as a prize.

    Post edited by DarkSpartan on
  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    the gianni pro bundle was the awesome.

    have used SY's masculinizer to man-up some of the empty syndrome ;)

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,257

    I suppose I sympathise, because I was thinking that there can't be too many female characters; I mean, I'm not going to like them all, so that allows me to pick and chose. Mostly chosing atm.

    I've had a thought on the derth, from what others say, of male content.

    Kickstarter has been suggested. Why not put together a list of characters, and requirements, and once enough folks are interested, see if any PA is interested in setting up a kickstarter for people to pledge.

    That way they know how many sales they have before they start the majority of the work.

    The thread, presuming it was here, although might be better elsewhere then you could keep posts restricted to the criteria you decide.

    Yes it's work, but I keep hearing PAs say how making male items makes them (as a rule) less cash. Those interested take some of the work and/or risk away form the PA.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 9,130
     Kickstarter doesn't have to be completely 'sight unseen.' If you go to Kickstarter and look at projects that aren't fully funded, most of them have concept art, videos, and similar.

    That means the PA has to start working on the project before knowing if it will be funded though, and that work will be wasted if it isn't... So the PA needs to be willing to risk that. I supose it's a lower risk than "create the product and see if it sells" but still a risk.

    I admit when I go to new releases and its all v7 content and her bronzed sisters, I sigh. My wallet however leaps in joy!

    IMO right now there's even less chances than before to see male content released: most people providing content for males are probably waiting for G3M.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,489
    edited November 2015
    I think, and PAs can correct me if I'm wrong, that the outlay in concept art, and some preliminary design ideas, is significantly less of a time commitment. A finished product requires design, modeling, rigging, textures, morphs, etc. The commitment to floating a kickstarter, particularly for an idea a PA might be interested in but unsure is lucrative, might be a tolerable cost.
    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    i picked this up in the pa sale  http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-2-cross-figure-resource-kit  

    don't know why cuz really, what does it do that autofit doesnt?

    i guess was hoping would make stuff easier to use in rara, in theory. 

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    MistyMist said:

    i picked this up in the pa sale  http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-2-cross-figure-resource-kit  

    don't know why cuz really, what does it do that autofit doesnt?

    i guess was hoping would make stuff easier to use in rara, in theory. 

    It expalins quite succinctly what it does on the store page.

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675
    Chohole said:
    MistyMist said:

    i picked this up in the pa sale  http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-2-cross-figure-resource-kit  

    don't know why cuz really, what does it do that autofit doesnt?

    i guess was hoping would make stuff easier to use in rara, in theory. 

    It expalins quite succinctly what it does on the store page.

     

    and how does it differ from autofit again?

  • HeraHera Posts: 1,833
    nicstt said:
    Hera said:

    I'm sick of hearing that male stuff won't sell. How can it sell when it's not being made?
    1. the G2M Bot Armor didnt' sell a single item  - well that was not because nobody wanted it but because it was never put out there for us to buy (according to legend it does exist. Just like Prince's black album) Same thing for the G2M Dragontech Ninja or the G2M Retro Scifi Bodysuite or G2M no suite, things I've been waiting for for ages for instance.

    2. So many of us are looking high an low for good SciFi outfits and military outfits and steampunk outfits for G2M but we are not seeing them. Anywhere. Or era specific, like rennaisance or victorian or roman (not military) or ancient egypt. I understand that in the 21th century the male outfit base is small and dull but look at the history. Back in the medieval and rennaisance times the male clothes were outshining the females. And so on.

    And what more - it does get worse! For every year, for every figure there are getting less and less male clothes in the stores. M4 used to have a reasonable selection and variation including quite a bit in the SciFi and the Gothic area. For Genesis - well as SciFi went, you could adapt most of the female outfits and fit them on the men (save for perhaps Freak). Like Jade Assasin http://www.daz3d.com/jade-assassin. But poor G2M was hardly getting anything in the Scifi genre and there was absolutely nothing gothic or steampunk coming his way. And even if it was possible to tweak some of the female things upon him, like the Retro Scifi Bodysuite, it didn't look really there. :-(

     

     

    Out of curiosity, do you own all male-focussed items - every single one?

    All those listed I do have, like the coalition armor and an outfit called coalition katana which would also be awesome for G2M and G3M. http://www.daz3d.com/coalition-katana

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604

    Because it is designed for developers  

    The Genesis 2 Cross-Figure Resource Kit provides the tools and information that enable developers to create conforming content that allows being 'Fit to' more than a single supporting figure possible in DAZ Studio

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675
    Chohole said:

    Because it is designed for developers  

    The Genesis 2 Cross-Figure Resource Kit provides the tools and information that enable developers to create conforming content that allows being 'Fit to' more than a single supporting figure possible in DAZ Studio


    can like fit genesis armor to dragon 3?

    dont need cross figure to fit like g2f clothes fit g2m
    dont need cross figure to fit like V6 clothes to Belle 6

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 9,130
    MistyMist said:
    can like fit genesis armor to dragon 3?

    No, it's made to design clothes that fit both G2M and G2F.

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675
    edited November 2015

      

    Leana said:
    MistyMist said:
    can like fit genesis armor to dragon 3?

    No, it's made to design clothes that fit both G2M and G2F.


    if this utility is painless, why don't they make more outfits ready with a g2m fit? 

    like the fantasy ranger outfit for examps

     

    mebbe i bought a utility i'm not remembering.  i fit V4 clothes to g2m too, is in the dropdown list.

    i remember buying the g2m to genesis but don't remember buying genesis to g2m

    Post edited by Mistara on
  • LeanaLeana Posts: 9,130

    Genesis clone was included by default with G2M and G2F.

     

    this utility makes creating cross-figure outfits easier, that doesn't means there's no work involved anymore...

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,681
    up4 said:

    Go see Blur's latest demo reel. How many females ? Four. How many males ? Hundreds. These guys make the best game cinematics in the industry. They made the opening sequence for Fincher's Girl with the Dragon Tatoo. Tim Miller, the studio co-founder is directing, as his first feature, Deadpool, the queerest superhero ever.

    The "male don't sell" argument sounds a lot like anachronic straight-guy corporate culture. It sounds like successful male content is embarrassing. At any rate, even if you think it is the current state of this market (which I doubt), it is obviously not its future. There will be (there already are) hyperealistic males, modeled, rigged and skinned available for sale. They are just not GenesisXM-based. And they are not available on the DAZ shop. I hope DAZ revisits its pre-cosplay, pre-brony, pre-Deadpool, pre-Skyfall gender bias. For its own sake. Maybe having some of the most appreciated male content PAs involved in the artistic direction for the Michael 7 product launch (or even leading it) could avoid death by drowning in a tsunami of cheap underage lolita swimwear on that day.

    That demo reel blew my mind.  I kept thinking "ALL OF THIS IS CG?"  Of course it was..... it's gotten that good and yea, there were all mostly males in this stuff, goes to show you that the male figure is not underwhelming but it's the attitude in this particular cottage industry (Poser/DS) that makes it so. 

    Part of the reason I don't buy allot of male content, for the most part, is that I can make my own these days but also I see allot out there that looks rushed or attention to detail varies from creator to creator... some like Luthbel, Stonemason and yea Uzilite are worthy of my hard earned bucks because attention to detail is right there.  Mec4D is another, whereever she's gone this time.  Pays extraordinary attention to detail, over the top!   Folks should do what they are comfortable doing and do it well, bottom line.  If your not interested then don't force yourself to do the work as it just might reflect in the end product. 

  • diomede said:

    Why don't some of us go through the steps together?  As stated above by FSMCDesigns, making the mesh is the easy part.  Let us start with that.  As I said earlier  , pick some item such as a shirt or a pair of pants or whatever and why don't we have some period of time during which those who are interested generate a mesh in any program and share screenshots of our efforts?  At this stage, people can offer constructive criticism, such as it is typical when starting to have a fitted mesh with no drape to it.  We can then share some improvements for some period of time.  Then we can go through subsequent steps together such as rigidity mapping buttons, weightmapping, etc. 

    Actually that sounds like fun...I too don't have much time to do other things between day job, family and writing but I would be willing to somehow fit it in to my day/week. It's on my my long term to do list anyhow. I'd just reprioritize the things I'm already doing. I'm game if you are.

    Trish

  • HeraHera Posts: 1,833

    Yes, that Demo Real proves  that it can be done. Even though the Starwars stuff is probably licensed to hell and back, it proves that the imagination is out there. Male clothes doesn't have to be ill-fitting pants or tees or boring barbarian stuff. Some of those armours were really awesome, and would be a killer upon M2G or M3G. Why not cancelling 64 bikinis and offer something like that instead?

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,681

    The thing is that quite a few of those outfits that are posted can already be done with a texture change alone. That is the issue with quite a few of the suggestions I see over the years. I am all for more male stuff but a lot of it is already out there.

    Then why are there not more texture artists getting more support packs out there to generate more sales?  Seems to me there are a million and one little black dresses out there, most all look the same untextured and yet there they are, hitting the stores with good sales with very little support afterwards.  So there are a million and one surf board shorts and T's out there textured just a little differently... same thing but different sales results.  frown

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 16,965

    There are vendors like OOT who regularly retexture content sold here. But, they aren't sold here- they are sold at Rendo.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,681

    True.  There are others besides him so not sure why they are few and far between, esp if it will cause more sales for the parent product. 

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    RAMWolff said:

    The thing is that quite a few of those outfits that are posted can already be done with a texture change alone. That is the issue with quite a few of the suggestions I see over the years. I am all for more male stuff but a lot of it is already out there.

    Then why are there not more texture artists getting more support packs out there to generate more sales?  Seems to me there are a million and one little black dresses out there, most all look the same untextured and yet there they are, hitting the stores with good sales with very little support afterwards.  So there are a million and one surf board shorts and T's out there textured just a little differently... same thing but different sales results.  frown

    Because pure texture packs don't sell well, by themselves...if they are bundled, then maybe.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,553
    edited November 2015

    @Stormlyght

    Great - I was thinking of starting a separate thread for people to follow and give advice and mutual encouragement.  It would be even better to have a few creator-buddies, sort of like exercise buddies, to help persevere.  So, one question is whether it is better to do that in the Commons or the Art Studio forum.  Since part of the goal is to encourage and recruit more people to try their hand at content creation (in this case for males), maybe it is better to do it in the Commons?  With perseverence, and mutual encouragement, maybe the community has several more male clothing items at the end of our efforts.  And personally, I would appreciate constructive criticism and suggestions even from those who don't have the time or inclination to try to create custom clothing themselves.  I know I will have more skills at the end of the journey no matter how it turns out.

     

    Quick note on me since I don't spend much time in the Commons.

    In my own tastes, I am not big on photo-realism so the content that I have created for my own use would not be anywhere near store quality.  However, I do use genesis and genesis 2 males and make what I need if I can't adapt something that already exists.  Here are some examples: a medieval outfit for the Pied Piper of Hamlin, a teenage mutant ninja turtles costume, and the gang from space ghost.  See below.  Because I had not planned to distribute them, the meshes are not necessarly clean, the uvmaps are inefficient, they don't have many morphs, etc. 

     

    Can we get a few more mutual support buddies to join in?  And how should we proceed?  I've heard a couple calls for a sci-fi outfit, historical uniforms, and seen pics of runway models.  Maybe something simple like clothing suitable for golf?  warning, commercial - http://www.onlygolfapparel.com/ )

    How about we give some time to recruit a few others, then set the first two initial self-deadlines - 1st each person could decide on a project and 2nd gather reference material and other resources.  After that, then we can move to the third step and set a deadline to create each initial mesh - and then prepare for the wave of suggestions and constructive criticism!  Another deadline to adjust the mesh for the suggestions and provide the initial uvmaps.  Then the uvmap suggestions and criticisms!  Then...  See where I am going with this?  No hurry, by the way.  I know I am not quitting my day job.

     

    Note - some people are specialists so how can we be as inclusive as possible?  I mean that some people are more at home modeling while others like to take texture templates into Gimp or Photoshop and create great shaders.

     

    Totally open to other suggestions if this is either too ambitious or not ambitious enough.

     

     

    pied piper wipppp.jpg
    900 x 1165 - 150K
    space ghost.jpg
    1140 x 855 - 81K
    tmnt.jpg
    940 x 705 - 54K
    j pied piper.jpg
    1200 x 1553 - 271K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • MistyMist said:

      

    Leana said:
    MistyMist said:
    can like fit genesis armor to dragon 3?

    No, it's made to design clothes that fit both G2M and G2F.


    if this utility is painless, why don't they make more outfits ready with a g2m fit? 

    like the fantasy ranger outfit for examps

     

    mebbe i bought a utility i'm not remembering.  i fit V4 clothes to g2m too, is in the dropdown list.

    i remember buying the g2m to genesis but don't remember buying genesis to g2m

    The utility geenrates a shape for the opposite sex figure and adds ERC links to adjust the joint centres so that it will conform. It doesn't, and cant, do anything to the weight maps. It works well for things fitting to the head or limbs, less well for things fitting to the torso (where the weight maps are most different). A few items in the store do use it, or a manual equivalent.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,553
    edited November 2015

    And I can put a low-poly envelope mesh for the genesis 2 male in obj format on shareCG if it could encourage a few more people to join in.

    g2m starter envelope.JPG
    1163 x 878 - 115K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • Joe Quick has a package that has starter suits for Gen4 Genesis and another for G2 M & F for free on sharecg. He includes other figures as well.

    On a side note, the past couple years I have gone out of my way to do images with a central male figure, instead of the female, just to get the guys into the contests I enter.  The most recent was at Fantasy Attic Halloween Contest theme Pinups and did a male monster relaxing in his den.  I make a point of including males for images, whether just to show off on a thread or in a contest.  Lack of clothes is an issue, but I love morphs and adjustments and use them to their full extent to get things to fit properly.  I also love dynamics which make fitting so much easier in Daz.

  • BurstAngelBurstAngel Posts: 752
    edited November 2015

    I need Hiro 6! Aiko 5 & 6 are sitting in my runtime unused, While I have to make do using H4 A4 morphs for Genesis 1 & 2. You guys have no idea how unhappy I am about that. Aiko 5 & 6 are so pretty! I want to use them, but whats the point if I don't have the ulitmate female accessory? A man? I like matching pairs, in figures and in clothes. I don't mind if a female has 5 outfits as long as there is one male outfit that compliments them.

    The problem with clothing that I've notice is that most of the female clothing is pretty mediocre in design and quality, but as long as it's different and pretty with alot of holes and cutouts, most will buy. But with male clothing, most will already have the basics for a modern male wardrobe and don't really need anymore, as long as they use shaders. But male clothing is harder to make. I'm more picky about male clothing than female, sometimes out of desperation, I will buy a low quality male outfit if I can't find anything else. But male clothing requires alot more thought, detail and a sense of strength and masculinity. Give me Daniel Craig in a sharp suit and I drool, Show me a male model in a jockstrap and I'm bored.

    BTW, don't use male fashion industry as a starting point for more variety, today's male fashion are flatout aweful. Capri's for guys? yuck! I'm so sick of skinny jeans on men I stop buying if I see its another useless skinny jean. Best place to start would be vintage. Victorian and the first half of the 20th century.

    The only win-win situation would be DAZ investing in more male clothing in the Platinium Club. They take the brunt of the initial investment. but over time will make up for it and we will get more variety. Everytime there is a new male item, I buy it immediately because it is useful, most of the female stuff I put in my wishlist for a later time. For example, I bought the Edwardian suit for GM2 and texture packs because it is something I can modernized with accessories and shaders. The new Edwardian dress for GF2 sat in my wishlist until the PC bundle. The male PC clothing does not have to be too elaborate, it just needs to fill in the clothing items that we are missing for most renders.

    Post edited by BurstAngel on
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