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When did you become snarky? *watches closely*
I like Eva herself but not the clothes, she looks like a younger Carol from The Walking Dead in one promo render. Not enough to convince me to move to G3 justyet but the Chase Hair went right into my cart. Thanks AprilSYH!
Well, I think the Eva 7 promo pics are very good at showing her body type, and for me that's the first priority. The girl has some very long legs and she has a "look" that does appear in some percentage of the population at large. I don't think any other characters to date have her body type. Now, maybe there should be some non-skimpwear options available for her, but my runtime has closets of ladies' clothing; surely something would fit!
Will I buy her? I still haven't bought Victoria 7. Still thinking about this one.
Maybe this is Bethany 7!? V7 is Margot Robbie.
CHEERS!
If you add a bit of 'face long' Eva becomes Vicky Perks from 80's rockers Fuzzbox.
CHEERS!
Sorry, Steve, that is not "diversity."
Diversity would be, oh... Africans (NO MORE VOODOO!!), Asians, South-Asians, East-Asians, PROPER European morphs, let's see some East Europeans, some Thai, Korean, Indian, let's see some, oh, I don't know... Pacific Northwest Coast tribe American Indian, some East Coast American Indian morphs and skins... yanno, Salish, Tlingit, S'Klallam, Haida, Yupik, let's see some Inuit, let's see some Seneca, Mohawk, Seminole, Dakota, Nakota, I could go on.. let's see some proper Latinos...
I want dark skin, I want brown skin, I want the shades in between. I want the same for the males!
I want curvy shapes, I want full shapes, I want older shapes, older morphs, children's morphs and shapes, I want the whole rainbow of the human race, and that includes the gentlemen with the beer bellies (and clothes that morph to it!), the ladies with the stretch marks because they've had a child or two, the teens and young teens who have a little bit of plump to them because they're still growing. I want morphs and props and conformers to account for disabilities, I want skins, and prosthetics, I want average/every-day wear, I want shirts that don't insist on showing cleavage or bellies, I want skirts that actually come down to *gasp* the KNEE!! Or even the ANKLE!
I know, pipe dreaming here, right...
I want sci-fi outfits that don't have the boobs hanging out, or show plumber's cleavage. I want fantasy genre outfits for the women that don't make them look like they should be working a street corner or a stripper pole. I want boots that DONT HAVE HEELS on them for these adventuring outfits. I want sports wear, formal wear, and ethnic wear (ethnic wear that is PROPERLY MADE), I want the abuse of stereotypes to STOP. I want proper working uniforms; I want law enforcement and construction props and conformers, and I want them made properly, and by properly I don't mean skimpwear! I want male clothing to actually show that men are intelligent, feeling creatures, not just "dumb barbarians" or "beefcakes". I want proper medical gear and conformers for both genders.
Daz's definition of diversity and the general population's definition of diversity are two very different things. Creatures, fantasy races, sci-fi races, sure, we had quite a few of that with Gen3, Gen4, Genesis 1, and G2's. But that is NOT what we're talking about when we say we want diversity.
I want to see something that actually inspires me to create, instead of making me roll my eyes, cuss, and walk away in disgust. And frankly, that's been my reaction to about 90% of what Daz has put out since at least the G2's.
Yes, I know I'm only one customer, and I know I'm not the big-money industrial/commercial company kind of customer, so I'm pretty sure that this won't matter to the PA's or those in charge at Daz. But if this thread and the others are anything to go by, I'd suggest that I'm not alone, either. My spending has trickled down quite a bit here, as a direct result of yet another white girl+skimpwear+hair-that-no-girl-would-ever-leave-their-house-with "pro" bundles that are being pumped out every month.
I want to see QUALITY over QUANTITY! I don't care if it takes a PA two months to put out a product, if what they're putting out is WELL MADE and USEFUL!
I want to see creativity and imagination in the PA's products.
I want Daz to give some of the wonderful PA's they have, the TIME to actually DO their top quality work, instead of constantly pushing them to "hurry up with the next bikini!" You hired them for a reason - let them do their jobs!!
But hey, I'm just one of the "minority" on the forums, so what do I know?
In the meantime, it saves me a lot of money, so I can't complain about that. It leaves me open to purchase from vendors and stores that actually do offer the kind of content I require. It also leaves me open to grab up every morph pack people like Zev produce, because I hand-morph every figure I render. And at this point, I am at the stage of not even bothering to look in stores for skins - I know that what I want won't be there. I save up for merchant resources and make my own.
I want male content to equal the female content. I want the stereotypes for both gender and race to STOP. I want to see content for BOTH genders that actually INSPIRES me. Daz USED to do this. It no longer does. Some of us have been howling about this for YEARS, and are consistently told to stuff it, to drop it, no one wants to hear you whine about it, quit complaining.
If Daz wants me to use G3, and wants me to give up ten years worth of content when there's nothing wrong with that content then Daz seriously needs to reassess it's business model, it's product, and it's actual definition of "Diversity" - because without PROPER diversity, and proper clothing and textures and props and morphs... I don't buy.
If I can't make my S'Klallam police chief, or my Hitchiti teleporter - then I don't buy the product. If I can't make my 65-year old Inuit woman, then I don't buy the product. If I can't make my 50-year old father of three, then I don't buy.
I realize that we are still early in the G3 release. I'll admit that the base G3 is a very nice figure. But unless Daz offers me content that I can actually USE in my artwork, my wallet will remain shut and locked. You want me to buy G3? Give me something to buy. Until you do? I don't buy, and by the looks of the forums around here at the moment, it seems I'm not alone in that sentiment.
Don't worry - I won't post further on this thread. I've pretty much said all that I wanted to say here. I just don't understand Daz's mentality. You have SO MUCH TALENT under your label. You have SO MANY great PA's, and SO MUCH SKILL... and you consistently choke-hold them with rush-jobs (pro bundles, latest flavor of the month white girl). For god's sakes, Daz... let your PAs actually BE a PA again.
Thank you for letting me express myself. I will see myself to the door now; I know right where it is.
Cheers.
~ Seliah
It's not some big holy cause for me, it's simply this...
If I have one or two 'pale Caucasian girl' models, plus some general morphs... what exactly is my incentive to buy YET ANOTHER pale Caucasian girl? I bought Ninive 6 not because I thought the model was compelling, but, frankly, because the hair and outfits seemed worth it at the package sale price. And then the model was just sort of an extra bonus. Because the hair and outfit (arthurian dress) were DIFFERENT than things I already had.
Why do I want 16 different style panties for characters, when I could pick things wide ranging?
Personally, my buying habits are trying to pick out items that do something very different from what I have, and can be manipulated to be used in lots of different ways.
So I want, say, a black jass singer with assorted clothing, hair, and props, not because I want better representation, but because that's an assembly of different types of things I might find a use for. Having several different witchdoctor outfits on different black people? That's hedging your bets on people really wanting a lot of differences between their witchdoctors.
You may be arguing with a doorknob about why it is not a nicely textured bannister. But if it where, the next complaint might be about why the bannister is not a beautiful piano. The doorknob has no control over what it is and what it isn't.
Likewise, some of the PAs have said that long skirts and other "conservative" clothing choices just don't sell. There is a lot of vocal complaining, but not a lot of sales to back it up. Maybe ethnic choices are similarly hampered in the marketplace and that's why we don't see more of them. I did read in another thread a year or so ago that getting textures and maps for ethnic characters is neigh impossible due to cultural or religious apprehensions (allowing photos or scans of full body, etcetera). Bannister, why oh why couldn't you be a beautiful 9-foot concert grand?
For DAZ and I suspect most PAs, this is not a hobby. They need to pay the rent and put food on their tables too, so they must take into consideration the market demand (or lack thereof) for whatever product they are planning to spend their valuable labor time and creative effort on.
I've been thinking that the best way to get more of these options just may be to find a way to attract more "hobbyist PAs" along with the "professional PAs" that we already have. Maybe the only way to get more low-demand items is to get more content creators who DON'T do this or need this for their main income, but who have a genuine interest or love-of-craft in making those low-demand items.
The problem there is training one's self and engaging in the creative work in spite of the limited free time left over after full time job, family, friends, fitness, and other responsibilities have been attended to. And then not making much money due to low sales numbers. Yes, this has to be a labor of love, and maybe only doable by people who are already successful in some OTHER thing or industry.
I think if anybody could encourage and cultivate this, it might be DAZ who'd be best equipped.
Hey there! Long time no visit ;)
I have something in the works that you might like... The only question is who will take her.
The bundles were better put together this time than usual I think. Figure, hair, pose set, couple outfits. Oh and an HD character. But I didn't care for the hair(s) or the outfits.
I only got the base figure like with Lilith.
(and a couple pose sets)
I know... I have them :)
Pro packs are Prosumer packs. So not regular consumers and not professional.
You don't have to fly overseas to get samples...so the religious and cultural gimmic don't really work. Besides I don't know how long it's been since Daz released an Elite texture(ya know that used body scans). I have read that PA's say they don't have reference material in whatever library the have access to and could see why they don't have the resources to pay for them. But the rest of that stuff is filler to throw people off the right path.
I could totally see why a modern day living Mayan wouldn't want to get a body scan to be turned into digital ancient dolly. But to be able to recreate people you don't neccesarily need to folow that particular path.
Long and short of it, there isn't interest to produce said products. We get 100 billion white characters and I can tell you it's easy to see they aren't all based on body scans...
What I will never understand is why anything non-caucasian is considered 'ethnic'. Can anyone explain that?
I agree exclusively using ethnic for non-caucasians is not correct, however if you live where I live and use that term people will understand what you mean. We have ethnic food isles in our grocery stores. People know what to expect there.
But you may have noticed some people have expressed interest in more ethnic caucasians, like Eastern Europeans for example. Something different than middle of the line generic that is often crafted.
I grumble about the mis-use of "ethnic" to mean "ethnic minority in a particular part of the world", but I think it's like "equally as" and "make a nonsense of" - not only has the horse bolted but the stable has been redeveloped as a luxury apartment block.
Well, I'm Scandinavian (and judging by your name, so are you :) ), but we usually use 'ethnic' to refer to minorities, like Sami or Inuit. Not really correct either, but better than lumping every non-caucasian ethnicity in. Foreign foodstores are usually referred to as 'international' foodstores (and they carry Pocky and Mochi! Yummi!)
I just find it bizarre that white is the standard while everything else is 'ethnic'. Who made that decision?
White people. Duh. ;)
If you want a resource for body and facial data then I would suggest somewhere like 3D.SK, they already are tied to several big players in the gaming industry and I'm sure they'd welcome Daz's business. Some Poser content creators did use it at one point as I'm sure I used to see pics on there.
Just a thought
CHEERS!
You will probably find that the majority of PAs who make skins and characters are already members of http://www.3d.sk/
That wouldn't surprise me. Thing is, with all that to draw from, there still isn't much diversity. The Elite Ethnic Faces for V4/M4 were the last decent step taken in that direction and you could mix and match for loads of variety. Whoever did those for you needs to do a version for both G2 and G3.
CHEERS!
Well, seriously, if all 'ethnics' wore skimpwear and 5 inch heels the 'problem' would be solved yesterday.
Indeed, LOL!
CHEERS!
My favorite post so far of all this conversation. I just removed most of it because it was so long but know Seliah I read every word and agree whole heartedly!
Richard
HAHAHAHAHAHA.. that was great Richard!
He needs more hairy models, that's all I'm saying!
When I was a regular member of his site I must have downloaded about 10 full sets of models, some even smooth, all male ... when I redid my Bruno face textures and body parts I used a model with ideal eyebrows and all the rest to put in the details that were missing from when I made his skin and after Jepe added his own improvements and sent it back to me what over 10 years ago now?
short stocky Celtic people are also underrepresented as are Australian aboriginals, South Sea islamders, to name a few and my Latvian thunder thighs certainly do not dial up well with the box gapped DAZ supermodels, thank you Sickleyield for your Big beautiful girl.
I literally LOLd