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Jonathan 8

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  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 10,305

    Thanks a lot, xyer0.

    I've finally found a joy in creating new characters based on the existing ones.

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 6,328
    Artini said:

    Thanks a lot, xyer0.

    I've finally found a joy in creating new characters based on the existing ones.

    It shows, my friend.

  • alex86firealex86fire Posts: 1,130
    edited March 2020

    Ok, so I decided to render out a version of Jonathan with all of my suit type wardrobe items to see what works and what not.

    Which ones do you think work and which don't?

    Here they are:

     

    Bodyguard suit.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
    Casual Suit.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
    HC Suit.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
    MonteCarlo.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
    Smart and Suave.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
    Smooth Talker.png
    1920 x 1080 - 3M
    Steampunk.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
    Post edited by alex86fire on
  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 4,971
    alex86fire said:

    Ok, so I decided to render out a version of Jonathan with all of my suit type wardrobe items to see what works and what not.

    Which ones do you think work and which don't?

    Here they are:

     

    Unfortunately, I think the pose and framing you've used makes it somewhat difficult to offer an informed opinion. The arm covers the front, and most of those suits have some sort of tie, so we can't see the ties or how they fit. Using a wide display format rather than something like the golden ratio portrait setup (under the general options on the Render tab) means that the image doesn't quite go down far enough to see the knee and feet area.

    That said, nothing is making the Monte Carlo suit look much better.

  • alex86firealex86fire Posts: 1,130
    edited March 2020
    vwrangler said:
    alex86fire said:

    Ok, so I decided to render out a version of Jonathan with all of my suit type wardrobe items to see what works and what not.

    Which ones do you think work and which don't?

    Here they are:

     

    Unfortunately, I think the pose and framing you've used makes it somewhat difficult to offer an informed opinion. The arm covers the front, and most of those suits have some sort of tie, so we can't see the ties or how they fit. Using a wide display format rather than something like the golden ratio portrait setup (under the general options on the Render tab) means that the image doesn't quite go down far enough to see the knee and feet area.

    That said, nothing is making the Monte Carlo suit look much better.

    You're right, I started with something else in mind, then I decided I would like feedback on all my suits but didn't think to change the pose.

    These are the same suits in a better pose and with the suggested portrait setup.

    I just skipped the Monte Carlo, it looked even worse now. It's by far the lowest quality suit I own. And that is saying something considering the Bodyguard suit is in the mix.

     

    Portrait Bodyguard suit.png
    1080 x 1747 - 2M
    Portrait Casual Suit.png
    1080 x 1747 - 2M
    Portrait HC suit Dforced2.png
    1080 x 1747 - 2M
    Portrait Smart and Suave.png
    1080 x 1747 - 2M
    Portrait Smooth Talker.png
    1080 x 1747 - 2M
    Portrait Steampunk.png
    1080 x 1747 - 2M
    Post edited by alex86fire on
  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 4,971
    alex86fire said:
    vwrangler said:
    alex86fire said:

    Ok, so I decided to render out a version of Jonathan with all of my suit type wardrobe items to see what works and what not.

    Which ones do you think work and which don't?

    Here they are:

     

    Unfortunately, I think the pose and framing you've used makes it somewhat difficult to offer an informed opinion. The arm covers the front, and most of those suits have some sort of tie, so we can't see the ties or how they fit. Using a wide display format rather than something like the golden ratio portrait setup (under the general options on the Render tab) means that the image doesn't quite go down far enough to see the knee and feet area.

    That said, nothing is making the Monte Carlo suit look much better.

    You're right, I started with something else in mind, then I decided I would like feedback on all my suits but didn't think to change the pose.

    These are the same suits in a better pose and with the suggested portrait setup.

    I just skipped the Monte Carlo, it looked even worse now. It's by far the lowest quality suit I own. And that is saying something considering the Bodyguard suit is in the mix.

     

    This is much better, thanks!

    You know, apart from the weird bunching up that it did on dForce -- it looks like the right side hem caught on the belt area of the pants -- the best of them looks like it's the H&C suit, by a mile. After that, maybe Smooth Talker, although it's a different sort of outfit. 

    The Casual Suit seaming looks ... oddly put together on the right arm. (Which I never noticed before, and I own it. Then again, I've never had a character with their arms raised in it.) I think it may be an issue with how the arm twist can go a bit weird, though, rather than anything to do with the suit.

    Someone had pointed out elsewhere that the crotch of the Bouncer suit pants was a bit odd, and this is the first time I've really understood what they meant. 

  • memcneil70memcneil70 Posts: 5,296

    That arm on the shirt of the Casual Suit caught my eye also right away. But, I have had that happen on shirts/blouses when I have raised my own arm, or tried to insert them into a jacket and found the sleeve twisted up really bad. On this shirt, it just is emphasized because of the pattern of the fabric. If it had been solid, I bet no one would notice.

  • alex86firealex86fire Posts: 1,130

    Yes, I did tinker a little with the suits when I dForced them (played with the weight maps so thecollar of the suit stays somewhat decent and doesn't get destroyed) but I haven't done a very detailed work.

    For the bodyguard suit, the crotch area is indeed terrible which is a shame because I really like how the middle of the legs lines are so well defined. If I really need it I will invest some time into correcting the mesh and reimporting saving it corrected for future use. I also really like the shoes. One big problem though is that the shirt is not sepparated from the suit... It's one piece of clothing which is just meh to say the least.

    For the casual suit I feel like the material for it looks a little too soft. I'm wondering if maybe I could play around with the simulation settings for the materials to make it stiffer. I also thought at first that the underarm area looked weird but that is how stiches actually go if you raise your arm like that (if you are referring to the stitches). I tried in real life and that's the line that they follow.

    The HC suit really looks professional indeed and with a little more work on the dForce part I think it would look great in any position.

    For the Smooth talker, what do you guys think about the shirt collar? For me it looks kind of weird but I cannot place it and say what exactly looks unnatural.

    The Steampunk suit, while not suitable for all needs looks high quality to me and I don't really see any problems to it if I would use it for the appropriate time period, again what do you guys think?

     

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 7,133
    edited March 2020

    So this is Kai again WITHOUT Jonathan with added bits of Christian, Tristan, Landon, Elios, Tennessee and a few more morphs. I really think Kai should have been the core character! 
     

    D5B457A1-ED8F-4A8D-8671-DC2524C7E480.jpeg
    675 x 923 - 251K
    Post edited by Wonderland on
  • memcneil70memcneil70 Posts: 5,296

    Smooth Talker has that collar that seems to form a upside down wide curve shape I have seen on news programs. If you look at a panel of men, one or two of them will have that style, others will have the traditional more angled / \ style. And a few months ago, one of the PAs was on the forums explaining the difficulties in collar creation and then dForce. 

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 6,328
    edited March 2020

    Collars are obviously difficult, but the fact is that I H Kang and Mada OFTEN get them right. Lapels must be an even bigger problem, but I've also seen them handled almost perfectly (though rarely). Tailored shoulders are rare on men's suits, but not so rare on women's. Since there is a way that it can be done, then the fact that it isn't being done must be due to the lack of probable financial gain.

    However, if someone came out with a thick, tailored men's suit demonstrated on eight Genesis 8 Core figures and 3 or 4 of the body types, they could charge 49.95 list and make their money. For that amount, I'd want separate open and closed jacket meshes, two tie meshes, and a shirt collar with morphing height and tip shape. But that may have to wait until I get Marvelous Designer and do it myself.

    Post edited by xyer0 on
  • alex86firealex86fire Posts: 1,130
    xyer0 said:

    Collars are obviously difficult, but the fact is that I H Kang and Mada OFTEN get them right. Lapels must be an even bigger problem, but I've also seen them handled almost perfectly (though rarely). Tailored shoulders are rare on men's suits, but not so rare on women's. Since there is a way that it can be done, then the fact that it isn't being done must be due to the lack of probable financial gain.

    However, if someone came out with a thick, tailored men's suit demonstrated on eight Genesis 8 Core figures and 3 or 4 of the body types, they could charge 49.95 list and make their money. For that amount, I'd want separate open and closed jacket meshes, two tie meshes, and a shirt collar with morphing height and tip shape. But that may have to wait until I get Marvelous Designer and do it myself.

    That is how I feel as well. I saw a PA explain that somewhere (I think Sickleyield): complicated articles of clothing with multiple items are usually avoided because they take a lot longer to make than the skimpy outfits and they cost almost the same. But if something was really well done, I would pay more for it, no problem.

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 6,328
    alex86fire said:
    xyer0 said:

    Collars are obviously difficult, but the fact is that I H Kang and Mada OFTEN get them right. Lapels must be an even bigger problem, but I've also seen them handled almost perfectly (though rarely). Tailored shoulders are rare on men's suits, but not so rare on women's. Since there is a way that it can be done, then the fact that it isn't being done must be due to the lack of probable financial gain.

    However, if someone came out with a thick, tailored men's suit demonstrated on eight Genesis 8 Core figures and 3 or 4 of the body types, they could charge 49.95 list and make their money. For that amount, I'd want separate open and closed jacket meshes, two tie meshes, and a shirt collar with morphing height and tip shape. But that may have to wait until I get Marvelous Designer and do it myself.

    That is how I feel as well. I saw a PA explain that somewhere (I think Sickleyield): complicated articles of clothing with multiple items are usually avoided because they take a lot longer to make than the skimpy outfits and they cost almost the same. But if something was really well done, I would pay more for it, no problem.

    That makes sense; so, they could do it piecemeal: Men's Morphing Dress Shirt & Dickey/Cuffs w/ Ties [17.95], Men's Tailored Jacket (w/ separate open & closed meshes) [24.95], Men's Dress Pants (w/ HD crotch fold/crease morphs and multiple cuff/hem adjustment morphs) [17.95]. With each subsequent release, give a 15% discount to owners of previously released assets, so when they get bundled together as the pants are released, there won't be any early adopter whinging.

     

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 10,305
    edited March 2020

    Two characters on the same render dressed in

    https://www.daz3d.com/hc-business-suit-for-genesis-8-males

    and

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-hc-dress-shirt-outfit-for-genesis-8-males

    Jona8x2sc02pic05.jpg
    1200 x 1200 - 267K
    Post edited by Artini on
  • memcneil70memcneil70 Posts: 5,296

    @Artini, I have been enjoying all your renders. And the white shirt above is showing that curved collar I have been seeing on TV.

    Mary

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    edited March 2020
    Great renders, Artini.
    Post edited by Asari on
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 10,305

    Thanks a lot, Mary and Asari.

     

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    It seems Jonathan didn't sell too well? Dain, Leroy and Tristan dominated the bestseller lists for some time and Jonathan dropped out quite early?
  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,749
    edited March 2020
    Asari said:
    It seems Jonathan didn't sell too well? Dain, Leroy and Tristan dominated the bestseller lists for some time and Jonathan dropped out quite early?

    March Madness sale is on, all those deals affect the bestsellers list. Besides the very good deals for Dain and Leroy Pro bundles made those very popular.

    I see Jonathan HD add-on on page 1 when sorting the store by "most popular", he may not be in the top best sellers but obviously Jonathan was rather popular too.

    Post edited by Leana on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,211
    Jonathan HD addon was one of those special 70% off deals with a key item. People like me bought it even though we didn't buy Jonathan. I think that is why the addon appears to have sold better than the bundle.
  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,749

    Jonathan character was on page 3 (with 60 items per page). I assumed the add-on was more popular than he was mostly as it could interest people with the character or one if his bundles.

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 7,133
    Leana said:

    Jonathan character was on page 3 (with 60 items per page). I assumed the add-on was more popular than he was mostly as it could interest people with the character or one if his bundles.

    I regret buying the bundle and wish I just got Kai. He's great on his own.

  • alex86firealex86fire Posts: 1,130
    Wonderland said:
    Leana said:

    Jonathan character was on page 3 (with 60 items per page). I assumed the add-on was more popular than he was mostly as it could interest people with the character or one if his bundles.

    I regret buying the bundle and wish I just got Kai. He's great on his own.

    I also like the hairs from the bundle. The tux is terrible. Haven't really tried the other clothes.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 10,305
    edited March 2020

    I like Gordon HD - https://www.daz3d.com/gordon-hd-for-jonathan-8

    and Soldat Outfit - https://www.daz3d.com/soldat-outfit-for-genesis-8-males

    from Jonathan 8 Pro bundle.

    Gordon01pic02.jpg
    1200 x 1400 - 350K
    Post edited by Artini on
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 10,305
    edited March 2020

    Corporate hair - https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-corporate-hair-for-genesis-8-male-and-females

    from the Pro bundle also looks good.

    Gordon03pic01.jpg
    1000 x 1200 - 194K
    Post edited by Artini on
  • MelanieLMelanieL Posts: 7,721
    edited March 2020

    I'm rather partial to Kai myself - and I like the Corporate Hair too.
    Here they are going for that 007-vibe. I used a G3M tuxedo converted to G8M - not perfect but not too bad, I think.

    ETA: I used Mesh Grabber to square off those tuxedo shoulders a bit.

    Kai-Unshaken.jpg
    768 x 1024 - 479K
    Post edited by MelanieL on
  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 7,133
    MelanieL said:

    I'm rather partial to Kai myself - and I like the Corporate Hair too.
    Here they are going for that 007-vibe. I used a G3M tuxedo converted to G8M - not perfect but not too bad, I think.

    ETA: I used Mesh Grabber to square off those tuxedo shoulders a bit.

    I like his expression. Kind of reminds me of John Krasinski from The Office. (The expression not the character...)

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 13,243
    edited March 2020
    Wonderland said:
    Leana said:

    Jonathan character was on page 3 (with 60 items per page). I assumed the add-on was more popular than he was mostly as it could interest people with the character or one if his bundles.

    I regret buying the bundle and wish I just got Kai. He's great on his own.

    Since it is within the 30 day limit you could return the bundle and just purchase Kai by his self. 

    Post edited by Charlie Judge on
  • memcneil70memcneil70 Posts: 5,296

    Tuxedos seem to be a distinct goal for almost every male hunk. Curious I did a Google search https://www.google.com/search?q=tuxedo&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj3hrmPnJboAhU7Ap0JHXUrA2gQsxh6BAgPECw and found many variations on the theme. Shawl and notched collars, length of the jackets, vests or no vests, bow or long ties, shirt details, button colors, whether there is a little hankie in the pocket, trousers seem to be uniformily slim. One thing I note, not a lime green tuxe in the bunch. Thank you little green gods of the 80s!

    I wonder if we took some of IH Kang's suits for men, used shaders and gussied them up, if we could come close?

     

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 10,305
    edited March 2020

    I have edited Kai a little - https://www.daz3d.com/kai-for-jonathan-8

    and dressed him in https://www.daz3d.com/iron-wasp-outfit-for-genesis-8-males

    AegeusHair03pic04.jpg
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    Post edited by Artini on
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