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I like the base. But then I just about always like the base. Like the poses. But then, I'm not sure that I really need them specifically. Not a single outfit that I'd even bother to install. The freebie I'd install, but probably never use.
I rather like the add-on characters, but I don't know that I'd use them and this time out I don't even that much like the hair. Gia at least came with some attractive hair.
The base, yes. I'll get that. Eventually. No reason to snatch it immediately. But it will probably come home with the PC releases tomorrow.
That's what I'm trying to figure-out myself. Though, I think he was also refering to characters that weren't necessarily iconic bases, which did include merfolk and Aztecs. Either way, I'm not surprised to hear that Olympia sold well, as I even prognosticated before. So, I'm betting money I'm never going to have that, aside from the expected Stephanie, Aiko and Girl, we'll definitely see an Olympia 7, Gianni 7, Lilith 7, Mei Lin 7, Lee 7, Keiko 7, and probably even a Monique 7 & Darius 7 as well. If not, we'll surely see characters of thier direct caliber.
I know the demand for the variety is mostly from us vocal forum users (most people dont visit the forums i know). And that sales probably indicate that churning out more white girls makes money, but I can't imagine it would kill the company to mix it up a bit earlier. I don't have any illusion there will be that many brown people. But one or two earlier than later with supporting morphs would be nice. We don't need to wait for the tribal theme week and we could also have some more nuanced representation.
Oh and I finally found the Mayans! They are those themed people again. So I ignored it whenever it came out. I don't need ancient Mayan stuff. Some modern ethnic people would be nice. I never even clicked on them because I just saw the clothes and didn't even check what the people looked like.
So Daz practice of forcing non-white people into themes hurt potential sales from me at least in this case. 'Cause now that I took a minute to look at the face they don't seem too bad. But they also didn't get the same marketing treatment the "core" lines do, so I kinda glossed over them for that reason as well. I think some time ago they did some Hawaiian or Native American stuff too. The "ethnic" stuff is often packaged differently so I never think the product is the same tier as characters with pro packs.
That tribal stuff is a turn-off for me. And when I see clothes I assume you are selling clothes.
If the figure isn't standing on a grey background in bare minmal clothing I don't even look at em :) That particular presentation means quality and a figure Daz might be proud of. The Native American and Mayan packages look like retro PC bundles, value packs. I'm not talking the quality of the product as I don't have them, I just mean the message I get from the cover image.
I've got multiple threads to reply to on this overall topic but I think the best example of a good pro bundle is with the Michael 5 Pro Bundle: http://www.daz3d.com/michael-5-pro-bundle Thematically, there was a mix of of conventional outfits and fantasy options. Ethnically, there was a black character in the bundle (Benjamin) instead of being restricted to exclusive character presets. Adding onto that, there was a separate caucasian character (James) who had subtle asian features like he might be mixed. Structurally, it's a really good set for what is supposed to be the main male figure since there's a wide variety of options. In fact, the M5 Pro Bundle rather firmly outclasses the V5 Pro Bundle in what it actually offers.
This: https://www.daz3d.com/mayan-adventure-bundle
Characters of color! We want characters of color!!
--MW
Thanks I just found it. Because of the outfits I never even thought about looking at the character or realized they were selling figure/shapes!
I just want males : ( That would cheer me up.
Do bear in mind that the content is made by PAs, and they aren't in the same position to spread their risk across multiple items as DAZ is.
I had the Pro Bundle in my cart, then I took it out, then I put it back in, and then out again...
What is keeping me on the fence is the tendancy for these things to either be free or heavily discounted when the next big model comes out.
The skimp wear didn't help the argument in favor of purchase either.
There is actually a really cool male figure planned for release within the next 6 weeks. He's Genesis 2, not Genesis 3 yet, but really a cool figure.
As for David or Hiro, they just don't sell.
That's good to know :D
A - Agreed. The challenge is that although people say they want ethnic diversity, they don't tend to be willing to spend for it. We felt that adding some cool themes to the bundle might help tem sell better (which it actually did). But, in hind sight we would have done it differently and more tastefully. We own that one.
B- That is mostly a fair statement. When we launch a new figure platform (e.g. Genesis 3). We want to get as many customers to adopt it as we can, and as many artists makign content for it as we can (which we do by getting customers to adopt it). The best way to do this is to get out the figures that sell the best.
Your final point is noted. We'll try to get some in sooner this time.
As for the Mayan (which I thought looked WAY better than she sold, but have to admit that I don't care for the promo art on) was: http://www.daz3d.com/zaniyah-hd-for-genesis-2-female-s
" But, in hind sight we would have done it differently and more tastefully. We own that one."
Thank you, all I was trying to say in that other thread was for a little more sensitivity when it comes to planning large releases for ethnic characters. That recognition is appreciated.
I have to wonder if the promo art hurt it. Similarly, there didn't seem to be any lead in which seemed to help a few other themed bundles, like Wachiwi, in the past.
Daz really needs to learn lessons from two major entertainment forms that has a very close corelation to the 3D art community.
1) American Comic Industry - The comic book world was created largely in the 30/40's and the 60's by many white guys. As a result, the vast majority of characters that have lasted in the comic industry are white males. This frankly is neither good or bad. It's just how it is. As time came moved and society moved, the comic industry responded filling in with minority characters and female characters...but it was slow progress. This can be seen in the big movies and TV shows coming from DC and Marvel. This year, both DC and Marvel are rebooting their lines, with far more emphasis on diversity. These are two companies owned by the biggest corporations on the planet. They're not doing this because of social values---they're corprations. They're doing it because society itself has changed and now there's money in diversity.
2) Role Playing Game Industry - The game industry pretty much started with the idea of different source books for the different subjects of a game. One book for the game master, one for the players. And then sourcebooks to supplement them. And people LOVED source books. This then evolved to a pricey core game book and many lower priced sourcebooks. This model worked well. THEN the idea developed to do many different core books for the same setting, treating what were once supplements as entire games in and of themselves. This worked for a bit..because the fanatics would buy each pricey core book.....but then the fans started noticing that the bulk of what they were getting in each high pay out was the same as what they already had, with just a slight skin change...and what was already a small niche market begin shrinking, shedding customers, and companies went out of business or were bought up and dissolved....and companies that once had tv shows, movies, and high selling video games based on their works...are gone.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it
You beet me to it, lol. I just haven't had 5 minuts to peal the 'New' sticker off the icon for her. Also there are also a few others that have similar skin tone.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/765598/#Comment_765598
So it is not as bad as some make it sound. It's just no good for the newer UDIM mapping, lol.
Oh, and IF, your into dial spinning. Here is ALL the dial settings used for the figure that V4 Natasha texture is on.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/815363/#Comment_815363
@Daz_Steve I do appreciate the responses. And thanks for the clean render.
I totally overlooked that product, too. It never caught my eye. I never heard anyone talk about it. The promo doesn't look like a typical character presentation. When DAZ_Steve said "Mayan" I thought it was probably a form of hyperbole to get the idea across that DAZ is offering diversity. Now come to find out, he was serious about such a product existing!
the promo is not the best for this.
Overlooked this too :)
Skin is too light to be truly Mayan...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Myan+woman&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCAQsARqFQoTCNWn_7uK7cYCFRcoiAodVyAHEA&biw=960&bih=404
Incidentally, has anyone noticed the character in the black-haired promo image for Brady Hair? (top left image among the small thumbnails to the right)
I suspect that's someone's private promo-only model, but if DAZ released her she'd probably sell like hotcakes because -- to my eye -- she looks eerily like a certain celebrity. She's certainly rather lovely.
I'd love to have ethnicity morphs like there were for v4/m4 instead of (or additional to) the 'base characters' for that respective ethnicity...
as for the outfits and 'white chics': I'm not that much in to bikins, lowcut whatevers, dresses and high heels... but I do admit, that most of it has a wow effect, when I look at it. most clothing items I saw here are not only high quality, but also have really good promos. same goes for the characters... I love characters with the little something extra... freckles, a scar, a nice tatto, a blemish here or there and I love to have different skintones to choose from. doesn't mean that characters that don't have these extras or are 'white again' aren't interesting or beautiful. with the nice addons that are in the store they are rather good as a base to add what I want where I want it, too.
and knowing from experience that a) my stuff is following, just a bit later, but I'm not on the clock anyways... and b) there's always another sale ... I'm nearly content :)
ps: I really love that there are so many more characters with brows that are not just black :)
That's Victoria 7 with no makeup on.
Blaze: there are ethnic face morphs for Genesis 1&2
Then pick a darker figure from one of my 'Line ups', and use that if the stock mat is not dark enough, lol. Zaniyah is a G2F figure, and as long as you have the required figure UV, G2F mats work fine on G2F figures.
That brings me to the other point DAZ_Steve said. Zaniyah was released within days of the G3F/V7 launch, and that interrupted Any hope I had of doing a quick, look at her render.
(in a friendly pointing out tone) How do you think a G2F figure will sell at this point, Especially with some on a limited budget, lol. Same goes for EJ Guadalupe. Buried a page back after the V7 launch, I suspect EJ Guadalupe sold equally as bad. Zaniyah perchased at launch. EJ Guadalupe is in my wish-list, and no funds left here to add a purchase.
The same procedure as every time when a new base was released. Shortly after the release of the first main character the next Bundle in the new series arrives. And with Bethany 7 the next candidate waits in the queue. But as long there are buyers for each and every new character, so long will this rotation work. I wish, all this customers would leave that new bundles in the shelf and if they want buy something from DAz, then they should check their wishlists an buy something from the old ones.
BTW: I really see no big differences between Victoria 7 and Eva 7, except the skin colour, but that should be nothing, that one can do with some freebies on the Genesis 3 Base too.
That has nothing to do with the point I was making. They call that character Mayan when in fact it's just another white chick with makeup's that resemble Mayan war painted faces and such.... no offense to the merchant but makes you wonder what fear some folks might have around presenting anything other than white skin? If we are to truly have a racially diverse set of characters here at DAZ then that needs to start at the root of the desire, the merchants!
This actually hurt a few Genesis 1 figures when G2F dropped. Daz needs to plan releases better since it really hurts some products. As far as promos, this set has weird quirks. Zaniyah herself is only shown in the outfit in the set as opposed to anything else neutral. Aithukaya is a Danie & marforno scene + props + poses set but it doesn't directly showcase the poses like some of their older sets here or some of their sets elsewhere. The Princess Zyanya outfit doesn't have any alternate colors yet doesn't promote itself as shader friendly. What should be an awesome mini bundle feels like it's working against itself as far as promotion is concerned.
Seperately, I wonder if more people would have noticed the bundle if it had a promo akin to this (super quick edit job):