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Please don´t exaggerate, some stereotypes are expected with these types of figures and anybody insulted/outraged by this just needs to get a grip.
When a black character comes out, people expect to see some african themed stuff to come with it, not expect it to arrive in a Marie Antoinette gown.
Also, these characters is where these stereotypical products fit the best and usually look the best. Eva 7 the african witch doctor? That just wouldnt look right.
Honestly, THIS right here is the way I see it.
I mean, just how does one really market a nationality in this day and age? If an African or Asian character is created for the primary purpose of troping national culture, of course they are racist stereotypes. Yet, at the same time in entertainment, Asia is iconic for its action/fighter movies (Karate Kid, Kill Bill, etc.) while a setting like Africa or an island of black residence is situated with a plot themed around tribal mysticism (Pirates of The Caribbean).
So, I don’t think DAZ deliberately does this out of ignorance so much as that is what the movie industry does themselves, and successfully so. Even DAZ_Steve revealed that the Mei Lin/Lee and Monique/Darius bundles sold notably better than other preceding ethnic releases because of this tactic.
Yeah, I've been waiting for "Fat Lazy Americans" and "Italian Goombas from Jersey" for G2M, I don't know what the hold up is.......
I'm not someone who's easily offended or very PC, but the stereotype character bundles just scream all kinds of wrong when they are the ONLY products released for that character.
Lets put this into perspective:
Mafioso for Freak 4 & M4:
http://www.daz3d.com/mafioso
So, as an American of Italian Decsent, am I offended by that product?....
No.
It's one of a MANY products for F4/M4, so there is nothing to get offended by. Not to me anyway.
Now, let's say Daz released a specific Italian Male character, and his included bundle consisted solely of a Pin-Stripe Suit, Slicked Back Hair, a Big Cigar, and a set of "Jersey Shore Poses"
Not to mention, the first thing you see on the shops splash page is promo art consisting of him doing "Italian" Things like eating spaghetti and meatballs, holding a tommy-gun, playing poker.....
and, most importantly, that's the only product that ever comes out for the character....
What makes that hypothetical example offensive is that by virtue of being the ONLY product for the character, it sends a message:
Italian-Americans = Mafia types from Jersey.
As I said, it's 2015 and that's not something I really have to deal with, there are lots of different themes for all the characters, so in this case, a Mafia Character set is all in good fun.
Unfortunatley, a Witch Doctor as one of the ONLY themes for one of the ONLY Black characters for G2M isn't fun at all.
And I find it hard to believe people are expecting to see a "Witch Doctor" theme for the release of an African Character.
You Don't.
Referring to my previous post, was M4 Marketed as a "Gun-Crazy War Mongering American" or a "Brits drinking Tea"?
I Agree.
Context is everything.
There is nothing wrong or offensive(not to me) in your examples, but it's not the same as the Daz characters.
Here's an example:
In the original King Kong (1933), a group of Americans go to tropical island in search of a giant gorilla.
Although The island is described as being located off the coast of Asia, it is populated by "African-Natives", for lack of a better term.
There is a scene on the island where the Native-Chief, Played by African-American Actor Noble Johnson, sees the Blonde Haired American Woman, Fay Wray.
He then offers to TRADE 5 Native Women for the 1 Blonde Haired American Woman......
Translation: White People are more Valuable than Black People..........
King Kong came out in 1933.
This was an era when White people exclusively played all the major characters in films.
You don't exactly need a degree in sociology to realize how screwed up a scene like that is, WHEN ITS ONE OF THE ONLY MOVIES TO PORTRAY A BLACK CHARACTER.
Sorry for the caps, but I feel that's the point that most people are missing.
Its not the stereotype characters in and of themselves, it's that they are almost exclusively the only characters available for any characters that are not Caucasian.
When it comes to Monique and Darius I am very happy with how they look and the products that come with them.
I think Daz handled it quite well.
As for the witch doctor -
Darius Pro Bundle has 2 everyday outfits and 1 african themed witch doctor outfit which I believe is expected and appropriate.
Imagine it did not come with this "stereotypical" african outfit, then you would have people saying "oh its great to finally see a black character but why is there no african themed stuff that would reflect their heritage and culture?" or " Oh I was looking forward to doing some african themed renders but there were no products for it in the Pro Bundle..."
I guess it is impossible to please everyone but so far I think Daz is doing a good job and yes I expect to see witch doctors when africans come out, yes I expect to see karate/kimono/geishas/samurai when asians come out and I would definitely LOVE and expect to see mafia if an Italian character came out : )
I think that these so called stereotypes should not be looked upon as something bad, I see it as a great way to display the cultural/historical background of these characters and if it worked this way with all the white girls we´re getting, I´d certainly welcome that and would not be offended by any potential stereotypes.
The white girls are usually a little bit of everything or made to fit a certain theme no matter where they may be from rather than cultural stereotype - Gia the athletic warriror, Olympia the curvy goddes, Lilith the gothic demon.
As long as there is something for everyone (those who want to render tribal warriors can do that and those who want to render a modern african american character can do that as well) I just really don´t see an issue.
Some people don't get it at all.
That plentifulness / abundance reduces the price, while rareness increases the price, is hardly new and revolutionary economic concept. So in the context of island populated by black people, one might as well offer 5 black woman (plenty) for 1 white woman (rare) without implying that white people are better (and thus worth more) than the black people.
Once again, it's not offensive in and of itself, it's when viewed in the context of the era it was released in.
I'm not saying the filmmakers set out to make a scene demonstrating that white people are more valuable than black people. I don't think they were.
In Context:
In 1933, one of the only films (maybe only film) to have a Black Character in a fairly large role was a "Native-Chief" shown trading 5 black women for 1 white woman.
In 1933, Denzel and Tyrese weren't around yet.
There were no movies in other theaters showing black characters in a major roles doing ordinary, everyday things, or staring in their own movies the way Will Smith, Denzel, Tyrese, or Dwayne Johnson are now.
So even though it wasn't the filmmakers intent, the message sent was re-enforcing negative stereotypes and predjudiced thinking of the time.
I personally feel that In the modern era, you can have a film like Pirates of the Caribean, or even a scene like the one from King Kong, and it works fine because we also see Denzel Washington starring "The Equalizer".
*BTW, King Kong is one of my favorite films, I'm not knocking it or the people that made it, I'm just using it as an example.
LOL, now we've got a show.
"Please don´t exaggerate, some stereotypes are expected with these types of figures and anybody insulted/outraged by this just needs to get a grip"
Translation: "I'm not offended so you shouldn't be either."
Please keep the discussion to the topic, not each other.
I'd love to see some darker skins for G7 before the Monique and Darius versions come out, so that we *can* see more characters of African descent doing ordinary things. And I do like the cultural products that tend to come with some bundles. But maybe DAZ could change it up? Offer Egyptian stuff with Monique and Darius? Go with something other than faux China/Japan for Lee? I know some PA's have released these separate from the DAZ bundles, and I love them for it. I hope that if we ever get a Native American bundle, it will go beyond Beads, Braids and Buckskins. The mayan character was nice, but we didn't get a corresponding male character, so it doesn't have the same impact. Pueblo cultures would be great.
And/or maybe some of these otherwise generic white characters *could* get cultural/historical products in their bundles. Vikings, Greco-Roman- okay, that one's pretty common outside of the bundles, Celts, Goths (as the historical culture as well as the modern sub-culture), Victoriana/Steampunk, etc.
I've actually been wanting to see more mixed-race characters overall, but especially for men.
When you think about it, Eva 7 IS just what we needed, it got us all talking!
CHEERS!
I´ve been wanting to see more men! : )
Lets hope Michael 7 arrives soon. My wish would be next month but something´s telling me that won´t be the case : (
I just hope they fix the problems that were obvious with M6. Mainly the torso and face. I liked Genesis's face because of it's versatility. Gen 2 male seemed to have some features that were tough to scrub out and alter which made him so hard to work with.
I have a different view about Michael and Victoria I think of them as not being a specific character, but an improved basic character. So you should be able to dial in a figure that looks like anyone, as long as you have the morphs.
I found with M6, he was too distinct of a character facially to be useful as a base like Michael 5 was, And his body often added the weird pecs.
I hope those problem areas are fixed.
Whoa hold on. Drag and drop content into scenes? I'm not getting a mental picture form the words but would be grateful for a little more description. Thanks.
Good points! However, tribal scenes aren't the only way black people are portrayed in classic media, just when the country itself is a theme. Darius also has an outfit in his Starter Bundle (and in-turn, Pro Bundle) which evokes 70's Black Dynamite-era protagonist. But of course, it doesn't really tare away from the idea of cliche, so I digress.
Exactly! This is my other point with topics like this! Those of you who read my earlier posts should recall my story of when I exhibit my stock characters of diverse skin colors. I have a Native boy who offended an acquaintance at the time for "being dressed and acting like a white guy" and I had an Asian-featured fantasy heroine one time that was criticized for being "arbitrarily nationalized and easily misconstruing" for not being used to represent Asian culture. Then when I don't do ethnic at all, I get people who tell me to "add some 'color'" to my casts.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
meanwhile others want african or black characters I can do that using SSS shaders on anyone character.
btw, who did this figure?, I love her!