It's Not Raining Men

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Comments

  • lxlx Posts: 2,996

     

    diomede said:

    @Stormlyght

    Great - I was thinking of starting a separate thread for people to follow and give advice and mutual encouragement.  It would be even better to have a few creator-buddies, sort of like exercise buddies, to help persevere.  So, one question is whether it is better to do that in the Commons or the Art Studio forum.  Since part of the goal is to encourage and recruit more people to try their hand at content creation (in this case for males), maybe it is better to do it in the Commons?  With perseverence, and mutual encouragement, maybe the community has several more male clothing items at the end of our efforts.  And personally, I would appreciate constructive criticism and suggestions even from those who don't have the time or inclination to try to create custom clothing themselves.  I know I will have more skills at the end of the journey no matter how it turns out.

     

    Quick note on me since I don't spend much time in the Commons.

    In my own tastes, I am not big on photo-realism so the content that I have created for my own use would not be anywhere near store quality.  However, I do use genesis and genesis 2 males and make what I need if I can't adapt something that already exists.  Here are some examples: a medieval outfit for the Pied Piper of Hamlin, a teenage mutant ninja turtles costume, and the gang from space ghost.  See below.  Because I had not planned to distribute them, the meshes are not necessarly clean, the uvmaps are inefficient, they don't have many morphs, etc. 

     

    Can we get a few more mutual support buddies to join in?  And how should we proceed?  I've heard a couple calls for a sci-fi outfit, historical uniforms, and seen pics of runway models.  Maybe something simple like clothing suitable for golf?  warning, commercial - http://www.onlygolfapparel.com/ )

    How about we give some time to recruit a few others, then set the first two initial self-deadlines - 1st each person could decide on a project and 2nd gather reference material and other resources.  After that, then we can move to the third step and set a deadline to create each initial mesh - and then prepare for the wave of suggestions and constructive criticism!  Another deadline to adjust the mesh for the suggestions and provide the initial uvmaps.  Then the uvmap suggestions and criticisms!  Then...  See where I am going with this?  No hurry, by the way.  I know I am not quitting my day job.

     

    Note - some people are specialists so how can we be as inclusive as possible?  I mean that some people are more at home modeling while others like to take texture templates into Gimp or Photoshop and create great shaders.

     

    Totally open to other suggestions if this is either too ambitious or not ambitious enough.

     

     

    I'm interested, mostly because I don't know anything beyond the mesh+texture stage and am keen to learn. I don't really scour the forums but if you make a separate thread and link it here I'll go subscribe to it and join in making whatever the thing is.

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 1,746

    If Daz wanted there to be more male items in the store, there would be. There are 7144 items in the store labeled as Daz Originals. Not everything is up to the whims and likes of Published Artists. 

    If something is listed as a Daz Original (then to me) that implies a certain amount of direction, control and approval of what that item is. Daz can solicit and commisson items to be made for the store and their base figures if they don't have the in-house creative staff to make it. 

     

  • Timbales said:

    If Daz wanted there to be more male items in the store, there would be. There are 7144 items in the store labeled as Daz Originals. Not everything is up to the whims and likes of Published Artists. 

    If something is listed as a Daz Original (then to me) that implies a certain amount of direction, control and approval of what that item is. Daz can solicit and commisson items to be made for the store and their base figures if they don't have the in-house creative staff to make it. 

    Most of the DAZ Originals are items a PA has made on spec and offered to Daz (or for which they received an offer from Daz that they couldn't refuse). Very few are comissions.

  • RAMWolff said:

    The thing is that quite a few of those outfits that are posted can already be done with a texture change alone. That is the issue with quite a few of the suggestions I see over the years. I am all for more male stuff but a lot of it is already out there.

    Then why are there not more texture artists getting more support packs out there to generate more sales?  Seems to me there are a million and one little black dresses out there, most all look the same untextured and yet there they are, hitting the stores with good sales with very little support afterwards.  So there are a million and one surf board shorts and T's out there textured just a little differently... same thing but different sales results.  frown

    From what I understand, the add on pack with only sell a small percentage of the original set. Unless the add on comes out at the same time, it typically will not make enough of a sale to be worth the effort.

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 1,746
    Timbales said:

    If Daz wanted there to be more male items in the store, there would be. There are 7144 items in the store labeled as Daz Originals. Not everything is up to the whims and likes of Published Artists. 

    If something is listed as a Daz Original (then to me) that implies a certain amount of direction, control and approval of what that item is. Daz can solicit and commisson items to be made for the store and their base figures if they don't have the in-house creative staff to make it. 

    Most of the DAZ Originals are items a PA has made on spec and offered to Daz (or for which they received an offer from Daz that they couldn't refuse). Very few are comissions.

    So Daz can comission and has in the past? When that is the case, I assume Daz pays the creator for the item and the rights to it?

  • diomede said:

    @Stormlyght

    Great - I was thinking of starting a separate thread for people to follow and give advice and mutual encouragement.  It would be even better to have a few creator-buddies, sort of like exercise buddies, to help persevere.  So, one question is whether it is better to do that in the Commons or the Art Studio forum.  Since part of the goal is to encourage and recruit more people to try their hand at content creation (in this case for males), maybe it is better to do it in the Commons?  With perseverence, and mutual encouragement, maybe the community has several more male clothing items at the end of our efforts.  And personally, I would appreciate constructive criticism and suggestions even from those who don't have the time or inclination to try to create custom clothing themselves.  I know I will have more skills at the end of the journey no matter how it turns out.

     

    Quick note on me since I don't spend much time in the Commons.

    In my own tastes, I am not big on photo-realism so the content that I have created for my own use would not be anywhere near store quality.  However, I do use genesis and genesis 2 males and make what I need if I can't adapt something that already exists.  Here are some examples: a medieval outfit for the Pied Piper of Hamlin, a teenage mutant ninja turtles costume, and the gang from space ghost.  See below.  Because I had not planned to distribute them, the meshes are not necessarly clean, the uvmaps are inefficient, they don't have many morphs, etc. 

     

    Can we get a few more mutual support buddies to join in?  And how should we proceed?  I've heard a couple calls for a sci-fi outfit, historical uniforms, and seen pics of runway models.  Maybe something simple like clothing suitable for golf?  warning, commercial - http://www.onlygolfapparel.com/ )

    How about we give some time to recruit a few others, then set the first two initial self-deadlines - 1st each person could decide on a project and 2nd gather reference material and other resources.  After that, then we can move to the third step and set a deadline to create each initial mesh - and then prepare for the wave of suggestions and constructive criticism!  Another deadline to adjust the mesh for the suggestions and provide the initial uvmaps.  Then the uvmap suggestions and criticisms!  Then...  See where I am going with this?  No hurry, by the way.  I know I am not quitting my day job.

     

    Note - some people are specialists so how can we be as inclusive as possible?  I mean that some people are more at home modeling while others like to take texture templates into Gimp or Photoshop and create great shaders.

     

    Totally open to other suggestions if this is either too ambitious or not ambitious enough.

     

     

    Interesting idea.  I wouldn't mind joining in on something like this so that I could go through the process with other like minded people.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,477

    Great.  I am so happy that a few people are interested.  I have started a thread here.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/65357/the-male-content-creation-mutual-support-group-thread

    No time pressure to get anything started.  Let us work out the specifics in that thread.

     

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,471

    I lack skills to make anything, but I will be watching with interest. ;)

     

  • I've bookmarked the new thread and even added a few helpful links

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,477

    Thank you.  Very helpful.

    I've bookmarked the new thread and even added a few helpful links

     

  • gbmorphs said:

    The reason male products don't sell as well is because they don't make enough variety. Good lord,  ever guy looks like the 5 guys who came before him. All anybody makes is tshirts, shorts and bad athletic shoes. A lot of the female armor could easily be adapted to the male form, but Daz doesn't care. Put some quality product out there for males. How in the world can you have 8000 dresses for females and no fireman, cop / swat, real military unitorm. How about some futuristic and or fantasy ancient armor. Something that actually fits and you can customize. What we get is quick stuff that doesn't fit well and ist hard to customize. I have the money to spend, but no products to spend it on. The fact that there is no G3 Male is a not only a shame but is stupid. It shouldn't take a year to get a new male figure after the female version. The fact they NEVER speak to these issues says even more. Sadly, we don't have many other choices.

    YES PLEASE!      TOTALLY agree wt=ith you. I would love to see some more fantasy armour and uniforms.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,996

    My original expectations for male clothing available were that there'd be many things like this:

    http://i.imgur.com/TNJoMHw.jpg

    Now obviously those particular designs are copyright to Blizzard so you couldn't duplicate and sell them (well you might be able to since people do sell real replicas of game items but I'm not going near that legal minefield so let's leave that aside for now) but regardless, they're just a small sample of many years worth of designs for males (the female versions are almost identical with slight adjustments) that have been super popular among players of those games. Very often the new set designs are one of the highlights many players look forward to with a new patch, and it has nothing to do with how sexy or skimpy the female looks in it (generally the male versions are considered more popular because they tend to have large shoulders making the sets look better proportionally.)

    Obviously this sort of thing isn't going to be to everyone's tastes, and is often equally as impractical for real life wear, but with the amount of fantasy armour (real full sets, not just a bikini) I've seen people excited about over the years, I expected to be swamped by this kind of stuff in the Daz Store. There's more room for variety than even bikinis!

    Maybe I'm completely wrong and everyone thinks it's stupid?

  • isidornisidorn Posts: 1,570
    edited November 2015

    I've never understood those humongous shoulder pads that's so common in fantasy armours and think they just look ridicilous. Obviously others think otherwise, or they wouldn't be so common.

    Might add, the armours themselves usually look pretty cool, but the shoulder pads? No thanks.

    Post edited by isidorn on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,680
    RAMWolff said:

    The thing is that quite a few of those outfits that are posted can already be done with a texture change alone. That is the issue with quite a few of the suggestions I see over the years. I am all for more male stuff but a lot of it is already out there.

    Then why are there not more texture artists getting more support packs out there to generate more sales?  Seems to me there are a million and one little black dresses out there, most all look the same untextured and yet there they are, hitting the stores with good sales with very little support afterwards.  So there are a million and one surf board shorts and T's out there textured just a little differently... same thing but different sales results.  frown

    From what I understand, the add on pack with only sell a small percentage of the original set. Unless the add on comes out at the same time, it typically will not make enough of a sale to be worth the effort.

    It's really a shame.  I mean why not extend the sales life of a loved product rather than starting from scratch over and over again?  Such strange creatures us humans are at times............. indecision

  • isidorn said:

    I've never understood those humongous shoulder pads that's so common in fantasy armours and think they just look ridicilous. Obviously others think otherwise, or they wouldn't be so common.

    Might add, the armours themselves usually look pretty cool, but the shoulder pads? No thanks.

    I believe the reason behind most adornments like that on armor is to scare the enemy.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,996
    edited November 2015
    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:

    The thing is that quite a few of those outfits that are posted can already be done with a texture change alone. That is the issue with quite a few of the suggestions I see over the years. I am all for more male stuff but a lot of it is already out there.

    Then why are there not more texture artists getting more support packs out there to generate more sales?  Seems to me there are a million and one little black dresses out there, most all look the same untextured and yet there they are, hitting the stores with good sales with very little support afterwards.  So there are a million and one surf board shorts and T's out there textured just a little differently... same thing but different sales results.  frown

    From what I understand, the add on pack with only sell a small percentage of the original set. Unless the add on comes out at the same time, it typically will not make enough of a sale to be worth the effort.

    It's really a shame.  I mean why not extend the sales life of a loved product rather than starting from scratch over and over again?  Such strange creatures us humans are at times............. indecision

    Speaking personally, I don't like buying texture packs (unless they come as a sales bundle or something) because I always feel like "oh, it's just an image change, I could do that." And I could, but also ... I probably never will.

    Pretty much all of the environments featured in the premier bundles recently had an addon to them that dramatically changed the look and feel of the piece. I thought that was really cool (and bought almost all of them.) But then I see a texture pack for let's say black dress 47, and now you can make it a pink dress. Or green! I would not expect that to sell well at all.

    There's also the issue of "oh this new product x requires product y, which I don't have. Don't want to have to buy a whole extra thing!" This is also true of characters having other figure dependencies, which I assume is why everyone just makes stuff for Victoria or G3F, which is why people question the many varieties of skinny white girl base models, but that's a whole separate thing.

    Post edited by lx on
  • HeraHera Posts: 1,831

    There are vendors like OOT who regularly retexture content sold here. But, they aren't sold here- they are sold at Rendo.

    And there are seldom anything for the boys :(

  • EtriganEtrigan Posts: 603
    lx said:
    RAMWolff said:
    RAMWolff said:

    Speaking personally, I don't like buying texture packs (unless they come as a sales bundle or something) because I always feel like "oh, it's just an image change, I could do that." And I could, but also ... I probably never will.

     

    I do not intend to contradict, simply elaborate, Not all add-on packs are simply texture changes. DZfire (aka 26Farenheit) creates add-ons that are essential IMHO. His add ons for Sedition Soldier, Major Cache, Liquid Knight on Sky 16, and etc. are notable exceptions. Also, with more complex texture maps, change-ups are quite labor intensive and I welcome another artist's take. 

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,471

    Nice stuff, into wishlist for when V4/M4 era stuff is at a heavy discount. Because wow. Heh.

  • pearbearpearbear Posts: 227

    To echo and elaborate on what someone else said, ever since g3f came out I've been more reluctant to buy things for g2m. I'm trying to avoid the aggravation of buying a bunch of stuff for g2m which will suddenly be outmoded by new versions or similar products released for g3m. 

    It feels like g3m will come out any day now (actually, I thought it would come out a long time ago), so I'm even holding back on the truly beautiful looking new M601 set by Uzilite. It looks amazing, but it's languishing in my wish list unless I have a sudden specific need for it, because I'll kick myself if a g3m version of it comes out next week. If it was made for g3m I'd snap it right up.

    I guess now that I've been through a few upgrade cycles of DAZ products, my spending habits are reflecting how I anticipate the pattern to go. The release of g3f was a total surprise to me, so I continued to buy g2f stuff right up til g3f came out. But now that I have the feeling that g3m is imminent, anything for g2m looks a lot less attractive (especially characters, which are much less transferable to the next generation than clothes). If that seems to be the case for a lot of customers, it could be a good reason for DAZ to prepare and release the next generation of male and female characters simultaneously.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 9,008
    pearbear said:

    To echo and elaborate on what someone else said, ever since g3f came out I've been more reluctant to buy things for g2m. I'm trying to avoid the aggravation of buying a bunch of stuff for g2m which will suddenly be outmoded by new versions or similar products released for g3m. 

    It feels like g3m will come out any day now (actually, I thought it would come out a long time ago), so I'm even holding back on the truly beautiful looking new M601 set by Uzilite. It looks amazing, but it's languishing in my wish list unless I have a sudden specific need for it, because I'll kick myself if a g3m version of it comes out next week. If it was made for g3m I'd snap it right up.

    I guess now that I've been through a few upgrade cycles of DAZ products, my spending habits are reflecting how I anticipate the pattern to go. The release of g3f was a total surprise to me, so I continued to buy g2f stuff right up til g3f came out. But now that I have the feeling that g3m is imminent, anything for g2m looks a lot less attractive (especially characters, which are much less transferable to the next generation than clothes). If that seems to be the case for a lot of customers, it could be a good reason for DAZ to prepare and release the next generation of male and female characters simultaneously.

    The release of G3M doesn't mean anything you have for G2M will suddenly stop working, or that you will have to do everything with G3M after that...

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 5,831

    It's fairly safe to predict that most G3M will ship with an autofit clone for G2M clothing. And that most of it will take the shift acceptably. Some things will need to be tweaked, and we'll be waiting on Zev0 for a Fit Control item. But I'd say most G2M stuff is a reasonably safe purchase. Although if a G3M refit is available I'd probably grab that too.

    Actually, what I find I've been doing lately os autofitting G2M stuff to Genesis1. Most of it does pretty well.

  • Oh look, fastgrab was updated again. And guess what

    frown

  • pearbearpearbear Posts: 227
    Leana said:
    pearbear said:

    To echo and elaborate on what someone else said, ever since g3f came out I've been more reluctant to buy things for g2m. I'm trying to avoid the aggravation of buying a bunch of stuff for g2m which will suddenly be outmoded by new versions or similar products released for g3m. 

    It feels like g3m will come out any day now (actually, I thought it would come out a long time ago), so I'm even holding back on the truly beautiful looking new M601 set by Uzilite. It looks amazing, but it's languishing in my wish list unless I have a sudden specific need for it, because I'll kick myself if a g3m version of it comes out next week. If it was made for g3m I'd snap it right up.

    I guess now that I've been through a few upgrade cycles of DAZ products, my spending habits are reflecting how I anticipate the pattern to go. The release of g3f was a total surprise to me, so I continued to buy g2f stuff right up til g3f came out. But now that I have the feeling that g3m is imminent, anything for g2m looks a lot less attractive (especially characters, which are much less transferable to the next generation than clothes). If that seems to be the case for a lot of customers, it could be a good reason for DAZ to prepare and release the next generation of male and female characters simultaneously.

    The release of G3M doesn't mean anything you have for G2M will suddenly stop working, or that you will have to do everything with G3M after that...

    I know... this is simply my own way of thinking and purchasing from DAZ which I thought I'd describe, since everyone does things in their own way: I tend to buy things when they're first released even though I don't need them right away, because they're at a discount then and I'll probably want them in the future, so I might as well buy them at a discount. So M601 looks great, but I don't need it for a project at the moment. I bet in the next three or four months, some project will come along that I'll want M601 for though, so normally I'd buy it right now. By the time I use it however, g3m should be released and I'd rather use g3m clothes if they are available, since they ought to fit the figure better, bend better, and have more up to date Iray shaders (since it looks like DAZ 4.9 will have some changes and advancements for Iray).

    I'm a fan of autofitting old clothes to new figures - I still buy M4 stuff for g2m if I need it for a project, and I can't find newer clothes. But if I'm buying something planned for future use because I don't want to miss a deal, I don't want it to be previous generation by the time I use it. I assume this is why the releases of G2F and then G3F came suddenly and by surprise with no prior announcement to the customers, because lots of people hesitate to buy things for a figure they think will be phased out - knowing about g3f's release date ahead of time would have hurt sales for g2f stuff.

    Mainly, my point is that if this is a factor for a lot of people, and it's causing G2M clothing sales to be hurting especially bad right now, it might be better for DAZ and the creators and purchasers of male content if the next gen of males and females are released together. It's smart of DAZ to keep release dates a secret, but if everyone and their grandma is certain G3M will release 3-6 months after G3F, that heightened anticipation of G3M during the predictable interim period has to be really hurting G2M sales. I'm with you guys in wanting to see more male content, and wanting to see a healthier market for male stuff, just putting in my two cents about why I make some of my purchasing decisions, why I regretably haven't been buying much for G2M lately, and my own psychology as a customer.

  • araneldon said:

    Oh look, fastgrab was updated again. And guess what

    frown

    Except for the Bicycle and Furniture (both with poses), EVERY SINGE ITEM is for female.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,996

     

    Etrigan said:

    I do not intend to contradict, simply elaborate, Not all add-on packs are simply texture changes. DZfire (aka 26Farenheit) creates add-ons that are essential IMHO. His add ons for Sedition Soldier, Major Cache, Liquid Knight on Sky 16, and etc. are notable exceptions. Also, with more complex texture maps, change-ups are quite labor intensive and I welcome another artist's take. 

    I agree, I love the major changeup type addons, and am far more likely to be interested in them as a customer than a colour swap.

    That said, if I was making a decision about what to create as a vendor, an addon would not be all that desirable unless I was really passionate about it. I wouild think that requiring another product is going to hurt sales. In that situation I would probably risk the lowered sales of my older product and simply release the upgraded/addon version as a separate standalone.

    Also, I completely agree with pearbear that regardless of the practicality or reality of the usefulness of things, I absolutely have far less interest in buying anything for G2M knowing that G3M is coming soon. If I was a vendor who knew that the new generation was close, I would probably continue creating whatever I was working on, but hold off on release until I could adapt and sell it as a G3M+G2M outfit whatever. Or simply skip to G3M and try to get some extra sales while he's new.

    Note: I have no knowledge of how PAs or Daz decide things on products; I'm just going off what I would want as a consumer and how I would try to anticipate those needs.

     

    Fastgrab may be full of female stuff, but Gianni 6 Pro is at least on Daily Spotlight.

     

     

  • I'm actually surprised that more clothing vendors don't pair up with texture artists.  I know there are some pieces of clothing that I have completely skipped until a really good texture artist saw something that I didn't and went the extra mile by adding new material zones and almost completely changing the look of the garment.  In many cases, I've gone back and wishlisted several outfits because I like a particular texture pack or add-on and then waited until it was on sale to get it.  If it weren't for the texture artists around here, there are a lot of pieces of clothing I would completely ignore.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,471
    edited November 2015

    I like texturing, myself, and I think I'm pretty good at it. The upside is that it gives me a lot more interest in clothing than I would normally have, because even if it's old/low resolution, I know I can either slap some completely different texture on it or spruce it up to look good.

    Edit: Note that I mean 2d stuff. 3d painting/texturing is ha ha way beyond me at the moment.

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • araneldon said:

    Oh look, fastgrab was updated again. And guess what

    frown

    Except for the Bicycle and Furniture (both with poses), EVERY SINGE ITEM is for female.

    Every female item feels the heat of this thread.  That's why it's singed.

     

  • I like texturing, myself, and I think I'm pretty good at it. The upside is that it gives me a lot more interest in clothing than I would normally have, because even if it's old/low resolution, I know I can either slap some completely different texture on it or spruce it up to look good.

    Edit: Note that I mean 2d stuff. 3d painting/texturing is ha ha way beyond me at the moment.

    Texturing is something I haven't gotten into yet.  I suppose I will have to if I start making my own clothing.  I'm just starting to learn how to use GIMP so that I could try modifying the skins.  Right now, I just use shaders to make changes to outfits.  It works for now, but the more I get into this, the more I can see doing my own texturing down the line.  I can still see an advantage to teaming up with someone who is better at texturing than I am.

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