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dForce Hair (as well as strand based hair and the strand based hair editor) in public beta

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  • RS-SRS-S Posts: 72
    RS-S said:

    Read through all this and it's amazing to me that everybody already has something to render and show.

    I have managed to load the program, watched the little video, but , being a tech Moron, can't manage to even change the length the hairs can be. Set the bar as high as it will go, looks like it's going to be long is the distribute tab, but I go to styling and its all short again.

    Is there a good, simple video that explains how to use this program if one (myself) is a complete mush-head when it comes to anything techy?

    This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVJygQqpi10&feature=youtu.be  is way too vague, although it does show you that stomachs and chests confuse some folks and how to make hair stand straight up or lay down, but not much else.

     

    PS: You people are amazing. I understand about .10% of what you all talk about.

    Just bumping this a minute. here's what I'm talking about; (see images)

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  • BlueIreneBlueIrene Posts: 1,318
    edited May 2019

    RS-S - you are looking at hair widths, not hair length. Under the style tab you can see a little comb highlighted in bright orange. Just below the comb are two similar sized icons - the one to the right beneath it (which I think is called 'extend curved lengths') is the one you should be playing with. Hope that helps.

    Post edited by BlueIrene on
  • RS-SRS-S Posts: 72
    edited May 2019
    BlueIrene said:

    RS-S - you are looking at hair widths, not hair length. Under the style tab you can see a little comb highlighted in bright orange. Just below the comb are two similar sized icons - the one to the right beneath it (which I think is called 'extend curved lengths') is the one you should be playing with. Hope that helps.

    Hey BlueIrene: THANKS!!! Helps immensely.

    See; when I used the length thing circled in red, I thought since the hair got taller, that's what was making it longer. 

    BIG HELP!! gonna go try it.

    Post edited by RS-S on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,926
    RS-S said:
    BlueIrene said:

    RS-S - you are looking at hair widths, not hair length. Under the style tab you can see a little comb highlighted in bright orange. Just below the comb are two similar sized icons - the one to the right beneath it (which I think is called 'extend curved lengths') is the one you should be playing with. Hope that helps.

    Hey BlueIrene: THANKS!!! Helps immensely.

    See; when I used the length thing circled in red, I thought since the hair got taller, that's what was making it longer. 

    BIG HELP!! gonna go try it.

    There is also one on the Distribute Tab under Preview called: Length and it goes to 20 Maximum.

    The Girabaldi docuument page linked to by MattyManx earlier in this thread is somewhat helpful and still mostly correct from the parts actually written but it lacks documentation for the Style Guide tab.

  • dougjdougj Posts: 92
    Divamakeup said:

    Thought I'd try my hand at a male hairstyle. The hair needs a bit of work as I didn't notice the poke-through at the ears before rendering. But I like how it come out otherwise. :)

     

    This hair looks good. What width settings did you use?

  • ColinFrenchColinFrench Posts: 635
    Mattymanx said:
    The reason why there are no Garibaldi hair products in the store is because there was no way to make the item so that it could not be re-combed and have a derivative work made from it.

    Do you think the same issue applies here and therefore we're unlikely to see strand-based hair products sold in the Store?

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 5,945
    Divamakeup said:
    Leonides02 said:

     

     

    This honestly looks great. The only part that doesn't is the transition between scalp and hair. We need to figure out how to do those finer "baby hairs" that border the main event.

    Also, are these hairs dforce by default? Can we apply existing shaders to them like Colorwerks, Backlight, and Hair Lustre?

    Thank you! :D I agree about the "transition" - I'm not sure but I think probably a way to make the transition less stark is to make a separate section to add shorter and thinner strands before it hits the main hair portion. I'll have to experiment with that. 

    The hairs aren't dForce - I don't know if there is a way to make the Strand Based Hair dForce or not. 

    We seem to be able to use existing shaders on the Strand Based Hair, but I think the results are probably a bit different than with poly plane hair since it's not verticle poly planes that they're shading.

    I made some tweaks to the hair including reducing the thickness of the hair strands a little bit and fixing the ear poke-through. Here's the updated hair with some shader comparisons. (Click to enlarge.)

    Colorwerks:

     

    Backlight:

     

    The Blended Duel Lobe Hair Shader (I think that cames with the Strand Based Hair DIM download):

     

    I really like the Blended Duel Lobe Hair Shader as it lets you have one color for the roots and a different color for the tips.

    Agreed about the transition and haad already been wondering if it was possible to add more than one 'hair node' (or wahtever it is tehy call it) to a surface. or maybe to add another to a geoshell, and use that for the finer, shrter hairs to smooth the transition.

  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 439

    Here is my test of the fur mimicking textures; https://i.imgur.com/xEQWgH7.png

    Method: Dual-Lobe shader from the dForce demo product. Turn ALL the surfaces white and apply the fur texture to where you can. Glossy at 0.20.

    Quality of life thoughts;

    - Can the model PLEASE stay in place when rotating?

    - In the style tab, having an mirored option for styling would be nice.

    - Also in the style tab, can the hair selection be either a brush or anything other than a rectangle?
     

    - Multiple layers hair, please?

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,886

    For a long time I've been experimenting with fibermesh and... not thrilled. For one thing, any morphs or movement can cause fibermesh to distort annoyingly.

    Strand hair, beautifully, _doesn't do that_.

     

    I'm so stoked.

     

  • RS-SRS-S Posts: 72
    nonesuch00 said:
    RS-S said:
    BlueIrene said:

    RS-S - you are looking at hair widths, not hair length. Under the style tab you can see a little comb highlighted in bright orange. Just below the comb are two similar sized icons - the one to the right beneath it (which I think is called 'extend curved lengths') is the one you should be playing with. Hope that helps.

    Hey BlueIrene: THANKS!!! Helps immensely.

    See; when I used the length thing circled in red, I thought since the hair got taller, that's what was making it longer. 

    BIG HELP!! gonna go try it.

    There is also one on the Distribute Tab under Preview called: Length and it goes to 20 Maximum.

    The Girabaldi docuument page linked to by MattyManx earlier in this thread is somewhat helpful and still mostly correct from the parts actually written but it lacks documentation for the Style Guide tab.

    Thanks, Nonesuch00: the bar in the Distribute section appears to deal with something else. If you look at the images, I used that bar to its max but got nothing in the way of longer hair, As BlueIrene says, it's the other icon below the scissors that makes the hair longer. (tried it: worked great)

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,140
    wolf359 said:

    Hi, first congratulations to the Daz team for this new feature.

    As the spline guide feature and the ability to grow hairs  on selected areas
    seem quite similar to the Hair system we have in Maxon Cinema4D,
    I recomend that  you not grow hair on the entire scalp area at once but instead  build layered sections
    as in this video below.
    Although the tools differ, the principle should theoreticly be the same for the new Daz strand hair system

    That is EXACTLY what I was thinking would make  hair easier to style, at least for me ;)

    Laurie

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,140
    tinkstar_8a2fb05047 said:

    i have the beta build but still no strand hair

    You have to download the dforce starter essentials again because they've been  updated. Have you done this?

    Laurie

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 5,748
    edited May 2019

    Just so ya know....PA's are having fun with this too.......I can finally make all the fur-bearing characters I wanted to for so long!

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  • SorelSorel Posts: 1,390
    Someone on the octane forum tested to see if the new hair system would render in the daz octane plugin and it sure does. :D
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  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,146
    barbult said:

    Still experimenting...I made it curly and a little longer.

    Looks like a gal and her hairstyle that comes to our salon.  Very nicely done there!  

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,735
    edited May 2019

    I'm finding it really hard to get long hair to cover the scalp and reduce strands going in face. I wish there was a lie down and part center/side easy morph. I do like the brushing concept though. I wish we could brush existing hairs... Seems like it will take a lot of work and several different hair strand nodes to get long hair right. Probably good for PAs but too time consuming for individuals. So far I still think painting hair in Photoshop is much easier. But waiting for full instructions...

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  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,136
    RawArt said:

    Just so ya know....PA's are having fun with this too.......I can finally make all the fur-bearing characters I wanted to for so long!

    Oh boy! Good stuff a comin'

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 5,748
    barbult said:
    RawArt said:

    Just so ya know....PA's are having fun with this too.......I can finally make all the fur-bearing characters I wanted to for so long!

     

    Oh boy! Good stuff a comin'

    Thanx...was just commenting to other PA's about how good your hair is looking

     

  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 4,074

    Do you have the .366 build? You also need to download an Essentials package for the Strand hair and perhaps Merge Menus. I recommedn you watch the video referenced at the beginning of the tread. 

    tinkstar_8a2fb05047 said:

    i have the beta build but still no strand hair

     

  • DestinysGardenDestinysGarden Posts: 2,550
    RawArt said:
    barbult said:
    RawArt said:

    Just so ya know....PA's are having fun with this too.......I can finally make all the fur-bearing characters I wanted to for so long!

     

    Oh boy! Good stuff a comin'

    Thanx...was just commenting to other PA's about how good your hair is looking

     

    And we agreed! Really nice work Barbult.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,305
    ColinFrench said:
    Mattymanx said:
    The reason why there are no Garibaldi hair products in the store is because there was no way to make the item so that it could not be re-combed and have a derivative work made from it.

    Do you think the same issue applies here and therefore we're unlikely to see strand-based hair products sold in the Store?

    DAZ are a commercial company, and it is highly unlikley they will have spent a lot of time and money developing this strand hair system if there was no way to sell products based on it. When dForce arrived, so did many clothing products that supported it, allowing DAZ to get a return on their investment.

    If you look at RawArt's comments above, it is clear PA's are already working on products.

    However I can not imagine that products will arrive in the store requiring the purchaser to use the beta version of DS, so I suspect no products will come out until 4.11 becomes the main release. When that happens only DAZ can answer, but I would be surprised if it was soon, given this new system has only just entered beta.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,136

    Thank you all for the positive feedback and tips. I'm having a great time playing with the new toys. I'm eager to see more of what PAs have been making, too.

  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 439

    I mean, I know I'm trying to force the program to do things it REALLY isn't good at (Good fur spread,etc.)

    But the hair I've seen? Props, Barbult.

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,882

    Okay... I know I was going to wait but... a question about body hair (also applies to RawArt's beasties)... how does it work with clothes?  I mean, let's say I want to do a pic of a guy with an open neckline and want him to have chest hair showing.  Or I want to do a Sun Wukong image using a hair preset someone else made.

    Do I have to edit out the areas that are covered and can I?  Or will there be some way to set the hair to not clip through the clothes?

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,735
    edited May 2019

    Lame attempt at the Millenium cat... Only 65% rendered after 1 hour on 1080ti. Not sure how people are saying this renders fast! And we really need instructions! I*s there a way to make the hair uneven? I like the comb but wish there was more control over it, making tufts in some places longer than others. If there is, it's not intuitive at all...

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  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 5,748
    DaWaterRat said:

    Okay... I know I was going to wait but... a question about body hair (also applies to RawArt's beasties)... how does it work with clothes?  I mean, let's say I want to do a pic of a guy with an open neckline and want him to have chest hair showing.  Or I want to do a Sun Wukong image using a hair preset someone else made.

    Do I have to edit out the areas that are covered and can I?  Or will there be some way to set the hair to not clip through the clothes?

    Strand will poke through clothes unless you make masks for it...there is really not much that can be done about that

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634

    It amazes me how quick some of you are and getting awesome results, took me ages to get the hang of Garibaldi. 

    I have had Garibaldi Hair plugin for quite a few years and only made a handful of renders using it. Not because of the plug-in just because it takes time and the last few years time has been short. I am showing these to show what can be done and I have no doubt the reworked internal strand hair should be no different and work well.

    This is all 3DL before Iray came out

    This was my first play and render doing spines back in '13

    https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Brian-377346493

    '14 

    https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Xerr-s-got-a-new-coat-428585798

    The beard and dog

    https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Singing-the-Blues-Take-3-447219377

    Just the birds body (if I had used the clumping I could have gotten and fairly good facsimile of feathers)

    https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Paridise-Lost-446824876

     

    This was Iray, exported out the hair as obj, glad we don't need to do that anymore.

    https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Foraging-611119379

    I haven't had a good look at the new internal UI yet but Gone made some better human hair renders in the old Garibaldi thread. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/17751/garibaldi-express-hair-and-fur-plugin-commercial/p1 It might be some help but don't slap me if the new UI is completely different. :) 

  • BlueIreneBlueIrene Posts: 1,318

    Selecting hairs - the limited square selection is driving me nuts, but I've discovered that you can change the shape of what's selected a bit by making your square selection inside the shape you wish you were able to make, then holding down CTRL and clicking on addiitional invidual curves to add them to your selection. Holding down ALT and clicking on individual curves will remove them from your selection.

    Last night I wrote about how I'd used the colour maps generated by the Strand-based Hair feature to provide the diffuse colour maps for the Iray shader in Studio. I was using a skull cap at the time as I couldn't think how I could shove face and torso maps into the single material zone that the hair gets given in Studio. Congrats to those who immediately figured out that the UVs for these maps aren't overlapping and so they can be combined together in Photoshop to make a single map. It only took me a one-pint mug of black coffee this morning to catch on too :) Just stack the face and torso maps together in Photoshop and blend with the 'screen' mode. Last night's post has been edited accordingly.

    I think Genesis has resigned herself to a few more bad hair days, but I'll get to the nuts and bolts of it all eventually :)

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,882
    edited May 2019
    RawArt said:
    DaWaterRat said:

    Okay... I know I was going to wait but... a question about body hair (also applies to RawArt's beasties)... how does it work with clothes?  I mean, let's say I want to do a pic of a guy with an open neckline and want him to have chest hair showing.  Or I want to do a Sun Wukong image using a hair preset someone else made.

    Do I have to edit out the areas that are covered and can I?  Or will there be some way to set the hair to not clip through the clothes?

    Strand will poke through clothes unless you make masks for it...there is really not much that can be done about that

    Not surprising.  So, then to my first question... how simple is that for someone with crappy Photoshop skills? :D

    And on a similar, but not quite the same ... how about regular hair with hoods and hats?  I mean as long as the answer for that is "no worse than currently" I'm good, but I am curious if it's different.

    Post edited by DaWaterRat on
  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 5,748
    DaWaterRat said:
    RawArt said:
    DaWaterRat said:

    Okay... I know I was going to wait but... a question about body hair (also applies to RawArt's beasties)... how does it work with clothes?  I mean, let's say I want to do a pic of a guy with an open neckline and want him to have chest hair showing.  Or I want to do a Sun Wukong image using a hair preset someone else made.

    Do I have to edit out the areas that are covered and can I?  Or will there be some way to set the hair to not clip through the clothes?

    Strand will poke through clothes unless you make masks for it...there is really not much that can be done about that

    Not surprising.  So, then to my first question... how simple is that for someone with crappy Photoshop skills? :D

    And on a similar, but not quite the same ... how about regular hair with hoods and hats?  I mean as long as the answer for that is "no worse than currently" I'm good, but I am curious if it's different.

    The easiest way I would think is to do one render with the fur turned on and one with the fur off.....layer them in photoshop and erase the parts where the fur is on the clothes.

     

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