It's Not Raining Men

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  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,490

    Well, frankly, a lot of it comes down to some basic ideas and sources of texture maps.

    Simple tips:

    Using clothing texture as map:

    Click on diffuse map of your clothing and 'browse' for file. Copy the location of the clothing textures.

    Open up diffuse color texture in LIE. Create two layers for the two colors you want. Click one layer, add a layer mask, then set the layer mask... to the color map you originally have (this works best with simple two-color textures).

    Bam. Now if you have a black and white dress, you can have red and blue or whatever.

    You can then use the folder you browsed to, open up the clothing pattern and pull it to PHS/GIMP/whatever and turn it into a proper mask (black and white, make it more extreme), recolor it, or use the shape of it as a guideline to place other patterns (designs, paisley, whatever).

     

    Bump:

    As a VERY simple quick cheat, if clothing lacks a bump map, I usually try using the diffuse map as a bump map and setting it to 2. I'd say a lot of times I end up with something interesting, if nothing else, and keeps the clothing interesting-looking.

     

    One thing I like about Wilmap is that in the folders of the clothes are a few basic 'woven fabric' textures (do a search on the folders for 'fabric'). These are great for creating a cloth bump texture (If you are using Iray, I recommend setting the cloth bump texture, then open it up in Image Editor, click the second tab, then tile it to 4x4)

     

    One big upside is that a lot of actual fabric is nothing more than a patterned sheet that's been cut and arranged, so if you put a big tiled paisley pattern and the seams don't line up... well, that looks a lot like many real outfits.

     

  • DrowElfMorwenDrowElfMorwen Posts: 474
    edited November 2015

    if you need content you cant find it instead of asking a content creator to release a product that may not generate return on investment be prepared hire their expertise in a freelance capacity and pay them for their time. This will give you greater control over the product and you will be directly helping a product provider and reimbursing them for their time. If your asking someone to provide you with an asset and you not only wish to not pay them or have them see little or nothing in return here is the freepository. In addition to that you can learn modeling.

    I really, really want to comission PAs for their work, and I'm definitely willing to pay for it... But no one ever responds to any inquiries for a commission :/ (And I agree with many of the people here because I do far more male characters than females... And I'm tired of only finding skimpy outfits for females instead of accurate "real" ones).

    i definitely want to commission someone for some Genesis 1 pieces if anyone is willing... I am always looking  

    (edited out unacceptable term)

    Post edited by Cris Palomino on
  • EtriganEtrigan Posts: 603

    To those who feel that one variant of Mike or Vicky becomes obsolete with the release of a newer version. My position is, that all versions, unless they stop functioning in the current version of DS are viable. For example: I bought Major Cache, and it's add ons years ago. It came with M3 (was upgraded to M4). So, if I want the Major to appear in my images, I'll load him with M3 (lower memory drain). You don't see anything of the figure, so who cares what textures/clothing/eyes he has. A look at my gallery will show that I don't tend to do single character portraiture. I will tend to use my best characters in the forefront, but lately they tend to be V/M4 and G2m/f. Now M/F 1/2 may be getting a bit long in the tooth, but they'll still serve in the periphery. I don't see the Major Cache outfits being upgraded. Any new variant will be the newer Halo uniforms from the newest game. The same goes for all meshes. We all have different reasons for being DS users. But, rather than seeing obsolescence or out-of-date, simply see a resource... like a brush, a screwdriver, a keyboard. Once you've been around DS for a while you have a runtime that sits in the Gb of resources. Why waste it? Even M3 can likely be made Iray compatible.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
     

    One big upside is that a lot of actual fabric is nothing more than a patterned sheet that's been cut and arranged, so if you put a big tiled paisley pattern and the seams don't line up... well, that looks a lot like many real outfits.

     

    Unfortunately, accurate pattern matching on store bought clothing is something that died years ago...and it doesn't matter if it's the cheap section at WalMart or and exclusive shop on Rodeo Drive...it just doesn't happen any longer.  Yes, you can still find it in custom tailored items...but if it's off the rack and it's matched, go play the lottery, because it is your lucky day.

  • RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:

    The thing is that quite a few of those outfits that are posted can already be done with a texture change alone. That is the issue with quite a few of the suggestions I see over the years. I am all for more male stuff but a lot of it is already out there.

    Then why are there not more texture artists getting more support packs out there to generate more sales?  Seems to me there are a million and one little black dresses out there, most all look the same untextured and yet there they are, hitting the stores with good sales with very little support afterwards.  So there are a million and one surf board shorts and T's out there textured just a little differently... same thing but different sales results.  frown

    From what I understand, the add on pack with only sell a small percentage of the original set. Unless the add on comes out at the same time, it typically will not make enough of a sale to be worth the effort.

    It's really a shame.  I mean why not extend the sales life of a loved product rather than starting from scratch over and over again?  Such strange creatures us humans are at times............. indecision

    I agree.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,681
    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:

    The thing is that quite a few of those outfits that are posted can already be done with a texture change alone. That is the issue with quite a few of the suggestions I see over the years. I am all for more male stuff but a lot of it is already out there.

    Then why are there not more texture artists getting more support packs out there to generate more sales?  Seems to me there are a million and one little black dresses out there, most all look the same untextured and yet there they are, hitting the stores with good sales with very little support afterwards.  So there are a million and one surf board shorts and T's out there textured just a little differently... same thing but different sales results.  frown

    From what I understand, the add on pack with only sell a small percentage of the original set. Unless the add on comes out at the same time, it typically will not make enough of a sale to be worth the effort.

    It's really a shame.  I mean why not extend the sales life of a loved product rather than starting from scratch over and over again?  Such strange creatures us humans are at times............. indecision

    I agree.

     

    smiley  We go back a long ways GoM!  Apollo and Anton days!  lol

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    Biako said:
     

    My 2 cents... there are some who claim male items just don't sell well, and people just prefer the female items.  And yet when you go on sites like Zbrush galleries they're filled with the most amazing art featuring male characters.

    I'm not sure what to read into that... when it comes to what people are willing to make themselves vs what people will actually fork over money for.

    Most of those that do those items in Zbrush would NEVER use prebuilt assets for anything...they are fiercely against it.  So that isn't really a good place to judge from.   They are even more committed than the anti-postwork crowd int Daz/Poser-dom.

  • Do you think anyone from DAZ actually reads this? I feel like in spite of this thread everything on fast grab is female now and all new releases are female. I agree with RAMwolff...why didnt they just increase the lifespan of genesis 2? I feel like we had only just recieved it! I mean Scott just came out for gen 2. I was hesitant to pick it up because there wasnt much male content but then after a few months i bought it because of the amount of clothing and morphs that were created. 

     

    Also is there any chance the next gen 3 men (when its released) could come with the face and body morphs in it? I feel like it is so cheap to expect us to pay more money for what should already be part of it. 

  • lxlx Posts: 2,996
    newelies said:

    Do you think anyone from DAZ actually reads this? I feel like in spite of this thread everything on fast grab is female now and all new releases are female. I agree with RAMwolff...why didnt they just increase the lifespan of genesis 2? I feel like we had only just recieved it! I mean Scott just came out for gen 2. I was hesitant to pick it up because there wasnt much male content but then after a few months i bought it because of the amount of clothing and morphs that were created. 

     

    Also is there any chance the next gen 3 men (when its released) could come with the face and body morphs in it? I feel like it is so cheap to expect us to pay more money for what should already be part of it. 

    You expect that it's cheap of them to develop and build a high quality figure, give it to you for free, to use in a high quality program they give you for free, but then charge you a small amount for easy sliders that let you transform that figure into almost any human of that type that you want to?

    I would assume that the argument for not including them in the pro bundles is that you'd just be paying extra for them anyway and it adds an extra layer of complexity that many people that buy bundles probably won't take advantage of anyway. Bundled or not the amount you can create using only the free program, base figure, and two cheap morph sets is staggering for the money you put in to being able to do so. As an example, it's still cheaper than buying the most basic version of Poser, which can't even run the latest Daz models anyway.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    newelies said:

    Do you think anyone from DAZ actually reads this? I feel like in spite of this thread everything on fast grab is female now and all new releases are female. I agree with RAMwolff...why didnt they just increase the lifespan of genesis 2? I feel like we had only just recieved it! I mean Scott just came out for gen 2. I was hesitant to pick it up because there wasnt much male content but then after a few months i bought it because of the amount of clothing and morphs that were created. 

     

    Also is there any chance the next gen 3 men (when its released) could come with the face and body morphs in it? I feel like it is so cheap to expect us to pay more money for what should already be part of it. 

    1. It's been two years since Genesis 2 came out...and we were promissed, with the release of Genesis that the dev cycle would be about that (it was about 2 yrs between Genesis and Genesis 2, too.).  So far, they seem to be holding to the quicker release cycle.

    2.  It has always been that the majority of the morphs were paid add-ons.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    Biako said:
     I think the notion that male clothing won't sell is a self-fulfilling fallacy. Perhaps the actual issue is it's time to move on from jeans and shirts and shorts and business suits :)


    Chicken/egg syndrome...and it's hard to break away from it.  But it is a bit of an apples to grapefruit type comparison...

    And can't disagree with the second part.

  • pearbearpearbear Posts: 227

    I keep the old stuff alive in my runtime too. Some of the characters for V3 and S3 in particular are beautifully crafted, like Blackhearted's Irina for S3. I'm not throwing anything away, or saying that I don't value my older purchases. But if G3M is going to be a noticable improvement over G2M, and is expected to come out any day now, then it just makes sense to me to save my purchasing dollars for G3M's content. 

    I hope that the reason we've seen so few items for males lately is that the PAs have been working fervently on G3M stuff which they can't show until the figure is released, and it will soon all come out in a flood of beautiful content. At least, that's my hope...

    Regarding the puzzle of why the outside world of mainstream media is so saturated with male characters, but DAZ is centered around females, my theory is that there is a relatively silent but massive amount of DAZ customers who buy stuff for different reasons than making mainstream art. That's the most logical explanation I can think of for why there is so much awkward skimpwear and so little real-world clothing (things that characters in a mainstream film, comic book, or TV show might wear). I'm just guessing about that, though. Just out of curiosity, I wish I could pick a DAZ employee's brain to ask questions about how different kinds of customers' purchasing habits play out. We get a skewed view in the forum, only hearing from the kind of customer who feels like talking about it. Pretty sure I was playing with DAZ for at least a year or two before I ever considered looking at the forum. I wonder how many customers stick with DAZ for a long time, and how many dabble briefly and make only a few purchases before leaving to take something else for a hobby. Or how many people who download the software never once buy anything at all.

     

  • I don't know why I'm still up and online, but I am and I happen to see this new product, JM Proper Emissive Lights.  I love that the fourth promo image is of a male!!!! Yes, and he looks great.

  • caravellecaravelle Posts: 1,599
    nicstt said:

    Out of curiosity, do you own all male-focussed items - every single one?

    Out of curiosity: Would you buy everything, even if you don't like it and have no use for it, only because it is male stuff? We have a large choice of female clothes; if you don't like a particular one, you have many, many others to put into your cart. The choice of male clothes and accessories is much smaller. The vendors who are stating: "Male stuff doesn't sell!" like it was a law of the Medes and Persians maybe don't consider that the customers might like to have OTHER stuff, not no male stuff at all.

     

  • No, I'm pretty selective in what I buy.  I look at a product and see if it has all my buy buttons pushed.  I like outfits that look nice, but I also want something that has a lot of morphs built in so that it is less work for me when I go to pose a character.  Just like anything else, the product does have to have a certain amount of quality to it to go into my cart.  But, I will buy something that I may not need immediately if it has a lot of morphs and accessories even if I don't think I'll use it immediately to show my support of a male product especially if it is at a discounted price.  I rarely buy anything unless it is on sale.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,996
    edited November 2015

    Aside from clothing I get from pro bundles which is my default way of buying new characters, and pc+ items, I almost never buy clothing. Almost all of it is far too specific. It'd look weird to have your background or everyday characters in something so flashy, but then if I used one outfit once for one character, I could never use it again without it being forever associated as being that character's outfit, if that makes sense. It'd be like all of your heroes in different stories wearing Batman's costume, only perhaps changing the colour of it occasionally. Most of the outfits I see make me feel like that regardless of gender (obviously there are exceptions.)

    Of course, as soon as I go to look in the shop for some new release examples there are numerous outfits for G3F that are actually useful >.>

    Post edited by lx on
  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,779
    mjc1016 said:
    Biako said:
     I think the notion that male clothing won't sell is a self-fulfilling fallacy. Perhaps the actual issue is it's time to move on from jeans and shirts and shorts and business suits :)


    Chicken/egg syndrome...and it's hard to break away from it.  But it is a bit of an apples to grapefruit type comparison...

    And can't disagree with the second part.

    I can. We're always crying out for more everyday wear here in the forums.

  • HeraHera Posts: 1,837

    I had hoped to see G3M today. Maybe next week....

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,490
    mjc1016 said:

    Unfortunately, accurate pattern matching on store bought clothing is something that died years ago...and it doesn't matter if it's the cheap section at WalMart or and exclusive shop on Rodeo Drive...it just doesn't happen any longer.  Yes, you can still find it in custom tailored items...but if it's off the rack and it's matched, go play the lottery, because it is your lucky day.

    That's interesting, I never thought of it or noticed it previously. (I'm old enough, I assume, to have potentially seen such accurate clothing in my youth)

    Thanks for the info.

     

  • EtriganEtrigan Posts: 603
    mjc1016 said:

    Unfortunately, accurate pattern matching on store bought clothing is something that died years ago...and it doesn't matter if it's the cheap section at WalMart or and exclusive shop on Rodeo Drive...it just doesn't happen any longer.  Yes, you can still find it in custom tailored items...but if it's off the rack and it's matched, go play the lottery, because it is your lucky day.

    That's interesting, I never thought of it or noticed it previously. (I'm old enough, I assume, to have potentially seen such accurate clothing in my youth)

    Thanks for the info.

    I would never have given it a thought, either, until I went shopping with a lady friend. She'd pick up a pair of slacks and toss them disgustedly back on the rack. "Look! The pattern doesn't even match up at the seams!" BTW, this was basic rack stuff, and she did show me some higher-end pieces where the seamstress had worked to ensure that the pattern matched. She'd even check sleeve seams for matching.

     

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,292
    ? I don't really think patterns lining up at seams is an important thing? I mean maybe at the center if its a particularly pattern-y pattern, but most of the lines cut in cloth are curved, or not parallel to the grain, so them not matching is less bad craftsmanship and more an inevitability of making 3d stuff out of 2d
  • JennKJennK Posts: 834

    I am lookig forward to Slosh's Male Items. And for G3M

  • ToyenToyen Posts: 1,777

    November MUST be the month! Come on Daz!

  • As someone who sews, matching seems is a big deal and a good sign of quality.  Usually, it is something that is ignored these days of mass marketing.  No one has time to double check that patterns at the seams match.  And the way things are mass produced in the clothing industry, most articles of clothing aren't even sewn by one person.  It is assembly line sewing and there are almost as many seamstresses as there are peices working on the same article of clothing.  One person will set the sleeves, one with add the collar, one will sew the side seams, etc, right down the line until you have a finished garment.  Chances are, if the patterns match at the seam, the same seamstress sewed it and it is a higher end piece.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,996
    Toyen said:

    November MUST be the month! Come on Daz!

    After a month of PA Festival straight into over a month of PC+ Festival, my wallet kinda needs a break. But I also know I'll buy all the G3M stuff as soon as it turns up >.>

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    As someone who sews, matching seems is a big deal and a good sign of quality.  Usually, it is something that is ignored these days of mass marketing.  No one has time to double check that patterns at the seams match.  And the way things are mass produced in the clothing industry, most articles of clothing aren't even sewn by one person.  It is assembly line sewing and there are almost as many seamstresses as there are peices working on the same article of clothing.  One person will set the sleeves, one with add the collar, one will sew the side seams, etc, right down the line until you have a finished garment.  Chances are, if the patterns match at the seam, the same seamstress sewed it and it is a higher end piece.

    Now what does this mean for 3D?

    Either we are better than clothing manufacturers, in that we still care about matching...or we are just be too darn picky...

  • mjc1016 said:

    As someone who sews, matching seems is a big deal and a good sign of quality.  Usually, it is something that is ignored these days of mass marketing.  No one has time to double check that patterns at the seams match.  And the way things are mass produced in the clothing industry, most articles of clothing aren't even sewn by one person.  It is assembly line sewing and there are almost as many seamstresses as there are peices working on the same article of clothing.  One person will set the sleeves, one with add the collar, one will sew the side seams, etc, right down the line until you have a finished garment.  Chances are, if the patterns match at the seam, the same seamstress sewed it and it is a higher end piece.

    Now what does this mean for 3D?

    Either we are better than clothing manufacturers, in that we still care about matching...or we are just be too darn picky...

    Maybe a little bit of both!!! wink

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604

    TBH  the matching of patterns at the seams depends very much on the person (or machine)  doing the cutting

    You can't match patterns at the seam if the pieces haven't been cut to allow the match.   A good texturer, making a texture set for a 3D garment is like the Home dressmaker or Couturier, not the mass production line of cheaper real life garments.

  • Chohole said:

    TBH  the matching of patterns at the seams depends very much on the person (or machine)  doing the cutting

    You can't match patterns at the seam if the pieces haven't been cut to allow the match.   A good texturer, making a texture set for a 3D garment is like the Home dressmaker or Couturier, not the mass production line of cheaper real life garments.

    That is very true.  And it is hard to match patterns while cutting material if you want to use the least amount of material possible.  It is more cost efficient to layout pattern pieces so that they take up the least amount of space on your fabric.  You can't do that and maintain consistent pattern matching as they are diametrically opposite methodologies.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    Chohole said:

    TBH  the matching of patterns at the seams depends very much on the person (or machine)  doing the cutting

    You can't match patterns at the seam if the pieces haven't been cut to allow the match.   A good texturer, making a texture set for a 3D garment is like the Home dressmaker or Couturier, not the mass production line of cheaper real life garments.

    That is very true.  And it is hard to match patterns while cutting material if you want to use the least amount of material possible.  It is more cost efficient to layout pattern pieces so that they take up the least amount of space on your fabric.  You can't do that and maintain consistent pattern matching as they are diametrically opposite methodologies.

    That is also true.  I was once told, by a professional painter and decorator, that the way to match patterend wallpaper and lose the least amount is to have 2 rolls on the go at a time. So you cut one strip from the first roll, cut the 2nd strip from the 2nd roll, and repeat, thus lessening the wasted paper.

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